Warm up problem

[mikey00]

Anyone else notice this on your Vibe? When you start it in cold weather and let it idle to warm up, the temp guage only moves about 1/4 ". Because the engine is not getting that hot the heater works ok but does not perform as well as it should. If you take it for a ride the temp guage goes up to about 1/2 way and the heat improves. If you stop and let it idle for a while the guage will drop back down and the heater temperature will decrease. I checked another Vibe and it does the same thing so I don't think I have an isolated problem.This works contrary too all other cars I have owned. If I let another car idle in cold weather the temp guage goes up about 1/2 way, which most likely is the thermostat rating, and the heater blows good hot air. If I then drive the temp doesn't really change that much as the thermostat opens and close to maintain constant engine temp. Whats up with the Vibe?

[Raven]

Mine does the same thing. In very cold weather if you sit at idle the temp. drops. Mine is an '06, I don't remember my '04 doing this.

[djb383]

I would think you may have a t-stat that is not closing fully at coolant temps below 180 degrees. My wife and I both have been very pleased at how quickly the heater provides warm air, even with outside temps in the low teens, on both of our '05 Vibes. My ScanGauge rises steadily until it reaches 186 and the t-stat opens.

[Mavrik]

My 04 warms up about 1/4 way on very cold mornings but the moment I start driving it moves up to about half after a few minutes. Now after if I park but leave the engine running, I've never noticed mine go back down.

[mikey00]

Quote, originally posted by djb383 »I would think you may have a t-stat that is not closing fully at coolant temps below 180 degrees. My wife and I both have been very pleased at how quickly the heater provides warm air, even with outside temps in the low teens, on both of our '05 Vibes. My ScanGauge rises steadily until it reaches 186 and the t-stat opens. I first thought I had a t-stat problem until I verified another Vibe works the same way. The problem only occuurs when idling, my heater is great when the car is driven. If you just idle without moving in cold weather will scan guage read 186 and where is your temp guage? I may have to get a scan guage. I have been thinking about it for a while.

[ColonelPanic]

Sounds like you the same problem as mine has! Sure, the heater works fine and dandy - as long as I'm out on the highway... If the car is idling or if it is being driven in stop and go city traffic, might as well forget about having any "heat" unless you call heat "lukewarm." Fortunately, this winter we haven't had much in the way of ice and snow, but the one time we did have a slight amount, I let the thing run for 20 minutes or so, and it still wasn't enough to warm up to begin to clear the windows off. As soon as I take off, I get heat. But the next time I stop, you can feel the temperature of the air begin to drop off. I've only noticed the temperature gauge reading low a few times, however. But as my Scangauge that I recently bought proves, the factory temperature gauge is quite inaccurate. It normally hangs out around the 180-something range most of the time when driving, highest I've seen it reach is 200 on a trip. Haven't paid much attention to it when idling.It's probably the thermostat, but with the location it resides, the manual shows that it may not be an easy job for me to tackle. So I haven't bothered to do anything about it, and I'm not investing any more money than I have to with this car than I have to. Good luck getting yours fixed though. Whatever fixes yours will probably fix mine should I ever get the desire to see that it gets fixed.

[djb383]

Both of our Vibes show half way on the factory temp gauge, even when idleing. ScanGauge rises steadily and levels off at 186 when idleing (factory t-stat is 180). When driving and outside temp is cold, it will drop to 184, but if you stop at a light it will rise to 190 and then drop to 184-186 when moving again.

[northvibe]

mine might do this also. is there a recommended time to replace the t-stat or just when your car acts funny?

[ColonelPanic]

It's always better to replace the thermostat before it fails. They're designed to fail open, so there isn't that great of a chance of them sticking closed and overheating your engine but it still could happen... I don't think it is listed as something to replace in the maintenance schedule, but somewhere around 50,000 sounds like a good interval. Or if you really want to be proactive, get it changed at your first flush at 30,000.

[DavidPIL]

Quote, originally posted by mikey00 »Anyone else notice this on your Vibe? When you start it in cold weather and let it idle to warm up, the temp guage only moves about 1/4 ".Except for the temp gauge going back down, I thought this was normal. My truck was the same. blew out cooler air when idling and really didn't show much of a warming improvement on the temp gauge unless the vehicle was being driven. Didn't think it was wise to let a car idle (for initial warming up or while parked) for any extended time anyway.Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic »It's always better to replace the thermostat before it fails. They're designed to fail open, so there isn't that great of a chance of them sticking closed and overheating your engine but it still could happen... At least for my last vehicle, I was told by the service dept not to change the thermostat till it failed (stating that they fail open anyway), because new thermostats have a higher chance of not working correctly, or not working for very long. If it's working, no need to fix it. Dave

[mikey00]

Quote, originally posted by djb383 »Both of our Vibes show half way on the factory temp gauge, even when idleing. ScanGauge rises steadily and levels off at 186 when idleing (factory t-stat is 180). When driving and outside temp is cold, it will drop to 184, but if you stop at a light it will rise to 190 and then drop to 184-186 when moving again. Sounds like yours is working like I would expect it to work, which sounds more like the exception than the norm from responses here. I also checked out another local Vibe (2nd one) since my first post and that works the same as mine. This is more than an isolated failing thermostat maybe a whole bad batch or something. I am still under warranty so I can try and have the dealer replace the thermostat but I am sure he is going to resist claiming that they all work that way.

[djb383]

I would think the first thing the dealer would do is plug their scanner into the ALDL port under the dash (same place the ScanGauge plugs in) and watch the coolant temp readings rise, starting with the engine cold. The key to this whole deal is your heater is not providing enough hot air to the cabin, as I understand it. Either the coolant temp is too low or maybe the coolant is not properly flowing through the heater core. Definitely let the dealer check it out and post the results.

[mikey00]

Quote, originally posted by djb383 »I would think the first thing the dealer would do is plug their scanner into the ALDL port under the dash (same place the ScanGauge plugs in) and watch the coolant temp readings rise, starting with the engine cold. The key to this whole deal is your heater is not providing enough hot air to the cabin, as I understand it. Either the coolant temp is too low or maybe the coolant is not properly flowing through the heater core. Definitely let the dealer check it out and post the results. In a perfect world that's the way it should work. But I can already guess whats going happen in the GM/Vibe/Toyota world. I will go to the dealer explain my problem and they will check it out. Result will be no problem found. I will complain some more, service manager will say there are about 15 Vibes on the lot new and used. Try any you want, they all work that way, it's a Toyota thing. Chances are from responses I am getting here and at other sites is he is right. I am still purseing this and will most likely order a scan guage being that I wanted one anyway. I am hoping from responses here and at other sites, I may get lucky and find someone who has had this problem and had it fixed. It's a lot easier getting info here than screwing around at the dealer.Where did you get the info on the 180 degree thermostat in the Vibe or are you just going by the scan guage? All my research indicates a Toyota 71 Degree Celcius thermostat which is 160 F.

[djb383]

The local NAPA parts store here shows one t-stat offered for the Vibe - 180 degrees. I don't see how any late model vehicle could pass emissions running a 160 t-stat. How old is the Toyota that uses a 160 factory t-stat? I just checked my '05 and when the factory temp gauge is at 1/4, the ScanGauge indicates 150-155 degrees and my heater is definitely weak. At 185+, nice and toasty. I still think you should take it to a dealership and use the warranty you have paid for.

[mikey00]

I Googled Vibe thermostat and the first site that had a rating for the thermostat was Autohauz Arizona and listed it as 71 degrees C. Which when converted is 160F. I should know better than to trust just one place. Most sites don't tell you the thermostat rating but after some more poking around it looks like it comes with a Toyota 82 degree C which converts to 179.6 F, thus the NAPA 180 F replacement.I think I may know what is happening here. First of all let me say that I have a remote starter, so it is standard procedure when parking for the night to set the heater or defroster to high so the car warms up on cold mornings. I belive that the puny little engine of the Vibe is putting out so little heat at idle on cold days that the blasting heater is acting like a radiator and only allowing the engine to warm to around 150 or so. So even if it idles a long time the heater is keeping the temp down. Of course once it is driven the temp goes up to 180 and the thermostat opens and takes over control from there. Or I suspect that if I let it idle without the heater on, it will reach 180.I will test this and post.Edit Addition: I just found a 2003 Matrix Service Manual online. Thermostat spec is 80 - 84 C (176 - 183 F)

[mikey00]

I had a chance to run some tests on this and it looks like everything is working OK. It's just that the wimpy little Vibe engine produces so little heat at an idle the heater works like a radiator and keeps the engine temp down.First Day: Outside temp 29 FStarted the car, after sitting all night, without the heater running. After 15 minutes temp guage is up almost halfway (5.25 lines) and within another 10 minutes bottom radiator hose is hot (indicating thermostat has opened). This location on the temp guage is most likely 180. Then I turned on the heat full blast. Within 10 minutes temp guage was down to 2 lines.Second Day: Outside temp 29 FStarted the car with the defroster on full blast. After 35 minutes of idling temp guage is still down at 1 line and bottom radiator hose is cold (indicating theromostat is closed).

[zionzr2]

so would a lower temp T-stat help improve this issue?

[mikey00]

No, not at all. It would take either a bigger engine or smaller heater both of which would cause other problems.

[djb383]

Is the radiator fan on when using defrost. Usually defrost activates a/c compressor which activates radiator fan. Just curious.

[mikey00]

I had the same thought, but fan is off. If it was on I was going to test heat versus defrost.I didn't check to see if defrost activates a/c compressor like it does on most cars. If it does, and fan doesn't come on, this should help engine warm up by putting a slight load on it.

[binary]

Quote, originally posted by djb383 »I would think you may have a t-stat that is not closing fully at coolant temps below 180 degrees. My wife and I both have been very pleased at how quickly the heater provides warm air, even with outside temps in the low teens, on both of our '05 Vibes. My ScanGauge rises steadily until it reaches 186 and the t-stat opens. Ditto to what djb says - my wife and I both have '05's, quick and fast heat even when really cold outside. I spend a lot of time on the highway, she's mostly in town - both are quick to warm up.Even when idle - vent settings will melt my eyeballs after 10-15 minutes. Well, I guess I don't have remote start, so I end up driving mine right away. But even when the outside temp was -8F the cabin temp of my car was warm after 15 minutes of idling in my driveway.

[Pawel]

like mikey00 allready said, our little engine is not "big" enought to generate enough heat to warm up to operational temp, which is around 180. Few weeks ago we had cold weather with snow, while cleaing my sidewalk i statred my vibe to heat it up and melt the snow from windshield. after 30 min the temp gage didn't even move above the first line. it was around 20 deegrees outside.so, there really isn't a problem with the design.... just simple thermodynamics issue.

[mikey00]

Try my test above, starting in 29 F weather after sitting all night, and let it idle for 30 minutes with heater on full blast. I bet your temp gage doesn't go past the first line. That's the way they all work. I have tested quite a few at this point. I think you will be suprised at how your Vibe/Matrix doesn't heat up. I am only talking about idling, once you start to drive, great heat.