Correct antifreeze for Vibe

[kac]

It was time to change the engine coolant on my 2003 Vibe and I found that no one could tell me with certainty what coolant should be in this car. The owner’s manual specifies GM 12378560, which I found out is the conventional green antifreeze. The coolant in my car did not look green; it actually looked orange when I shined a flashlight into the top of the radiator. So I questioned several dealers as to what coolant to use. Three of the four questioned said to use DEX-COOL, the fourth said conventional green. I also asked a couple Toyota dealers about the Matrix and they said Toyota Long Life Red. Still uncertain, I decided to call the GM customer service line and asked them. They asked for my VIN number and then told me that the factory fill should have been GM 12378560 (and that 2005 and later is DEX-COOL). They also said that I should only use what was originally installed and not to mix types: mixing the conventional silicate antifreeze with the new organic acid technology (OAT) antifreeze can cause problems. They recommended taking the car to a dealership for their assessment. I put some of the original fluid in a glass jar, and also put some DEX-COOL in a glass jar. At this point it became clear that my coolant was red, not orange like the DEX-COOL. I took the samples to some dealers and it was determined that I have Toyota Long Life Red in the car. That is what Toyota uses in the Matrix and that is what I will use. This is my concern for other Vibe owners. The Toyota Red container lists organic and inorganic acids, so I doubt it should be mixed with green. I also read that Toyota uses phosphates, so it may not mix with DEX-COOL. Beware: since the typical dealer service for coolant is to drain and fill, not completely flush, some people will have a good chance of their coolants being mixed with DEX-COOL or green because of the dealer misunderstanding of what goes in the Vibe. At the same time I verified that the Vibe automatic transmission takes Toyota T-IV fluid (not DEXRON III). Also, the power steering takes power steering fluid (not DEXRON III). The power steering was questioned due to the color of the fluid, clear not red. The preceding information is the result of hours of research and phone calls, and from my background as an engineer and years of working on my own cars. I believe it is correct, but if you have better information, please let me know. I sure found it frustrating that GM didn’t get the fluid requirements correct in the manual. If you covered this subject before, sorry, I am new to this forum.

[scherry2]

I took mine to the dealer and he suggested that I change over to the Green antifreeze, which i did. after all the problems i had with my blazer and a clogged heater core (which GM denys happens) I like prestone.

[GMJAP]

From what I recall, the Vibe comes from the factory with a Toyota coolant. If you get it flushed at a GM dealer, they'll use a GM coolant.See the post by mikey00 in the thread below for more info on the coolants used:http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=17555

[ColonelPanic]

Welcome aboard. The fluid issues have been kicked around here quite a bit, but don't feel bad for bringing it back up.The fluid situation with these cars has been a mess from the start. Things still aren't getting any better. Just last weekend I was at the dealer getting an oil change when I asked about the cost of a transmission fluid change. The service advisor gave me a blank look and said I shouldn't be at that point yet where the car requires a change (close to 60,000 miles.) I had to explain that the Toyota fluid in these transmissions doesn't have anywhere near the life expectancy as Dexron III and yes, I am getting quite close to needing a change. If anything, with the way I like to maintain my cars, I should have changed it quite some time ago but haven't done so. GM must be aware of people using the wrong fluid in the transmission though, as I recall something (perhaps in a GM Tech Link article) that stressed to use T-IV and NOT Dexron, as Dexron wasn't the proper fluid and would cause harsh shifts/etc...And if the power steering fluid takes regular power steering fluid, oops. I had to have the P/S pump replaced, and once everything got settled in, I found it was quite low on fluid. I do believe that the reservior cap said to put Dexron in it, so I topped it off with that. Owning GM cars up until this one, it certainly felt strange dumping transmission fluid down in there for the power steering...The coolant, ugh - that's been a monster of a debate. I don't recall exactly what we discovered the mystery substance the '03 and '04 cars had in them when they left the factory. It wasn't Dexcool, (05+ use Dexcool) but I think it was also determined that it probably wasn't the Toyota red long life stuff either. IIRC, it was something along the lines of the typical green coolant, only of a different color. I don't know though... So, yours had the Toyota stuff in it? Did you buy the car new? That sure puts an interesting spin on the argument. If that is the long life Toyota coolant, I'm not sure why GM called for a flush at 30K, that seems kind of odd. I had mine flushed shortly before the 30K mark and had the Toyota coolant put in it.

[kac]

I bought it new and the fluid in my car is from the factory. According to the Toyota dealer, they have a newer Extra Long Life Pink antifreeze (looks kind of red) that is used in the new cars in place of Long Life Red. Long must be a relative term for Toyota. I found several websites claiming that Toyota Long Life Red was conventional green antifreeze with red dye, but the ingredients are clearly different. Green uses silicates, phosphates and borates for corrosion control. The Toyota container lists organic acid salt (sodium benzoate) and hydrated inorganic acid salt and claims no silicates or borates. DEX-COOL lists sodium 2 ethyl hexanoate and sodium neodecanoate and has no silicates, phosphates or borates. I think the Ford and Daimler Chrysler coolants are hybrids. From reading the chemical lists on the containers, I don’t think any of the new varieties are really compatible. They must all work (companies spent a lot of development dollars on them) but if I was to change coolants I would thoroughly flush the system and start over. And always use distilled water instead of tap water.

[NSimkins]

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic »I don't recall exactly what we discovered the mystery substance the '03 and '04 cars had in them when they left the factory. It wasn't Dexcool, (05+ use Dexcool) but I think it was also determined that it probably wasn't the Toyota red long life stuff either.I think I had it squared away, at least the part about which years had which type of coolant here:http://forums.genvibe.com/zero...06195This is a neverending quest for coolant knowledge it seems.. I'm overdue and I'm contemplating calling up a local Toyota dealer to see if they would work on my Toyota "Vibe".

[the1stacekiller]

Anybody used the new Prestone Advanced (that you can mix with any coolant or top up any car) its 5 year Warranty .. ? would this be a good solution to the Coolant confusion??Oh and glad to be part of this forum

[Flip-Side]

Simply put, the 2003 vibe used standard "Ethylene Glycol" coolant. You know the green stuff? It is the exact same thing, but it is simply a different color. Don't ask why but it is. Toyota long life is a different coolant altogether, as is Dexcool. I hate dexcool because of all the issues I had with it in past vehicles, so my opinion remains to use standard coolant. This was my rant, along with other members long ago about this debate.http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=6940

[jasonvibe]

my '05 manual states to use Dexcool. Maybe that is GM politics working I don't know. BUT you should not let it stay in longer than 5 years or 100k. Since most of us won't hit 100k in 5 years just remember 5 years. I used it in my '95 Bonneville from 33 to 120k. Changed it 2 times. Once due to a repair and once because the 5 years was up. The car always ran cool. No heater core issues. Yes it was an iron block engine. But all coolants say they are safe with aluminum. Also when I looked at 2004 Vibes last year. The dealer let me look in the owners manual it stated, "use Dexcool". Per the 2004 manual,"Your vehicles coolant is designed to last up to 100k miles or 5 years". My manual also states to use Dextron 3 type H for the power steering. The steering fluid is dark. So I must believe. So I think reading is in order???

[GMJAP]

Quote, originally posted by jasonvibe »my '05 manual states to use Dexcool. Maybe that is GM politics working I don't know. BUT you should not let it stay in longer than 5 years or 100k. Since most of us won't hit 100k in 5 years just remember 5 years. I used it in my '95 Bonneville from 33 to 120k. Changed it 2 times. Once due to a repair and once because the 5 years was up. The car always ran cool. No heater core issues. Yes it was an iron block engine. But all coolants say they are safe with aluminum. Also when I looked at 2004 Vibes last year. The dealer let me look in the owners manual it stated, "use Dexcool". Per the 2004 manual,"Your vehicles coolant is designed to last up to 100k miles or 5 years". My manual also states to use Dextron 3 type H for the power steering. The steering fluid is dark. So I must believe. So I think reading is in order???I think the consensus here is that the Vibe has Toyota fluids from the factory, but GM will use (& recommend) GM fluids for maintenance/ service.

[binary]

I agree.If it looks like toyota red, smells like toyota red, and tastes like....Well - It's toyota red coolant - and that's would I would put back in it.

[jake75]

This has been the strangest thing about the Vibe - seems that GM and their dealer service departments should be able to keep this straight. I changed the original coolant (whatever it was) at the dealer at 2 years. I think they put in Dexcool. But I will change it again in another 2 years. My theory is whatver they used/use will be o.k., as long as you change it every two years. It may cost me a small amount of extra $$$ but I think it is worth the peace of mind.

[03VibeGT6Spd]

this past summer while driving to New Orleans I noticed my coolent was low. I stopped in a MS. town just south of Memphis TN., I bought Toyota red it was like $16.00 a gallon.The worst part is, I forgot to bring back what was left over from New Orleans.

[Atomb]

couldn't i just walk into a toyota dealership and ask to buy some coolant for my "matrix" and get the correct stuff?

[bud_one]

yea...that's what I did....

[jasonvibe]

They fill the radiator/cooling system in California at the assy. plant. So I believe now it is Dexcool. Otherwise they would not state the 5/100 rating. Also all coolants are good for a min. of 3 years or 36k. These systems hold so little coolant that a flush is an easy thing.

[robdog]

i had the prestone 50k stuff put in. had no problems at all, had it flushed then filled.

[21Rouge]

Quote, originally posted by jasonvibe »They fill the radiator/cooling system in California at the assy. plant. So I believe now it is Dexcool. Otherwise they would not state the 5/100 rating.So Jason you think the 2005 and '06 Vibes are Dexcool filled? Isnt Toyota's Superlong Life Pink also a 5/100 candidate?

[mikey00]

Quote, originally posted by jasonvibe »They fill the radiator/cooling system in California at the assy. plant. So I believe now it is Dexcool. Otherwise they would not state the 5/100 rating. Also all coolants are good for a min. of 3 years or 36k. These systems hold so little coolant that a flush is an easy thing.It's Toyota Ultra Long Life Pink which is 5/100 rating. The Vibe manual says DexCool but that is not what is in the car. It's not a big deal because DexCool can be mixed with Toyota Ultra Long Life Pink. However, I plan on sticking with Toyota Ultra Long Life Pink all the way.