How to drain fuel tank?

TonyB · Post by **TonyB** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:04 pm

First post guys, and I really hope someone can help us out...I bought my wife an '05 Base Vibe about this time last year, and it has been exceptional for us... at least until she made a big mistake tonight - DIESEL fuel!!!! Thankfully only 3 gallons...I had to have it towed to my dad's house where it now sits. I'm now loading supplies in my car to prepare for some work on it tomorrow. Tonight, before darkness, I went under the Vibe and failed to see a drain plug for the fuel tank. Is it under the shielding on the passenger side? Is there a drain plug? If not, kindly share where you all think would be an ideal place to get rid of this heavy diesel fuel.Thanks much for your time!

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:35 pm

I don't think there is a drain plug. It looks like a lot of work to drop the tank. The access to the fuel pump/fuel filter is by removing the back seats. If it was my car, I'd probably go in that way and try to siphon out what I could from the tank. There could be some useful info on accessing it in these threadshttp://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=12175http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=5021Looking in a Matrix service manual the tank removal process is to pull the fuel pump out, "drain the tank" and then proceed with removing the tank, so they are saying drain the tank from the hole on top when the fuel pump assembly is removed.here's a PDF that shows some detail on that process

Attached files w140001.pdf (145.8 KB)

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:41 pm

(removed)! That's horrible dude, I'm so sorry! Smart move towing it instead of risking driving it! As for draining, this is the procedure per the service manual:Quote Â»Step 1: FUEL PRESSURE RELIEF PROCEDURE* Loosen fuel filler cap to relieve tank pressure* Remove storage bin to left of steering wheel* Reach in and remove the circuit opening relay from the fuse block. It's in the fourth row of stuff from the left, it's the second relay back. There will be 3 of them, rectangular, in a row.* Crank the engine and allow it to stall.* Crank for an additional 3 seconds to assure relief of any remaining pressure.* Disconnect negative battery cable to avoid re-pressurization.* Reinstall relay.* Reinstall storage bin.* Retighten filler cap.Step 2: FUEL SENDER REMOVAL PROCEDUREIMPORTANT:- ALWAYS REPLACE THE FUEL SENDER ASSEMBLY O-RINGS WHEN REINSTALLING THE FUEL SENDER ASSEMBLY.- ALWAYS MAINTAIN CLEANLINESS WHEN SERVICING FUEL SYSTEM COMPONENTS.- DO NOT BEND THE ARM OF THE FUEL GAUGE FLOAT WHILE REMOVING THE FUEL SENDER ASSEMBLY.* Remove the rear seat bottom cushions. Easiest way is to unbolt the 4 front bolts along the bottom of the seat, lift up the seats, and use a bungee cord through the grab handles to hold the seat bottoms up and out of the way.* Remove the sill plate from the left side door opening.* Fold back the carpet to maintain metal-to-metal contact while servicing the sender assembly.* Remove access panel for fuel sender assembly from rear seat floor. Panel is held in place by a butyl caulk seal.* Disconnect fuel sender electrical connector from the assembly.* Disconnect the electrical connector of the tank pressure sensor from the assembly (only other wire attached).* Remove the retaining clip from the fuel line fitting.* Remove the fuel line from the fuel sender assembly.* Disconnect the fuel tank vapor line from the sender assembly.* Remove the 8 bolts retaining the hold down plate for the fuel sender assembly.* Remove the hold down plate.* Clean the fuel pipe and fuel sender assembly to prevent possibly fuel contamination during removal.* Remove the fuel sender assembly from the fuel tank.* Inspect and clean o-ring sealing surfaces on sender assembly.Step 3: FUEL TANK DRAINING PROCEDURE* Use a hand operated pump device in order to drain the fuel through the fuel sender assembly opening on the fuel tank.Step 4: REINSTALLATION* Position sender assembly o-ring on the fuel sender assembly.* Install assembly into the fuel tank.* Reinstall hold down plate for sender assembly.* Secure hold down plate for the fuel sender assembly with the 8 bolts. Tighten the bolts to 53 lb-in (6 NÃ¢Â€Â¢m)* Install the fuel tank vapor line to the fuel sender fiting.* Install the fuel pipe to the fuel sender fitting.* Secure the fuel pipe with the retaining clip.* Connect the fuel sender electrical connection.* Connect the fuel tank pressure sensor electrical connector.* Connect negative battery cable.* Pressurize the fuel system and check for leaks.* Inspect the butyl caulk seal for the fuel sender access panel. Replace any missing butyl caulk as necessary.* Install the access panel to the rear seat floor.* Relocate the carpet under the seat and left sill area.* Install the sill plate to the left door opening.* Lower the rear seat bottom cushions.* Reinstall the 4 bolts and tighten to 30 lb-ft (41 NÃ¢Â€Â¢m).Does that help?

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:02 pm

Good info there. I wonder about the fuel system pressure relief procedure though, do we really want to crank it with the diesel fuel? I wonder how one can relieve the pressure without cranking the engine?At any rate, wow! I hope it can be fixed quickly and no damage occurred! I do wonder how did diesel get into the tank? The pump nozzle for the diesel fuel *should* have been too large to fit in the filler thingamajig on a gas powered car...

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:05 pm

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic Â»Good info there. I wonder about the fuel system pressure relief procedure though, do we really want to crank it with the diesel fuel? I wonder how one can relieve the pressure without cranking the engine?That is a fantastic point you raise. Unfortunately, I do not know the answer. But you obviously *HAVE* to release the pressure SOMEHOW before you can remove the sender assembly. Otherwise, you risk fuel spray or other personal injury, which can be VERY serious!Was the car driven AT ALL before it was towed, or did she immediately realize her error and not start the engine again?If the car WAS NOT driven, I would suspect there would be enough regular fuel in the system to allow the engine to be cranked, and the pressure relieved, before the sender starts sucking in diesel. If the car WAS run with diesel, and stalled out before it was towed, then I'd venture to guess one could do no more damage then would have already been done (if any was done) if the car was driven with diesel. And if it's the latter case, then draining the tank alone will not solve the problem, as you now have diesel in the sender, fuel lines, fuel rail, block, etc. Question which I can't answer is, could draining the tank and restoring proper fuel be enough? Would you then be able to just crank the engine until the sender picks up the right fuel, and then once the RIGHT fuel hits the engine, would it either burn off or spit out the diesel? Or is it the kind of thing that, once the engine block *touches* diesel, risk of damage exists? I honestly don't know enough about this to tell you...Quote Â»At any rate, wow! I hope it can be fixed quickly. I do wonder how did diesel get into the tank? The pump nozzle for the diesel fuel *should* have been too large to fit in the filler thingamajig on a gas powered car...That's interesting...diesel nozzles are larger then traditional ones? Makes perfect sense!!!! Pretty smart...but not smart enouh apparantly. Perhaps diesel nozzles should be square instead of round to prevent standard nozzles from fitting in diesel fillers, and vice versa.

TonyB · Post by **TonyB** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:22 pm

Guys, thanks for the prompt replies!joatmon, I read both of those links, and they did help. I guess I won't be wanting to change the fuel filter in the Vibe And that PDF is now on my desktop. I will indeed go into the tank via that route...ragingfish, thank you also! She did drive it until it would no longer operate It was only about .25 miles, but enough... The tank was nearly empty, so it was quite concentrated for sure...Ok, I'm going to push my luck here, but what size are those various bolts that I need to deal with? Heck, even a guess would be fine...I was going to start my next search, but I'll ask here also... I think I might need to get this diesel fuel out of the fuel rail and line to it, and I would love to find a nice diagram or photo of the routing, if available. I'm bringing a vacuum pump to help, but such a diagram would help immensely. Thanks much for the assistance!

TonyB · Post by **TonyB** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:34 pm

Looks like a couple more posts came-in while I was composing...Just to clarify, the tank was at "E" when she gassed-up. Apparently she got the diesel nozzle to work just fine. She said that it wasn't a problem (just asked her). Since the price was higher than a station we frequent near our home, she only put in 3 gallons, thankfully. She got only about .25 miles before it began running really bad. She called me, and said that she didn't want to drive it any further. She said that she still could still start it though. After I got there, after suveying things for a few minutes, I tried to start it, and it didn't fire-up. I tried two more times, and still nothing...

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:35 pm

not sure if this helps, but here is another one that talks about fuel injector replacemnet, seems to cover removing the fuel rail

Attached files x040001.pdf (109 KB)

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:30 pm

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish Â»That's interesting...diesel nozzles are larger then traditional ones? Makes perfect sense!!!! Pretty smart...but not smart enouh apparantly. Perhaps diesel nozzles should be square instead of round to prevent standard nozzles from fitting in diesel fillers, and vice versa. They *should* be larger from what I gather. I've done some googling that seems to support that, and I think I recall reading something to that effect in an owner's manual for a truck that had a diesel engine as an option. Plus the nozzle itself just looks bigger. Now, whether it is large enough to not fit at all, or if it is slightly larger to the point where you can get the nozzel into the filler neck, I can not say...TonyB, I feel for you guys. Glad you found us though, hopefully we can get you all the help you need througout this, looks like the guys have made a good start. Let us know if there is anything else you need to know. And once this is all over, I hope you enjoy what all this place has to offer. Good luck!!!

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:47 pm

This used to happen a lot when I worked at the GM Roadside Assistance center and when my wife worked at the VW Roadside Asst. Center. Some people caught it before the engine was started, others drove the vehicles. Driving them unfortunately makes for more of a clean up and can lead to more issues... Hopefully this is not the case with yours. Good luck.

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:19 pm

Quote, originally posted by TonyB Â» I'm bringing a vacuum pump to helpI would avoid this if it's powered in any way...I think they advise you to use a hand pump to reduce the risk that the pump could start a fire since it's dealing with fuel...

Mase · Post by **Mase** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:53 pm

Quote, originally posted by Kari Â»I would avoid this if it's powered in any way...I think they advise you to use a hand pump to reduce the risk that the pump could start a fire since it's dealing with fuel...Remember this story?http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=17042

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:57 pm

I am very sure he means a hand pump vacuum pump, like a Mity Vac. There is no electrical power to these, just a hand pump.

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:06 am

Quote, originally posted by Mase Â»Remember this story?http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=17042Yep, that's exactly what I was thinking of...better to be safe than sorry so I figured I'd better say something. Hopefully it is a hand vacuum pump though.

TonyB · Post by **TonyB** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:41 am

A very pleasant surprise to wake-up to more thoughtful and helpful replies! Thank you.Indeed, I was referring to a hand-operated Mity Vac type pump, like what many use for bleeding brake lines. Might come in handy today as I try to get this stuff out of the system...The PDF on the fuel rail and injectors is a big help! I'll printing that out as well...When I got home last night, my first inclination was to post on the forums for the car that I drive and wrench on, in the Off Topic Autos section. Heck, the guys there were great also! Here are two most recent comments:"Unhook your fuel line up by the injectors, and use the fuel pump to empty your lines/residual amount from tank. This after having siphoned off all you can manually. Refill with gasoline, the little diesel left should not cause a problem.""I say fix the car and get a new wife! J/K! MGCMan has it on the head. I am in Fuels in the military and deal with this all the time.There really is no need to drop the tank. Though it would help. Pull the shrader valve out at the Fuel rail if there is one. Use a tire shrader valve stem remover. If not there should be another place on the rail to check fuel pressure. You need to open the fuel system at the rail somewhere as close to the injectors as possible. Once opened, get a rag and drip pans to control what your about to do. Turn the key to the on position and let the fuel pump cycle. It will continue to run because it never reaches the regulators pressure. If the ECM is smart enough it may shut it off on its own. Just turn the key off and back on and it should run again. Let it run until it goes dry at the fuel rail. Put some regular gas in it this time, turn the key again to purge the line with gas. Be careful as the system can have a good bit of pressure.Once you get gas at the rail, plug it back up. Turn the key back on to cycle the pump and build the pressure back into the fuel system. Once you hear the pump shut itself off, try and fire it up. It may take a bit before it fires, but it will fire. Maybe run like poop for a few minutes. It will eventually straighten out. There is no way any internall damage could have been done. To the injectors, the pump or the valves. It just cant happen off of deisel. Now if we were talking about gas in a deisel, thats a different story.Worse thing that may have happened is the CEL light is on. Dont fear, its just from one of the gazillion sensors on the vehicles telling you something isnt right. After it has ran a bit, and it seems to be running normally, and if the light doesnt go out on its own, you can disonnect the batt for a few minutes to reset the EPROM chip in the ECM.But you dont have to take my advice, Im just some dood on the Inet!"========Time to start loading-up, and get to the office. A quick chat with my boss should net me the afternoon to get this done... I will indeed share how things go! Thank you.

TonyB · Post by **TonyB** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:14 am

I want to report back that my wife's Vibe is alive and running quite well now!!! Once fired-up, it shook and sputtered for a good 5 minutes, and there was plenty of funky smoke, but that was expected...The PDFs and other helpful info I printed from you all gave me much confidence on a car I really know little about. Thank you.The top my fuel tank didn't look much like the one in the PDF though, but it got me close enough to get creative. A connector there, and in the engine bay (fuel rail) looked fairly easy to open, but they read for one time use only... and w/o an extra, I was hesitant to go that route...I simply disco'd the fuel line from under the rear seat and hooked up a long tube to where it connected at the tank. This long tube or hose went into a bucket....The plan was to use the fuel pump to get out the diesel! However, the pump is only activated with the key in the start position, and that is not a good thing to have the engine trying to fire... So, I disco'd a connector to the starter, and life was grand as the pump pushed all of the diesel out I used a Mity Vac of sorts to suck-out the contents in the line going to the engine. I Didn't get a whole lot, but enough apparently...Thanks again!

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:17 am

Congratulations on the success! Very cool.

zionzr2 · Post by **zionzr2** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:06 pm

yea!!!glad your cooking with gas again!!! sorry about the pun

TonyB · Post by **TonyB** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:01 am

Thanks guys! You treated a stranger to this commnity very nicely. I've been checking-out this forum, and found that I wasn't the only one who had a tough time removing the original oil filter... Heck, I wish I would have known about this place when I was installing the aux input for our iPod. Oh well...I use the Vibe 3 days a week (Tue-Thu) for my commute as it gets slightly better gas mileage than my MINI, and it drinks 87 as opposed to 91. Mon and Fri, I treat myself to the MINI... I live in a canyon where the car is just a hoot and a half to drive!Remember to set the clocks back 1 hour tonight...

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:25 am

Quote, originally posted by TonyB Â»I want to report back that my wife's Vibe is alive and running quite well now!!! Once fired-up, it shook and sputtered for a good 5 minutes, and there was plenty of funky smoke, but that was expected...You know, the name of this car can sometimes lead to some interesting double meanings Quote, originally posted by TonyB Â»Thanks guys! You treated a stranger to this commnity very nicely. You aren't a stranger, you're a member

TonyB · Post by **TonyB** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:49 am

Indeed I am! Thank you. Wish I got the email alerts of a reply, but I'm working on it...

How to drain fuel tank?

How to drain fuel tank?

Re: How to drain fuel tank? (TonyB)

Re: How to drain fuel tank? (TonyB)

Re: How to drain fuel tank? (ragingfish)

Re: How to drain fuel tank? (ColonelPanic)

Re: How to drain fuel tank? (ragingfish)

Re: How to drain fuel tank? (TonyB)

Re: How to drain fuel tank? (ragingfish)

Re: How to drain fuel tank? (TonyB)

Re: How to drain fuel tank? (TonyB)

Re: How to drain fuel tank? (Kari)

Re: How to drain fuel tank? (Mase)

Re: How to drain fuel tank? (Mase)

Re: How to drain fuel tank? (Kari)

Re: How to drain fuel tank? (TonyB)

Re: How to drain fuel tank? (TonyB)

Re: (zionzr2)

Re: (TonyB)

Re: (joatmon)