pontiac rumors

[joatmon]

http://www.edmunds.com/insidel...15566Quote »Motown Buzz: Pontiac May Go RWD Across Its Line To Promote PerformanceDETROIT — Pontiac could be betting its survival on a gradual shift to rear-wheel-drive cars and a renewed emphasis on performance, although the future of the troubled brand still hangs in the balance.According to a report in industry trade publication Automotive News, General Motors executives are building a business case to revive and save the brand, similar to the strategy that GM adopted for Cadillac and is in the process of implementing at Saturn....In the meantime, several other Pontiac products will also be dropped without replacements, including the Torrent crossover (a near clone of the Chevrolet Equinox) at the end of model year 2009, and the Montana minivan later this year. The compact Vibe, which shares its platform with the Toyota Matrix, is also expected to be phased out later in the decade....

[zionzr2]

Lets have the next Vibe meet at GM/Pontiac HQ and smack them around a bit....WHY are they going to drop one of their best selling cars and one that gets the some of the best mpgs of convential gas engines.With raising fuel costs people are already dumping their SUV's and guzzlers...Toyota already cant make hybrids fast enough.....WHAT IS GM THINKING!!!I guess I can understand reorintating to be a performance brand (then why loose the Vibe GT), but with GMs world of troubles I guess I just dont think thats a wise move on GM's part. I think Pontiac could better suit themselves as a unique line of vehicles (NO CLONES). For example: VIBE (sole redesign), G6, a camero-esque performance, and a Hybrid(alt. fuel scource) of some sort.Those are me knee-jerk thoughts and $.02

[ZubenElGenubi]

Given GM's brilliant business decisions of the past decade, I'm not surprised to hear this latest test balloon.You summed it up pretty well, zionzr2. Last weekend, I hauled a bunch of 8-foot lumber from my Home Depot to my sister-in-law's house to build a fence...along with a mess of tools and hardware. And got 30-plus miles to the gallon doing it. I can think of no other vehicle that can match that (not even the Caliber). I loved the looks I was getting at the Home Depot...from big truck and SUV drivers...as I put all those 2x4's and 8-foot pickets in my car...and shut the rear hatch. Plus, it dropped another inch at least! Anyone want to help me make a commercial?

[satur9]

and yet they kill the gto .stupid idiots

[xssiv1]

It only makes sense! Gas prices go up so lets build V8 cars and trucks that get 13 mpg. And kill the cars that are selling now.

[northvibe]

well the GTO was a dissaster because of the design and it was a old car from AUS/UK they just brought to the us...lame idea all the real GTO ppl knew it was just to try to make money. they will redisign it i hear. as for the vibe yea they are dumb. the main problem is they never marketed the car. I have not once seen a commercial that said pontiac vibe super awesome gas mileage and storage room! well even a ad for that matter.... GM said they wanted to stop cross platforming well that didnt stop, the pursuit and cobalt pontiac just needs to have a bigger difference compared to other GM lines. maybe take the pursuit g5 and tubo it with the 2.0 eco instead of chevy's SC.

[rebbierae]

Meanwhile, I get this email from Pontiac:Dear Becky,***PONTIAC HAS THE PULSE ON NEW MUSIC***When it comes to fresh, young, musical artists, Pontiac is always the first on the scene. And now you can be too. With the Pontiac Garage, an online venue that brings the music world to your fingertips, it's easier than ever to view exclusive videos and live performances from breakthrough artists. You can hear bands like P.O.D., Hawthorne Heights, and OK Go within the Garage Performances tab. Stay connected to the biggest music hotspots in the country with the Pontiac Garage: http://email.pontiac.bfi0.com/...CBB20 ***CRUISING TO THE MTV MOVIE AWARDS***Who else but Pontiac would be part of the MTV Movie Awards? Tune in on June 8 to find out who'll take home the Golden Popcorn. To cast your vote for the Pontiac sponsored Best Movie at the MTV Movie Awards, please visit:http://email.pontiac.bfi0.com/...CBB20 ***THE ACCOLADES KEEP ROLLING IN***Automobile Magazine deemed it "Design of the Year." Business Week named it one of their "Best Products of 2005." Yes, it'stime to take another look at the Pontiac Solstice (Limited Availability). To learn more about the Solstice, visit:http://email.pontiac.bfi0.com/...CBB20 I realize I have no business sense and am just a simpleton, but I look to Pontiac for my VEHICLE needs--if I'm looking for music I go with iTunes or Pandora. In the face of all of their issues it seems to me they should be working harder on producing quality vehicles that people will buy, not introducing me to some hot new band. Call me crazy but that's what I think....

[BlueCrush]

I got the same e-mail. I voted for my next one to be about motorsports instead of music. I also loaded up my Vibe this past weekend. I had (10) 70lb. sand tubes that are used for car weight in winter and I actually fit in (6) 10 foot long 2x2's and was able to close the hatch. They just barely fit, while touching both the windshield and the hatch, but they did. The guy at the security gate at the lumber yard thought they were only 8' long until I told him to measure them. I just smiled and said, "I told you they were 10 footers." His words were, "Huh? I can't believe they fit in this little car."They are idiots if the Vibe gets killed off. It is their best all-round vehicle.

[Katscan]

Quote, originally posted by northvibe »...the main problem is they never marketed the car. I have not once seen a commercial that said pontiac vibe super awesome gas mileage and storage room! well even a ad for that matter.... Ya know whats funny about that? There was a Carshow a few months back here in Omaha. Basically it was a big car sales lot where all the local car dealerships brought different car models they had for sale and had and show them off a bit......I was very, very dissapointed to find out that GM brought every car...every car and truck they made there.....except the Vibe ....and they wonder why they arent selling them?

[ColonelPanic]

Poor Pontiac. Going back to RWD performance-oriented vehicles will probably do them some good. GM just needs to make certain that there are significant differences between the Pontiac vehicles and those of other divisions that are on the same platforms. Don't just wrap semi-different sheet metal around the exact same hardware you can buy from Chevrolet. Maybe give Pontiac a bit of an edge with a unique, higher output engine or something - what a concept! and *gasp!* The Vibe is going away??? I never saw that one coming. They never cared about these poor cars...

[NascarXprt]

Quote, originally posted by ZubenElGenubi »Anyone want to help me make a commercial?sure ill help ya Glenn.as for the torrent it will be moved over to GMC but GM will keep the Torrent under pontiac till 09.

[GrayFox]

Get a vibe while you still can. It'll get to a point when all those ppl with the v-8s will be sitting in there driveway and we'll still be driving around smiling

[zionzr2]

Do I hear our resale values starting to increase???

[slvrvibes]

That is a shame. I think phasing out the Vibe will be bad for GM. They do have the G6 which is helping them out a lot, but still I can't believe they plan to phase it out.

[joatmon]

Well, the article says they are "building a business case", which I assume means they are doing an anaylsis and then coming up with a proposal. If Pontiac does drop the Vibe, maybe they will tranfer the car over to Chevy, who isn't afraid to market and sell vehicles.I still think its all just rumor at this point.

[northvibe]

OH SNAPS!! we should make commercials like Zuben and nascar said!! hahahha man that would be sweet. Oh yea i had to pack and move to my new house last wed. and i fit a crap ton of stuff in my car.. a couch and freezer were some of it but those two were not in at the same time...oh yea and a desk. God i love this car.

[jake75]

I read a newspaper article (Wall St Jrl?) on auto rebate credit cards and they said that the GM Card rebate limit was $1,000 on a Vibe. Never heard that. Is this something new or is the venerable Wall St Jrl wrong?

[Jahntassa]

GM probably wants to drop the Vibe because they realized their mechanics can't understand how to fix the superior Toyota cars without using more expensive GM parts.Plus the mechanics can't understand how to fix cars that don't suck gas like a frat guy with a beer bong.

[NaNC3]

There are two versions of GM credit card. Old version (no longer available to new customers) lets you earn up to $500 per year for 7 years (up to $3500) on any eligible GM vehicle. Eligible vehicles exclude Saab, Saturn, maybe Hummer, maybe a few others. Newer GM credit card lets you earn more $ faster but then limits you to a cap depending on the vehicle. They changed so they can get you to buy a new car more often than every 7 years. Vibe cap for new credit card is $1000.

[TRDman]

Well then what's Saturn supposed to be? GM's got to choose one of the two to be its "performance brand".

[vibegtcouple]

i'm a gm tech and took toyota class for the vvt-i / vvtl-i motor you just need the right tech and it is not just the vibe they are dropping they are looking to drop pontiac in all gm is having a hard time we are not selling cars the imports are killing us . there are trying to get in the younger market put the all like honda,toyota,sub,vw,.etc. you see where i'm going if it was not for toyota pontiac will be gone sooner i had pontiac my how life from 66 gto to my vibe gt, to trans am all years and a grand am the are good cars but gm shot there self in the (removed) with taking what pontiac mines to guys like me power and looks and now they are trying to make it up before the go good bye

[Jahntassa]

Quote, originally posted by vibegtcouple »i'm a gm tech and took toyota class for the vvt-i / vvtl-i motor you just need the right tech and it is not just the vibe they are dropping they are looking to drop pontiac in all gm is having a hard time we are not selling cars the imports are killing us . there are trying to get in the younger market put the all like honda,toyota,sub,vw,.etc. you see where i'm going if it was not for toyota pontiac will be gone sooner If they were trying to do that, they should advertise the Vibe and get rid of half their big truck lines.

[binary]

Hrm... Gas prices rise to $3/gallon... people start looking for more economy.Is that so hard for GM to see? Or is it just me that sees all the Prius and Escape Hibrids around town?Com'on Pontiac... get your head out of your (removed) and pretend to know something about the "market" you're selling to.

[scherry2]

this is what you get when you have a person from financial (mr. wagoner) running an automotive business. all he can see is the $$$ end and he never even consideres the automotive part.

[GormalVibe]

agreed

[michaelgt]

I have stayed out of the discussion to date. I would love to explain the complexity in making vehicles (design, engineer, test, market) and meeting shareholder values while providing living means directly to more than 1 million people, but do not have the time. From the outside, you can make potshots. Could GM improve, definitely yes. Can they build every vehicle that each person wants, no! Did GM go wrong in producing 5 million vehicles that run on E85? Do the GM hybrid buses save more fuel than all of the Prius' combined? They now have a vision for Pontiac. The Vibe is a joint-venture vehicle. It may have a contribution-margin, it may not. So, at the end of the day, I will not persuade anybody regarding GM, but feel better for the morning.

[micbarric]

Could it be that Toyota is putting pressure on GM to discontinue the Vibe? There has been much written in the automotive press lately about Toyota needing to increase production of many of the cars/trucks they sell in North America, and I bet they would love to replace the 60,000+ Vibes NUMMI builds each year with 60K more Corollas!

[ZubenElGenubi]

michaelgt...your points are valid if you're speaking of developing a new vehicle from scratch. But the Vibe is already designed, built and proven. We're talking poor marketing here. We're the Macintosh of the automobile world.

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by micbarric »Could it be that Toyota is putting pressure on GM to discontinue the Vibe? it all has to do with the joint venture GM and Toyota have agreed to untill 08 or 09. Quote, originally posted by michaelgt » They now have a vision for Pontiac. The Vibe is a joint-venture vehicle. It may have a contribution-margin, it may not. So, at the end of the day, I will not persuade anybody regarding GM, but feel better for the morning. well said and to add to that, GM is going to do what it takes to make money no matter what, be that build more SUV's at jacked up prices or build a million aveo's to fill the gas crunch hole. and so is every other automaker. and yes I build gas guzzling trucks and I also sleep at night because I know whatever I say or think, GM or any other automaker could care less.

[michaelgt]

If, for example, GM were to commit to 60k Vibes a year from Nummi, and they could sell 60k Vibes a year without marketing them, what would GM get for marketing the Vibe? If the demand was 70k, and GM could only get 60k a year from Nummi, there would be 10k customers complaining about not being able to get a car in a timely manner (i.e. Solstice, Sky).So, should GM market the car differently? Do you have the Vibe business case? The overall strategy?I do agree that the Vibe provides a great vehicle for the GM portfolio. If the Vibe was the same vehicle with a bowtie on it, would sales be different?All questions that somebody has to figure out!

[joatmon]

last year Pontiac sold 64K vibes, this year's pace is about 75% of thatLast month Chevy sold 55K Silverado pickup trucks.Quote, originally posted by michaelgt »If the Vibe was the same vehicle with a bowtie on it, would sales be different?I don't know about a bowtie, but if you replace the arrowhead with three ovals, the cars magically become worth more.

[ColonelPanic]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »I don't know about a bowtie, but if you replace the arrowhead with three ovals, the cars magically become worth more.Yes, I have witnessed this phenomenon first hand. A 2003 Vibe, base, automatic, 74,000 miles, kinda rough shape so let's say fair condition per KBB... $6605. Take a comparably equipped de-arrowheaded slash three oval added vehicle in with the same options and in the same condition and it is magically worth $7485. Even in tip-top shape, you're talking about $8475 vs. $9550 on trade. Wow, adding ovals sure makes a difference! What went wrong with that Taurus??? It had dozens of ovals! Just the wrong kind, I suppose. lol!This is easily explained. You see, as a well-informed Toyota zealot I know once informed me, the fact that GM has their hand in the development and production of the Vibe, it is an inferior car compared to those in which it is mechanically identical. That is why I had all of the problems I had with mine. It wasn't Toyota's fault because Toyota's parts kept going bad, no no! It was because GM was buying parts from Toyota, there's where the quality degraded. I didn't get the memo, but apparently anything Toyota related that GM touches turns into a rather large pile of fecal matter instantaneously. My knockin' engine could have been installed in a Matrix or a Corolla, and if that would have happened, it would never give the owner a minute of trouble. But put that thing in a Pontiac, and look what happened! Matrix people never, ever have to worry about transmissions dying, windows shattering, paint chipping away, engines not starting, catalytic converters crapping out, etc. etc. etc, do they?... It makes sense, doesn't it?

[binary]

Quote »Pontiac could be betting its survival on a gradual shift to rear-wheel-drive cars and a renewed emphasis on performance, although the future of the troubled brand still hangs in the balance.Emphasising performance and rear-wheel-drive... I don't see the market for that type of vehicle in a $4/gal fuel world. I'm not taking potshots at Pontiac, but if they think they can suddenly fix all their problems by making performance vehicles... the market just doesn't look good in that direction. I've always appreciated their styling and performance - but now I need to be able to make my $32 tank full last a bit longer.And last but not least, I don't want Pontiac to be the next Oldsmobile...

[ZubenElGenubi]

"Adding ovals" isn't the reason that resale values are higher for the Matrix over the Vibe. The real reason is that the Vibe could be purchased for much less than its MSRP - and below that for the Matrix - because of incentives that GM offered that Toyota wouldn't. The 2003 Base Matrix had an MSRP of $14,670; the 2003 Base Vibe was $16,900. But to have similarly-equipped vehicles, one had to pay extra for cruise control, fog lamps, a roof rack, for example. And the best you could get for rebates was $500 from Toyota. And as we've seen in previous posts here, GM could do much better.When I bought my Vibe in 2004, I got $7000 off the MSRP...there was no way I'd get even half that from Toyota. You won't see me weeping about the trade-in value of my car; the cost of ownership was reduced at the purchase.Even today, a base 2006 Matrix plus Cruise Control & fog lamps has an MSRP of $17,645. A base 2006 Pontiac Vibe plus the power package has an MSRP of $17,840. BUT...GM has $1,000 in Cash Allowances, so the adjusted MSRP is only $16,840. So, yeah, the Vibe has a lower resale value, but if you paid less to start, what does it matter? Besides, the net present value of a higher resale value after 4-5 years, adjusted for inflation, doesn't mean all that much, does it?

[Mathias]

Regarding resale:Right now, anything that gets 30+ mpg has pretty darned good resale. I bought my car for $15,500 on Halloween 2003 -- 2004 base stick pwr monotone -- and knocked another $2,500 off via the GM Card (praise be!).I just sold it a month ago for $11,500, and that's in MI, where selling a 5sp car is like selling the flu. IOW, $1,500 depreciation for 2.5 years and 27k miles... I will certainly be buying another one.As far as the 3 ovals: Not everybody understands the connection between the Vibe and the Matrix; the Chevy Prizm and the Corolla, the Geo Prizm and the Corolla, or the Chevy Nova and the Corolla... gee, I wonder why that is.OF COURSE the Toyota commands more money in the used market. Ho w could it be different? Toyota has a most distinguished and well-deserved track record for reliability. Pontiac doesn't. How could that not make a difference, even when the car is identical? At the auctions, the difference is around $1,500, I believe. I checked it out at one time or another. Just stating the facts here, btw, I don't think Toyota walks on water... but as far as reliability, they're tops, and people really want that.I'm afraid I believe that the Vibe will disappear. I've been trying to find any credible rumour about the redesign... the '08 should be at dealerships a year from now, so they'd know exactly what to build by now... and I haven't heard as much as a peep... yeah, my guess is they're discontinuing it.I'll buy one of the last ones, drive it awhile, and ditch it again... then I'll probably cut up my GM Card and get the Subaru reward card. Too bad; it was fun while it lasted...-Mathias

[Mathias]

"I would love to explain the complexity in making vehicles (design, engineer, test, market) and meeting shareholder values while providing living means directly to more than 1 million people, but do not have the time."I don't think the negative things being said about Pontiac or GM stem from a lack of understanding how the car business works. Re-read your statement 3 times and tell me it doesn't sound pompous and condescening.GM has driven their market share from over 60% 30 years ago to around 20% now -- depending on how you count -- and they've been patting themselves on the back the entire time.Their shareholder value, as you put it, is questionable, and they're in deep trouble. As far as Pontiac going RWD and Performance; that'll fly in Lansing, Flint, and Grand Rapids, but I doubt it'll work across the country. The one percent of car buyers who are looking for those cars already have a few choices... BMW, Lexus GS300, Infiniti... if Pontiac cannot find a way to appeal to mainstream buyers, I doubt they will survive.Killing the Vibe is a side issue; it bothers me personally, but the Vibe is probably neither here nor there for the Pontiac bottom line and marketability. -Mathias

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by Mathias »Killing the Vibe is a side issue; it bothers me personally, but the Vibe is probably neither here nor there for the Pontiac bottom line and marketability. I agree. I really like the car, and everyone who's been in mine has lots of praise for it. My brother bought one after a road trip in mine.But every Vibe sold is another engine the toyota factory makes, another transmission the toyota tranny factory makes, and more job security for people at NUMMI, who make the once car for MG and a lot more cars/trucks for Toyota. GM needs to keep the Vibe, but use a powertrain from their own suppliers, and build it in their own factory, to get the most benefit of including it in their product line. I'm sure they make some amount of profit off them, but its probably more important to them to get people into the showroom, and perhaps build some brand awareness/loyalty.

[joatmon]

more rumors. If something like this happens, then the Vibe as a joint GM/Toyota venture would probably have a lot longer life.http://www.businessweek.com/bw...+newsQuote » Will Toyota Make a Play for GM?Toyota may be considering foiling Renault-Nissan by making a surprise move to hook up with GMCould Renault and Nissan have a competitor in their effort to form an alliance with General Motors? Top executives at Toyota Motor are mulling their own overture to GM to head off rival Nissan from forging an alliance that could help the Japanese-French car company, according to people with knowledge of the Japanese auto maker's plans.General Motors' (GM) Chairman and CEO G. Richard Wagoner Jr. met with Carlos Ghosn, chief executive of Nissan (NSANY) and Renault, in Detroit on Friday, July 14, to discuss how the three auto companies might pursue an alliance.Both companies issued a joint statement saying they will take about 90 days to explore potential benefits of an alliance.If Wagoner decides to move ahead, GM and Renault-Nissan could join together in an alliance that would give Ghosn's company a 20% stake in GM. The allied companies could then share engines, platforms, and other parts. If Wagoner doesn't want to sell Renault an equity stake, the three auto giants could just form some joint ventures and still combine their engineering capabilities.BACKLASH FEARS. Sources close to Toyota (TM) say the company is considering its options and looking at different opportunities that they could propose to GM. ""Toyota has no interest in seeing an alliance like this [linking Renault, Nissan and GM] take place," said an executive who asked not to be identified.One Toyota source says the company has "war-gamed" a way to assist GM. Despite Toyota's juggernaut-like growth, which has resulted in the company increasing its U.S. market share from 9.3% in 2000 to 14.6% today and earning in excess of $10 billion a year the past three years, the company fears the kind of social and political backlash that could come if General Motors falls apart.Whether Toyota actually makes a bid remains to be seen. Several GM executives have said the company has heard nothing from the Japanese auto maker. And Toyota spokesman Steven Curtis said any talk of an offer from the company is "pure speculation."WASHINGTON TESTIMONY. One source familiar with Toyota's strategy said that an equity tie-up like the one GM investor Kirk Kerkorian has proposed between GM and Renault-Nissan would be unlikely. "It's not in their culture," he said.General Motors and Toyota have long worked together, albeit in a limited way. The two jointly operate an assembly plant in Freemont, Calif., where the Toyota Corolla, Matrix, and Tacoma pickup are assembled under the same roof as the Pontiac Vibe.Wagoner was in Washington D.C. on July 13 testifying before Congress about health-care policy. In a gathering of reporters, he hinted that a deal with another auto maker besides Renault-Nissan was possible, according to Automotive News. "Could other things arise?" he said to Automotive News. "Sure, they could happen any time, but nothing else I can talk to you about today." Wagoner also said that a possible, even desirable, outcome could be no deal at all.Toyota's interest in GM could make for a desirable solution for the GM chairman. GM executives see the Renault-Nissan alliance as a play by Kerkorian—GM's fourth-largest shareholder, with 10% of the stock—to get Carlos Ghosn into the driver's seat at GM.DUBIOUS SYNERGIES. That's one reason executives have been skeptical about a tie-up with Renault-Nissan. Other executives have said that they aren't sure the synergies would really be worth selling 20% of the company. Nor would they solve some of GM's long-term issues, such as rising health-care costs, falling market share, and the company's battle to buoy sport-utility vehicle profits while gasoline prices rise.Still, even if GM and Renault-Nissan strike some kind of alliance, Ghosn may not be seeking to replace Wagoner. In an interview on Capitol Hill on July 13 Ghosn told Bloomberg "I don't need it," in reference to the top job at GM.Given the companies' history, it is possible that Toyota could make GM an offer of expanding joint ventures, and even sharing technology and vehicle development, without buying an equity stake. While other auto makers have merged or struck alliances that involve equity swaps, Toyota has steered clear of such deals. GM, meanwhile, has recently been unwinding several mostly unsuccessful joint ventures it struck with Fiat (FIA), Suzuki, Isuzu, and Fuji Heavy Industries.Discussions of an alliance with Nissan-Renault were sparked by Kerkorian's Tracinda and its GM board representative Jerome B. York. Tracinda has been trying to pressure Wagoner to move faster in restructuring the auto maker. The billionaire's company publicly announced on June 30 that the Japanese-French auto maker was interested in pursuing alliance talks.Wagoner then formed an internal committee to study the merits of the proposal.If Toyota is serious, Wagoner will have another one to study pretty soon.

[isaaclud]

joat.....if Pontiac were to say......throw the ECOTEC in the Vibe, I have a feeling NOBODY would buy the thing anymore....I think people are getting this thing based on the TOYOTA essence(if you will) alone. That's it. Taking myself for example, I swore I would NEVER own another domestic vehicle.....but I bought a VIBEand therefore GM lured me back.....how?.....by this GM car with TOYOTA intestines.....To make the VIBE all Pontiac would dead the sales IMOThis would invalidate GM making more money from these cars...feedback please?(BTW, I really like this conversation)

[joatmon]

I don't know I bought the car for the MPGs, US brand, and interior room, didn't really care as much about who made the engine. A plus for the Vibe that the engine is made in WVHere's another interesting articlehttp://www.clickondetroit.com/....htmlQuote »Report: Combined GM, Ford Would Emerge StrongerWall Street Journal Offers Own Solution To America's Auto ProblemPOSTED: 6:53 pm EDT July 17, 2006After two weeks of contemplating an alliance between General Motors, Renault and Nissan, the companies paused for 90 days to consider their futures.The Wall Street Journal has offered its own solution to America's auto problem by combining the "big two" and creating the "big one," according to Local 4 business editor Rod Meloni."Now is the time for their conservative minds to consider something truly transformational: a merger of General Motors and Ford Motor," the paper reported.On the upside, the Journal said a combined Ford and GM would emerge stronger and more able to attack both sets of legacy costs. Together they will attain a staggering 40 percent of North American market share, Local 4 reported.And by cutting brands such as Buick, Pontiac and Mercury, it will allow the major company to focus on better-selling brands, the station reported.However, there is an admitted downside: a possible United Auto Workers union strike in opposition and the costs associated with buying out dealers and the lawsuits that would invariably accompany closing dealerships, Local 4 reported.UAW President Ron Gettelfinger himself seemed taken aback by the idea."As you know any merger is a very complex deal, takes a lot of work and a lot of effort. I hadn't even thought about it and it's the first I've heard about it," said Gettelfinger."This is one of those instances where 1 plus 1 equals 1.2."AMCI auto analyst Jim Sanfilippo said this is the kind of idea generated by people who neither drive cars nor pay attention to the business."Gee why doesn't the last-place team buy a couple of Yankees and everything would be fine. It's just not a realistic scenario," said Sanfilippo.Sanfilippo said the only true way for the American auto industry to survive and prosper is for American leadership to step up, roll up its sleeves and solve the problems in their executives' suite and on their own plant floors, and not look outside for help.

[isaaclud]

^ ok, to complete this little debate, we would need to know which of us represents themajority of people buying the VIBE.....1.) you, mpg, American manu, utility2.) me, NON-AMERICAN manu. input/internals,utility, If I am right and GM would start putting the ECOTEC in the Vibe, sales would wither overnight...if you are right, it wouldnt matter to peopleand Vibes would still be sold and GM wouldpull in more profit....interesting thoughts

[isaaclud]

^ silver, I know the ECOTEC is a pretty good motor,(I mean damn it's been around since being the QUAD 4.....it better be bullet-proof by now...)but point-blank the whole Celica/Corolla factoris what I think is having people check theseout in the dealer lots........and Yes, I see your point about VIBE salescurrently, but I would think they would dropeven further.....

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »I bought the car for the MPGs, US brand, and interior room, didn't really care as much about who made the engine. I bought mine kind of like Joatmon. MPG, US brand, and I thought it was a sharp looking car with room. I didn't even know about the Toyota components till I came to this site. I just wanted a vehicle built in America, by the UAW.

[jake75]

I would have to say that the Toyota heritage was a major factor in buying the Vibe, but for what I paid in Jan. 2003 I probably would have bought the Vibe due to its functional design even if it had a GM engine and transmission. Whether or not the Vibe is around when I am ready to replace my Vibe (only 21,500 miles at 3.5 years) is not critical as there are a lot of good choices today and more coming. I still use my GM Card to the tune of $10,000 a year to get the $500 rebate so in a couple of years that will be worth $2,000. I'd only get $100 on my 1% cash rebate card so the risk/reward ratio is favorable as it takes 7 years for reward to expire. I wonder who pays for that - I suspect it is Household Bank, now owned by HSBC, a British company.

[falderal]

Put me in the Toyota internals camp... maybe this should be a poll?

[isaaclud]

^ Yes those results would be interesting to see....I was hesitant to even sign for this carbecause it was a GM.....in fact, everytime I getsweats about the whole "GM" quality fact,I pop the hood and stare at the VVT-i emblemon the motor and breathe a sigh of relief...yeah buddy!

[joatmon]

Looking at the poll it seems like the reputed Toyota reliability was a factor for a number of people. I wish their trannies were more reliable but even so, when this one dies, I will probably look again and buy the best mpg in a US brand car again. You guys may get your wish and the US brands will all go out of business by then. One good thing for me is that so many people are fickle about cars, trade them every year or two. By the time my Vibe dies, there will be lots of low mileage used ones out there, even if they don't make new ones anymore.anyway, seems like everybody's got a plan to kill off Pontiac. Probably makes good business sense, just hard to watch it go. been a long ride, lot of history. I didn't miss Oldsmobile when it went. At one point I had a 73 Cutlass, but that car never inspired me to brand sentimentality.

[ZubenElGenubi]

+1 on Toyota engineering / Pontiac Styling (as I mentioned in that poll).I completely empathize with you, isaaclud.However, given that the Pontiac brand may be nearing its final days, the bigger question might be "What vehicle(s) will succeed the Matrix/Vibe platform in the next few years?" Besides the Caliber, I don't see any American manufacturers proposing anything.

[ColonelPanic]

Quote, originally posted by isaaclud »joat.....if Pontiac were to say......throw the ECOTEC in the Vibe, I have a feeling NOBODY would buy the thing anymore....Yeah, except for me! That's the only Vibe I'd buy again.

[ramenboy...]

Quote, originally posted by isaaclud »^ silver, I know the ECOTEC is a pretty good motor,(I mean damn it's been around since being the QUAD 4.....it better be bullet-proof by now...)but point-blank the whole Celica/Corolla factoris what I think is having people check theseout in the dealer lots........and Yes, I see your point about VIBE salescurrently, but I would think they would dropeven further.....i don't know...i think pontiac killed their vibe advertising, seeing that their relationship with toyota may be through soon. maybe if they DID continue vibe production on their own and put in the ecotec they'd bump up advertising. as to to the poll, there was a matrix and the vibe on the lot when i iwas looking for a car. i remembered reading that the two cars were twins underneath, but i liked the vibe styling better.