pontiac rumors

csharrigan · Post by **csharrigan** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:59 am

I have a couple ecotec's in the family... AT LEAST THEY START WHEN HOT.

Mathias · Post by **Mathias** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:03 am

You could not sell me an ecotec. Dunno about reliability, but a friend had one in a Saturn LW200. Piece of junk. Niggling little problems, had to replace the BCM -- Body Control Module, as every Saturn owner knows -- and to add insult to injury, lousy gas mileage. 26-27 mpg highway consistently. He does the same trip in his '99 Solara 4cyl auto and pulls 31-32 mpg. Not to mention that the Solara, with 100k on the clock, caused less trouble in 3 years than the Saturn in the 3 months he had it. Sold it to the Saturn dealer and was relieved.The reasons I bought my Vibe: GM Card rebate, Toyota internals, domestic brand. I like to buy domestic, it really is a factor. I'm just not willing to buy junk... so if the Vibe goes away, maybe a GM truck, and then off to the Subaru credit card. Not buying any Grand Prix' or Bonnevilles, thank you very much. The arguments about how GM builds really good cars are fairly silly. They don't. They build good pieces of cars, like some engines and most transmissions. Their larger engines and their trucks usually get great gas mileage. They also run forever. The whole package is usually unattractive to those who have experienced good, solid, modern automobiles. -MathiasFormerly '04 Vibe, base, stick'96 Mazda Millenia 150k'83 Datsun pickup 135k

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:47 am

Quote, originally posted by Mathias Â»The arguments about how GM builds really good cars are fairly silly. They don't. -MathiasFormerly '04 Vibe, base, stick'96 Mazda Millenia 150k'83 Datsun pickup 135konly in your opinion. and based on your sig how would you know? you've only owned 1 GM vehicle. and the word formerly means you don't even now. I think all GM cars are great. I've owned 6 vehicles from a 1964 impala ss thru to a 2003 Vibe all GM with 1 datsun pick-up, I never had any problems with any of them except the datsun pickup was a rust busket within 3 years of owning it.GM cars are just as good as any other Vehicle out there its all in the brand name of vehicle you want to buy, just ask ColonelPanic.

Mathias · Post by **Mathias** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:25 am

only in your opinion.And in the market. The wholesale value of a 5-year-old Malibu is about half of that of a CamCord. Similar stickers when new. The used-car market has a way of reflecting quality. and based on your sig how would you know? you've only owned 1 GM vehicle. and the word formerly means you don't even now.2004 Vibe [bought new]1999 Prizm -- super quality1998 Prizm [bought new]1989 Pontiac LeMans -- junky little car, but worked well for us1983 Malibu -- good car1980 Chevy G10 Van -- piece of junk; still my favorite car everAnd a few Fords and imports as well. I don't know much but I know from cars...I think all GM cars are great'01 Malibu? Pontiac Grand Am? S10 pickup? Astro van? Saturn Ion? Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera? Those are "great"? How about you go and drive a '99 Accord 4cyl followed by a '99 Chevy of your choice. That should provide a meaningful experience.-Mathias

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:16 am

Sorry, I just hate to see GM bashing all the time. Its my job your blasting. and American job at that. I don't see anyone here going to Detroit to tell them how to fix GM.lazyboy coaches and backseat driverssorry for blowing up.

Mathias · Post by **Mathias** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:26 am

Oh no, not at all... I'm glad we're having this discussion. And I'm not "blasting" anything, I'm sharing my observations. And I'd like to think they're informed observations.Do you think I want to see GM die? I live in East Lansing; I was here when Oldsmobile left. It was no fun then, and it ain't much fun now. GM Management have driven market share from over 60% to under 20% (retail market) in 40 years... and they've been patting themselves on the back and talking about "turnaround" the whole time.In order to fix what's broken, one has to first take stock of what "is". And what "is", to my mind, is a company that is competitive in large trucks, competent in many segments of automotive technology, and ten years behind the competition in putting together a modern, four-cylinder family car. There are signs of life in design at least -- Solstice, G6, the new Cadillac look. But GM is so behind the eightball with legacy costs and image problems that I don't see how they can ever catch up to the market leaders... what I see is still lots of people buying "American" on principle... but once they've bought one Toyota, they just don't come back.If they're gonna kill Pontiac, they gotta do it sooner rather than later. I'll buy one more Vibe; just waiting for my GM Card to recharge...-Mathias

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:42 am

Quote, originally posted by Mathias Â» But GM is so behind the eightball with legacy costs GM has everyone so brainwashed on legacy cost....but yet GM offers all employees 27 and up (26 years and up for delphi) to retire early, that means pay them $$$$$ not to work.but wait! GM does have billions to pay bonuses to executives.as far as the future, wait till E85 doesn't pan out and GM is ahead of everyone else with a hydrogen Vehicle. sorry I got off topic.

binary · Post by **binary** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:05 am

Quote, originally posted by Mathias Â»only in your opinion.And in the market. The wholesale value of a 5-year-old Malibu is about half of that of a CamCord. Similar stickers when new. The used-car market has a way of reflecting quality.Maybe that's true - but a matrix and vibe, same year, same sticker... different used car prices. There's a supply and demand factor, and a market perception of quality.Similar to the vibe sales dropping when advertising drops... people aren't aware of its existence, so they don't test drive them.You have a stack of auto-rags boasting anything toyota as bulletproof - you're bound to get some people on board with your views - no matter how biased they are. Maybe I'm another brainwashed --- Buying a toyota drive train was a factor, but I live in a GM town and feel a certain pride in supporting an American economy. Buying the vibe was a good was to maintain a reliable, inexpensive (purchase price and TCO), and fun car to own... all while making sure I supported an american company.I'm not a flag waving lunatic who's going to egg every foreign car in the neigborhood... and I've owned some lemons from all three US manufacturers. But I've also seen my share of problematic imports too. There is no perfect auto manufacturer... they all make a junk car once in a while. Now weather those junkers make it to the auto-rags or a vocal voice on the Internet - is just luck. Nobody here will argue that CP had a rolling ****box of a vibe... no matter how good he took care of it - it was crap and was destined to nickel and dime him to trade in on another car. Nobody should have to deal with that - but thankfully many other vibes out there are built much better. CP's Vibe just didn't get the same mojo as mine - and that sucks. Moral of the story? Import doesn't equal perfect or better than domestic...

isaaclud · Post by **isaaclud** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:58 pm

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 Â»I don't see anyone here going to Detroit to tell them how to fix GM.whoa wait a minute.....how should we go about doing that?AAAAAAAAANDI would LOVE to give GM an hour of my time and TELL THEM MYfeelings on that area! But really, GM white-collar staff must be intelligent Americans w/ some kind of college degree, WHY CANTGM FIX GM? I mean, the buying public sees through that badge-engineering crap....who is gonna buy the G5? huh? I'll tell you...people who would have bought either the Cobalt or Ion....which are the same cars.....GM shouldnt STILL be doing thatbut we shouldnt be telling GM how to fix itself anyway.....we do in a way by buying vehicles from other manufacturers....but really, what indicates GM gives a **** about our opinion?they'll do whatever they want....which is usually not-so-smartCASE IN POINTGTO: people said dont re-badge a monaro......but they didand the sales have sucked since day one, in 5 years you will onlysee these things in trailer parks w/ confederate flags filling up the rear window.....BOTTOM LINE, good notion, but never gonna happenBTW: I'm not attacking you here scherry....I'm LOVIN this convo

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:05 am

Yes, we get it already... We should all go out and buy nothing but Toyotas from now on 'cause they can do no wrong and they're the bestest, bestest car company ever! They can do no wrong! Toyota has never suffered from poor products or poor marketing! Everything else is a piece of ****!

isaaclud · Post by **isaaclud** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:02 am

^ calm down brotherwho is the cat who JUST BOUGHT A GM product?Me! I have a right and expectation to talkabout how I would like to see GM succeed...(see my other thread in OFF-TOPIC)I am a client of GM, I see some things I dont like.I am discussing it with other GM clients.....why are you taking a personal offense to this?

millster · Post by **millster** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:05 am

Before this gets (further) out of hand, let's drop the hostility from ALL sides. Thank you!

jake75 · Post by **jake75** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:17 am

Compared to FORD, the GM bunch is looking downright "brilliant". I can't think of a thing in the Ford Motor lineup that would interest me. Not all that long ago the value of my Ford stock would have purchased a top of the line Linclon. Today it wouldn't even buy a Focus!

isaaclud · Post by **isaaclud** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:30 am

^ i dont know man, FORD got some hot things they can do orare doing right now......1.) a.) the FUSION is a hit, people are BUYING that thing b.) all they would need to do for a kick-(removed) SVT FUSION would need to be dropping the MAZDASPEED 6 internals into the Fusion (same platform) and BOOM you got a AWD 280hp turbo FUSION....no development costs2.) they dropped the minivan game....went 7 passenger crossover SMART in my opinion, and wait til the 3.5 goes into the FREESTYLE instead of that duratec lump! then sales of that will go up3.) all the Mustang packages/treatments you get are overwhelming! even the factory POWER PACKS....I think people will start picking up on that4.) Lincoln MKX / or MXK...thats a hot little SUV5.) FORD is letting VOLVO get hot, the C30, the XC90 w/ a yamaha V8, all good stuff there6.) They refused to let SVT die....THAT WAS IMPORTANT IN MY BOOK you will see more SVT stuff in the futureso I'm looking at FORD's actions carefully, although I'm not a FORDfan I respect some of the moves they have made

denvette78 · Post by **denvette78** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:02 pm

I had a ecotech in my '02 Grand Am and i was very happy with it. Good gas millage, great power. The Caliber is nice but Dodge need to learn how to build interior, too much cheap plastic. And they don't make real good gas millage.

binary · Post by **binary** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:37 am

That's true - Ford's got some good things that gets people in the door. A few people in my family own freestyles and love them.However, GM has some great things too - they just need to start marketing them to get them out there in the public's eye. All I see on TV are truck and SUV comercials - trying to tout 17 MPG as a grand improvement and FlexFuel as an excuse to burn 12mpg... because it's corn.Today Low MPG = High sales, Toyota knows this... On the flip side... Maybe GM only wants customers that can make $10-15k/sale on... like Denalis and Escalades.If you sell one SUV instead of 4 or 5 cars and make the same profit... you only have one vehicle to warranty instead of 4-5.So why sell an Ion or Cobalt?And Chrysler? It's going to take a decade of good drivetrains and interiors to make me even think of buying something from Dr. Z.(I like the comercials though... they made me laugh, but got old after about the 10th time in an hour I seen one...)

Mathias · Post by **Mathias** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:03 am

As to the question of whether or not there will be a next-generation Vibe and/or Matrix:Edmunds says in their "Future Vehicles" section that the Corolla redesign has been postponed to 2008 -- as in "Spring of 2008", therefore probably a 2009 model.That means the Corolla will soldier on for another year, and so will the Vibe, with a little luck. It also means that it's understandable that there hasn't been any noise regarding a redesign.As I've said before, I'll be happy to buy another Vibe, I just ain't in a hurry.And BTW, there are no -- as in "0" -- rebates offered on the 2007 Vibe. As in, "you have to pay more for a Pontiac than for the similar Toyota". Am I the only one who thinks that's nuts? Same with the Colorado.Is anybody buying, or is the inventory that depleted? I'd love to hear from an insider who knows what's going on at GM...-Mathias

jake75 · Post by **jake75** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:32 am

GM has not been able to repeal the laws of economics - supply and demand and all that. I bought my '03 Vibe in Jan. 2003 at about $5,000 off MSRP. [$2,000 rebate, a $600 GM Card rebate balance upped to $2,003 as part of a special promotion, and a $1,000 dealer discount.] Without that added $4,003 incentive there would have been a lot other cars that looked better. Actually - I wasn't even in the market for a new car - that was just too good of a deal to pass up. So - I predict that soon you will be seeing rebates on the 2007 Vibes, especially now that gas prices have moderated and consumers are not buying higher mpg cars at any cost..

Mathias · Post by **Mathias** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:04 am

Another sign of life: The NUMMI agreement will be extended, wikth both GM and Toyota investing equal amounts at NUMMI to keep it competitive. Found a short article in the business section of the local paper. This is good news.So long as GM has at least one Toyota in their programs, I'm keeping my GM Blue Card. -Mathias

kostby · Post by **kostby** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:44 pm

Here are two links to news items about the Fremont NUMMI assembly plant that mathias mentioned:-->http://www.insidebayarea.com/business/c ... .d...ews03

NascarXprt · Post by **NascarXprt** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:26 am

does anybody have any idea when they will start showing or talking about the 08 VIbe/ Matrix?

jake75 · Post by **jake75** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:07 am

1st article said $85 mil upgrade; 2nd article said 410,00 cars a year production; that's only about $207 per car. I did not know production at that plant was that high.I've always taken the rumors about GM and that plant with two grains of salt. It seems to be working well for both Toyota and GM. GM must be making money on some of the Corollas that are built there.

montreal · Post by **montreal** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:31 am

joatmon,I sent you a PM or what they call here an instant message.I hope you got it and can answer.ThanksMontreal

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:09 pm

Quote, originally posted by montreal Â»joatmon,I sent you a PM or what they call here an instant message.I hope you got it and can answer.ThanksMontrealI did answer.For the rest of you, some of us have had a problem with idle hunting when cold ( http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=15929 ) montreal is trying to get some resolution, and was collecting data for his case-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-now back to pontiac rumors, in http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=25418 Jeremy96gase posted a link to some spy shots of the 2008 Vibe, so that tends to indicate that Pontiac does not plan to drop the Vibe anytime soon, although it will be interesting to see what mechanical changes they implement

EH2005 · Post by **EH2005** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:51 pm

Looks like The Car Connection has spy photos of the 2008 Vibe today!http://www.thecarconnection.co....html

jake75 · Post by **jake75** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:00 am

On the market since January 2001 - really?So while it's possible this is a new Toyota Matrix undercover, we're tending toward identifying this vehicle as the next Pontiac Vibe. The current Vibe has been on the market since January of 2001, and has had only minor styling updates since then. The word in Detroit is that a new Vibe will be released for the 2008 model year.While similar in size to the current Pontiac Vibe, the new model has a much more slanted windshield as well as a more slanted rear window. The beltline is higher, resulting in shorter side windows. A peek inside through the side window gives a glimpse of chrome-ringed instrument gages, round A/C vent outlets, and a silver-painted area just to the right of the instrument cluster, all carry-over design elements of the current Vibe. The slanted antenna mounted in the center of the roof near the rear, plus the small XM antenna mounted toward the rear but on the passenger side, are similar to that used in the current Vibe.The one prototype on steel wheels appears to be a standard model, while the other car has sporty alloy wheels with low-profile tires, and aerodynamic lower body sill extensions with a scoop just in front of the rear wheels, indicating that this could be a high-performance sports model.

silvrhawk7 · Post by **silvrhawk7** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:22 pm

Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»GM needs to keep the Vibe, but use a powertrain from their own suppliers, and build it in their own factory, to get the most benefit of including it in their product line. In Loyalty ways i do agree with you on that, however with personal experience, one of the many reasons i bought the vibe was because it has the toyota motor and tranny in it. The last GM car i purchased only lasted me 5 years until it was going to cost me $2000 to rebuild the transmission. I could have bought the matrix, however i ended up getting a better deal on the GM side for this vehicle, and i like the look of the vibe more than i do of the matrix. i just wish GM would take a good look at the mechanical end of their vehicles, they may learn something from the competition.Just so everyone knows, I am only speaking of personal opinion and experience.

TJinPgh · Post by **TJinPgh** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:25 pm

If they could go with the drive trains they used from the M platforms from the early to mid 90s (Grand Am, Beretta, Corsica, Skylark, etc) it might work out well.The 3.1 V6s were pretty reliable other than the occasional head gasket failure. My 95 Beretta (base 3.1) ran awesome until the aforementioned gasket issue. If I'd known about internet auto forums three or four years ago when it went bad, I could have saved myself a lot of money and headache getting it fixed.The transmission (4sp auto) has been exceptionally reliable. And got somewhere around 30mpg on the highway.The Quad4 from around that time wasn't bad either.The only thing that keeps that car from being on the road at the moment are some front end suspension issues that need to be fixed.Unfortunately, they've gone downhill quite a bit since. The Grand Am from the late 90s on weren't nearly as reliable, despite being based on the same basic design.

CCD · Post by **CCD** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:07 pm

Hi all, my first post. Those pics sure do not excite me. More slanted windshield? More slanted hatch? I think I am glad I am getting mine before these changes,

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:20 pm

Quote, originally posted by silvrhawk7 Â»In Loyalty ways i do agree with you on that, however with personal experience, one of the many reasons i bought the vibe was because it has the toyota motor and tranny in it. The last GM car i purchased only lasted me 5 years until it was going to cost me $2000 to rebuild the transmission. I could have bought the matrix, however i ended up getting a better deal on the GM side for this vehicle, and i like the look of the vibe more than i do of the matrix. i just wish GM would take a good look at the mechanical end of their vehicles, they may learn something from the competition.Just so everyone knows, I am only speaking of personal opinion and experience.My experience? The only "toyota" I ever owned - my Vibe - was traded in at less than 70k and was far from running like a car at that mileage should have been.From this point forward, I'll be sure to stick with the GM powertrains that have never let me down.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:25 pm

my ultra reliable toyota transmission lasted 75K milesIf Pontiac goes to exclusively performance cars, this will be the last one I buy, at this point I think that high MPG is more important than high HP

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:40 pm

I was really singing the praises of a bulletproof Toyota powertrain that one morning I had it floored and hitting the rev limiter and it would never shift out of first gear. $4,000+ in parts plus labor on top of that out of GM's pocket to replace a transmission at 60K that everyone on the internet says should go a zillion miles. It was my first Toyota, it will be my last. Pity my only Pontiac I've owned was this one. I'm not done with the brand though... Well, maybe I am but Kari's not. I'd love to get her a G6 before Pontiac goes RWD and gas guzzling.

KNINE · Post by **KNINE** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:43 pm

Quote, originally posted by TJinPgh Â»The 3.1 V6s were pretty reliable other than the occasional head gasket failure. My 95 Beretta (base 3.1) ran awesome until the aforementioned gasket issue. I had the 3.1 in my '95 Monte, and it had 289,000 miles when I traded it. It still ran like a top. I put 100 miles a day on it. That was a great engine.I drove a Z24 Cavalier one time and was pretty impressed with the 4 banger in that car. I don't know how reliable those engines were, though.

VforVIBE · Post by **VforVIBE** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:38 pm

Quote, originally posted by CCD Â»Hi all, my first post. Those pics sure do not excite me. More slanted windshield? More slanted hatch? I think I am glad I am getting mine before these changes,Na, ya never know, when you see the concept car, you just might like it.BTW, Welcome to GenVibe!North Florida Meet!!

TJinPgh · Post by **TJinPgh** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:08 am

Quote, originally posted by K-NINE Â»I drove a Z24 Cavalier one time and was pretty impressed with the 4 banger in that car. I don't know how reliable those engines were, though.If you mean the early 90s Cavies (pre 95 redo) then the 4 cylinders weren't all that bad at all. Same quad 4 that was used in the Beretta and Grand Am those years, I think. Same design, anyway.If you could find an RS with a quad 4 and a 5sp, that was a fairly sweet combination for peppiness and economy. Naturally, the V6 had better low end pickup.The cavies go an earned reputation as a disposable car from 95 on, though.I'm not sold on the Cobalt either, unless you want to spend a lot of money in aftermarket parts (and most car buyers don't).

CCD · Post by **CCD** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:33 am

Well, I bought a 93 F-150 new and hated the 97 that came out to replace that body style. I had an 87 CRX and loved what they did to it the next year. So...I have an open mind there. I also like the Matrix better than the Vibe when they first came out. Now I really have had a change of heart. The only way I would like my Vibe better is bigger and better mpg. Two things that equally oppose each other. My wish list for the 08 is same 16" alloys I have, sunroof I have now, more power ports for the rear, monotone paint that I have, a second sunroof from the Sienna, 50mpg, same NUMMI reliability and the cargo room of an Excursion. That should be easy right? (removed)

TJinPgh · Post by **TJinPgh** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:42 pm

Quote, originally posted by CCD Â»Well, I bought a 93 F-150 new and hated the 97 that came out to replace that body style. I had an 87 CRX and loved what they did to it the next year. So...I have an open mind there. I also like the Matrix better than the Vibe when they first came out. Now I really have had a change of heart. The only way I would like my Vibe better is bigger and better mpg. Two things that equally oppose each other. My wish list for the 08 is same 16" alloys I have, sunroof I have now, more power ports for the rear, monotone paint that I have, a second sunroof from the Sienna, 50mpg, same NUMMI reliability and the cargo room of an Excursion. That should be easy right? LMAOWell, I can't speak to 50mpg w/o going hybrid. However, I have to admit that I fail to understand why two cars with the same drive train (Corolla & Vibe/Matrix) get such drastically different fuel economy. Yes, I realize the Vibe is heavier. But, with only about 150 pounds difference between the two, that hardly accounts for it all.I could strip down my vibe and remove 150 pounds, and I seriously doubt it would get 38-41 mpg like the Corolla. I don't know that I believe that a hatchback is that much less efficient than a sedan with respect to aerodynamics. If it were, wouldn't Mazda have chosen the Mazda3 sedan to make the Mazdaspeed edition instead of the HB?I'd heard talk a while back that the new Vibe/Matrix could come with a Camry 2.4 as an option. I can only imagine how bad fuel economy will be with that.

GrayFox · Post by **GrayFox** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:37 pm

Quote, originally posted by TJinPgh Â»could come with a Camry 2.4 as an option.screw that! give us the 3.5 268hp V6 haha

michaelgt · Post by **michaelgt** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:44 pm

A key difference in the gas mileage is the tires/wheels, and the engine control module. I am guessing that the Corolla that gets 40 has narrow 15 inch tires/wheels, and is slower because the engine is optimized for fuel economy instead of acceleration.

EH2005 · Post by **EH2005** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:32 am

Quote, originally posted by TJinPgh Â»If you mean the early 90s Cavies (pre 95 redo) then the 4 cylinders weren't all that bad at all. Same quad 4 that was used in the Beretta and Grand Am those years, I think. Same design, anyway. They didn't use the Quad 4. They used the Iron Duke as the base (and only) 4 and had the 3.1 V6 as an option.Quote, originally posted by TJinPgh Â»If you could find an RS with a quad 4 and a 5sp, that was a fairly sweet combination for peppiness and economy. Naturally, the V6 had better low end pickup. There weren't any Quad 4s in the RS models, but you could get the optional 3.1 V6. Quote, originally posted by TJinPgh Â»The cavies go an earned reputation as a disposable car from 95 on, though.I don't think this is true. I had a 1997 LS Convertible automatic and a 2000 Z24 5-speed, both with the 2.4 Twin Cam (evolution of the Quad 4) and never had a lick of trouble with either.Quote, originally posted by TJinPgh Â»I'm not sold on the Cobalt either, unless you want to spend a lot of money in aftermarket parts (and most car buyers don't).I've got a 2006 Cobalt LS (the cheapest of the cheapie cheapos - manual windows and wheelcovers) as my daily driver (the Vibe is my wife's ) and it's a perfectly acceptable car for the money. The Ecotec has good pickup (only ten horses less than the Twin Cam in my Z24) and gets 24 city.

mfivvibe · Post by **mfivvibe** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:24 am

Wat about this. Is this going to be Vibe 2008. lol. Check this out.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:52 am

BODY DOUBLE

Attached files

ajflan · Post by **ajflan** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:54 am

What a striking resemblance!

mfivvibe · Post by **mfivvibe** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:00 am

Refer to this tread that i post, Toyota Auris to be exact but nice interior with girlish (removed) lolGeneration Vibe Discussion Forums Â» Latest News Â» Pontiac Vibe 2008 - Pics

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:10 am

Quote, originally posted by mfivvibe Â»Wat about this. Is this going to be Vibe 2008. lol. Check this out.without any info on who did the picture, can't say I hope not, I think it looks worse than the current design

mfivvibe · Post by **mfivvibe** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:14 am

No matter what, I love my 2003 Voltz very much.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Thu May 24, 2007 9:13 pm

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/...=newsQuote Â»GM's Pontiac Sales to Shrink 40% as Models Are Cut (Update3)By Greg BensingerMay 24 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp.'s Pontiac division, once the third largest-selling car brand in the U.S., may see domestic sales drop as much as 40 percent as it shrinks its model lineup and pares sales to rental-car companies.Pontiac's U.S. sales could fall to 250,000 a year from 410,229 in 2006, said Jim Bunnell, who took over as chief of GM's Buick-Pontiac-GMC divisions on May 11. As many as four Pontiac models may be eliminated to focus the brand's image, said Troy Clarke, GM's North American president.Annual sales of ``250,000 or so, that seems like a natural number,'' Bunnell said in an interview yesterday in St. Louis. He didn't say when that mark may be reached.GM is working to better define its eight U.S. brands as sales continue to fall. The largest U.S. automaker is trimming its vehicle selection and combining Pontiac, GMC and Buick dealerships to more closely associate the brands.``GM needed to make Pontiac smaller -- it was always trying to be everything to everyone,'' said Erich Merkle, an auto analyst at IRN Inc., a consulting firm in Grand Rapids, Michigan. ``People want to buy a car because it clearly says something.''Pontiac hasn't posted an annual sales gain since 1999, tied for the longest streak of any automobile brand sold in the U.S. Only Isuzu Motors Ltd., which sold 8,614 vehicles in the U.S. last year, matched that mark. The division's sales declined 20 percent this year, outpacing GM's overall drop of 6.5 percent.11th PlaceThrough April, Pontiac was No. 11 in sales among all brands in the U.S., behind Hyundai and ahead of Mazda, according to Automotive News, a trade publication.Certain models such as the Solstice and G6 are central to the brand's image, though ``we want to get to three to four really great Pontiacs,'' Clarke said. Only the G6 has increased sales this year through April, according to Automotive News.Currently, Pontiac has seven models, including sedan, coupe and convertible versions of the G6, according to GM's Web site.GM pursued a similar strategy with its Buick division, paring its product line to three vehicles for the 2008 model year, from as many as seven several years ago. Buick sales are down 31 percent this year, more than any other GM brand.Pontiac reached its sales peak at 896,980 in 1978, according to Automotive News. That was the year GM sold 9.55 million vehicles worldwide, the highest ever.Bunnell said Pontiac has made ``pretty significant'' cuts in its sales to rental-car companies, which are generally priced at a discount, particularly for its Grand Prix sedan.

GrayFox · Post by **GrayFox** » Fri May 25, 2007 12:20 am

Ok so we can say good-bye to the Torrent, Vibe, and possibly the G5, too That would leave the G6 (3 versions so it counts as 3 models? )Solstice and G8.... that's 5 models

ajflan · Post by **ajflan** » Fri May 25, 2007 12:59 am

Boo

KNINE · Post by **KNINE** » Fri May 25, 2007 1:09 am

So with ever rising gas prices, they're going to cut their most practical and fuel efficient vehicle? You would think that they'd take advantage of Toyota's already existing hybrid technology and expand the Vibe lineup.