Oh great, I think my car just S the bed again!

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:00 am

That's some serious suckage there, I hope it all works out well.

jasonvibe · Post by **jasonvibe** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:27 am

the only other "odd tick" I have ever heard in an engine is a loose cam chain. These are just over grown motorcyctle engines and Old and even new cycles this can happen. If the tensioner, for whatever reason...does not do it's job. Ticking... Then...Then the chain snaps and the valves kiss the piston. But this takes quite a while. These engines do have an automatic-rachet tensioner. Which is a the best design currently made. Hope you find out what the cause is...and get things going again.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:01 am

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»Were you running a 5th injector and pulleys or no? The 5th injector comes with the S/C kit, but no other pulleys other than stock.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:04 am

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»How about a fuel management system? All I had was the GM stuff. The TRD ECM acts as the fuel management. No other parts other than Injen CAI and Water Injection.

theangrydwarf1 · Post by **theangrydwarf1** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:14 am

Sorry to hear about your Vibe. I wish you the best of luck getting things straightened out.

Psychobroker · Post by **Psychobroker** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:29 am

Quote, originally posted by damronjr Â»Update, the December 2005 VOTM is now deceased! I took it to the dealer yesterday and the changed the oil and told me to drive it for a couple of days and see what happens. Well, today on my way home from work the tap turned into a clunk and the end of my engines life. I had it towed to the dealer and they said they will look at it tomorrow and call me with the details. We tried to start it at the dealer and all we heard was a groan from the engine. He said it sounded like there wasn't any compression. I don't know.... All I know is I can't afford this. Oh man Jason, I'm so sorry you're going through this. As the others have said, hopefully it's a mfg-part defect.

Psychobroker · Post by **Psychobroker** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:41 am

This totally blows (I just read the last pages) -- 25k miles and a thrown rod? BS, this needs to be covered under warranty, and I'd storm down there with a copy of the Magnussen-Moss Warranty Act in hand. Better yet, read this (even though it's written from the perspective of addressing a warrantor i.e. GM: http://www.mlmlaw.com/library/...g.htmNOTE: Section 110(d) of the Act makes breach of warranty a violation of federal law, and enables consumers to recover attorneys' fees. Quote Â»The Act makes it easier for purchasers to sue for breach of warranty by making breach of warranty a violation of federal law, and by allowing consumers to recover court costs and reasonable attorneys' fees. This means that if you lose a lawsuit for breach of either a written or an implied warranty, you may have to pay the customer's costs for bringing the suit, including lawyer's fees.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:03 am

Quote, originally posted by Psychobroker Â»Oh man Jason, I'm so sorry you're going through this. As the others have said, hopefully it's a mfg-part defect. Been a while since we talked, Christian! Seen you on and off various posts, but not near as much as before. As far as sueing, I don't plan to do anything like that. If it comes to that I will just buy a used engine and get it put it. I really just want to know why it blew and if it was the aftermarket parts or an actual defect which it seems to be. If it's their fault I want them to know and I want them to apologize and fix it like they should be doing right now. Either way they should be locating the fault before automatically blaming aftermarket parts and automatically "voiding" my warranty just by sight.

Psychobroker · Post by **Psychobroker** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:02 am

Quote, originally posted by damronjr Â»Been a while since we talked, Christian! Seen you on and off various posts, but not near as much as before. As far as sueing, I don't plan to do anything like that. If it comes to that I will just buy a used engine and get it put it. I really just want to know why it blew and if it was the aftermarket parts or an actual defect which it seems to be. If it's their fault I want them to know and I want them to apologize and fix it like they should be doing right now. Either way they should be locating the fault before automatically blaming aftermarket parts and automatically "voiding" my warranty just by sight.Yep, i'm just a lot busier than I used to be - which is good! I hope you've been doing well (aside from this problem, of course )Quote Â»Either way they should be locating the fault before automatically blaming aftermarket parts and automatically "voiding" my warranty just by sightThat's just it, if they don't budge and refuse to even INSPECT the vehicle at their cost, I'd 1) contact Pontiac HQ and 2) at least hint at bringing a suit i.e. tell them you'll be discussing their hasty decision with your attorney, which you should anyway.

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:53 am

Don't shoot the messenger but I believe that the CAI and exhaust void the warranty with a SC install. I think it is stated with purchase that these can't be added. I'm not positive about this but I remember reading something to that effect though I couldn't find anything to that effect. The SC runs quite rich to cool the exhaust and prevent knock. The leaner running CAI plus exhaust can defeats this failsafe as could have your piggyback if it wasn't firing the 5th injector. If that was the case, you were running lean and with enough knock could have begun damage to the rod/crank bearing.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:05 am

Quote, originally posted by goodvibe Â»Don't shoot the messenger but I believe that the CAI and exhaust void the warranty with a SC install. I think it is stated with purchase that these can't be added. I'm not positive about this but I remember reading something to that effect though I couldn't find anything to that effect. The SC runs quite rich to cool the exhaust and prevent knock. The leaner running CAI plus exhaust can defeats this failsafe as could have your piggyback if it wasn't firing the 5th injector. If that was the case, you were running lean and with enough knock could have begun damage to the rod/crank bearing.The CAI I know does void the warranty on the s/c parts. Not sure about the rest of the car as it seems just having the s/c on there pretty much voids that warranty! Never heard of exhaust voiding anything though, and as for the knocking, that is what the water injection is for, to cool intake temps and egts and prevent detonation.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:06 am

Well guys, I am 4/5 of the way through with putting the Vibe back to stock. I looked at the valves while I had the intake off and they looked to be in perfect cosmetic shape. Nothing seemed to be out of order visibly, so I really have no clue what is wrong. I did try to turn the crank pully by hand when the belt was off and it wasn't budging. Oil and water are separate and fine. Nothing seems to be out of the ordinary or looks wrong. Guess I'll just have to let the dealer try to figure it out. Only thing I seem to be having a problem with now besides my back hurting like h311 is figuring out where some of the hoses go back on. If anyone has the time like tonight or tomorrow early morning, if you have or can take some pictures of your hoses and where they come from and go to, that would be greatly appreciated. Some were switched with the s/c and I'm not sure how they go back in. I just want to make sure this thing is as close to stock as possible when I take it in so there's no hints of the mods. Probably going to try to get it to a dealer Monday if I can.

BlueCrush · Post by **BlueCrush** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:35 am

Are you talking about the hoses that go from the valve cover to the intake manifold & TB?

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:44 pm

Quote, originally posted by BlueCrush Â»Are you talking about the hoses that go from the valve cover to the intake manifold & TB?Yep, all those.

BlueCrush · Post by **BlueCrush** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:12 pm

Here ya go (it's an old pic I had saved):

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:37 am

Thanks Brian, that does clear up 1 hose, but if it's not too much to ask, could you or anyone else take those 2 larger hoses off (they're just air hoses) and take a pic of the smaller hoses on the back of the throttle body? Those are the ones that I can't seem to figure out. Mainly there's 2 small S-shaped hoses that I'm not sure where or mostly how they go.

BlueCrush · Post by **BlueCrush** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:21 am

Are you talking a bout the coolant lines that run to the TB?If so I can't help you there since I by-passed mine last year.

ArcsVibe · Post by **ArcsVibe** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:23 am

Oh man Jason! This really sucks!! I wish there was something we can do to help you out......

Merzbow · Post by **Merzbow** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:33 pm

I'm sure your baby will be back to normal soon...shes just not used to all the changes yet lol.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:15 pm

Quote, originally posted by BlueCrush Â»Are you talking a bout the coolant lines that run to the TB?If so I can't help you there since I by-passed mine last year.Yeah, I saw that while trying to find pics. Those are the hoses I need pics of, so if anyone could help I would really appreciate it. I wanted to get this done yesterday, but since I had to take care of my son all day with no one home to help me, I couldn't get anything done and I also didn't know which hose went where anyways. There's also a small metal bracket (I'll take a pic and post when I get home, it's kind of hard to explain) that I don't know where it goes, and I was wondering if the vibramount from the CAI was originally on the car and if so where exactly it went.EDIT!: Nevermind, thanks to a posting on MO I found all the info I needed on Trixology.com! The bracket was the throttle-body bracket and the hoses are the water-bypass hoses, just needed to see how they were routed. Still not sure about the vibramount yet though.

millster · Post by **millster** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:05 am

I can help you out with the vibramount part. No, it was not originally on the car. I had to remove mine when I got in an accident and didn't want to leave the CAI on when the car went in for repair.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:11 am

Quote, originally posted by millster Â»I can help you out with the vibramount part. No, it was not originally on the car. I had to remove mine when I got in an accident and didn't want to leave the CAI on when the car went in for repair.Sweet, I can't find mine anyways! Everything else should be good, I found all the other parts in the repair manual on trixology. Hopefully it'll go to the dealer tonight or tomorrow. We'll see what happens from there!

millster · Post by **millster** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:16 am

Good luck. Hopefully this dealer will at least look at it long enough to tell you what's wrong.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:22 am

Quote, originally posted by millster Â»Good luck. Hopefully this dealer will at least look at it long enough to tell you what's wrong. Well, since they supposedly don't know I had the stuff on it, they should fix it under warranty, but during the break-down they may get subtle hints (i.e. wrong bolts if I couldn't find the originals, wear on bolts from being removed and reused, etc...) that some kind of work was done on it. I am trying to get it as close to stock as I can, so hopefully they'll figure it out and get it fixed under warranty. If not, good bye tax returns and so much for paying bills!

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:48 am

Update! Well, the car finally went to the dealer and I played stupid. I gave up dealing with the guys I bought it from and went to another a little further away. They asked me what was done to it and I just told them exhaust, stereo, and airbags! They took it in under warranty and I saw all the info on my car and it was A-OK! Problem already is not 1hr after I dropped it off they are already calling me warning me that they found that I had switched the battery and supposedly other stuff (nothing else donw that I can think of!) and said if it doesn't get warrantied the diagnostics will be $89! Guess I'll hold my breathe and see what they come back at me with here in the next couple of days. Cross your fingers for me guys!

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:53 am

Fingers crossed behind me. Good luck.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:43 am

Quote, originally posted by goodvibe Â»Fingers crossed behind me. Good luck.Too late, I'm F-ed! This guy knows I had the S/C on it, I'm f-ed. He can tell the bolts have been removed, the wiring has been modified, etc.... He said he is having the District Mgr come look at it tomorrow, at which time I will be completely F-ed. I don't know what to do, but after the DM sees this I can almost guarantee my warranty will be blocked on the entire car. Once again, they won't even open it to see what's wrong with it.

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:35 am

I'm sorry to hear about your bad luck with it and I saw this to late to recommend leaving your mods on there and just being honest. Removing mods and playing innocent do not help at all as you know now... they could easily tell what you did. Now they have no reason to help with anything because you were not honest up front with them. I'm one to talk though, I know I fried my MAF on my CAI install and they got me a new one because I removed my CAI and drove into the dealership. But they knew me also since I worked there.But exhaust mods, S/C and what not all leave tell tale signs of being installed. Guess its time to get a used engine and install a turbo huh.

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:32 am

Jason, if you end up without a warranty claim, this is on eBay as I type this. Hope it gives you an option. Good luck.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:46 am

Quote, originally posted by new05vibeowner Â»Jason, if you end up without a warranty claim, this is on eBay as I type this. Hope it gives you an option. Good luck.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1$1209 for shipping alone, yikes! Damn good deal though if it stays that cheap. There are a few used ones right down the road, but thanks anyways!

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:47 am

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik Â»I'm sorry to hear about your bad luck with it and I saw this to late to recommend leaving your mods on there and just being honest. Removing mods and playing innocent do not help at all as you know now... they could easily tell what you did. Now they have no reason to help with anything because you were not honest up front with them. I'm one to talk though, I know I fried my MAF on my CAI install and they got me a new one because I removed my CAI and drove into the dealership. But they knew me also since I worked there.But exhaust mods, S/C and what not all leave tell tale signs of being installed. Guess its time to get a used engine and install a turbo huh.Another dealer is the one who told me to try that way, but I figured they would be able to tell. Used engine - yes, turbo - definitely can't afford that, if I can even afford an engine!

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:52 am

Ok if the dealership that told you to try that... why wouldn't they look after it if you brought it back to them? It was their idea that someone look the other way. I think they should have been the ones.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:05 pm

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik Â»Ok if the dealership that told you to try that... why wouldn't they look after it if you brought it back to them? It was their idea that someone look the other way. I think they should have been the ones.They claimed they couldn't b/c they KNEW the stuff had been there, but if it was stock and I just took it somewhere else and played stupid they may just find and fix the problem as if it was stock since there is nothing there to PROVE I ever had anything on it. McClellan was giving me the runaround so I ust decided to try doing what Harrison had told me. Looks like that didn't work out and now today the Regional or District Service Manager is supposed to come look at it and McClellan is supposed to let me know today if they can work on it! Like I said, I'm F-ed!

BlueCrush · Post by **BlueCrush** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:38 pm

Here is another one for you to take a look at. Shipping is much cheaper.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:48 pm

Quote, originally posted by BlueCrush Â»Here is another one for you to take a look at. Shipping is much cheaper.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1Nice find! Gonna have to watch that one in case I end up needing it!

BlueCrush · Post by **BlueCrush** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:45 pm

One more, even cheaper: http://www.newcelica.org/forum...03900

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:42 am

Quote, originally posted by BlueCrush Â»One more, even cheaper: http://www.newcelica.org/forum...03900Thanks Brian!

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:20 pm

Quote, originally posted by BlueCrush Â»One more, even cheaper: http://www.newcelica.org/forum...03900Trying to contact him. Just going to swap and get it over with. Sick of dealing with the dealerships.

ShadowRuleZ · Post by **ShadowRuleZ** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:07 am

So what's the story now?

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:25 am

Waiting like everyone else!

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:18 pm

Update, the Vibe is back home. Dealer wouldn't touch it, when I got there to pick it up it was like 3 cars deep in the middle of a sea of other cars waiting to be worked on. Had to push it out and got it towed home. Supposed to go get a used engine today. Gonna run me $700, came from a 2003 Matrix and supposedly has 23k mi. If that's accurate then I will be right where I am supposed to be as I have 23k and a few hundred on mine. It is from a wreck yard and comes with a 3mo warranty. Looks like a good time to finally install that header, tranny cooler, and front sway bar I've had sitting around forever! Actually, I may just sell the FSB as it doesn't really serve much of a purpose on an airbagged car! Anyways, just wanted to let everyone know what was going on.

coldmm803 · Post by **coldmm803** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:52 am

i was lookin at the autocross vibe and saw it has a corsa exhaust n just found this hope it helps with fight warranty voiding. if you can prove that your aftermarket parts did not cause the failure then they can not void ithttp://www.corsaperf.com/awarrantyvoid.htmhttp ... /c...ranty

BlueCrush · Post by **BlueCrush** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:54 am

Good luck with the install!

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:16 pm

News flash! We went to look at engines today and found a 2004 Corolla S with 20k for $900. Planned to go pick it up tomorrow. Just for fun my bro-in-law and I decided to tear into the old one to see what was wrong. We tried turning the engine and found it would only move slightly from front to back. Opened the valve cover and everything looked spotless. Noticed the intake cam wasn't turning at first, but after moving it by hand it started moving. Tore off the oil pan..... BINGO!!!!! One of the rods was snapped, tore a couple of chunks and puncheda hole in one side of the block out and lodged into the other side! I took some pics as best I could and will post them later. Looks like a new engine for me, but I don't see how that could be related to a GM Performance Part modification, so I have to assume defective part. I'm going to call the dealer and if need be GM tomorrow and see what they say. Most likely I will still be picking up the engine tomorrow. Kiss $900 good-bye and most likely my chances of getting the CF hood I have been waiting a year for! Just wanted to update everyone. More later.

glassman · Post by **glassman** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:51 pm

are you selling the front stb bar?

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:12 pm

Thanks for the update, I've been wonderin' about ya! I would give it up with GM and the dealer though, it would probably be more trouble than it is worth... Those numbskulls wouldn't do anything with that knockin' piece of crap engine in its bone stock, never-been-touched form, still installed in my car... lol! So somehow I doubt bringing them a disassembled one will really do ya that much good. If they know the S/C didn't make it blow up, they can always pull out the "abuse" card since people don't put S/C's on cars to drive 'em like grandma lol! I'm sure they have plenty of other get out of jail free cards at their disposal to ensure they do not have to help you out... Or maybe that's just me, I'm the type of person who thinks the whole world is against him anyway and usually, it is. Blah, I say throw that Corolla S engine in it and call it done. I'm very happy to hear that you were able to find a very reasonably priced engine with a very reasonable amount of wear on it. That ain't a bad deal at all man... Get that thing installed in there and you'll be as good as new. Hell, if I had the intentions of keeping my car for a while longer, I'd buy an engine like that for that price, $900 for the whole thing hopefully without problems vs. $400 I was just quoted for the fricken valve job alone that my current engine needs and has several other issues on top of that which could use some fixing... You're getting a deal!Good luck to ya, and do keep us posted.

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:59 pm

I also think that this is the correct route but your options aren't exhausted yet. The motor tore itself up to the point of unrepairable after you had it at the dealer for the rod knock sound. They told you to drive it aroung to see what happened and made the situation much worse for you by not looking for the actual cause. I'd keep track of the time it takes to do the work or find out what Pontiac charges for the change if you pursue an claim. Small claims court may get you a judgement for time and motor or part of it but you'll need proof of that visit with the complaint on the reciept. A rod and some bearings is different than a whole new motor and the dealer contributed to that in a big way. It's not a warranty issue as much as a liability one unless you refused to pay for them to open it up. I've been thinking about the cause of the problem and it could be related to the water injection. If it malfunctioned and threw too much water into the cylinder or managed to puddle water in the intake that got sucked up when you got on it, the excess water could cause mild hydrolock in a cylinder and fatugued/broke the rod. Good luck with the install. Hope it all goes well.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:12 pm

Quote, originally posted by glassman Â»are you selling the front stb bar?I had a Hotchkis bar that was destroyed by the air bags, so I don't even have one right now. I plan to get the DC Sports car eventually.

ArcsVibe · Post by **ArcsVibe** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:18 pm

Jason you have IM

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:31 pm

Thanks for the replies colonel and goodvibe. I almost know that you guys are right and GM won't do anything, but what could asking hurt? The engine is still in the car and it's assembly status should actually be better for them b/c they don't have to open it themselves and look for the problem, it will be right freakin' there! As far as their "get out of jail" cards, I'm sure they will always have something at their disposal so I have no doubt they will yet again screw me over. I do agree that the water injection could have had something to do with it as it broke down shortly after it was installed. It may not have been set right or was providing too muc water, or, like you said goodvibe, pooling and sucked in a big gulp. It's really hard to say and that is the exact same reason GM won't touch it, they can't prove one way or the other since it was modded, so they won't even look at it. Oh well, new S/C'ed engine will be in shortly w/out W/I whether GM foots it or not!