Difference in Oil Filter

[MarkM04]

I have a base '04. I went to get an oil filter yesturday, and I realized there are two different styles. Correct my mistakes here please, but there was one for the base, is that code 8? And one for the DOHC engine, is that a code L?Anyways, they looked the same other then the filter for the higher hp engine was a little longer.Is there something else different about the filter? Maybe a different rated bypass valve? There is pleanty of room for the longer filter on base engine. So there must be something else that's different.

[ragingfish]

AFAIK, there is no difference other than length. I vaguely remember hearing that the longer filter was necessary because of the added oil pressure from lift, or something to that effect. But I believe several folks have successfully used the longer filters on base engines.FYI:GT engine (2ZZ) is code LV6Base/AWD engine (1ZZ) is code LNKNot sure about that code 8 stuff...

[ToolGuy]

Do not know enough to recommend however in other vehicles that I know about a larger filter obviously held more oil and more oil for the engine to use is always better. I will have to check it out of curiosity.

[goodvibe]

It should have more filter media and flow better with less resistance from restriction but they would both be in bypass mode during lift anyway.

[MarkM04]

Thanks. Seems odd that they just wouldn't recommend the long filter for both applications.

[Pick]

Quote, originally posted by MarkM04 »Thanks. Seems odd that they just wouldn't recommend the long filter for both applications. agreed

[bud_one]

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »Not sure about that code 8 stuff...just a little "fyi"what he meant by that was the "8th" digit of the vin # designates what engine is in the vehicle...8 = LNKL = LV6

[smurfy]

I think there may be a difference in the filters... I was told by a factory Toyota mechanic that due to difference in the optimal oil pressure in the two engines, the longer filter is designed to handle flow at a higher pressurized rate. While it will also fit a base engine, the danger is that the base engine will not generate sufficient pressure to ensure a good constant rate of flow of the oil through the larger filter... as such, it is NOT recommended that you use the longer filter for the base engine. Incidently, on an unrelated note, if you are buying OEM parts, the Toyota equivalent of this filter is cheaper in price than the one you find at the GM dealership....

[mcgusto82]

i don't buy any OEM consumable. i buy fram which tells to use the same filter for both vehicles. both 1zz and 2zz are DOHC.

[Cougar Vibe]

There have been a few discussions at the BITOG forum about the different filters ("oversized") that fit the base 1.8l Toyota engine. That is a great place to look...However, if your vehicle is under warranty, you should not go with the larger filter. Recently I lucked out and got a great deal on some Puralator Pure One filters; in fact, I bought out all the PL14476 filters in stock and then bought a couple of PL14477 for when my Vibe is out of warranty. Anyway, my curiousity got the better of me and I called both Purolator and my local Toyota dealer to find out if using the larger filter would cause any potential issues. Purolators' response was (parapharasing here), "The difference in volume is not significant enough to cause an oil pressure issue. However, this part (the PL14477) is not warrantied for application on your particular vehicle (1ZZ Vibe)." Toyota's response was less "dire," as the service person I spoke with suggested that they do put the longer Denso OEM filter for the 2ZZ engine on 1ZZ 1.8l engines from time-to-time (unfortunately, I didn't ask if these were vehicles still under warranty or not). So, it seems in my experience that certain Toyota service departments don't have a problem with larger-volume filters on Matrix's and Corollas. However, I think you would have to err on the side of caution since GM/Pontiac is providing warranty service (which is what Purolator suggested). Don't get me wrong: More flow is better, more media is better. But I'm going to save my larger Pure One's for 2008.BTW: I know that a number of people here use Mobil1, so you might want to go over to BITOG and read up on how Mobil1 is "dumbing down" their additive packages in light of recent hurricanes. In fact, new bottles of Mobil1 no longer have the API logo and starburst. There seems to be a growing movement towards hoarding Mobil1 until Mobil either gets API certification again or returns to their previous forumula. Sort of reminds me of the hysteria behind the recent "German Castrol" buying frenzy...

[smurfy]

Very good advice, and thanks for the info about Mobil-1...guess it is time for me to make a trip to the local automotive supplies store....can you forward me the link to the BITOG forum? I am unfamiliar with that site...

[Baltovibe]

Hey Cougar ... I am glad you are back on GenVibe! I also didn't know about Mobil 1 until your post ... I went to 3 different stores tonight to stock up on the API rated oil. It was a chore ... had to go through a lot of stock to find the older bottles. Thanks so much!!By the way, found out through Google that BITOG = BOBISTHEOILGUY and is located at http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

[Digger]

My 05 came with the larger toyota filter from the factory. I would think that size would not matter with the filter.

[goodvibe]

That's correct. Once the filter is primed, you will never get a pressure drop from one end to the other due to the size of the filter, your trying to compress a fluid and there is nowhere else for the pressure to go. That Toyota mechanic that warned about the large filter causing a pressure drop doesn't have a clue about how an oil system works. The larger the filter, the less often it would be in bypass mode since more media will allow more oil to pass without restriction. That's a good thing. The filter could be 10 times as big with absolutely no pressure drop and possibly be better filtering since the flow rate per media area is smaller (the overall pressure from in to out would stay the same) and would be less likely to force dirt through with the oil. Oversize me!

[RIT]

When it comes to oil filters - "size matters".

[Cougar Vibe]

It seems that the formulation changes are not just for Mobil 1 now...I had to dig through a bunch of Mobil 7500 to find the API "donut" & "starburst" bottles. Also, there are reports now that Mobil 1 EP is being found without the API labeling too.Supposedly, such temporary reformulations are not supposeded to go longer than ninety-days; however, these API waivers are renewable. The bottles I've seen without the API information are rated for "SM," no more "SL." Also, instead of saying "meets and exceeds," they say "suitable." I guess we won't know what those semantics mean until somebody runs the new stuff for a while and submits a UOA. Some people may say that this is a lot of worrying over nothing, but I think that if I'm paying $20.17 (5qts) for Mobil 1, I should search out the best formulation available. Perhaps Mobil will get recertified soon and this new additive package and reformulation will become the new standard. I even wonder if Mobil will continue to make "1" for much longer, since "1 EP" and "5000" are the focus of their main marketing campaigns. We'll just have to see...

[glassman]

ahh yes presure is resistance of flow

[Pyro-Andrew]

i just use the one it says to in the booook....i like to keeep it simple:)

[21Rouge]

Quote, originally posted by Pyro-Andrew »i just use the one it says to in the booook....i like to keeep it simple:)But that's no fun.

[VibeoFive]

A Purolator and Kendall GT1 full synthetic has gotten me to 200,000 miles in my last 2 vehicles. It's the ONLY oil used one of the largest national chains of automobile service facilities (Firestone).

[JohnC]

Quote, originally posted by mcgusto82 »i don't buy any OEM consumable. i buy fram which tells to use the same filter for both vehicles. both 1zz and 2zz are DOHC. The standard Fram oil filter is one of the worst on the market. Here is an excert from a oil filter study.Fram Extra Guard PH8AThis filter cartridge has a small outside diameter with a rather low filter element surface area (193 sqin), and features cardboard end caps that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals the rough metal backplate to the cardboard end cap and easily leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. If you have a noisy valve train at startup, this filter is likely the cause. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak. The backplate has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow.The telltale signs for a Fram Extra Guard are: It has 8 small holes for the oil inlet and a thin, cheap looking backplate, and is currently stamped with a "2Y". There are 5 very small crimps holding the gasket in place. If you look into the center hole all the way to the top of the filter, you will see a kind of "button" in the end cap of the cartridge (which looks like it's made of metal from there). This is the plastic bypass valve.Link to study. http://minimopar.knizefamily.n...-tg8a

[mcgusto82]

i don't know about the standard filter. usually i get the midlevel one. i think it's the "tough guard".but good find. maybe i should look at other stidies concerning these.i'm still not buying OEM. not i don't have to.

[goodvibe]

Mid level one has many of the same problems. Cheap Purolators or Suoertech(Walmart) are better. I usually use WIX.

[Cougar Vibe]

Mcgusto,When you say you're not buying the OEM filter, are you referring to the ACDelco part from GM? If so, I can see why you wouldn't want to buy it (it's simply an overpriced Denso filter that has been repackaged). Regardless of the reason, there are far better choices for oil filters than Fram's line-up (as GoodVibe and JohnC have mentioned). The Toyota OEM w/drainplug gasket can be had for ~$5.00 and is highly-rated on the BITOG forum. At around that price point you could also go with a Purolator Pure One or Wix/Napa Gold (which are both rated very well and will get you into 7,500 OCI territory). If you are looking for a ~$3 filter, the Purolator PremiumPlus is fairly good as are the Motorcraft filters. I guess it sort of depends on what OCI you want to try. For instance, you could go with a good dino oil like Chevron ($.49/quart with rebate at Kragen) and a SuperTech filter ($2 at Walmart) and end up with 3K OCI at a cost of $4 an oil change. If you are "religious" about the 3k OCI, this is more than adequate for a 1ZZ engine. However, if you'd like a little more confidence in your engine maintenace or you aren't so dedicated to changing oil, buy a PremiumPlus filter ($3), one quart of pre-hurricane Mobil 1 ($5) and three quarts of Mobil 5000 ($1.75/quart). For ~$13 you have a nice synthetic blend and a pretty good filter that should work out to a 6k-7k OCI. I guess it just depends on how often you want to crawl under your Vibe.

[mcgusto82]

I use castrol GTX oil. i don't believe that how much you pay will determine the quality, but i also don't cheap out on all things. I've learned over the years that if there's a mid level, then that's what i get. the reason for me not wanting tom buy OEM stuff is that dealer prices are always INFLATED. I choose to practice my right to buy somebody elses' product. This is how i protest. Plus i've been using FRAM for over 6 years, with no complaints. I will do my own research on their quality, but one bad review is not going to deter me from my preferred oil filter.

[Cougar Vibe]

While you're right about the over-inflated dealer prices, I don't think buying a Toyota OEM (Denso) filter for $5 is a bad deal...especially since that is the filter that the engineers who designed the engine want on it.As for Fram, if it works for you then by all means go for it. However, there is a lot of information about their questionable construction and quality at http://www.bobistheoilguy.com. If you read through the thousands of posts there, you'll notice two things: There is no concensus on the "best oil filter" and there is almost complete concensus that Fram is not the best choice for most applications. (I used to be a Fram guy too until I read more about filtration density, silicone anti-drain back valves, metal vs. cardboard endcaps, amount of filtration media, e-core design, etc).

[mcgusto82]

Quote, originally posted by Cougar Vibe »As for Fram, if it works for you then by all means go for it. However, there is a lot of information about their questionable construction and quality at http://www.bobistheoilguy.com. wait, so you get your info from a guy named Bob, who thinks he's the oil guy?? joking. LOL

[Cougar Vibe]

Actually, I don't think Bob is with us anymore, but there are thousands of stand-in's.

[goodvibe]

It doesn't take too many reviews to know that poor construction with cardboard end caps less media and a cheap ADBV aren't good things. It also has done poorly in flow tests. It won't break the car and may be good enough but why not get something better for less money. Fram's a bigger rip than the dealer.

[21Rouge]

Quote, originally posted by Cougar Vibe » Sort of reminds me of the hysteria behind the recent "German Castrol" buying frenzy... And speaking of such. I just got the results of an oil analysis on a 3600 mile run of German Castrol 0W-30 in my 05 Vibe. The previous run had been M1 5W-30. The lab did confirm that the GC oil resulted in better wear #s than the run of the M1 (which I had analyzed as well) , even taking into account that the engine is still 'breaking in'. The analyst made the encouraging comment "this engine needs GC"!

[jasonvibe]

Just don't fool yourself into thinking that the best oils mean you can go longer. The filters on these engines are small. Fact is the filter will get clogged before viscosity has lowered significantly from miles run. Most miles I would ever put on is 5k, no matter what oil I used...if I had to.

[21Rouge]

Quote, originally posted by jasonvibe »Just don't fool yourself into thinking that the best oils mean you can go longer. The filters on these engines are small. Fact is the filter will get clogged before viscosity has lowered significantly from miles run. Most miles I would ever put on is 5k, no matter what oil I used...if I had to. I politely disagree. There is lots of evidence from Used Oil Analysis on oils in 1zzfe engines that a quality synthetic with the oem filter or an after market one such as a Napa Gold can easily go further than 5 k miles. One may to choose to change out oil and filter at manual recommended intervals but it is not necessary in terms of engine health.

[jasonvibe]

You state OIL analysis. Oil analysis rarely shows amount of carbon(blow by) in the oil. This is the first sign the filter has hit the limit. Yes, the oil can still protect. But when does the filter get to it's limit? I really think no one knows.

[goodvibe]

Oil analysis usually does have an insolubles measurement for that purpose. An oversized filter will also allow a longer OCI though the standard ones were designed for oem recomendations which sometimes is longer than 5k. I use a good dino or blend for 5k but I would go longer with a good synth.

[Cougar Vibe]

While I would think that a mid-priced to high-end filter should easily handle 5,000 miles, you could always change out the filter and leave the oil in. Considering how hard it is to find green GC and how well it performs in European driving conditions (15,000 kilometer OCI's), I'd hate to think people are dumping it because of the filter.