Use parking brake with manual transmission?

esjones · Post by **esjones** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:06 am

Manual transmission users... do you use the parking brake when you park the Vibe, or just leave it in gear? - ESJ

millster · Post by **millster** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:11 am

In the winter I avoid using the parking brake with all the water that gets into the wheels (potential for freezing). Maybe that's a misguided action but I'd rather not find out the hard way. The one exception is if I'm parked on a steep hill. I'll set the brake then. Come summer time, I use the parking brake all the time.

Vibe Rater · Post by **Vibe Rater** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:47 am

Always, more by force of habit now.

MrRich · Post by **MrRich** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:04 am

quote:In the winter I avoid using the parking brake with all the water that gets into the wheels (potential for freezing). Maybe that's a misguided action but I'd rather not find out the hard way. The one exception is if I'm parked on a steep hill. I'll set the brake then. Come summer time, I use the parking brake all the time.Exactly same here!!!

millster · Post by **millster** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:29 am

quote:Exactly same here!!! Good to know I'm not the only one!

DopeVibeGT · Post by **DopeVibeGT** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:59 am

Always. Better to have someone bump into you with the ebrake on and take the force, rather than the transmission. Brakes are a LOT cheaper.

cohocarl · Post by **cohocarl** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:00 am

I set the parking brake (along with leaving it in gear) every time I park the car. Not only safer, but it keeps the cable & related parts from rusting up.

Frosty · Post by **Frosty** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:03 am

Yes, mostly, sometimes, I should more often.....I shut the car off in gear and walk away. Bad practice. If the grandson gets away and moves the gear lever like he sees grampa do, it could roll, slightly. I park on the level in my driveway. Glad you brought it up. I will try to do better.

kaybeejay · Post by **kaybeejay** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:19 am

I ALWAYS use the parking brake. I live in California so cold weather is not a concern.When I drive an automatic, I always Set the brake FIRST then put it into P. That way, the load is on the brakes and not on your trany. Like someone said, brakes are cheaper to fix. Also the brakes were designed to "stop the vehicle", the transmission - albeit is probably strong - wasn't.

Rico Rose · Post by **Rico Rose** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:23 am

I always use my parking brake when i am parked, and sometimes when i am moving they are great to use to pull the rear of the car around to make a quick turn. Especially if the pavement is wet or snow covered. Lots of fun. Practice in a parking lot first to get the feel of it...I guess i watch WRC on the speed channel too much...

JayAyeEm · Post by **JayAyeEm** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:41 am

I was taugh that with a manual, you use the parking brake and leave it in first gear, so that is what I do.

rasermon · Post by **rasermon** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:42 am

I always use my parking brake. Like cohocarl said, if you don't use it your cable will rust will other related parts. It happen to me with my 1999 GMC Highrider and cost $256 to fix.

millster · Post by **millster** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:52 am

So the question is, can the parking brake not freeze when set during the winter? Like I say, I could easily have been misled. From the number of you who do set it all the time, I'm thinking this is the case. Thoughts?

Post by **NSimkins** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 11:05 am

I have an Auto. I have set my parking brake every time I park since I got my Vibe in July 2002 and have not had any problems with the brakes sticking from the cold conditions... even after a car wash in the below freezing winter.

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 11:16 am

I set the parking brake on all 3 of my car EVERY time I park. Everyone should. It's much better for the brake to hold your vehicle from moving than the parking tang in the automatic or the gears/clutch of a manual.I have NEVER had a problem with it freezing and we just went through the worst winter here in 6 years.

millster · Post by **millster** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 11:21 am

Fair enough. Thanks everyone. I just went out and set the parking brake.

Frosty · Post by **Frosty** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 11:32 am

quote:I guess i watch WRC on the speed channel too much...That is not possible! See http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=1909

canadavibegt · Post by **canadavibegt** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 1:46 pm

quote:I set the parking brake (along with leaving it in gear) every time I park the car. Not only safer, but it keeps the cable & related parts from rusting up. have to agree........ use both..... in event one fails and keeps all the cables and parts working....... Old car I had for 10 years and drove in all sorts of weather and always used park brake never froze once...... think that is left over from the old days........

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:33 pm

Always using the parking brake and manual tranny in neutral.If I don't do that, remote engine starter won't work.

coratz · Post by **coratz** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:45 pm

always use your parking brake!!!! dont worry about freezing, it just wont happen. always leave your manual tranny in reverse gear when parked. in my old sunfire i got hit by another car when it was left in first gear, after that the transmission constantly mand a whinning sound.i got that fixed under warenty. about 3 weeks later i got hit harder and in the same spot on the rear bumper, i had left the tranny in reverse this time as the dealer recommened. no tranny damage. also, when you put your parking brake on and your car in reverse, it makes it harder for those flat bed to trucks to scoop your car. i also would hate to have not put the parking brake on if my car poped out of gear and rolled over some kid.you would have to live with the guilt and you would be civily sued. those cables are very expensive to replace if you dont use your parking brake. you will hear a pop and a crunch when you break one.

Triton · Post by **Triton** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:56 pm

I always use the parking brake only. I never leave it in any gear. I wouldn't worry about it freezing up, but if you don't use it, I would worry about corrosion. From what the other members have said, leaving it in any other gear besides reverse is hazardous if you get hit. But I don't want the beeping reverse in my GT to come on every time I turn the key. Plus I have never put my other manual transmissions in any gear when parked, I just used the hand brake.

robdog · Post by **robdog** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:15 pm

I use the hand brake when parked on a hill. Usually not on a flat surface. I probaly should, I don't know why I don't. Probaly a good idea to practice this habit a little harder.

Pawel · Post by **Pawel** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:52 am

This is my 3rd car with manual tranny. I never put p brake on unless I'm parking on really big hill. I believe that leaving car on only p brake is wrong. P brake cable might get lose much easier then tranny popping out of the gear. Just my $.02

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 11:04 am

I have an auto, i always use the hand brake. My parents yell at me cause when they need to drive my car or move it, they can't figure out how to disable it (hard to believe!) Anyway, I was always taught to use it, it takes stress off the tranny, and is just a smart habit to get into.So that's my thought.

Jethro · Post by **Jethro** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 1:38 pm

I always use my parking brake - even with an automatic. This was taught in Driver's Ed back when they actually taught how to drive defensively and responsibly.Of course the habit was really forced on me since my first car was a Corvair with a 2-speed "LO & GO" PowerSlide tranny - they did not have PARK!! Of course since the hand brake didn't work real well on hills I frequently used an "Emergency BRICK" too! I was taught to always use the Parking Brake, setting your brake before placing the car in Park or back in gear; and to always turn your wheels to ensure the car would roll toward the curb if it did move. And to put most of the weight of the car against the brake instead of the transmission for exactly the reason several others here have said - the brakes are much cheaper to repair.I also always park (with a manual transmission) in Reverse except when parking with the car pointing uphill - then you should use First gear. Not sure if it's valid reasoning or not but was always told the engine had more natural braking power if trying to turn backwards from its normal rotation.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 10:51 am

I've never heard of that.My first car was a Bonneville. My family got it in 89. It was passed down to me in 98. They NEVER used the brake. Probably didn't even know it was there. When I got the car, I started using the brake. It worked fine.There seem to be a lot of urban legends about parking brakes that lead people to believe that they're poorly made or unreliable. As far as I know, they have to be built strong to help stop the car in the event your regular brakes fail. I thought I heard somewhere you shift the car into neutral, shut off the engine, and let the car slow naturally, until it's slow enough, then you slowly engage the parking brake. Can anyone confirm this?

millster · Post by **millster** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 11:21 am

quote: As far as I know, they have to be built strong to help stop the car in the event your regular brakes fail. I thought I heard somewhere you shift the car into neutral, shut off the engine, and let the car slow naturally, until it's slow enough, then you slowly engage the parking brake. Can anyone confirm this?Hence the occasional nickname of emergency or "E" brake I suppose. I believe you're correct, except that I've rarely seen it recommended to shut off the engine as this will result in locking the steering column or at the very least disabling the power assist. I think that might go out the window in the case of a stuck throttle, but that's a whole other topic.

cohocarl · Post by **cohocarl** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 11:24 am

quote:I thought if you did not use your parking break and 5 years later you decide to use it don't because it will most likely freeze up on you.Has anyone else hear this or have this happen to them?Yes

cohocarl · Post by **cohocarl** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 11:36 am

quote:BE CAREFULL HOWEVER!A friend parked in a shopping centre parking lot, with his manual tranny in first gear and the hand brake on got bumped in by another car. Well turns out that the hit damaged his tranny and had to have some parts replaced.I always park in reverse in my driveway and put the hand brake and leave the gears in reverse Could someone explain to me how the tranny would be damaged by it being in 1st gear instead of reverse if bumped? If anything, I could see maybe 3rd or 4th may be "easier" on the tranny if bumped due to the gear ratios. (the ratio of reverse is usually about the same as 1st)Thanks,Carl

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Sat Mar 22, 2003 2:37 am

I've had parking brakes seize several times from disuse! I borrowed a friend's car once and put it on by habit, and when I went to drive off, it was jammed solid, because he never used it. With my old Firefly (Metro/Suzuki) I used it always, over a period of 17 years and 360,000 km. and the cables never needed service or stuck even once. (although the brake shoes would rust to the drums sometimes)

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:19 am

Wow, I wouldn't think that could happen to such a crucial component of the car. *shrug* go figure. learn something new every day.Well, I guess that just goes to show you should engage it once in a while just to be sure it doesn't break down on ya.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:56 am

quote:Well, usually it happens because of rust. If you do not use it, and then you decide too, it gwts hung up and will not move.gotcha

Cubanpete · Post by **Cubanpete** » Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:18 pm

I always shift it in gear 1st or 2nd and use the hand brake as well....all the time, general rule when driving manual!

Cubanpete · Post by **Cubanpete** » Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:20 pm

This is true and most of the time when you use it often the brake clip has a higher chance of poping!

satur9 · Post by **satur9** » Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:50 pm

leave it in gear and p-brake!my sunbird parking brake was loose andit rolled into a semi truck .but now i have the vibe

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Mar 23, 2003 5:28 am

quote: I believe you're correct, except that I've rarely seen it recommended to shut off the engine as this will result in locking the steering column or at the very least disabling the power assist. Sorry, I got my routine's screwed up. I was thinking of the accelerator stuck. Supposedly then, you shift into neutral and turn off the engine (but leave the car in "on" so it doesn't lock the wheel), and slow down enough to use the E brake to come to a complete top.I guess if you're brakes failed you would probably want to downshift to the point where you're slow enough to slowly ease the E brake on...

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Sun Mar 23, 2003 1:16 pm

When I park, I ALWAYS put it in 1st and use the e-brake. From reading this thread, I will now be using reverse. I learned to use 1st or reverse to park in depending on whether you are facing uphill or downhill (in Pittsburgh there is no flat to park on, lol). In my Mustang's owner's manual, it said to always use 1st and the parking brake. In the Vibe's owner's manual, it says to always use reverse and the parking brake. I did that for a while, but like it was said earlier in this thread, the beeping every time I turned the key was getting really annoying. Now reading about the damage to trannys when parked in 1st, I will be sure to use reverse. I'll just have to take it out of gear before I turn the key to avoid the dreaded beeping.For emergency maneuvers--Stuck throttle--tap the gas pedal with your foot a few times first to try to knock it free. If that does not work, shift car to neutral, use brakes to slow you down and pull car to side of the road and come to complete stop. Shut off car. Do not shut it off while it is moving. You can lock the steering wheel, will lose power brakes and steering. I had a throttle pedal get stuck one time to the carpeting in a very old and beat up Ford F-150 pickup. I can say that this procedure works very well from first-hand experience.Lose the brakes--downshift through the gears and use your emergency brake to help you slow down and bring you to a stop. Be careful not to panic and pull real hard on the e-brake as this can lock up the rear wheels and possibly cause the car to spin out of control, particularly at high speeds. Again, do not shut off the car because it will do you no good when you have to downshift and for the same reasons listed above.As for parking a manual in reverse, I too would like to know the reasoning why this does less damage to the tranny than parking in first if your car gets bumped while parked. I know that when an automatic is put in park, force on the 2 drive wheels is opposed by the transmission. For example, if you jack up the front end of a front wheel drive car so both front wheels are off the ground, when you manually spin one of them, the opposite one will spin in the opposite direction just as fast as the one you are spinning. This way, when a rotational force is applied to one of the drive wheels the other wheel must be able to move in the opposite direction. This is why the car doesn't move when on the ground and in park. The rolling force caused by the weight of the car is being put on the transmission. This is not good and is why you should always use the parking brake with an automatic transmission.As for the e-brake cable freezing in the winter, I used to have this happen occasionally with my 1994 Grand Prix. Sometimes it was really stuck, but most of the time it was partially stuck and caused the rear brakes to rub the rotors until it released. I think this happened because of the way the cable was routed and because it was completely exposed almost the whole way on the underside of the car. I have never had a problem with any of my other cars before or since then. Certainly no trouble with the Vibe, even after washing it in the winter and leaving it outside.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Mar 23, 2003 11:57 pm

quote:Stuck throttle--tap the gas pedal with your foot a few times first to try to knock it free. If that does not work, shift car to neutral, use brakes to slow you down and pull car to side of the road and come to complete stop. By shifting into neutral with a stuck throttle, when you release the wheels from the engine and set the engine free, wouldn't it rev so high it would blow up?

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 12:42 am

quote:For example, if you jack up the front end of a front wheel drive car so both front wheels are off the ground, when you manually spin one of them, the opposite one will spin in the opposite direction just as fast as the one you are spinning. This way, when a rotational force is applied to one of the drive wheels the other wheel must be able to move in the opposite direction. This is why the car doesn't move when on the ground and in park.That's not completly correct. That happens because the wheels are connected to a open differential case. It has nothing to do with the trans. If in the same example (both front wheels off the ground, engine off) you put the trans in gear, this will also happen.

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 12:44 am

quote:By shifting into neutral with a stuck throttle, when you release the wheels from the engine and set the engine free, wouldn't it rev so high it would blow up?Yes, that could possibly happen. But if my choice was to blow the engine and stop safely or keep it in gear and crash (destroying the car, the engine and possibly myself), I'd blow the engine and keep my car and my health.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 2:07 am

This was exactly the point. It is more important to save yourself (and the others on the road) than your engine. You can replace your engine, you can't replace people. Also, many newer cars have an electronic rev limiter (like our Vibes do) that will prevent the car from revving out of control. Even on a car that does not have the rev limiter, you should be able to stop the car safely and shut off the engine quickly enough that the engine will not blow up in most cases.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 2:28 am

quote:That's not completly correct. That happens because the wheels are connected to a open differential case. It has nothing to do with the trans. If in the same example (both front wheels off the ground, engine off) you put the trans in gear, this will also happen.I was relaying my general observations that my friends and I had made when working on our cars and had them up on a lift. We found that when in park, the wheels would turn as I described earlier. When in drive, the wheels would do the same, but if my friend held the other drive wheel still, I could still spin the drive wheel on my side. I attributed this observation to the open differential as you mentioned earlier. If it were a posi differential, when in gear, I should only be able to turn a drive wheel if the other drive wheel is free to turn as well (a locking differential). I first noticed this on my 94 GP. When I only had one side jacked up (as to change brake pads, as the car so frequently required), if the tranny was in park, I could not spin the wheel at all. If the whole front end was off the ground, the wheel would spin, but the other one would spin just as fast in the opposite direction.I do not doubt your explanation, as my automotive knowledge pales sadly in comparison to yours. I just thought that I figured out how "park" worked to hold the car still. I am not familiar with the inner workings of a front wheel drive tranny, as I have never personally seen one opened up yet. I would personally love to read or hear the accurate explanation on how park works on an auto tranny to clear up some of my questions on it. I would also like to know why parking a manual in 1st can cause damage to a manual transmission if the car is bumped, while parking it in reverse will not. Any truthful explanations of these phenomena will be greatly appreciated. If you can explain UFO's as well, our society will be eternally indebted to you.

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:27 am

the piece of info that you are missing is that the transmission doesn't turn each wheel individually. The trans has a single output to the final drive ratio that includes a differential. The differential is what connects the wheels to the trans. This is why the gear has nothing to do with the turning of the wheels.A differential works by allowing one wheel to spin faster than the other when making turns. There are basically 2 ways to do this: and open rear or a locking rear (posi). A locking rear uses a bunch of different ways to lock the wheels together under straight line driving but allows for limited slipage while turning. With a open rear, you can spin one wheel and the opposite wheel turns the opposite direction. This is done totally inside the differential without turning the transmission so the gear that the trans is is is meaningless. If you hold one wheel and spin the other then you are now turning the differential and the gears in the transmission so if it is in park, you won't be able to do this because the gears are locked with a pin. If you hold one wheel while turning the other and have the trans in gear or in neutral you are spinning the differential and the gears in the trans.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:37 am

quote:This was exactly the point. It is more important to save yourself (and the others on the road) than your engine. Ok, I don't disagree. But I was under the impression when an engine blows up, it blows up, as in explodes. Is my sincere lack of car knowledge become evident yet? So when an engine blows up, what really happens...

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 5:39 am

LOL. Rest assured that you are not driving around in a one ton nuclear explosive device. When we refer to "blowing an engine" as a result of overrevving it, we do not mean that the car blows up. What usually happens is that one or more piston rods will break and sometimes, I stress sometimes, the rod can be forced through the wall of the engine block, knocking a hole in it and destroying the engine. This does not mean that projectiles come flying out of the engine and slaughter all forms of life immediately present. Another common problem from overrevving the engine is that the oil breaks down because of the heat and stress on the engine and it seizes up. This can bend internal parts and ruin the cylinder walls as well. The engine would be junk in this scenario as well. So relax, redlining your Vibe's engine won't scatter your body parts half way around the world.On a related note, a friend of mine and some of his friends were hanging around a local junkyard one evening. They knew the owner so there was no trouble with what they were doing. They found an old VW Rabbit from the early 80's that was pretty smashed up. Upon further examination, they saw that most of the engine was still intact. They decided to see if it still ran. They got an old car battery and hooked it up to the VW, put some gas in it and were able to start it after a few tries. So, wanting to see what happens when an engine blows themselves, they drained out the oil from the engine and put some gas in the tank. They then restarted the engine and wedged a steel bar between the driver's seat and gas pedal to hold the pedal all the way to the floor. Keep in mind that the car did not have a rev limiter on the engine. They then walked away from the car and waited about 5 minutes to see what would happen. The car kept running and the guys got bored so they walked back to a nearby building to have a few beers. My friend told me that it took that old engine with no oil in it almost 45 minutes of running at full throttle until it blew. I think that if your throttle was stuck, you should be able to pull over and stop the car and the engine within a minute or so. It should be no problem. And have no fear of blowing yourself into oblivion because that is highly unlikely to happen.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 6:03 am

quote:What usually happens is that one or more piston rods will break and sometimes, I stress sometimes, the rod can be forced through the wall of the engine block, knocking a hole in it and destroying the engine.LOL! Thanks for the clarification.

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 11:18 am

About the only thing you have to worry about "blowing up" is a clutch and/flywheel on a manual trans. Over rev the motor and you can do some serious damage to a car. However, that's not a big problem with the Vibe since it has a rev limiter but accidently shift from 5th into 4th instead of 6th at 8200 rpm and you will scatter parts.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 11:50 am

I thought I heard somewhere that there is a safety device on there to prevent you from downshifting when the engine is revving too high? I know the auto has it, but I thought the manual did too.