Will Toyota be GM's next victim?

[BryanC7020]

In the early 90's, GM began a "partnership" with saab, a flagship company of European engineering, listed amongs the ranks of BMW and Jaguar. In the early 2000's GM bought out saab entirely, making them yet another victim of the big bad car company, in my opinion the Microsoft of the car company.Now that GM has finally got a foothold in Toyota, it wont be long until they have the company firmly in there grasp.Any opinions on when/if Toyota will become the next victim of a GM buyout? What a shame that would be with Toyota giving us some of the greatest cars of all time, starting in the 70's with the early Corolla's, which were used as both road racing and offroad rally cars, then the AE86 Corolla, probably the best balanced car on the road even till today, and probably the best known drift car, and on up through the years with various Celica's, Supra's, and other great cars of our times. What a shame it would be if GM got there hands on Toyota and americanized and cheapened such a strong brand.

[micbarric]

I don't think there is any possible chance GM will, or can, buy Toyota. GM is suffering market share loss and has been losing money while Toyota has been gaining market share and has been making record profits. Toyota could buy GM! Notice that Toyota, unlike other automakers, has not bought out or merged with any other car companies. They have concentrated only on their own cars and trucks with great success.

[tnpartsguy]

If anything, maybe it would bring GM's quality up, and increase the ammenaties. Toyota will be the #1 car manafactuer in a few years, no way could GM buy them....but they might buy GM, except GM has too much debt, and too many union agreements.BTW; GM also owns part of Subaru, Isuzu, and owns Daewoo (Automotive) outright.

[BryanC7020]

If GM bought out Toyota, I would never own another new car, ever :-Phmmm, maybe a Nissan for my next car.....right now tho I just need a cheap car to get me to work and back while the wife just "has" to have the car. I originally bought it for her thinking it would just be another family wagon-mobile, but now I am kinda hooked, and seeing as how her name isnt on the title..... hehe ^-^Still cant wait for my mods to come in, I just bought a front strut brace, rear sway bar, some stainless steel door sills with "Vibe" Inscribed on them, and a new aluminum antenna for the back, yay ^-^

[jake75]

Well - stranger things have happened. Look at bankrupt K-Mart coming back and buying out Sears! But I agree with the consensus that GM buying out Toyota is more than a bit off the wall. As for Toyota buying GM, I doubt that they would risk taking on the liabilities.

[jeffgtx]

there are so many external factors... i always thought a merger was more possible, before GM debt rating downgrade. if they got that strightened out, its probably more likely.but it sure sounds odd, eve in this day and age.

[joatmon]

The vibe isn't the first collaboration between Toyota and GM.If you are so dead set against having anything to do with GM, I sure hope you bought a Matrix instead of a Vibe.

[ragingfish]

(A) Saab is one of the few brands under the GM umbrella that has consistently performed well.(B) GM hasn't gotten any "foothold" in Toyota. If you refer to the Vibe, it was a joint effort in which more of the car is Toyota then GM.(C) Toyota will NOT buy GM, and GM will NOT buy Toyota. They will never merge. GM North America may be in a somewhat stilted state of success at the moment, but keep in mind, they're global brands are still doing excellently. Even if GM NA hits a low point (which with their slow rise back to success I highly doubt we'll see), they have tons of other brands in the world that can keep them going.(D) Toyota HAS NOT given us "some of the greatest cars of all time." They have some good sellers, but that hardly makes them great. It just makes them popular. Has anyone NOT noticed that the lowest ranking car in quality in the Pontiac lineup is the only car that is not a full GM? Yes. The Vibe.(E) GM bashing is not necessarily a good idea on this site...besides the fact numerous members here WORK for them, most of us bought the Vibe because of it's GM connection, and NOT the Toyota connection. I personally would've preferred the Vibe to be an all-GM car with a true GM ECOTEC engine and powertrain... If you wanna bash the Vibe or GM, do us a favor and take it to Toyota Nation or some other heavily biased site.(F) Didn't Sears and K-mart merge? I'm 99% sure that K did not buy Sears, but they merged to save K from complete chapter 11 closure.(G) Toyota's massive momentum from the past few years is leveling off. They've made amazing strides in progress, but the fact is, with Chrysler regaining popularity, and even GM's brands starting to see success again with the upcoming new cars like the Solstice, Sky, and AURA, I honestly think GM will begin to take off again.

[BryanC7020]

you take me all wrong ragingfish, I have no problem with GM, I just hate to see so few chances for "the little guy", and when I see a huge company like GM start to take over, it makes it very obvious to me that the room for the little guy is quickly closing, and the last thing this world needs is another microsoft, however I dont see GM being as bad as MS, when they bought out Saturn they paid a very fair price for the business, and the quality of Saturn cars went through the roof compared to what they were before. A Saturn Vue passed me on the highway this morning looking very sharp, first time I have ever been impressed with a Saturn.Anyways, please dont take it as that I hate GM, just I would hate to see GM buy out Toyota, who, still, in my opinion, have produced some of the greatest cars of all time, not according to the most horsepower or features, but bang for the buck and actual driving performance for what they have.

[ragingfish]

Saturn has ALWAYS been a GM company! GM launched the brand in the early 90s.And Toyota is hardly "the little guy."

[BryanC7020]

well I am sure there are other examples out there... anyways, I wasnt saying Toyota was "the little guy", I was referring to anybody that wanted to start their own car company.

[JohnC]

Quote, originally posted by BryanC7020 »In the early 90's, GM began a "partnership" with saab, a flagship company of European engineering, listed amongs the ranks of BMW and Jaguar. I owned a 76 Saab wagon...the worst car I have ever had the displeasure of owning (pushing).As far as accuisions and mergers, the world is getting smaller and there is political and economical factors that drive the decisions. As long as GM continues to increase the quality of it's products then they will stay a healthy and wealthy company.Is the Vibe really the lowest rated GM product?I thought the ecotech engine found in most small GMs is really outdated and gets poor fuel mileage while not much torque. At least that what I read in the car mags, I haven't driven one.

[BryanC7020]

I love my Vibe, I drove a matrix the other day, I wouldnt have it over my vibe

[northvibe]

yea im still not getting how the vibe could be the lowest quality pontiac....I love my vibe too and i also would take it over a matrixmy friend has a cavy w/ ecotech seems like a ok engine w/ the hp/torq it has the cavy can move, but the other parts of his car have been crappy and falling apart :/ some part in his engine compartment also died...but i cant remember fuel pump maybe.

[B18B]

Don't kid yourself about a GM takeover of Toyota guys. Toyota's market capitlalization alone is greater than that of GM's and Ford's combined...

[ColonelPanic]

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »(D) Toyota HAS NOT given us "some of the greatest cars of all time." Well by golly, that sure fooled me! I thought they did, I mean, the Vibe's the bestest car ever! I've gone 2 weeks now without having mine in the shop! I'm loving that awesome Toyota reliability! *gag*Say, what's the sucking sound? Ahh, that's nothing other than my engineered and built by Toyota Vibe out there in the parking lot. To be brutally honest, I wouldn't give a rat's (removed) at this point if someone like Ford ended up consuming Toyota. I thought I was going to get something "reliable" when I bought this worthless piece of crap, after all that's all I've ever heard from the Toyota people all my fricken life! Damn, reality is a beeyoch sometimes...Nobody should be worried about Toyota being consumed by anyone... They've got too much money, power, and arrogance to let any of that happen.

[Mavrik]

in canada, K-mart and Zellers merged into Zellers...and GM will always be GM... I don't forsee anything soon in GM being owned by a bunch of japanese

[ColonelPanic]

I hope so... I wouldn't buy GM again if they were owned by Toyota, that's for sure. I've had enough of them with this one little car... No more yota for me!

[goodvibrations]

Just curious?Where did you get this information about Vibe as the lowest rank Pontiac product in initial quality. I am a subscriber to the consumer report and the vibe is a recommended car .

[ColonelPanic]

http://www.tctimes.com/site/ne...rfi=8

[JohnC]

Quote, originally posted by goodvibrations »Just curious?Where did you get this information about Vibe as the lowest rank Pontiac product in initial quality. I am a subscriber to the consumer report and the vibe is a recommended car .Here is what it said at the bottom about the stats in the article."Statistics excerpted from GM President John Smith's remarks to GM dealers, March 2005."Hmmm...bias?

[goodvibrations]

Interesting! Thanks.I still have to go with the consumer reports. When I bought my car the dealer offered to give me a bug deflector to put completely satisfied on the survey. Logic says why not, not going to change my life. Makes you wonder about surveys.

[jake75]

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »(E) GM bashing is not necessarily a good idea on this site...besides the fact numerous members here WORK for them, most of us bought the Vibe because of it's GM connection, and NOT the Toyota connection. (F) Didn't Sears and K-mart merge? I'm 99% sure that K did not buy Sears, but they merged to save K from complete chapter 11 closure.Maybe someone can (or perhaps has) done a poll on the question "did you buy a Vibe based on its GM Connection or its Toyota Connection?I suspect that over 50% would say because of its Toyota connection. That's the button I would push. Why did I buy a Vibe instead of a Matrix then? $5,053 off MSRP that's why. As for K-Mart, they came out of Chapter 11 and then acquired Sears. Then K-Mart was renamed Sears because as we know from Rainman, "K-Mart Sucks!"

[ColonelPanic]

I don't know why the hell I ended up with it... I assume being victim of the Toyota Brainwashing Syndrome (from here on out, I shall refer to said condition as T.B.S.) had something to do with it. Apparently T.B.S. made me believe that the Vibe was going to be the most reliable vehicle on the lot.I was dead wrong. Dead, dead, dead fricken' wrong. So yes, I guess it was the "Toyota" "connection" that made me buy the piece of crap. Luckily, I have seen the light and will never buy another one. Thank you Toyota - I went into the purchase of this car not thinking so highly of GM, but dang, GM's sitting pretty in my book right now. I'm still glad I bought the car and for obvious reasons but good god this thing....

[kostby]

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »(C) Toyota will NOT buy GM, and GM will NOT buy Toyota. They will never merge. NEVER is a very long time, Mike!Toyota has succeeded in doing what it does exceptionally well. They build and successfully market a PROFITABLE AND DIVERSE mix of vehicles that are FOR THE MOST PART relatively unobtrusive, basically reliable (Col. Panic notwithstanding) reasonably efficient, unexciting 'appliances' with doors, fenders, a trunk, and an engine, for affluent Americans who don't want to worry about their cars.Oh yeah, and over they years, they've managed to develop a relationship with TRD and hundreds of aftermarket JDM and SEMA parts-hustlers who'll sell you all the stuff you need to make your unobtrusive, reliable, efficient, unexciting Toyota appliance into an eye-popping art object with lambo doors, a 50-shot of laughing-gas for that turbo-boosted intercooled grenade under the hood, waiting to explode out of your driveway like a hyper-roller-coaster-ride at triple-digit speeds. In case anyone cares.

[ragingfish]

Consumer Reports is one of the WORST sources for UNBIASED information!If it's not an import, it's CRAP to them! (*mental flashback to SNL skit "if it's not scottish, it's crrrrap!*). Seriously though, the only reason CR recommends the Vibe is because it has the toyota powertrain, and toyota is god to CR. If you want REAL unbiased reviews you will go to a different source.That being said, CP beat me to the punch. An excerpt from that article can't say it much more straightforward:Quote, originally posted by Tri-County Times 05/31/05 » GM's lowest quality-rated vehicle is the Pontiac Vibe, assembled in California by - you guessed it - Toyota.there was another article i read that confirmed it as well, just trying to find it...

[ColonelPanic]

Quote, originally posted by kostby »(Col. Panic notwithstanding)Ooh, (dis?)honorable mention. hehehe I really don't see how I sleep at night. Oh wait, it's night and I'm still awake. I guess that's I don't see how I can sleep during the day... Ahh, I love having this gift. It's so nice being able to ruin things for everybdy. *evil laugh!*

[JohnC]

In the past 30 years, here are the new GM and Toyota vehicles I have bought along with my experience with them.73 El Camino- great car, gas was cheap. (bought 3 yrs used)76 Nova- not so great, things regularly fell off/broke, good engine. Paint flaked off.79 Corona- excellent car/engine, weak AC, 24 mpg. Excellent resale81 GMC Cabellero V6(El Camino) POS, got rid of it within 2 months of buying it I really hated this thing. Poor quality/lotsa problems.82 Olds Cutlas Ciera (new model yr) Great car for 20k miles then it left me stranded 3 times in the next 6 months. Was at the dealer more than home. Made the Cabellero seem dependable. Kept it for a couple more years while I saved $$ for a good car. AAA was about to give me the boot. Didn't go many places during this time. Swore that I would NEVER BUY ANOTHER GM PRODUCT. Could not sale this car, ended up giving it to junk yard. No paint left on hood, top or trunk.86 Toyota Corolla- Excellent appliance car, 36 mpg, no problems, good AC, boring to look at and drive. Great resale.90 Chev 1/2 ton extended cab- Good truck, decent mpg (17-19). Yeah I know I swore "never again", it was a discounted last of the model year deal. Saved my wife's life when we were T-boned into her door. Truck was stollen twice, chevy trucks very popular/easy to steal.04 Vibe- Several small problems when new and a allignment problem that ended up costing me an extra $550 due to dealer incompetents. Only reason I considered buying it was that it is a Toyota and it was $3500 cheaper than a Matrix.I have had 3 Nissan Z cars, all mave been great, all had weak AC. Several Ford pickups never needing to go back to the dealer for any warranty work. A Dodge mini van and a Neon, both good vehicles. Consumer Reports has been fairly accurate with the strenths and weaknesses of most of my vehicles. It does seem they give the Asian manufactures the benefit of the dought while not trusting the domestic companies. Guess you got to earn that trust.In general...I do not like nor trust GM, thier first model year vehicles are an experiment at the buyers exspence. The dealerships either do not know or will not admit to knowing about very common problems. Warranty work is ussualy poor quallity, not getting fixed the first try.I believe the article in question here is pure propaganda put forth by GM management to GM dealers and "reported" on by a GM sympathtic paper. This is just my 30 years of experiance and hard earned $$ talking here. You can believe the GM hype if you choose to.

[micbarric]

Quote, originally posted by JohnC »In general...I do not like nor trust GM..."We've been around too long, and people have heard all our lies. We just have to deliver." -Rick Wagoner, GM chairman and CEO in Fortune magazine If the CEO of GM can admit this, there is genuine hope for GM's future.

[goodvibrations]

Sorry you feel that way about the Consumer Report. But why would you consider them biased? Hard to deny facts. They speak quite highly of the Vibe and the Vibe has proven its self. I have more faith in a magazine that does not advertise and buys it own cars to test than a magazine (Consumer Digest) who gets free-bees or articles written by those who personally benefits from the comments they make. Contrary to what you say Consumer Report does not play favorites. Consumer Reports does not benefit by giving a car company high marks in fact they will take legal action against any company who uses their articles to benefit financial. As Nu finish found out when they printed on their bottles they were rated number one by consumer report. Also note they provide information submitted by owners about their satisfaction with their Cars. If owners of these cars were happy with their purchase it would be reflected in the annual review. Don't get me wrong I am very happy with my purchase. but I would be lying if I said that the fact that this car had a Toyota engine and drive-train didn't influence my purchase. Or the Consumer Report didn't play any part. No I don't work for consumer reports but they have proven them selves to be right time and time again.

[djpositivek]

Here's why I bought my Vibe (in no particular order):Very practical vehicle (roomy, fold down seats etc...)We have a dog and a baby on the wayGood gas mileageEmployee Pricing, $1000 GM Believer discount & Grad rebate (first 2 payments made by GM)Toyota powertrain/partsGood reviews from owners as well as comments on this websiteFun to drive & nice interiorHad exact package that we wanted (matrix didn't) - must purchase power package to get A/CLike the styling better than some other cars including MatrixSalesman was good and didn't try to bull$hit me.

[ColonelPanic]

Quote, originally posted by djpositivek »Toyota powertrain/partsThose are the very things that are giving me fricken ulcers... I'm glad you guys are having good luck with yours, I don't wish this on anybody. I'm stuck and can't do a damn thing about it. Frustrated, scared, angry, and just plain ol' stuck. I've still got warranty coverage, but each time I get something fixed, either that breaks again or something else breaks, and ARRRGH! Kinda like how it needs its 4th A/C compressor, which the thing hasn't even been on there a month and it's shot again. What?I give up. I've said it before, but I really do this time. Sorry for the rant. I guess I'm just jealous. Your cars are just great, and mine sucks bigtime... Enjoy your Toyotas.

[BryanC7020]

First of all, I find it unlikely that anybody that hated their Vibe so much would be designated as a "GenVibe God" on a forum strictly dedicated to their "crappy car sitting in the parking lot."Second of all, I have driven many cars on a regular basis, ranging from BMW's (my personal favorite right next to saab's), all the way down to the lowest grade "I can barely fit two people in here and make it go" geo's (prizm and storm in particular). In my experience with driving these cars, I have been particularly unhappy with the quality of every single GM car I have ever driven, except for the vibe.99% of the GM vehicles that I have driven have rattled, creaked, shaken, etc. I recently drove a brand new Buick LeSabre as a loaner while they attempted, again, to fix my Cavalier (one of the biggest peices of ****, imo, that I have ever driven, I would honestly rather have the Geo Storm), and again I was singularly unimpressed. The C-Pillar covers didnt even cover the entire C-pillar, and vibrated like all hell, the dash creaked like it was being squashed by a freight train every time I even changed lanes, and on top of that, GM is the only company I know of that STILL puts the shifter on the tree! I mean come on GM, this is not the early 70's anymore! Get with the show!My wife and I's 2000 Chevy Cavalier (previously mentioned) has 73K babied miles on it. I took it in one day to have it fixed because the brakes felt a little too loose to me and I didnt like it. They quoted me almost $500 in repairs for two rear wheel bearings, new pads all around, resurfacing all four rotors, and a new HVAC sensor near the back of the car (which, though they admitted it was bad straight from the factory, forced me to pay for it, -100 for GM). As soon as I got the car back, it felt fine, two days later after driving it a bit, everytime I touched the brakes I felt I would get whiplash as when one of the rotors went around it was scraping against the pad due to misalignment (or so they told me), and they had to pay out of pocket to replace a warped rotor.I have now had this car to them SIX TIMES, and thursday will be my SEVENTH TIME to take this peice of shi* car to these morons to have it fixed, as now when I touch the brake pedal hardly at all it will lock the brakes up so much that the ABS kicks in, and when it doesnt do that the brake stutter is so bad I got pulled over by a cop the other day who thought I was drunk and pumping the pedal by mistake!I will NEVEr, EVER buy a GM car or truck, EVER in my entire life, and I dont care WHAT the statisics say.Yes my vibe has things I dont like about it. For one, when you get about 85 the acceleration is about as quick as a drugged lab monkey, and passing on the highway is damn near impossible without A. putting your foot in it or B. taking OD off.But there are SO many other things I LOVE about my Vibe, in fact, that is the only thing I have found so far that I DONT like about my Vibe.So as for this whole GM/Toyota war, the "media" can keep your opinion, I make my own.

[ColonelPanic]

Quote, originally posted by BryanC7020 »First of all, I find it unlikely that anybody that hated their Vibe so much would be designated as a "GenVibe God" on a forum strictly dedicated to their "crappy car sitting in the parking lot."Believe whatever you would like believe. The service history on this particular car speaks volumes. Once again, since we have so many new people here, I guess I have to apologize again... I'M SO SORRY THAT I HAVE TO KEEP COMING HERE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THESE STUPID PROBLEMS THAT KEEP AFFECTING MY VIBE! I didn't ask for this, it just happened. I'm not doing things that bring on these problems. They just happen. And happen again. And happen again. And continue to happen. AND YES, TOYOTAS CAN AND WILL HAVE PROBLEMS. Quite honestly, I'm fed up with how anytime I bring up that fact, I get kicked around because of it. I'm done with this thread. Sorry for making so many of you angry.

[Pablo1669]

Quote, originally posted by BryanC7020 »Now that GM has finally got a foothold in Toyota, it wont be long until they have the company firmly in there grasp.What a shame it would be if GM got there hands on Toyota and americanized and cheapened such a strong brand.How do you figure GM has a foothold in Toyota? Did I miss something?Also, how can GM cheapen Toyota? Have you not noticed how cheaply done everything is on the Vibe? One of the biggest reasons I got rid of mine was because I couldn't stand all the little cheap (removed) parts that Toyota used.

[03VibeGT6Spd]

First off, Saab has never been compared to a BMW. Saab needs all the help they can get.Ford has fixed Jaguars poor electrical system, now if Ford can fix Jaguars engines and transmission they could have a real car. Now as for Toyota Quailty, it Sucks!One thing I really miss about GM, is the 100,000 mile first planed service.Why can't Toyota's do that?You can polish a turd all you want, but in the end you still only have a pile of S**T.TOYOTA SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by goodvibrations »Sorry you feel that way about the Consumer Report. But why would you consider them biased? Hard to deny facts. They speak quite highly of the Vibe and the Vibe has proven its self. I have more faith in a magazine that does not advertise and buys it own cars to test than a magazine (Consumer Digest) who gets free-bees or articles written by those who personally benefits from the comments they make. Contrary to what you say Consumer Report does not play favorites.Consumer Reports does not benefit by giving a car company high marks in fact they will take legal action against any company who uses their articles to benefit financial. As Nu finish found out when they printed on their bottles they were rated number one by consumer report.Also note they provide information submitted by owners about their satisfaction with their Cars. If owners of these cars were happy with their purchase it would be reflected in the annual review.Don't get me wrong I am very happy with my purchase. but I would be lying if I said that the fact that this car had a Toyota engine and drive-train didn't influence my purchase. Or the Consumer Report didn't play any part.No I don't work for consumer reports but they have proven them selves to be right time and time again.Facts? Are you kidding me? CR is the biggest load of crap ever published. First of all, they hardly gave the G6, the Lacrosse, or any of the new Cadillacs the accolades they not only deserve, but earned through other companies and magazines. Second, I have NEVER seen a single one of the cars my family has owned rated anywhere near "acceptable." We have had Pontiacs as long as I can remember, and the ONLY one that was even midly a problem was the 92 Grand Am, which the only recurring problem was a piece of moulding that wouldn't stay attached to the door. And just because they have no ads means they can't be biased? Does anyone KNOW for a fact they don't get kickbacks from the asian manufacturers? I'm not saying they do. I'm just saying, you want proof they are biased...well give me proof they aren't?Quote, originally posted by BryanC7020 »First of all, I find it unlikely that anybody that hated their Vibe so much would be designated as a "GenVibe God" on a forum strictly dedicated to their "crappy car sitting in the parking lot."The title wasn't given to him. Anyone who hits 1000 posts is upgraded to that title. Check your facts before you start mud slinging.Quote »Those are the very things that are giving me fricken ulcers... I'm glad you guys are having good luck with yours, I don't wish this on anybody. I'm stuck and can't do a damn thing about it. Frustrated, scared, angry, and just plain ol' stuck. I've still got warranty coverage, but each time I get something fixed, either that breaks again or something else breaks, and ARRRGH! Kinda like how it needs its 4th A/C compressor, which the thing hasn't even been on there a month and it's shot again. What?I hear you CP, and I feel your pain. I'm just under the 61K mark, and honestly, my car sounds like it wants to fall apart. The engine rattles and vibrates so loudly, people at lights turn and give me dirty looks as if I'm driving a junker. The fuel economy has consistently FALLEN since break in. I DON"T drive as hard as I used to, I typically go the speed limit, no A/C (not that A/C affects MPGs as has been proven on several occasions), and with cruise control. To break 30 mpg is fantastic. My Sunfire with a 2.4 I4 got better mileage then this thing is right now.Frankly, I wonder what kinda situation I'd be in if I HADN'T received this promotion which is giving me the ability to get into a TRUE GM car...Quote »Enjoy your Toyotas.No thanks. I'll be trading in soon for some GM quality. Seriously though, when GM finally kicks yota out the door, yanks their crappy powertrain, and replaces it with an ECOTEC, you'll see a Vibe light years ahead of what we have now. If I were in GM I'd be embarassed to put my name behind this powertrain.My car has been good to me for the most part, and I will miss it when trade in comes. But as I said, it's showing it's age, WAAAAAAY too soon.

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by BryanC7020 »First of all, I find it unlikely that anybody that hated their Vibe so much would be designated as a "GenVibe God" on a forum strictly dedicated to their "crappy car sitting in the parking lot."Here at genvibe, your user "rank" is only a reflection of how many posts you have. "GenVibe God" means that the user has posted at least 1000 times. ColonelPanic has had more than average number of issues with his car, and it can get tiresome to read about how dissatisfied he is with his car in every other thread, but his car seems to be the exception to the quality thing that most of us enjoy about the Vibe. As far as the GM vs. Toyota thing, Toyota does have a reputation for higher quality than GM, whether this is still deserved or not I can't say. Most of my cars have been heavily used before I ever got them, and the Vibe is one of the few that I have had where I don't feel compelled to carry the toolbox around all the time.For me, the gas mileage was more important than the brand. I have little or no brand loyalty, although I do have a political preference for buying stuff made in the USA. (I was in a convenience store the other day, by the register they had these olive drab green bracelets that said "Support the troops" The bracelets were "Made in China" ) Anyway, of all the entire lineup of Ford, Chrysler, and GM, the base 5 speed Vibe gets the best gas mileage. If I were to fault GM, it would be that they can't do any better without having to use a Japanese powertrain. GM should be able to do a lot better than 36 mpg, but apparently they can't do that without help.

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by BryanC7020 »I will NEVEr, EVER buy a GM car or truck, EVER in my entire life, and I dont care WHAT the statisics say.so you drive a what? oh yea a VIBE. brought to you by GM you slam CPanic for being a Genvibe God because he posts here alot and thats what got him his Genvibe status, not because he has a lemon for a car. better think before you post.

[tnpartsguy]

Raging Fish Said "Seriously though, when GM finally kicks yota out the door, yanks their crappy powertrain, and replaces it with an ECOTEC, you'll see a Vibe light years ahead of what we have now. If I were in GM I'd be embarassed to put my name behind this powertrain."No thanks on the ECOTEC; the new HHR has the supposedly high-output verision, and it sounds like its about to fly apart at 3500 rpm, and has very little power, of course, it is weighed down by the tub of lard the HHR became. The Vibe, and before it the Prism, and before it the Nova all came about because GM teamed up with Toyota to be able to closely study how Toyota does stuff through the NUMMI project. The project has been renewed twice, and I believe it will be renewed again. I admit, I bought my Vibe for 2 reasons; I liked the looks, and the Toyota powertrain. So far my dislikes are few; horrible paint (inside and out), cheap trim, and the expense of parts for the car.JohnC said "Here is what it said at the bottom about the stats in the article."Statistics excerpted from GM President John Smith's remarks to GM dealers, March 2005."Hmmm...bias?"Yes, GM does have the same disease most other joint-venturist car makers have, the Not-Invented-Here Sydrome. The Vibe might have some quality problems, but so do they with the G6....so much with the convertible that it may never see the light of day, and the SSR's have so many roof problems that GM has advised some owners after multiple repairs to keep the roof shut while they research the problem.I'm not going to go into any depth with this, but one fact stands out, GM has a major recall on almost every car they have made in the last 5 yrs....save one....that's right....no recalls on the Vibe.

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by tnpartsguy »Raging Fish Said "Seriously though, when GM finally kicks yota out the door, yanks their crappy powertrain, and replaces it with an ECOTEC, you'll see a Vibe light years ahead of what we have now. If I were in GM I'd be embarassed to put my name behind this powertrain."No thanks on the ECOTEC; the new HHR has the supposedly high-output verision, and it sounds like its about to fly apart at 3500 rpm, and has very little power, of course, it is weighed down by the tub of lard the HHR became. I can't speak for the HO ECOTEC, but I know the older variants were smooth, reliable, and far more responsive then the 1.8 I4 we have. They were also easier on fuel.

[Baltovibe]

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »I hear you CP, and I feel your pain.I also feel for CP. Although my Vibe seems to still be doing well, reading CP's comments keeps me aware of what may happen in the future and keeps me humble. And, if his release of information helps him deal with his situation, I think this forum is better for it. I am especially happy that the Vibe has not been a total loss for him, meaning Kari.

[BryanC7020]

Well then my apologies to CP, I guess there has to be a lemon in every bunch.btw, just an update, my wife and I split, I left her the vibe, lol. I sold her Cavvy for $4,500 and am now looking to buy a new car of my own sometime in the next few week once I get on my feet again. $4,500 oughta make a nice downpayment, best thing GM every gave me

[djpositivek]

Wow sorry to hear. That happened fast. What are you gonna buy now ?

[satur9]

wow. is it getting hot in here? i bought my vibe because of the toyota connection.frankly its the best car IVE ever owned in this ordervibe85 chevy nova(corrola)96 grand am92 sunbird(fire ?)82 chevette85 cavalier85 celebrity wagon85 celebrity its odd coincedence that i owned so many 85"s , it was cars i kept getting stuck with. most were all crap but the nova. i never replaced so many motor mounts(celebretys) in my life. the chevette ram mechanicaly and electrically better than the celebrities. but i could see thru the rusted floor boards and had to get in the passenger side.the grand am was not a bad car so i guess gm got better but i still put less money into the nova which ran good and got good mileage like the vibe. ive only taken the vibe to the dealer three times.( one was the cat which i may or may not have had a hand in) and twice when i first got it cause the maplight kept blowing out which it hasnt done since . if i had to buy another car it would be a vibe again. i would like a gto but not after the problems ive read about. its a shame that some people got lemons(vibe). but that happens in every car some manufacturers more than others it seems. btw, my wife has a 96 malibu thats total crap. her boss has a 96 malibu that was total crap. 2 guys at work have silveradoes that oddly seem to breakdown around the same time. as i said im not bias against gm but i read and hear and experience alot of negative stuff about them.while my grandmother's corrola run like a champ. my 2 cents.oh and as for mergers or buyouts, in the words of balki bartakamous(sp?) " dont be rediculous!"

[BryanC7020]

I am looking at buying the new Mazda MX-5 when it comes out right now, but I gotta admit, GM has really impressed me with the Solstice, I wonder how it will stand up to the test of time. It certainly is pretty (as opposed to its twin, the Saturn Sky (EWW!) - )

[goodvibrations]

[QUOTE=ragingfish]Facts? Are you kidding me? CR is the biggest load of crap ever published. First of all, they hardly gave the G6, the Lacrosse, or any of the new Cadillacs the accolades they not only deserve, but earned through other companies and magazines. Second, I have NEVER seen a single one of the cars my family has owned rated anywhere near "acceptable." We have had Pontiacs as long as I can remember, and the ONLY one that was even midly a problem was the 92 Grand Am, which the only recurring problem was a piece of moulding that wouldn't stay attached to the door. And just because they have no ads means they can't be biased? Does anyone KNOW for a fact they don't get kickbacks from the asian manufacturers? I'm not saying they do. I'm just saying, you want proof they are biased...well give me proof they aren't?No I'm not "kidding you"You seem to think it is just CR that does not think highly of the GM cars you mention. Remember it is not their own testing but thousands of people who respond to their annual surveys. If the cars you mentioned were as good as you believe they are why do none of these owners respond positively? Lets face the facts with respect to these "other magazines" you speak of. If you were getting cars to test for free would you say too many things bad about them? The magazines I think you are referring to Car & Driver, Motor Trend have a vested interest to say something nice. When it comes to Pontiac especially in nineties, you must be one of the lucky ones, because my brother had a 96 Grand Am 3.1 at 140 thousand km 90 thousand miles, had to have the engine replaced. My sister had a 97 Grand Am 3.1 which had major engine problems, brake problems as well and I have a co worker who has had numerous electrical problems with her 98 Grand Am.The CR 2005 annual review however rates the 2003 Buick Century, and 2003 Buick Regal, and the 2003 Grand Am as high as the imports based on reader reviews so they can't be that bias, the cars however seem to lack long term reliability according to their owners. In terms of kick backsCR is not for profit organization, who depends on donations, but does not accept corporate support (ie Toyota or any other corporation) free samples or advertising.I don't think they could or would risk taking corporate sponsorship since the fact they don't is the pillar of the magazine (part of their mission statement). They buy their cars like you and me. They lean more towards the Toyota's and Honda's because they have proven themselves. Their readers seem to agree as do many of the Vibe owners me included. Be honest with yourself, most of the problems they identify with cars in the annual buying guide are quite accurate. As for the G6 if it is truly the cream of crop it will rise to the top IMO. As a side note CR is having an open house at their testing center in Yonkers New York, Oct 22, Maybe one of the our fellow genvibe members who lives nearby could go for the tour of the facility to see if " CR is the biggest load of crap ever published"

[macrosonic]

If you think GM has a foothold to takeover Toyota, you should read up on some automotive history, as well keeping up with current events.GM is too overstretched as it is. Most people view their many inter-company deals as complications at best, and failures at worst. Saab was a drag on GM profits for over 10 years. Fiat was a complete mistake. GM has deals with Suzuki and Isuzu and deals in China. It own susidiaries in Australia (holden) and Europe (opel). The dumped Oldsmobile because of too much product overlap and they're trying to simplify and resurrect their other lines like Cadillac, Pontiac, and Saturn. Why on earth would they want to get even more complicated and overstretched by buying Toyota?? even if they could, which they can't possibly afford to. GM is doing everything possible to keep it's head above water. I'm not bashing GM, it's just the situation they're in.As far as Toyota taking over GM... equally unlikely. From Toyota's standpoint, they are terrified of an anti-japanese backlash from american consumers. They recently wanted to help prop up GM to avoid this (pissing GM off I might add) GM has so many legacy problems with unions, suppliers, and retirees that Toyota wouldn't touch them with a 20 foot hummer.From a marketing perspective - GM and Toyota and #1 and #2... and Toyota will soon become #1 probably. (I'm pretty sure Ford has lost the #2 slot. if not, then soon). Big companies like that usually buy up smaller companies in order to gain something specific... not to buy out equally large companies with tons of overlap and baggage. It would take a decade just to merge systems and management, let alone gain anything from the merger.

[rickhow]

I am 60 years old and since I was 18 I have driven nothing but GM products. Some of those have been great (a Pontiac Grand Prix, a Chevy Camaro, a Vega GT), others have been a piece of crap (a Pontiac Grand Prix..different one...another Pontiac Grand Prix..a Monte Carlo and worst of all an Oldsmobile Omega), others have been good for the money (Sunfire, Cavaliers) and many others have fallen somewhere in between. To date, my 2004 Vibe has been the best car I have ever owned. Someone else has written repeatedly how bad their's is. I know the feeling, I had a Pontiac Grand Prix the lived in the garage, leaked oil constantly despite several seal rebuilds, etc., etc. It just shows everyone can build a lemon.Why do I feel my Vibe is the best. One, it has had only one warranty repair in 2 years for a light on the dash that wouldn't go off. The gas mileage is good (although my other car a Sunfire delivers equal around time mileage and better highway mileage). It has a very solid feel, no rattles or vibrations, and is quieter in that area than my previous Grand Prix was. It is versitle. I love the handiness of the cargo area(s), and I love the sharp dashboard and display. I absolutely feel it has MUCH better quality than any previous GM car I have owned.Some repeatedly knock Toyota and their supposed quality. Well after years of GM product and now owning a "toyota", if asked I would say Toyota does have better quality. I do NOT for a second believe that Vibe is worst quality product in GM's arsenal. That is simply laughable.Take a look at recalls for example...anyone get one for a VIBE? But there is not a single other GM product that hasn't had a recall...my sunfire has had FIVE in the past 3 years.Chevrolet the best selling car in America? That is a twist on statistics. It is the number one selling CAR (excluding trucks and suv's) by an American owned company. Toyota is NOT an American owned company, and outsells Chevrolet handily.If toyota's were such a hunk of junk as some claim on here, you think they would be the number one seller in the world and the number one seller in America?If I had a car that required 4 A/C compressors, as someone mentioned, in one year...after the 2nd one I would be asking to speak to the local area service rep. Obviously something is making the compressor fail and some poor service dept just keeps replacing the compressor rather than finding the culprit.Does that mean I think my Vibe is perfect? In some ways yes...the tolerances to which it is assembled are admirable, each seam have perfect spacing between body and interior panels, no flaws in workmanship, great engine layout and design. In some ways no...I'd like to see a better grade paint (as many have written about on this forum), better grade interior carpeting, a bit more highway pep. But as far as the perfect car for me (99% city driving), it is fantastic, quiet, smooth, and fun and the best GM product I have ever had.

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by rickhow »Take a look at recalls for example...anyone get one for a VIBE? But there is not a single other GM product that hasn't had a recall...my sunfire has had FIVE in the past 3 years..for the sake of accuracy, there was a recall on the first two month's worth of Vibe production, back in early 2002, http://www.wane.com/Global/sto...d8Erzh ... read?id=58