Unsolvable Front End Noise

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:06 am

I need some advice. My 05 base has 35K and has been making a crunching sound during slow speed turns (like in a parking lot) since the 18K mark. It's been to the dealer five times already, and they have lubed the suspension, replaced the control arms, and on Wednesday, replaced the left front wheel bearing. Of course, the dealer always has trouble "replicating the customer's concern."The replacement of the wheel bearing has lessened, but not eliminated the noise, so it goes back tomorrow.Has anyone gone through this before, because I'm at the end of my rope, as well as at the end of the warranty.Where else should I have the dealer look? CV joints? Strut bearings? Anything else come to mind before I file a claim with GM under the Ohio Lemon Law?All help is appreciated. Thanks.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:25 am

Does it crunch and then stop crunching, or, say you drive in a slow circle, does it crunch all the time? Is it related to turning steering wheel? Does it matter if you use the brakes or not? Does it matter if you are turning left or right? You say "at slow speeds" but does the sound vary consistently with speed? Anything else you can offer to help narrow down the exact circumstances that cause the noise to occur will help.Theoretically, people have said that if you take it in for a complaint before the warranty expires, they are still on the hok to fix it under warranty even if it takes them so long that the warranty expires. If it were me, I'd confirm this with the dealer before the warranty expires.oh, and that was a quick 35K miles

Atomb · Post by **Atomb** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:13 am

i noticed a similar sound recently when i had my radio turned off..so i don't know how long it's been going on for...but the sound is exactly the same as the sound i hear when i brake at slow speeds. it also seems to only happen right after i use my brakes. if i do a slow turn after driving for a bit it doesn't seem to do anything. so i'm convinced it's something to do with the brakes...in my case at least.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:54 pm

The only other thing I can think of are the CV joints, not sure why they haven't gone down that route yet... I'm no mechanic, but I've always heard that when those die, generally you'll get some noise when turning...I'd certainly investigate what Joatmon suggested, I have found dealers that will honor that policy. Since it has been thoroughly documented and has been going on for half of your warranty period, I don't see that being a problem but definitely check with them.If Ohio lets you file a lemon law claim at this mileage, by all means go for it before it's too late if you're up to the challenge. I would have loved to have that option when I had the Vibe, but I piled the mileage on too quick and the problems cropped up too late so the laws in Indiana were of no use. The car before that though, I had a similar issue where I had multiple trips to the shop to the point where the dealer gave up on fixing it and said they couldn't do anything for me... I did take it up the channels to arbitration. I didn't get the car bought back but the BBB forced GM to fix it, and sure enough thanks to the squeaky wheel getting the grease, I got the darn thing fixed. That many trips to the shop for your problem isn't good, I've been there - see if you can get some help. Even if you don't get the car bought back, you'll at least stand a better chance of them actually putting forth more effort to fixing the thing. Just have everything together though, arbitration was flat out nasty, GM has some smart people who really know what they're doing that will battle against you. They're brutal!

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:53 pm

It only makes the noise when turning, as into a parking lot, or backing out of a parking spot. Seems to make more noise in right turns than left. At any speed above 10 mph, there's no noise. Any ideas?It's back at the dealer this morning, and I will let you know what they find out.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:45 pm

Does it make a noise when you turn the steering wheel? How about if you stop, turn the steering wheel, and then go around in a turn, not moving the steering wheel when the car is moving? If you go to a big empty parking lot and turn in a circle reqpeatedly, doe it make one crunch sound when you first start into the turn, or does it crunch the whole time you are going around and around? If it makes sound the whole time you are going around in circles, is the sound at 4 mph different than when at 8 mph?anyway, good luck at the dealer today

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:06 pm

Yes, it makes the noise when the steering wheel is turned both at low speeds In a parking lot, it will crunch when you initiate the turn, and also while the car is circling.Thank God, this morning the Service Manager heard it as well, so there is evidence that I'm not completely out of my mind.I really like my Vibe, and just want the damn thing fixed. Barring that, I'd be ok with GM buying it back and giving me an identical '06.I'll keep you all posted.

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:51 am

Nothing to report yet, as the mechanic was unable to duplicate the noise on Friday, but, yet, when I got into it and circled the building, it made the noise for me.So, I'm driving a loaner car this weekend.

jasonvibe · Post by **jasonvibe** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:32 pm

if it's a rotaional noise. It could be a faulty output bearing of the tranny which connects to the drive shafts. But This is a rare possibility. They should at the very least remove the CV boots and look. They can seal them back up easily with the right tool. ALSO , NEVER let them drive the car without you in it. This only delays the diagnosis. You have lived with this car for a while. You know what is normal. They may not. I have yet to find an very good dealer service dept.. Only 20% are any good....and that's an optimistic account from me. And those are usually the high end dealers...Lexus, Infinity, etc.

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:57 am

The diagnosis came late yesterday, and the dealer has now ordered a left front brake caliper. Unfortunately, it did not come in today, so I'm still in a loaner car.I'm curious as to how a caliper can cause noise while turning. I've never heard of it. Anyone have any thoughts?

engineertwin2 · Post by **engineertwin2** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:22 am

I'm curious if maybe the caliper was loose (maybe torqued on too tight and stripped the bolts). Then maybe when turning brake line pulled it just enough to rub.When my Volvo had noise (moaning and groaning) at low/no speeds and turning, it ended up being the steering bump stops had worn out (made of rubber).

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:34 am

I hope they get the part soon and that it fixes the problem.

orangecrush · Post by **orangecrush** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:28 am

HeyI was just browsing through these and found your post on the front end noise. I have complained of this since 8,000 mi on my car and still every time they just lube the front end, retork all the bolts on front end and one time made me pay for clean and adjust on my rear brakes saying that was the problem (why my rear brakes i will never figure out when the noise was coming from the front) but I went along with it. Please let me know if this resolves your issue My husband's about to kill me for complaining about it!

jasonvibe · Post by **jasonvibe** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:40 am

it is possible the caliper sliders or caliper piston are stuck...rusted. And when turning the pads touch the rotor. But you would have uneven braking.....A pull to one side. It's a slim possibility....but there.

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:54 pm

Another day passes, and yet, no word from the dealer. I still cannot understand how a caliper can cause a rotational noise in the front.If I was a betting man, I'd say that the noise is a combination of the bad left front wheel bearing causing the left front CV to become uneven. Since the noise diminished when the wheel bearing was replaced, I've been hounding the service department that they need to look at the CVs as well as the steering rack.On the upside, I'm driving a loaner G6, which isn't a bad car at all. But it's only getting about 25 mpg, which is a far cry from the Vibe.Hopefully, I'll hear something today and will keep you posted.

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:01 am

Got my Vibe back this afternoon, and the diagnosis was that the left front caliper was sticking to the mounting bracket. The dealer tried to lubricate with no luck. A new caliper and mounting bracket were installed and so far, no noise.

Atomb · Post by **Atomb** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:07 am

which goes with my sound which sounds alot like my brakes!hmmm i wonder if one of my calipers is sticking also?thanks for the update, i'll have to check it out when i change my pads (coming up in the next 6 months or so).

jasonvibe · Post by **jasonvibe** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:17 am

A sticking caliper is always accompanied by uneven braking, pulling to one side & significantly more wear on one set of brake pads....

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:34 pm

In my case, the brakes didn't pull, nor was the pad unevenly worn. Since the dealer replaced the caliper, now I have a metallic clanking coming from the left front when driving on a bumpy road. Took it back yesterday, and, of course, the dealer can't find anything wrong. I'm going to pull the wheel myself tonight and see what's going on, since Mr. Goodwrench can't find the noise.

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:35 am

Dude, I'd love to go to another dealer, but unfortunately, the dealer that I've taken it to is the better of the two within twenty miles of my house. Plus, I don't get a loaner somewhere else, so I get hosed paying Enterprise $25/day so that I can get to work.

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:32 pm

A good idea. Before I do that, though, I'm jacking it up tonight and pulling the wheel off to see what the hell's going on. Neighbor has air tools and it's a good excuse to have a beer or two....lol.

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:10 pm

Pulled the LF wheel last night, and nothing seems to be amiss. The sound I hear is a metallic clanking sound when the LF wheel is going over bumps. Anyone have any ideas?

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:17 am

Does it happen while you are braking and turning at the same time under the conditions you stated above?Have you ever had a brake job done?Where I am going with this is the brake pads may be slapping the rotors since they have or are worn, thus the noise when you turn. Did the dealer check the brake caliper? It could be sticking and hanging up on you...

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:35 am

The metallic clanging sound occurs when the LF wheel hits a bump. Since that's the side which just received a brand new caliper, and this noise did not occur prior to the installation of the caliper. Any thoughts? Everything is tight - I pulled the wheel and checked.

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:08 am

Caliper bracket making contact with the rotor?

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:47 am

Could be, but incredibly hard to tell. When I had the LF wheel off, I thought that there was more play in the caliper assembly than on the RF side. I can wiggle the caliper about 1/8" from top to bottom. The mounting bolt on the back of the caliper is as tight as it goes, and I also took the time to properly torque the lug to 72 ft./lbs. per the owner's manual.

jasonvibe · Post by **jasonvibe** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:29 am

there is a metal dust shield....that can be bent or damaged when someone does brake work. You can't miss it. It may be loose or damaged.CHECK it. The caliper is a sliding type. That slide laterally on pins(as most calipers). There should be almost no play. Take the dealer for a ride...again! DON'T let them test drive it without you. I have waited for hours only to hear, "cannot duplicate". Then I drag them by the short hairs and show them! They either say, "that's normal", or "oh that ". Then I say, it's new and it's not normal. Wish this was the "old west" and we could shoot the liars without being thrown in jail. Screwing up a car is like stealing a horse, no ?

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:55 pm

Quote, originally posted by new05vibeowner Â»The metallic clanging sound occurs when the LF wheel hits a bump. OK well at least you can verify that part... How about trying to duplicate the sound, hitting a bump, only with your foot on the brake?This way it will tell you if it is in the braking system for sure. I am wondering if when the caliper was replaced the Tech did not use anything between the pad and the caliper OR your pads are worn enough that there is room for them to move and hit the rotor from the bump movement. The other side may not be doing it since it is still the original pad and has not been bothered since the car was assembled.

jasonvibe · Post by **jasonvibe** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:07 am

just to be more specific. The dust shield is a large vertical plate directly behind the rotor(disc). The mechanic would be a moron not to use the shims. Then again,,,,in an effort to save $$ the service managers in some places rule what the mechanics are allowed to change for parts. New vs. used.

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:46 pm

Thanks Jason. I'll have the dealer check it out. The Vibe is at the dealer now, and I politely told the Service Manager that I am now at 36,200 miles, my warranty is up, and that this is the LAST time I'm bringing it to them for anything should they not solve the problem. The car didn't clang before they replaced the caliper, therefore it is their problem to make it right. Should they fail to solve the problem, I'm willing and prepared to make waves to Pontiac zone management and corporate customer service in Michigan. BTW, I'm driving a lovely '05 Chevy Classic (old Malibu) as a loaner car. What a piece of junk! But it got me to work.

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:04 am

Spoke with the dealer this afternoon, who confirms that there is a noise (duh) and that they are "trying to find what it is." I suggested to check out the dust shield. He doesn't think that's it. I'll keep everyone posted.

jasonvibe · Post by **jasonvibe** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:29 am

Is there someway we all can make waves. Pontiac customer service seems to be a seperate company from GM. Like they don't respect or understand each other.

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:57 am

Day 2 of being Vibeless. Service Manager says both he and the tech can hear the clanking, but are clueless as to what it could be. I suggested that they take a look at the dust shield on the driver's side to see if they forgot to replace the shims when they replaced the caliper. I also suggested they call Pontiac tech support; he said they already did and that they were no help. So much for the gurus in Detroit knowing what the hell they are doing........

jasonvibe · Post by **jasonvibe** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:49 am

Tell them to call a Toyota dealer. The brakes are all Toyota. Finding the answer...The dealer sounds like a tree looking at itself in the mirror waiting for the leaves to fall. .....I will try to help.....If it is a true clanging like a tin can...it is often thin metal. Only the dust shield qualifies as thin metal down there. If it's a clunk...something is not fastened properly.

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:05 am

It's most definately a clanging sound. I will suggest that they call the Toyota dealer if they don't have it figured out by tomorrow.

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:21 am

After I suggested that the dealer take a look at the shim issue on the driver's side, they report that they had to "reshim" the pad. I've never heard of a shim to secure the pad. But since I've not yet hung pads on the Vibe, who knows. The sound is gone, finally, and I'm a happy Viber again.Thanks for everyone's input.

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:35 am

Quote, originally posted by new05vibeowner Â»After I suggested that the dealer take a look at the shim issue on the driver's side, they report that they had to "reshim" the pad. I've never heard of a shim to secure the pad. But since I've not yet hung pads on the Vibe, who knows. The sound is gone, finally, and I'm a happy Viber again.Thanks for everyone's input.Glad this seems to have solved it. And yes shims aid in not having noise and are on both ends of the brake pad. Without them the pads can move around in the holder. This is why I asked you to test the car with the brakes applied. Once applied, the pads to not move around since they are pressed against the rotor. At any rate, glad it is gone!

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:30 am

I rotated the tires this morning, and apparently, the dealer also replaced the pad on the driver's side. Interesting.....

Unsolvable Front End Noise

Unsolvable Front End Noise

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