Full Synthetic vs. Blends.

[Cougar Vibe]

Though I know it's not necessary according to the Owner's Manual, I'm going to do my first oil change at 500 miles (the Vibe I bought is a 2005 and I don't know how long the oil has been in it anyway). So, while researching synthetics and blends, I narrowed my choices to Mobil 1 (full synth) and Mobil Clean 7500 (30% synth). Considering the fact that I'll be changing my oil on a 7500 mile/6 month schedule, is there any real reason to spring for the Mobil 1 when the Mobil 7500 would seem to do the job? Normally, I wouldn't consider a blend since most literature suggests that they only contain Lastly, is anybody using a Mobil 1/Mobil 7500 and PureOne filter combination? The PureOne rates pretty well (in fact, Mobil recommends it)...but I want it to go a full 7500 between changes. Any thoughts or opinions?Thanks...Cougar Vibe

[goodvibe]

If you've got a base, the blend should be finr but the 2zz would probably rip it up.

[GMJAP]

Quote, originally posted by goodvibe »If you've got a base, the blend should be finr but the 2zz would probably rip it up.What do you mean by "rip it up"? Is there some reason a GT shouldn't use a blend?

[Mavrik]

I would only run full synthetic and I use Mobil 1

[djb383]

You may want to look at the fine print on the back of the Mobil 1 bottle. I believe it says if your vehicle is under warranty, follow the manufacturers maintenance schedule. The manual in my '05 Vibes says change oil and filter every 5000 miles or 3 months whichever comes first. Synthetic oil will not keep the inside of your engine any cleaner than regular oil. The crud that forms inside your engine is simply the result of the internal combustion process. The way to keep the engine clean internally is frequent oil and filter changes to remove the crud that forms. In driving 7500 miles I would rather use regular oil and change it twice instead of once and spend half as much money. Synthetic oils are great and will provide better protection under extreme high temp conditions but they will not prevent or slow down the crud that forms inside an internal combustion engine. Nothing will prevent the crud from forming, but frequent oil and filter changes will prevent it from building up. An AC Delco filter (PF1233) is about as good as you can get, but far from the most expensive. Just my $0.02. Love those Vibes - just bought my second one!

[Altus]

Here's a little thought that gets me though....American owners manual says change the oil every 5k miles = 8k kilometersCanadian owners manual says change the oil every 5k kilometers = 3,100 miles.Hmmm.... so which to believe......

[Mr. Poopypants]

I have a base and use only Mobil 1, I have not had any problems with it.

[goodvibe]

My 03 GT stated 7500 mi max. The 2zz will shear and contaminate the oil quicker if you use a Gt like most do. I like 5k changes with a good oil and don't think synth is a requirement. Frequent dino changes won't clean an engine but it helps keep things from getting dirty. I wouldn't use synth until 5k. Even Redline recommends not to.

[northvibe]

i just changed the oil in my base3k mile after i bought it and i will always do 3k changed with mobil 1 5000 standard oil and a p something filter they had a fleetfarm as everyone says the fram's are kinda krusty filters no days

[21Rouge]

Quote, originally posted by djb383 »You may want to look at the fine print on the back of the Mobil 1 bottle. I believe it says if your vehicle is under warranty, follow the manufacturers maintenance schedule. The manual in my '05 Vibes says change oil and filter every 5000 miles or 3 months whichever comes first. That must be the severe schedule. There is a reference to an OCI up to 7500 miles or 12 months. So if one is just considering warranty requirements I think you could easily justify an OCI from anywhere up to the 7500/12 mo.

[theangrydwarf1]

Hey djb383,What part of West Tx are you from? I'm also from west tx.Now, back on topic. I switched this last oil change to Castrol syntec. I've got 60,000+ miles and change it every 3k.

[Houston]

I've always questioned this idea of changing oil every three months when few miles are driven. Owners of classic vehicles don't even come close to doing it this often and they make out just fine. I'd like to see other's thoughts on this.

[djb383]

My guess is colder weather in Canada will cause the formation of crud inside the engine sooner so shorter drain intervals are are needed to remove the crud.

[Flip-Side]

I don't really see the point in bothering with a blend. If you want additional benefits, you may as well go full synthetic. Blends don't even have a 50/50 mix, so why pay so much more? I have used Amsoil since the vibe was new with 10,000 mile changes. Smooth sailing.

[Cougar Vibe]

Well, after cruising a few Matrix/Corolla related forums, I decided to go with the Toyo filter and Mobil 1 (seems to be a pretty popular combo). Anyway, I head over to the local Toyota dealer to pick up a couple of filters ($4.75 per) and when I get home, I notice the part number on the filter is different than the Toyo part number most people here are using. The filter number I've got is "90915-YZZF2" whereas the number I've seen around here is "90915-YZZA2." Is there any difference between them?Also, I haven't seen anybody mention pre-oiling the filter since it's vertically mounted...necessary or not?BTW: I mentioned to the Toyo parts guy that I was using Mobil 1 and he "advised" me that Toyota does not recommend using pure synthetic oil. (Of course, after saying this he also told me that several guys at the dealership do use it without problem). Cougar Vibe

[Flip-Side]

Quote, originally posted by Cougar Vibe »BTW: I mentioned to the Toyo parts guy that I was using Mobil 1 and he "advised" me that Toyota does not recommend using pure synthetic oil. (Of course, after saying this he also told me that several guys at the dealership do use it without problem). No, he is dumb. Synthetic is not required in the vibe/matrix, but it is nice to use. The stock toyota filter should do ok, but I use synthetic specific filters that don't use tons of cellulose fiber. Mobil, amsoil, and several others are available.

[21Rouge]

Quote, originally posted by Cougar Vibe »The filter number I've got is "90915-YZZF2" whereas the number I've seen around here is "90915-YZZA2." Is there any difference between them?Also, I haven't seen anybody mention pre-oiling the filter since it's vertically mounted...necessary or not?Cougar VibeI think these are the same filters with 'F' the new version. The difference is that this new version comes with grease on the filter seal to help make a complete oil tight seal.

[goodvibe]

Pre oiling is never a bad idea. The engine will be dry for a moment while the filter fills with oil before it continues into the motor if you don't. It doesn't matter what the filter orientation is. Horizomtal filters have an anti-drain-back valve to hold oil in the filter when sitting for this reason.

[cknight725]

I have a lengthy reply in this thread ... basically, its 90% academic and it all comes down to how much you want to spend, how you drive, and how often you do oil changes ...http://forums.genvibe.com/zero...age=2

[cknight725]

"" You may want to look at the fine print on the back of the Mobil 1 bottle. I believe it says if your vehicle is under warranty, follow the manufacturers maintenance schedule. The manual in my '05 Vibes says change oil and filter every 5000 miles or 3 months whichever comes first. Synthetic oil will not keep the inside of your engine any cleaner than regular oil. The crud that forms inside your engine is simply the result of the internal combustion process. The way to keep the engine clean internally is frequent oil and filter changes to remove the crud that forms. In driving 7500 miles I would rather use regular oil and change it twice instead of once and spend half as much money. Synthetic oils are great and will provide better protection under extreme high temp conditions but they will not prevent or slow down the crud that forms inside an internal combustion engine. Nothing will prevent the crud from forming, but frequent oil and filter changes will prevent it from building up. An AC Delco filter (PF1233) is about as good as you can get, but far from the most expensive. Just my $0.02. Love those Vibes - just bought my second one! ""Not entirely true ... the crud that builds up is sludge and is the result of the oil breaking down and the waxes suspended in the oil burning.Some oils suffer this more than others -- Pennzoil for one. Its not so much a characteristic of Conventional vs. Synthetic -- its more about a really bad formulation vs a good formulation.Friends don't let friends run Pennzoil ....

[Cougar Vibe]

I don't know if this is due to break-in, the use of Mobil1, or a combination of the two, but I swear my idle RPM's are lower (about 800) under the same temp conditions.Unfortunately, since I switched over so early (800 miles), I didn't get a chance to really baseline RPM's and fuel mileage before full break-in. For those of you that did switch later on, did you see a drop in idle RPM's?Thanks.Cougar Vibe

[djb383]

I drove a '79 Chevy Caprice for 331000 miles. It never had a drop of anything other than Pennzoil 10W-30. Engine was running perfect when pulled. I gave the car to my son and we installed a ZZ4 crate motor. We decided to disassemble the 331K original motor to prep for a rebuild. It was very clean and sludge free on the inside. All 16 lifters were removed with our fingers. (I have seen engines with with only 50K miles that required a lifter removal tool to get the lifters out because sludge was so bad due to infrequent maintenance.) The machine shop told me our old 331K motor did not need to be "vatted" but we did anyway since it was there. Shop also said all 8 cylinders were " in spec" and only needed to be honed, not bored. We went back in with the original pistons with new rings. Engine now has an additional 62K miles in a '64 Chevy P/U and runs great with Pennzoil 10W-30 changed every 2500-3000 miles. Now here is the amazing part - in addition to using Pennzoil for all those miles with no sludge problems, I have also only used Fram oil filters. I tell all my friends that I have used Pennzoil for a long time, I just don't go a long time between oil and filter changes.

[goodvibe]

I was going to point out situtions like yours but wasn't going to get into it again. Pennzoil is currently VG oil and good for 5k changes on a base and 4k on a GT. Havoline is my favorite dino and Valvoline seems to expire the fastest. If you don't live where temps get below 0*, just use 10w30 and it will have less issues with break down. It's the viscosity additives that tend to shear and not the oil. Havoline is the best at this followed by Pennzoil. Unless you're doing extended drains synth doesn't get you much. Fram fiters are not the best but filters aren't that important. Even though they have questionable construction and less media, it doesn't seem to cause problems in normal use of 3k oil changes. Good enough is good enough but I don't use em. Havoline will show extremly low wear in most applications. Virtually all current oils are refined grp II to meet API specs and wax has nothing to do with sludge build up in problem motors. Synth doesn't get you better mileage or less wear but if your vehicle sees an extended racing or drain situation, it will hold up better. Some people will see a 1 mpg increase in mileage from switching oils but it's from the viscosity being on the thinner side of the weight scale in the change. M1 has always done this. The EP versions are a bit thicker. People often get worse mileage from Castrol 0w30 due to it being on the extreme thick side of 30w and it may be the best oil available. Other Castrol viscosities are not the same. Turbos and poorly designed oil systems also benefit greatly from synth do to hugher than normal heat. Neither applies to us. Any oil without modern additives will not protect well enough. Too much emphasis is put on the base oil. Any SM rated oil will do a great job. http://theoildrop.server101.co...02913

[vibebob]

I had an 02 VW Golf with a diesel engine and it was recommended to use fully synthetic oil. the oil change schedule was at the first 1,000 miles, then at 5,000 then again at 10,000 miles and then every 10,000 miles there after. there is something about going 10K miles between oil changes that I couldn't get used to. and you couldn't tell jack by looking at the oil. change it and by the time you get home it is black, the nature of diesel engines.

[Faultline]

What is all this about changing the oil?...you're suppose to change the oil?...what oil?

[Faultline]

Quote, originally posted by vibebob »I had an 02 VW Golf with a diesel engine and it was recommended to use fully synthetic oil. the oil change schedule was at the first 1,000 miles, then at 5,000 then again at 10,000 miles and then every 10,000 miles there after. there is something about going 10K miles between oil changes that I couldn't get used to. and you couldn't tell jack by looking at the oil. change it and by the time you get home it is black, the nature of diesel engines.I have a new work truck with a Mercedes deisel in it. The medium duty driving (city driving) recomends 15k intervals!...I cant do it! I always thought that diesels had more contaminents (sp) in it, that eventhough synthetics wont break down as fast, you should change diesel oil all the more because of the contaminents.Yep , I change the oil every 6k..it has a big pan, delo 15/40 dino for me.