Toyota Quality

[scherry2]

TOKYO -- Toyota Motor Corp. said Tuesday it was recalling about 420,000 vehicles globally, including some Echo and Prius models sold in the United States, because of a faulty engine part.The faulty part is the latest in a string of problems requiring recalls by Toyota, raising doubts over whether the automaker can maintain its standards amid booming sales.In the United States, 24,490 cars sold under the name Echo and Yaris, as well as 8,476 Prius vehicles are affected by the recall, said Toyota spokeswoman Shiori Hashimoto.The recall affects 268,570 vehicles sold in Japan across 12 models manufactured in 2001, including Corollas, the compact cars Vitz and Platz and the hybrid Prius, the company said in a statement submitted to Japan's Transport Ministry.A faulty engine part could lead to an oil leak in the engine and cause it to stop, the statement said. There have been no accidents blamed on the fault, Toyota said.The recall affects about 150,000 cars sold outside Japan, mainly in the United States and Canada, Hashimoto said. These autos were also manufactured in 2001.Also Tuesday, Toyota subsidiary Hino Motors Ltd. recalled 1,913 trucks across five 2004-05 models, also because of engine problems.Hino said defective engine brackets could break under pressure, causing the trucks' engines to stall. The recall affects Hino's Dutro model, as well as Dyna and Toyoace trucks manufactured by Hino and sold under the Toyota brand.The engines of an additional 10,310 Toyota and Hino trucks manufactured from 2003 to 2005 may have faulty turbine blades, the two companies said.The trucks will be repaired free, though the fault isn't serious enough to meet Japan's recall standards, Hashimoto said.The recalls come after police investigated three Toyota officials on suspicion of professional negligence in allegedly shirking recalls for eight years and not fixing a defect that may have caused an accident.Five people were injured in a crash in 2004 in southern Japan when steering failed in a 1993 Toyota Hilux Surf sport-utility vehicle, causing it to swing out of control. Toyota had received five reports of problems with the steering by 1996, but no recall was made until 2004, the company said.The investigation was another embarrassment for Toyota, whose once impeccable image has been tarnished by a number of recalls.Earlier this month, the company recalled 367,500 Toyota and Lexus sport-utility vehicles in the United States because a piece in the front console area could come loose and interfere with the gas pedal.Hmm it seems Toyota is picking up some bad habits. and just like GM it will only get worse because of the word Greed.

[Atomb]

actually, i see a good habit...they're admitting to a problem! ...unlike some other manufacturers.

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by Atomb »actually, i see a good habit...they're admitting to a problem! you must have missed this paragraph:The recalls come after police investigated three Toyota officials on suspicion of professional negligence in allegedly shirking recalls for eight years and not fixing a defect that may have caused an accident.

[Atomb]

sorry....i admit, i skimmed. (at work and quickly going through stuff!)

[Vibe_dude]

Ya for years Toyota has "skipped" doing recalls.it does not want to look like Gm or ford......but with them now trying to be #1 they are making so many more autos that probs will creep in........i mean Gm makes soooooooo many cars a year that if 5 % of the have defects thats a lot of cars....now its Toytoas time to stumble under the wieght of trying to be #1....they will not do as half as good as GM has done for almost 20 years.

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 »Hmm it seems Toyota is picking up some bad habits. How dare you impugn the honor of the sacred one! Sacrilege! Heresy!

[micbarric]

Just goes to show us that Toyota is as human as everybody else. But I don't think they will let things slip too far and lose their standing as one of the better manufacturers.Here is another "bad news" article. I hope Toyota execs are aware of the problems. Avalon shows dent in Toyota quality; fixes sought for 'problematic vehicle' By MARK RECHTIN | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS 7:57 am, May 1, 2006 LOS ANGELES -- Alan Seider has owned 11 Toyotas since 1982, but his 2006 Avalon likely will be his last. He says quality glitches have bedeviled his Toyota sedan, which he has driven less than 6,000 miles since he bought it last July. His dealer could not solve the car's problems. Toyota headquarters stonewalled his appeals, he says."There have been significant throttle control and transmission hesitation issues," says Seider, 45, a computer consultant from Roswell, Ga. "I've isolated 15 different rattles in the body work." Seider is far from alone. Internet chat rooms such as Edmunds.com Town Hall are littered with complaints from Toyota loyalists about the redesigned Avalon, which went on sale in February 2005. The Avalon's launch problems point to a larger issue. To meet demand, Toyota has added factories in North America and thousands of new employees. Executives are worried that Toyota's rapid growth may dilute its quality standards.Toyota and Lexus divisions still exceed industry averages in various studies that measure quality. Toyota predicts that the Avalon will score well in J.D. Power and Associates' Initial Quality Study, to be released in June.But the quality gap is closing. And Toyota recalls have spiked in the last two years. Every production line produces its share of lemons. But Toyota already has issued a string of technical service bulletins to dealers to fix Avalons on the road. Changes are being made on the assembly line. Toyota representatives acknowledge there are some teething problems, but decline to call the Avalon a problem car.The Avalon is the Toyota brand's most-expensive car, starting at $27,355 including destination charges. The redesigned 2005 model was embraced by consumers; Toyota sold 95,318 Avalons last year in the United States, up from 36,460 in 2004. Avalon sales peaked in 2000 at 104,078 units. It is assembled at Toyota's Georgetown, Ky., plant, alongside the Camry and Camry Solara.It's a car-buying axiom that one should never buy a car in its first year of production, before the bugs are worked out. But in recent years Toyota and Honda largely disproved that old saw, delivering nearly bulletproof vehicles from Job 1. Now the Avalon redesign is showing that even mighty Toyota can slip up.Kevin Clingenpeel, a 37-year-old insurance litigator from Fort Mill, S.C., loved his Avalon for the first 2,000 miles. Then the transmission shifts became erratic, especially in cold weather. The engine developed a persistent knock, which could not be cured by changing grades of gasoline or by using a fuel-injector cleaner."I pulled up next to a Ford F-350, and I could hear my valve train clicking louder than his diesel," said Clingenpeel, whose Avalon is his family's third Toyota. Clingenpeel says his dealer gave the car "a wink and a nod" when he brought it in three times for repairs. Clingenpeel then appealed to Toyota headquarters to send out a district service manager. Toyota refused. Now Clingenpeel is looking to sell the car."It's sad because there's a nice car hiding behind all this," Clingenpeel said. "But this is not up to snuff from what I would consider from Toyota."The Avalon's problems have drawn notice from Consumer Reports magazine, which has for years given the Avalon high marks.While still giving the 2005 Avalon its highest scores in most categories, the magazine's overall quality rating for the car was average because the Avalon scored below the Buick LaCrosse, Kia Amanti, Ford Five Hundred and Mercury Montego. Anita Lam, data program manager for Consumer Reports' auto test center, said problems with the Avalon cropped up in steering, suspension and body integrity."These are first-year teething problems. We anticipate the second model year will be much better," Lam said.Toyota spokesman John Hanson called the Consumer Reports ratings "the sum of small irritations more than anything else." But Hanson acknowledged that Toyota has been concerned with the initial wave of quality problems for the car. Toyota's priority has been to find and remedy problems, get the fixes to the production line, and issue technical service bulletins so dealers can fix the faults on vehicles already on the road."The Avalon is the most complex vehicle Toyota Division sells, so just by definition it's a problematic vehicle," Hanson said.The Avalon's transmission lurch is especially noticeable in low-speed crawls during rush hour, Hanson said. Previous Avalons had problems shifting smoothly at high speed with high engine revs. Toyota fixed the high-speed lurch by changing software algorithms, but the adjustment caused a low-speed lurch.The low-speed problem "is all software," Hanson says.Some customers are voting with their feet. In Seider's case, he replaced his wife's Toyota Sienna minivan with a Honda Pilot. He doubts he will replace the Avalon with another Toyota.Said Seider: "I am so disappointed in Toyota. I've had previous first-year vehicles, but nothing like this ever happened. Toyota's build quality has declined in recent years, and there seems to be nothing the dealer can do. Toyota has reached a size that they've lost sight of the individual customer."

[slvrvibes]

Looks like Toyota needs to clean up it act or it is just going to get worse with more recalls.

[Vibe_dude]

Oh wow what a great article.its what i have been saying about toyotas for years..........they are all about overwhelming the ppl out there by saying we make the best cars and trucks.........but in the end, a Kia is rated better then toyotas flagship.ROFL.....i love it.PPL have knocked Gm for years saying the have not done it right.......well toyota is only better then Gm in the way of covering up there flaws with my Consumer Reports crap.......Dont worry GM,toyota has got nothing.........just hipe.

[tangerine]

meh all manufacturers have their flaws, Toyota and Honda still have the most reliability.

[Vibe_dude]

Quote, originally posted by tangerine »meh all manufacturers have their flaws, Toyota and Honda still have the most reliability.See that is what iam talking about........ppl have been hit over the head for soooo many years that GM = BAD......toyota and honda = God's gift to the driving man..........its all there Pr crap........they are no better then and other car company...even Kia.its just they are better at hiding there flaws......ask the ppl on this board........ask them if they think there toyota is all and a bag of chips.i bet 75% would say that they have had problems that dont = what they have been told about toyota. am i bias..maybe iam a die hard GM and always will be........but lets let the truth be told about the false claims that other car companies have been hiding.

[ColonelPanic]

Quote, originally posted by Vibe_dude »....but in the end, a Kia is rated better then toyotas flagship.ROFL.....i love it.That's fricken awesome, I love seeing Hyundai/Kia beat Toyota at their own game. That's gotta be bad for their ego... Poor Toyota. LOL!

[falderal]

Consumer Reports: Most reliable cars '06"Of the 31 cars that earned the top rating, only two were from U.S.-based manufacturers -- the remaining 29 vehicles were from Japanese automakers, and none represented European brands. Almost half of the top 31 -- 15 vehicles -- were manufactured by Toyota.Of the vehicles with the worst reliability, 22 were from U.S.-based manufacturers, 20 from European brands, four from Japanese makers and two from South Korean companies." http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/....html

[Vibe_dude]

Quote, originally posted by falderal »Consumer Reports: Most reliable cars '06"Of the 31 cars that earned the top rating, only two were from U.S.-based manufacturers -- the remaining 29 vehicles were from Japanese automakers, and none represented European brands. Almost half of the top 31 -- 15 vehicles -- were manufactured by Toyota.Of the vehicles with the worst reliability, 22 were from U.S.-based manufacturers, 20 from European brands, four from Japanese makers and two from South Korean companies." http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/....html There is there P.R. hard at work again......ppl have been told these are such great cras that there is no abective opiniona about them......its like"i have been told these cars are the best so i will say there are too." and when the tranny goes at 40, and the squeaks and rattles drive u nuts at 10,........not to mention the higher sticker price....

[isaaclud]

Quote, originally posted by Vibe_dude »am i bias..maybe iam a die hard GM and always will be........but lets let the truth be told about the false claims that other car companies have been hiding. son, thats not just company hype....the test of time has spoken to the CAR-BUYING PUBLIC my friend... I dont buy that AT ALL.....look around....you see 1985 Accords all over the place....how many1985 Malibus you see? which ones had all the damn problems?IT HAS LONG BEEN A FACT IN AMERICA THAT IF YOU BOUGHT ANAMERICAN CAR FOR WHICH THERE WAS A JAPANESE COMPETITOR,THAT YOU COULDNT AFFORD THE JAP.....BUT YOU WISH YOU COULDHAVE......its been that way for at least 20 years nowlets not fool ourselves....why do you think the NISSAN TITAN is selling so damn well?its FINALLY a entry into a market that the JAPS havent been inpreviously! people are breathing a sigh of relief and saying "Wow, I dont need to put up with the eventual problems of this DODGE RAMor SILVERADO, I can just trust this JAP full-size truck"....and wait tilthe new tundra hits.....

[Pablo1669]

Quote, originally posted by Atomb »actually, i see a good habit...they're admitting to a problem! ...unlike some other manufacturers. wow, this statement shows what you really know about the automotive industry right there.I certainly hope you have heard about this a little while ago... or maybe you weren't referring to GM in your blanket statementhttp://www.slate.com/id/2084377/

[Kari]

Just because something was better in 1985 doesn't mean the same holds true today, either...I'd venture to say all of the car companies are pretty even right now. Even the almighty Toyota.I know when I look at an American vehicle I'm certainly not thinking, "I'm only buying this because I can't afford a Honda." I could get a Honda if I wanted one...I just don't want one.

[isaaclud]

Quote, originally posted by Kari »I'd venture to say all of the car companies are pretty even right now. Even the almighty Toyota.just outta curiousity, how does one prove this?what "measuring stick" would a study use foran accurate result? becuase THAT would be a GOOD STUDYI would say you are wrong, but hey......it would be niceto see it if is / is not true

[tangerine]

Quote, originally posted by Vibe_dude »See that is what iam talking about........ppl have been hit over the head for soooo many years that GM = BAD......toyota and honda = God's gift to the driving man..........its all there Pr crap........they are no better then and other car company...even Kia.its just they are better at hiding there flaws......ask the ppl on this board........ask them if they think there toyota is all and a bag of chips.i bet 75% would say that they have had problems that dont = what they have been told about toyota. am i bias..maybe iam a die hard GM and always will be........but lets let the truth be told about the false claims that other car companies have been hiding. Its not hearsay and false claims that makes me thing GM is **** when it comes to quality. Every import I'v had turned out to be the best car I'v driven and never had problems. Every GM vehicle that anyone in my family has owned, and Ford have been nothing but problems from get go...even the $58,000 Corvette is rediculous when we had it a week and it leaked water, seats wouldn't move, and they gorgot to put in the gasket on the trunk liner at factory.

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by isaaclud »you see 1985 Accords all over the place....maybe in your town....Quote, originally posted by isaaclud »why do you think the NISSAN TITAN is selling so damn well?its FINALLY a entry into a market that the JAPS havent been inpreviously! people are breathing a sigh of relief and saying "Wow, I dont need to put up with the eventual problems of this DODGE RAMor SILVERADO, I can just trust this JAP full-size truck"....and wait tilthe new tundra hits.....sorry to say but the Toyota Titan and Tundran aren't selling that well. and the Silverado just took J. D. Power Truck of the year in quality and customer satisfaction.Quote, originally posted by isaaclud »IT HAS LONG BEEN A FACT IN AMERICA THAT IF YOU BOUGHT ANAMERICAN CAR FOR WHICH THERE WAS A JAPANESE COMPETITOR,THAT YOU COULDNT AFFORD THE JAP.....BUT YOU WISH YOU COULDHAVE......its been that way for at least 20 years nowlets not fool ourselves....where did you come up with that? I remember when the first japanese cars were brought over here.(I've been in the auto industry for 30 years) and the price was always cheaper than its american counterpart, they use to be called throwaway cars cause it was expensive as heck to fix them and cheaper to just dump the rust bucket rather than fix it.

[isaaclud]

^ ok we are gonna have to agree to disagreeon this jazz.....becuase people are going to feel how they will and I'm not trying to changeopinions with my opinion....I still enjoy interacting with everyone here, ifnot slightly suprised with the views expressedby some...but live and let live I say....and we all own VIBESwhich speaks highly of us allstill, I retain my import>domestic quality as truth

[jake75]

The J.D. Power survey has to do with initial quality. I'd say most of us are more interested in long term quality - what happens AFTER the warranty runs out.My anti-GM bias is based primarily on a new 1977 Buick LeSabre Wagon which had only a 1 year 12,000 mile warranty. If the 1977 Buick had a 36 month warranty perhaps they would have finally found and fixed the cause of short lived starter motors and blown ignition coils but after 12 months I was on my own. The dealer did not know what the cause was - a communication to GM was answered with a form letter to see my dealer. After many years an independent shop said I should replace the plug wires and that seemed to at least solve the ignition coil failures. [Procare here has a 24 month 24,000 mile whichever come last warranty on repairs (vs. 3 month/3,00 mile at the dealer) so that's where I finally went for such repairs.]I am sure that today's GM offerings are much better but since I do not like 4-dr sedans, 2-dr coupes/sprts cars, typical SUV's, or trucks there are few GM models of interest. The GM minivans still have a lackluster reputation and IMO do not compare even to Chrysler's let alone to Honda or Toyota. My well equipped 2004 T&C V-6 SWB bought new for $18,500 at the beginning of that model year was a very good value and I get mid-20's mpg on trips.

[ColonelPanic]

Quote, originally posted by isaaclud »look around....you see 1985 Accords all over the place....how many1985 Malibus you see? which ones had all the damn problems?Well, duh! That is easy to answer. You're not seeing 1985 Malibus because the Malibu left after the 1983 model year and didn't reappear until 1997.

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic »Well, duh! That is easy to answer. You're not seeing 1985 Malibus because the Malibu left after the 1983 model year and didn't reappear until 1997. that means the Accord had more problems than the Malibu right? LOL

[ColonelPanic]

Yes, I would hazard a guess that at that particular model year, the Accord was a bigger piece of crap than the Malibu.

[isaaclud]

^ haha you cats got me....i was hopingthe malibu was even produced that year, but I didnt quick check...touche my man, touche

[ToolGuy]

[QUOTE=isaacludIT HAS LONG BEEN A FACT IN AMERICA THAT IF YOU BOUGHT ANAMERICAN CAR FOR WHICH THERE WAS A JAPANESE COMPETITOR,THAT YOU COULDNT AFFORD THE JAP.....BUT YOU WISH YOU COULDHAVE......its been that way for at least 20 years nowlets not fool ourselves....[/QUOTE]I work in the auto industry and have to strongly disagree here. Having owned and wrenched on both, I did not regret the American cars I have owned. They never died on me and I treated them well, likewise they treated me well. Beyond myself though, today's worst American car is still better then the best American car years ago. The gap between foreign and domestic has shrunk considerably, if people do not believe that their head is in the sand. I see it everyday, quality is comparable between both... And both sometimes share design info to make one great product, look at the 300C. People are not loyal to foreign or domestic like years ago. People buy on style, function and price. A company must have great styles or people look elsewhere. I could go on and my wife could go on about quality issues/stories from VW and Audi because she worked for them...

[ColonelPanic]

Quote, originally posted by isaaclud »^ haha you cats got me....i was hopingthe malibu was even produced that year, but I didnt quick check...touche my man, toucheYeah, I'd imagine if one would want to trash a product they'd at least beome vaguely familiar with it beforehand. But what do I know, I'm just some moron who traded in my lovely Toyota-engineered product on a Hyundai. But hey, by doing so, I got a car that has an engine that is actually smooth and doesn't knock like hell, the transmission actually fricken shifts and knows when to shift, I can roll the damn windows down, nothing rattles, nothing squeaks, water doesn't leak inside the car, the A/C WORKS!!!!!! And in two months time, 5000+ miles, it has not required attention of the service department. That's something my Vibe wasn't ever able to pull off, even when new it was already in the shop by this mileage once. Yep, Toyotas are great, after $8,000 in warranty expenses on the one I had, I decided I'll pass on another one. I've always been a GM guy and haven't ruled out buying another in the future either... They're not as bad as they once were, they're becoming better IMHO. I tend to see past the hype/BS/etc. and see the true value in a product... My previous GM cars have been better than the Toyota, and I bet if I bought another somewhere down the road, it would be too.

[Vibe_dude]

Beautifully said CP .that is what i think too........the gap has really closed on the american and inport cars.......and it has done so very fast(within about 2 model years)..the imports are runnin like chickens with no heads.......i dont blame Gm for the probs with the vibe....over all it was the best car for me to buy........even the all mighty matrix, wihich is a full toyota has alot of probs too........look at MO's boards to see...i think i will help keep CDN and US $$$ here in America and keep more jobs at Gm with buying my Gm cars.

[iyzmi]

Your vibe was just a lemon CP, it happens with all brands. If you traded it in for another Vibe (or any other Toyota) you probably wouldn't have had any of those problems. I've been hearing that Hyundai has increased it's quality but we'll just have to see about that AFTER your 100k warrenty is up. I'm not saying it won't be a great car after 100k, I'm just skepticle as to how well it will run after that point.And to all the die hard GM fans: If you are so die hard, then why did you buy a Toyota built car in the 1st place?One thing holds true for me, until I see GM and Korean cars rolling along smoothly at 200k miles, or even 160k miles without any problems, I will continue to be a die hard Japaneese car fan.

[ColonelPanic]

My whole experience with the "lemon" thing has been pretty amusing... My general observation of such things: With a Toyonda, people will say "oh, you just got a lemon" if they will even admit to these great manufacturers being even remotely capable of assembling a defective product at all. If the car would have been anything but a Toyonda, I have no dobut people would have been more like "Well, told ya so, all those cars are pieces of crap!" LOL!

[Vibe_dude]

Quote, originally posted by iyzmi »And to all the die hard GM fans: If you are so die hard, then why did you buy a Toyota built car in the 1st place?.I told u y i bought this car...it was the right "FIT" for the car i needed.......np pun intended u honda freaks.lol....it really had nothing to do with it being a toyota.....with that being said..no it being a toyota car did not "scare" me off either.......when all is said and done..i just wish that the imports cars have just as many probs as any american car...all u have to do is look at JD powers reports.........and Gm is by far the #1 seeling brand in Canada, has been a long time and will be for a very long time......so they must be doing alot right."My whole experience with the "lemon" thing has been pretty amusing... My general observation of such things: With a Toyonda, people will say "oh, you just got a lemon" if they will even admit to these great manufacturers being even remotely capable of assembling a defective product at all. If the car would have been anything but a Toyonda, I have no dobut people would have been more like "Well, told ya so, all those cars are pieces of crap!" LOL!"And CP......once again u took the words right out of my mouth.Have we met in a past car life?lol

[jake75]

Quality issues aside - when I bought my Vibe in Jan 2003 because GM was throwing all this money at me ($2,000 rebate, increased my $550 GM Card earnings to $2003, and dlr discount) there was not much in GM's stable that interested me. Not in to 4 door sedans, 2 dr coupes, SUV's, or trucks. Their minivans lacked the appeal of even Chrysler. Considered a GMC Sonoma only because it would only have cost me about $9,650 new incl AT & AC. (My wife convinced me that the extra 4 grand for the Vibe that included a power pkg was worth it.) At least now Chevy has the HHR which is functionally similar. A Cobalt hatchback would make sense.

[iyzmi]

CP, I would not be afraid to admit if I bought a GM and it was a lemon either. All brands have lemons and no cars should break down as often as yours did so early in it's life... You can have a Toyota lemon that breaks down every 5k miles or a GM lemon that breaks down every 5k miles. Point is you were just unlucky enough to get one of those and if you got another Vibe you'd most likely be have a great car on your hands but I'm glad your happy with your Hyundai, I hope it serves you well, better than your Vibe did at least.

[ToolGuy]

Quote, originally posted by iyzmi »And to all the die hard GM fans: If you are so die hard, then why did you buy a Toyota built car in the 1st place?Some people bought on the style of the car. At the time not too many manf had cars out like the Vibe. If a GM die hard bought the Vibe at least they knew all or most of the money stayed here in the States, compared to buying the Matrix where all the money goes back to Japan...