How to get 83 mpg in a Vibe/Corolla/Matrix....

[lexicon]

CNG, compressed natural gas, aka CNG or a NGV Natural Gas Vehicle.Think about it. We pay approx $3.128 gal for Gasoline. Cost per equivalent gallon of Natural gas( the stuff you get in your homes) is #1.18 per gallon. So, if you typically get 30 mpg and are now paying approx 1/3 of what you normally pay for a gallon of petrol/gasoline, you are ALMOST tripling your mileage . Or, look at it this way. If you pay approx. 1/3rd less per gallon of gas for the equivalent mileage, you are getting approx 83 mpg. HONDA has gone full bore and produces the GNX (do a google search), its a CNG vehicle. BUT, Toyota attempted a CNG Camry in 1999 for 3 years. It then stopped production.Why is it that TOYOTA , one of the largest world car producers gave up on this great fuel? I dunno.BUT in Argentina and Italy(the largest number of CNG vehicles) they convert all types of brands of vehicles, including Toyotas for dual fuel.Why cant we import the conversion kits that are used overseas and convert our own vehicles.These vehicles are MUCH cleaner than gasoline cars.If you pump your "gas" at home via your own garage pump, you pay approx $1.18 per equivalent gallon.Why cant TOYOTA (Corolla, Matrix, Vibe)owners unite to get something going to allow our cars to be converted.Why is there no apparent interest?How many of you would seriously persue this dual fuel alternative to gasoline.Do you think there is interest enough to get this ball rolling?OPinions, comments, welcome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ragingfish]

To me it seems not that your getting more miles per gallon but more miles per dollar no?

[lexicon]

Yes, but lets face it, when you are looking for a great mpg car , you are essentially equating mpg directly to cost of vehicle operation.If you do the numbers, NGV's truly equates to very high mpg or mp/dollar. And, of course, you are looking at other costs to get this conversion.Hey, a new Prius starts somewhere around $23.000 and gets (in real life) around 47 mpg. Other costs associated are battery replacement down the road.With CNG, it could be a dual fuel vehicle conversion, you could run it on gasoline and Compressed Natural gas. The costs are the original conversion and the home (garage) filling station for overnight fill-up.

[joatmon]

I can not get CNG at my house. I get LP gas, truck delivered, and expensive compared to other energy sources, but I do it because "Now I'm cooking with gas" Refilling a NGV would be problematic for me.more miles per dollar is always nice. I bought one of those scan gauges, and use it as a trip computer. I find that often going down a long hill in neutral I can easily get hundreds of mpg in my Vibe. I haven't figured out the going up the other side part yet, but I 'm halfway there How do the HP numbers compare for the same engine between CNG and gasoline? We north americans tend to demand lots of power in our cars

[tnpartsguy]

Problem is, CNG, like E85, doesn't get the same MPG as Gas....Look for a 20+% decrease in effiecency....

[JohnC]

A friend of mine got in on the "great Arizona alternate fuel" scam several years ago...don't ask it was a major rip-off of the tax payers. Anyway he had a NG compressor installed at his home at a cost to him of $1000 + cost to tax payer of $5500. The range on his "fuel conserving" Suburban is very short and it takes overnight to refill. He continues to get many tax breaks though. I think if there is going to be any tax payer subsidies, it should be on actual total effeciency and amount of pollution emitted. This kind of program actually hurts alt./effecient vehicles.

[joatmon]

another factor to consider, not a stopper, but affects the cost equations:Quote, originally posted by lexicon »If you pump your "gas" at home via your own garage pump, you pay approx $1.18 per equivalent gallon.My house has a fuel oil furnace, runs off #2 fuel oil, which is effectively the same as #2 diesel fuel. I can go to a gas station and buy diesel fuel and put it in the oil tank for the furnace, but it is against the law for me to take fuel oil out of the furnace tank and use it in a vehicle. THe issue is that fuel used for heat is not subjected to the taxes as motor vehicle fuel. jurisdictions that allow use of heating CNG to replace taxed gasoline will lose a lot of revenue, so expect either a lot of governmental resistance, or perhaps a second metered outlet will have cost increased to include various road taxes.

[northvibe]

yea id have to see mpg numbers to see if it would be worth it. economically hybrids dont save you any money over a gas car until like 5 years and E85 being slightly cheaper you lose some mpg compared to gas. the big thing is going to be the disiel from the UK that should be in the US in 2007. then we'll be getting the 60mpg like most of their cars do....

[lexicon]

Regarding fuel efficiency- CNG has an octane rating of approx. 122 compared to 87 for regular gas.When comparing gallons of a liquid vs gallons of a gas. You are looking at two different things. The typical term used in the Nat. Gas industry is a GGE which is a Gasoline Gallon Equivalency.Just for reference, the cng tank in the civic gx is 100 liter liquid capacity, but it's cng capacity is 8 gallon gasoline equivalent(gge) 3600 psi and 70 deg.f. The driving range for the tank on the Honda GX is approx 230 miles. If you were to compare the same Natural Gas Honda Civic with the same engine, you would probably see a 12% decrease in power.If you used the same tank size in a Vibe/Corolla/Matrix, you would ' probably" see a similar driving range or, approx 200 miles.BUT, remember that a dual fuel vehicle would allow you to switch to gasoline at any time, so, if you were to be concerned that you would run out of "gas", you could drive on your supply of "petrol-gasoline" until you refilled your NG tank.Since I have no direct #s for the 1.8 Toyota engine at this point, this is hypothetical, but based on comparison to the Honda. It all boils down to the CNG kit that you install and how well the electronics are optimized to take advantage of the Toyota Computer and the 122 octane fuel.

[Dr J]

Quote, originally posted by lexicon »Regarding fuel efficiency- CNG has an octane rating of approx. 122 compared to 87 for regular gas....Let's not confuse 2 things here.1. Octane is simply a rating of how much pressure(compression) is required in order to ignite a fuel/air mixture without a spartk. Higher the Octane rating the more you can compress a fuel without it xploding on it's own. This does not denote an energy rating.... more closely a volatility rating.2. Fuel efficiency is controlled by 1 thing, how well your engine/driveline get's energy to the ground while combating wind and rollin resistance. You're gonna lose energy to things like heat and friction, etc. Octane does not figure directly into this unless you have premature ignition due to a low octane rating. (MPG is a combination of efficiency and available energy in the fuel)Here's what I'd like to get just a simple response on.......1. What is the average difference in MPG on a dual fuel vehicle between....-Gasoline(pre-conversion)-Gasoline(post-conversion)-CNGFeel free to use specific vehicle conversion examples.2. How much does conversion cost. Everything from fill stations to engine mods. Again, feel free to use specific conversion examples.