Typical life of a hydraulic clutch? GT

[ALi3N]

I am actually amazed at how light such a large car is. But after seeing the extensive damage done to my car in the low-speed impact i was involved in http://www.cardomain.com/id/dj_vip3r (car wreck pics) i kinda understand why. But on the other side of that i have seen the built-in safety crash zones in action, so even though our cars crumble in a collision, they crumble in a planned way to protect us. hence the NHTSA's 5 star rating.

[Psychobroker]

Quote, originally posted by REBELGAS2000 »27k on my clutch and it took a dump! I too smelled clutch, especially when backing into my driveway. I found out that this is the same clutch that Toyota has been using on the Geo Metro since 1992 so it makes me wonder if the Vibe/ matrix are a little heavy for it. My solution was the Center Force Dual Friction. I got upset and thought bought a little too far into racing equipment, but I couldn’t be happier with the way this clutch behaves! A perfect compromise, if you drive soft and the clutch is soft, if you slam it hard in second you feel it. To boot… my 2003 GT is getting on average 2 miles per gallon BETTER, no matter how I drive it! Who would have guess that my albatross was my clutch in this car. This car is lucky I like it so much because I am on a first name basis with me service writer at the dealer.Is this the same clutch? http://www.dualfriction.com/pr...10000Where did you find your kit and how much did it cost? From your description of how it feels, this is exactly what I am looking for. If you can provide a link to where you bought it, that'd be awesome.Sitting at 29,975, I am trying to anticipate a clutch replacement and not have to be pigeonholed into settling for a stock clutch. I was contemplating an ACT kit, but have no idea which one to invest in...would this Clutchmaster Dual Friction kit be comperable or better?I am looking for street performance and durability, not track usage. I have thought about a turbo kit down the line, maybe within the next 1-2 years, so I'd want a kit that's rated at 250hp/tq minimum. Thanks for your advise!

[MadBill]

Quote, originally posted by REBELGAS2000 » I found out that this is the same clutch that Toyota has been using on the Geo Metro since 1992 ....Errr.. That's doubtful, because Toyota didn't build the Metro. It was a Suzuki design, sold also as the Suzuki Swift.

[goodvibe]

Maybe the GEO prism? 2mpg from a clutch? Interesting.

[Raivis]

can someone please inform me of the progress of trying to get gm to recall the 03 clutch i too have been smelling clutch for some time now i only have about 33k on mine........and i have been driving stick for about 5 years not that long but long enough to know how to drive without burning or riding the clutch

[meohman1]

Here's something to think about when talking about the clutch - driver's seat position.I have an '03 Vibe GT. I drive it 99% of the time. The other day, my fiance drove it. She had moved the seat up a notch. I drove it for a while before it dawned on me that she had moved it. I noticed that the clutch felt different before I finally figured out the seat was up a notch. I put the seat back, and all is well.When I first got the car I experimented with seat position to get the best distance for my leg to keep from riding the clutch and the be able to fully engage and disengage the clutch.This might be obvious to most drivers, but maybe it will help others.Also for downshifting to make a turn, I usually downshift to third (no lower) for a rolling right turn, holding the clutch in until the turn is complete, then when I let it out it is smooth and synced with the engine. Downshifting to second causes the car to jump if you just let out the clutch without giving it some gas before. As for stop and go traffic, if I can get to a crawl in second or third, I will leave it there. First is so low that the car wants to buck and jump, and second is somewaht the same, but not as bad.I drove a diesel concrete mixer for a while, and basically, you don't use the clutch on diesel rigs with multi-gears, there are no syncros.But I always use the clutch with the GT. Also no need to double-clutch as the syncros do the work.It's pretty flat here in Southeast Louisiana, but there are a few spots in my daily driving that require a stop-start on a grade. I don't use the hand brake - just let the clutch out till it starts to engage, then very very quickly move your right foot from the brake to the gas and go. You have to be careful of some other driver getting to close to your rear end when you are stopped on an uphill grade, because if you aren't fast enough with the clutch and the brake/gas feet, you might roll back a couple inches and make contact. And most emabarrasing, you might even stall the engine. Then you get the horns while you set the brake and re-start the car.When I was 17 (many many moons ago in 1971), I had a Datsun (Nissan) 510 with a standard. Over the life of that car, I went through 3 clutches. But, that was a rear wheel drive, so I could just go to the auto parts and get the clutch, pressure plate, and throw-out bearing, come home, drop the transmission, and change it out in about 4 hours. That's not gonna happen with the GT's FWD configuration.Ah, ya gotta love technology - the hurrier I go, the behinder I get!

[iinan]

I have an o4 gt, and I do have the burning smell as well...

[freestyle]

i have a 03 gt and i had to replace the whole clutch fly wheel and all... had a vibration in my steering wheel after i got my rims put on so i took it back to complain and they test drove it and i saw them pushing my vibe into the shop and they said it wasnt caused from the rims, they said my clutch was on threads... BS i had it only a couple months prior to that it had under 20,000 miles on it... i bought it with 3miles on it.... does that sound right??? plus i am a VERY easy driver, i dont grind gears nor slip on the clutch.... do you think it was a defect or was i scammed with $1,200 of damage because they did it?

[ZPrime]

Just to help pass some info along from Matrixowners and newcelica.org...The best "stock replacement" setup from RPS would be the RPS "sport" pressure plate and "street" clutch disc. http://www.mvpmotorsports.com has it for a pretty good price.The popular eBay clutch is an Exedy - they make a pretty nice clutch as well. The seller on eBay is "Gripforce", and it's around $120 for the Exedy clutch plus shipping.On a stock Vibe GT/Matrix XRS, either of these clutches is more than you'll ever need, power-handling-wise. The RPS combo is rated for something like 230 ft-lb of torque -- the car only makes 130-ish stock! You don't want a puck clutch unless you're racing - they are very hash for dailing driving.Personally I'm looking at the RPS only because I don't know how much I trust a $130 Exedy, although people on newcelica.org seem to think highly of it. There are *more* posts recommending RPS though...My Matrix XRS is giving me issues with just under 21,000 miles. My dealer has told me that they will cover replacement under warranty as long as they find no signs of abuse, but they don't want to replace it with an aftermarket clutch for me. I don't quite see the point of replacing a clutch that's only good for ~20k mi. with another of the same and having it go out in another 1.5 years...

[Psychobroker]

Very good info there ZPrime...I was leaning towards Exedy's Stage 1 w/ organic disc, which can handle up to 190ish fl/lb, and gripforce sells them for a little less than the mvpmotorsport's RPS clutch (I think it was $249 + s/h)...how do you think these two stack up? If you're in the L.A. area, you can just pick up the Exedy Stage 2 from gripforce on the cheap, no s&h and maybe no taxes if paying by cash NM: I see you're in Ohio...EDIT: I meant Stage 1, not 2...their Stage 2 has a 3-puck disc, which is supposedly very streetable.

[TrojanGT]

Hi all!I'm so glad you folks are posting so much great-looking, specific info on non-OEM clutches. It has been a while since I checked in here, and was I surprised to see this discussion still going, but then again, I was checking because it seems like my clutch is probably going to have to be uh, fixed, in the next few months or so. To recap history, the dealer grudgingly (after a little GM intereference, thanks Mr. Smith) replaced the first clutch at a little past 30k for us, but we're at 66k now and I'm beginning to sense that we're near the end of the line for this clutch. Better, but still not really acceptable lifespan.My favorite mechanic up and sold his business, so I think I'll print off some of this wonderful info and see what my new guy can do...So who's got the record on the most miles/clutches around here? JK!Mahalo,Dawn

[meohman1]

I have a 2003 Vibe GT with 27k miles. I just replaced the original tires (Contis) with Michelin Hydroedge - these are rated for 85k miles. My clutch is working fine. Hopefully, it hangs in there for a while. Hopefully, I am as lucky as my boss - he drives a 2002 VW GTi stick. He races it on the weekends. He has 120k miles on his ride - still has the original clutch and he has experienced no mechanical malfunctions with anythging in the drive train.

[johnsoax]

I've got over 45k now on my 03 GT and my clutch is still going strong. I had the smell at first, and now get it only when I ride the clutch. Still have the original Goodyear Eagles as well.

[wompa70]

I have 47000 miles on my 03 GT. It's getting the clutch replaced right now. Took it to the Pontiac dealer hoping it would just need an adjustment or something else covered under warranty. The warranty specifically states that the clutch assembly is NOT covered. Won't get in to the price difference between the Pontiac dealer and the Chevy dealer who IS doing the work.

[nitrovibegt]

I have an 04 Vibe GT. I have been having clutch issues for about 10k miles. I have 33k miles now. The worst part. I work for the dealer. I sold myself the car. I love the car, hate the clutch. I have gone all way to the top, Regional Service Rep. He basically told me to pound salt. I will be replacing the clutch soon with a perfomance one that can handle all the mods Ive made and the abuse it takes.

[21Rouge]

Quote, originally posted by nitrovibegt »I have an 04 Vibe GT. I have been having clutch issues for about 10k miles. I have 33k miles now. The worst part. I work for the dealer. I sold myself the car. I love the car, hate the clutch. I have gone all way to the top, Regional Service Rep. He basically told me to pound salt. I will be replacing the clutch soon with a perfomance one that can handle all the mods Ive made and the abuse it takes. It seems that cyberjunkie (base Vibe) getting his clutched replaced under warranty was very fortunate.Here is the thread: http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=16314

[george]

Sounds like you guys need to learn how to drive a low torque 6 speed clutch car i have 67,000 miles on mine and still pulls hard and leaves nice 03 GT

[Jahntassa]

I'm starting to wonder if it's just some of the clutches.. I could burn my stock clutch in a heartbeat, even when it was new! But the replacement clutch I haven't been able to slip yet..Maybe they used crap clutches up to a certain point and switched?

[JustinVGT]

Yeah, I have over 47k miles on mine and it is still going well. I also ordered my Vibe in February of 2002, so it's one of the first. It does slip easily, but I rarely ever do cause it to slip. When other people drive my car (rarely happens), they often slip the clutch and create quite the burning smell. I'm just careful with my clutch, treat it as an on/off switch mostly and hope it will continue to last.

[DansGT]

Hey All New to Site. I have an 03 VibeGT Bought in May 04. It was a base GT with the Delphi Nav system, an ordering mistake obviously with no power anything (except mirrors) or sunroof. Got a good deal From Key Pontiac for 18.5k. anyhow im bought it with 600 miles and im at 33k now, no clutch issue. very rare burning smell. I hammer the $#!T out of my trannny and it responds fine. I have had to have a linkage adjustment, 3rd gear was not right. Also i have a squeaky shifter & clutch. I get popping noises from the brakes and sometimes a clunk during accleration round a turn. Minor stuff. Also notice 2nd gear feels like mush in cold weather. Ill keep everyone posted if my clutch starts to go.

[Thxalot]

There are a number of factors that go into the life of a clutch besides driving style.For example, if you live in Nebraska, you aren't going to be making to many hill starts, right? Also, how many other people drive your car? You can't control other people's revs. One other thing I've noticed is the AC compressor. When the AC is on, I have to pump a few more revs into each start, because the compressor saps just enough extra ft-lbs to notice it.At the end of the day, this 2zz motor doesn't have enough torque in the 500-1800 RPM range to support the tall final drive ratio that we have. Celica GTS's have lower gearing and less trouble with the weak torque output of this motor.I'm sure everyone has noticed that the newer 170HP versions of this motor have fewer clutch problems. Toyota the engine map for slightly better low end torque.I loaned my GT to a friend, and he smoked the clutch. Can't even get the car rolling now. Gonna have to tow it to a mechanic. Just over 43k miles - worst clutch I've ever owned. Thinking about going with the CenterForce. Any comments?-Burt

[kylew]

Well, I'm glad I'm not alone, but sorry to be here nonetheless. I've been experiencing some slippage in my clutch (Vibe GT 2003), and I took it into my local dealer (Ernie Miller Pontiac). They say they think the problem is in the clutch. I'm currently at 34,400 miles. I called the GM customer service 800 number to see if they have a solution in place for this problem. They said they had no recall or special instructions for early clutch failures. My case has been forwarded on to my regional customer service manager to see if GM/Pontiac will pick up the tab. The dealership estimated it would cost about $1100.Please let me know if I should be contacting someone else. Thanks for everyone's very helpful information. I think without this site and these posts I wouldn't have been able to get the time of day from Pontiac customer service.

[Jahntassa]

Quote, originally posted by kylew »Please let me know if I should be contacting someone else. Thanks for everyone's very helpful information. I think without this site and these posts I wouldn't have been able to get the time of day from Pontiac customer service.Nope, you're probably as screwed as I was. GM doesn't want anything to do with the fact that quite a few clutches on the GTs were bad..EDIT: Well, looking over on MO.com, they have about 30-40 people with the same issue. I was really tempted to look into filing a class-action against Toyota / GM (I think we have fairly pressing evidence, considering the three shops I called that asked why I was on my THIRD clutch in 38k), but I definitely don't have the money to drop in case we lose.Does ANYONE have any lawyer friends that might have an opinion on this? I mean, c'mon. It's obvious the damn cars have issues, and heck, it could be safety if I can't freaking get up a hill or get the car moving..I dunno.

[trocar]

Add another one to the list, Car is giong in Monday morning of a new clutch set up.77km of normal daily drivin

[MadBill]

Hi trocar!I though maybe you'd fallen off the planet. (of course, I haven't posted much recently either...)

[Alansd]

Hello all- I'm new to this site as we just bought a super nice 03 Vibe GT. Abyss with 18" wheels,& nice exhaust upgrade.I noticed last night a clutch smell after I pulled into the garage. read all this thread and wondered about the post way back regarding too much hydraulic fluid in the cylinder. anyone pulled some out.. and did it help? If so how much did you pull out?My 78 911 has 110000 on it, never had a clutch problem, in fact I have had at least fifteen sports and muscle cars over the yrs from Vettes to GTO, to Jags and Triumphs, etc and never, ever replaced a clutch.Hope this won't be the first time.

[Alansd]

No replies...so is there anything to the clutch fluid level needing to be lower? Anyone?

[03VibeGT6Spd]

The clutch fluid comes from the brakes master cylinder res.So that doesnt make to much sence to me.

[trocar]

My centerforce clutch is finally seating properly, has taken this long for breaking, and HOLY improvement BATMANMADBILL - missing the regular updates on your car, can you start a new thread, with up to date pics and a run down of the "projects"

[MadBill]

Hi Trocar! See what happens: You bow out for a year or so, and suddenly you're, over 13,000 posts behing Silver! (o:bHaven't been up to much with Big Boots, just rolling along. I've got over 40,000 klicks on those ancient cast-iron Firehawks and when I finally went to rotate them this spring for the first time, could barely tell which had been on the front. (Must be all the surface area...)

[damronjr]

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 »Welcome Back! No kidding, back from the dead! lol

[MadBill]

No pun intended, Tro... (o:b (o:b

[johnsoax]

I haven't had any trouble with my 03 GT Clutch, and I have about 59.5k miles .Been pulling a fully loaded trailer 300+ miles everyweekend for the past few weeks too (moving from Chicago to NW Ohio).

[AKLGT]

my 03 clutch was starting to go when i traded it in. the new owner already replaced it, about 36K miles.

[Dezz1]

Well guys its about that time for me. I am currently at 66000 miles and I felt slipping when I got down on it from a stop. I am sure I can get another 5000 miles out of it But I believe I need to go ahead and get it replaced now. I need some help. I am planning on modifying (minor) within the next two years. What is the best clutch and pressure plate to purchase for everyday driving plus weekend fun? Should I get a new flywheel and if so would a light flywheel make a difference? Ultimately, I am looking for more low end torque and quicker acceleration. Yes, price is an issue, I need the most and best bang for the buck. Thanks to all who can help.

[TrojanGT]

Hi: Well, this time it's for real. I'm up for the second clutch, and the sooner the better. I've been talking to my independent mechanic (HATE dealers!) and he wants me to find and buy whatever it is we want, since it isn't stock. He's trying to research too, but as English isn't his primary language, and the Vibe GT isn't exactly your most popular car (with thieves at least, which is just fine with me!), it oddly enough makes sense.I'm here in Southern California, so I'm hoping that someplace somebody sells a good heavy duty, won't-get-fried clutch out here. Any suggestions? And what all makes up the "clutch" when I have to buy these parts - what's different or will need to be purchased to upgrade (in general) from the stock transmission parts already on the GT?Oh yeah, mine is a first year Vibe GT, and we coerced the dealership we bought it from (with a little pressure from friends in Detroit) to replace the original clutch at something under 30k miles. We're now at almost 85k. Semi-respectable, but still could be better!Mahalo for your wise counsel, people!Dawn

[spyder]

Hey. There are lots of places to buy a good clutch for our Vibe GT's but you wanna make sure you get a good one. You should have a look on some posts on http://www.matrixowners.com as there is a lot more info on differenct clutches. So far I have read great things about the RPS street series clutches and if you plan on increasing your HP you may want to get the MAX series. ACT is another good clutch. Now when you change your clutch make sure you have or get a new throw out bearing, alignment tool and I know 8 new bolts are also required (I forgot the name of them).I hope this helps...I am at 75,000km on the same clutch and so far it is not slipping. It isn't the best clutch on pickup but it still works.Cheers!Spyder

[AKLGT]

yes, the ACT clutch comes highly recommended by several people who've killed their clutches, including the TRD clutch. he says the ACT is much better and stronger than the TRD one. go figure.... good luck!

[dbiehl1979]

Well, I hate to say this, but i guess that i got a good clutch in my 03 gt. 90036 miles and not one slip. I only got the fried smell a couple of times. I dont really baby it that much, sometimes I drive like a sane person, sometimes I drive the car like I stole it. Now if I could track down some noises that I have been noticing. (very long post to come this weekend).

[TrojanGT]

Looking for more opinions: Last night a friend and I spent some time online looking and decided to go wtih Gripforce and the Exedy clutch - this was the one they had on eBayEXEDY 03-05 TOYOTA MATRIX XRS / VIBE GT 2ZZ-GE CLUTCH 1.8L 6 spd, GENUINE EXEDY Clutch Kit - Made in Japan !!Item number: 150015096719It was only in Brea, so I went and picked it up. Now that I'm reading again, with sleep and coffee in me, I'm wondering if I made the wrong choice. The price was too attractive, and I bit really fast. (you have to understand that of our three cars, only one is truly operable right now, and we really need two to get by, so I am a bit pressed).Reality check: I don't need or demand high performance. I just want some durability. I don't want fried clutch all of the time. Yes, I would have probably actually liked a racing clutch (harder feel) after talking to the guy at Gripforce, but will settle for dependable in a heartbeat for this price. Hopefully we won't have to replace the flywheel - that is expensive!So, with these parameters, any input, folks? Mahalo,Dawn

[DopeVibeGT]

Quote, originally posted by trdvibe »yes, the ACT clutch comes highly recommended by several people who've killed their clutches, including the TRD clutch. he says the ACT is much better and stronger than the TRD one. go figure.... good luck!Yes, I have the ATC clutch waiting for my stock clutch to go out. But, it has 67K miles on it and still kicking.

[Psychobroker]

Quote, originally posted by TrojanGT »Looking for more opinions: Last night a friend and I spent some time online looking and decided to go wtih Gripforce and the Exedy clutch - this was the one they had on eBayEXEDY 03-05 TOYOTA MATRIX XRS / VIBE GT 2ZZ-GE CLUTCH 1.8L 6 spd, GENUINE EXEDY Clutch Kit - Made in Japan !!Item number: 150015096719It was only in Brea, so I went and picked it up. Now that I'm reading again, with sleep and coffee in me, I'm wondering if I made the wrong choice. The price was too attractive, and I bit really fast. (you have to understand that of our three cars, only one is truly operable right now, and we really need two to get by, so I am a bit pressed).Reality check: I don't need or demand high performance. I just want some durability. I don't want fried clutch all of the time. Yes, I would have probably actually liked a racing clutch (harder feel) after talking to the guy at Gripforce, but will settle for dependable in a heartbeat for this price. Hopefully we won't have to replace the flywheel - that is expensive!So, with these parameters, any input, folks? Mahalo,DawnHi Dawn, if that's Exedy's OEM version, it will serve you fine (stronger, slightly better gripping force than stock). if it's their Stage 1, that's even better Gripforce/Exedy is a GOOD clutch, so don't worry about it.I went with an RPS Turboclutch (street), which is very good as well, but at the time of purchase, I was *considering* a future turbo. As it stands now, I won't be doing anything like that, but I held onto the RPS anyway (was sitting in my living room for a year waiting for the stocker to die).Anyway, I had mine installed by Culver City Transmission for ~$495 (including tranny fluid change w/ AMSoil MTG lube). Rick's awesome, and they've been there forever (1950s?). If you need a respectable shop, I highly recommend them. Tell them Christian and his crazy blue Vibe sent you .Good luck! Oh, don't forget to resurface that flywheel

[TrojanGT]

Hey, thanks!No, it doesn't seem to be the Stage 1, but even a little grippier (and a lot less fried) will do for me - I think it is Exedy's OEM replacement.Thanks for the recommendation. I'm trying to be loyal to a nice guy who had primarily been the one working on my cars under my old mechanic (before he up and sold his business, dang it), and we actually took the Vibe in this morning. Don't know quite when it will be ready, but he doesn't think he'll need to replace the flywheel (whew!) We made a real point of NOT driving this one into the ground.Sad thing - our Previa was there, all ripped open with wires everywhere, as they try to determine what the electrical issues are now. He set us loose, in a moment of bad judgement, with an aging AC compressor which apparently had bad wiring, and just totally fried out our engine wiring (when the AC wires shorted, the engine wires took the hit and fried). Now we really need this Vibe back, because there's no longer any guarantees that the Previa will be able to be revived, unless we want to do a full restoration and rewiring. Yikes. We love that car, but there are limits... We'd been told the Previa had a Lexus engine, maybe? We only know that it ran and ran and ran, over 325,000 miles and still thumping until it sparked out. And to add insult to injury, when we dropped off the Vibe, I noticed the windshield on the Previa has broken. When it rains...So, the upbeat is that if this boy doesn't take better care of BOTH our cars, and if this clutch fries out too fast, I will be giving your friends in Culver City a call! Mahalo for the reassurance and the advice,Dawn

[TrojanGT]

Amazing... the last time the clutch was replaced, the dealer had our Vibe for about a week, maybe a little more. This time, we dropped it off to our mechanic with the new Exedy clutch kit around 8 am, and by 6 pm, he called to say it was ready. Wow!Of course, my first act was to stall but do I love new clutches! We took it for a run to Ventura County last night (about a 120 miles round-trip), with some traffic, some full-out highway speeds, some flat, some hills, and it was terrific. No more fruitless revving, little if any fried smell (it could have been us, could have been a neighboring car in traffic), and just a wonderful feeling. Whee!Just had to share This Exedy clutch is definitely better (at least for now) than the OEM. We'll have to see how well it lasts, but it won't be hard to outdo the OEM, for sure.Mahalo,Dawn

[Mrizzle05]

and you didnt message me???Man i live in that area... we could have meet up and all that stuff!

[WaveAction]

k well i just reached about 570km in my sunfire..i think it's my personal best in my car

[98ex]

When you get a new clutch, make sure you break it in for proper life. Typically you want to put about 450-500 miles of mixed driving on the clutch before you do ANY kind of hard driving.Preferably you should do 450-500 of just city driving of a clutch, and if you drive primarily highway bump this up to 600-650 miles. This is to ensure that the preasure plate and disc seat properly. Not breaking in a clutch can severely lower the life span. This is why when you go test drive a new car, you test drive the model, trim level and engine style you want, and if you like it, you tell the dealer you want one just like it with 1-2 miles on it. If it has 5+ miles on it, stay away from that car. A lot of people will abuse a new car because they are "testing it out" to see what it can do.

[jamesmetairie]

i just posted a question in the "toyota nations forums" about the clutch to see if anyone there is having the clutch problems.

[joatmon]

we are "going nuts" with clutch issues?

[jamesmetairie]

my new orleans public school education showing.my bad choice of words. i was only trying to help. Jim.