With gas prices going up, drivers downgrading fuel

[Baltovibe]

Saw this in today's paper. Copyright Baltimore Sun.http://www.baltimoresun.com/bu...linesThe Cost of EnergyWith gas prices going up, drivers downgrading fuelOwners: Many are buying lower octane no matter what the car makers recommend.By Michael DresserSun StaffAugust 25, 2005William Kolodner pulled his shiny silver-green car up to the pump at the St. Paul Street BP station and committed what some purists would consider Jaguar abuse.The Baltimore lawyer bypassed the $2.87-a-gallon high-test and pumped midgrade Amoco Silver gasoline - with a paltry 89 octane level and a $2.78 price - into a car whose manufacturer recommends Supreme fuel with octane of at least 92."There's absolutely no difference in how the car operates. The real question is, should I trade further down?" Kolodner said.That's a question motorists - even those well-heeled enough to drive Jaguars - have been asking around the country as prices at the pump have soared by more than 70 percent in the past year.Many of them have decided that the answer is to buy regular 87 octane gas no matter what their car's maker says is "recommended" or - in some cases - "required." Kolodner said he's been putting midgrade gas into his 1996 Jaguar Vanden Plas for the past six months because of high gas prices. Now he defies the manufacturer's dictates and uses 89 octane gas in his Lexus, too.Kolodner's trading down reflects a long-term trend and short-term market forces. Regular gas, which accounted for 70 percent of sales in 1994, captured more than 86 percent of the market last year, according to the federal Energy Information Administration. This year, sales of regular have increased by almost 5 percent while midgrade and premium (91 octane and up) sales have fallen more than 3 percent.Jeff Dolch, owner of the station at St. Paul Street and Mount Royal Avenue where Kolodner pumped his gas, said he's seen a big drop-off in premium gasoline sales within the past few months. At his station this week, the spread between the price of regular and premium was 18 cents - less than the prevailing national differential of about 25 cents.Dolch said that until recently he would have sold about 13,000 to 14,000 gallons of 93 octane high-test by this time of the month. Last month, that sank to 12,000 gallons, and this month it stands at 11,000, he said. Meanwhile his sales of regular are up.So does that mean local mechanics can expect a spike in business in a few months as octane-starved high-performance engines sputter and wheeze into service bays?Not likely, says Jim Spires, general manager of Hillmuth Certified Automotive, an independent, family-owned shop in Clarksville."There's no harm done. The reason for the premium gasoline is simply to get better performance," he said.And except for a few who are persnickety about performance, Spires said, drivers wouldn't notice a difference in the ride of a luxury vehicle running on regular gasoline.David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research, drew a distinction between a manufacturer's recommendation and a requirement."If it isn't mandatory in an owner's manual, I think people are basically wasting money when they use premium fuel," said Cole, whose center is an independent spinoff from the University of Michigan. "If it says it's mandatory, then you'd better stick with the premium grade of gasoline."Internet postings show that some owners of luxury vehicles worry that if they use lower-octane gas, the engine could be damaged and the manufacturer could void the warranty.Robert Moran, a spokesman for Mercedes Benz USA, says that his company "requires" the use of premium gasoline and that he believes most customers comply. He said he knows of no cases where a warranty has been voided over fuel use."From a customer standpoint, as far as we're concerned, it's not really an issue," he said.Shane Ewing, service manager at Laurel Jaguar, said many of his customers have traded down to lower-octane fuel grades because of rising costs. He said he's seen a "minimal" number of cases where that might have caused fuel-injector problems."It's been unusual that I've seen evidence of lower-octane fuels causing problems with the car's running," he said.John Cogan, spokesman for the Energy Information Administration, said many motorists have misconceptions about premium gasoline."Premium's not cleaner than regular gasoline. Premium doesn't have more energy contained in it than regular gasoline," he said. All it means, he said, is that it contains more octane, a chemical that prevents premature ignition.One point on which most authorities agree is that putting premium or midgrade gasoline into the vast majority of cars and light trucks that are built to run on regular is a nondeductible charitable contribution to the oil industry."If you're driving a Honda Civic and you insist on putting a premium gas into it, it's still going to be a Honda Civic. It's not going to turn into a Viper," Spires said, referring to the ultra-high-performance sports car from Dodge.Despite rising prices and advice to the contrary from such sources as the federal government and Click and Clack of public radio's Car Talk, a belief persists among some motorists that premium gasoline can improve the performance, extend the working life and improve the mileage of any car.Postings on many car-related Web sites show that some motorists have an almost religious devotion to high-octane gasoline, worrying that even occasional use of "the cheap stuff" could ruin their engines."I'd be willing to bet that there's a lot of urban legends that have been passed on from generation to generation," said Ed Kriston, an Approved Auto Repair specialist for AAA Mid-Atlantic.Some motorists said they had been told by mechanics that they should periodically buy a tank of premium - even though their cars were built to use regular - to keep the engine free of deposits.Cole, of the Center for Automotive Research, said that is a "myth" and that the detergents in regular gasoline are sufficient to keep an engine clean. "One of the greatest purveyors of these myths is mechanics," he said.Cole said that before the 1970s, when the use of leaded gasoline was phased out, many more cars needed premium gas to control engine knocking."That era has been gone for many years," he said, noting that modern cars have electronic "knock sensors" that adjust engines to account for the fuel grade.Cole said that cars with high-compression engines might get better fuel efficiency with premium than with regular but probably not enough to offset the higher cost."If everybody used what made the best sense for them, I think the use of premium gas would diminish quite greatly," he said.Some people have excellent reasons for pumping high-test.Legal assistant Avon E. Tripps, who stopped by the St. Paul Street BP this week to fuel an Infiniti QX 4 SUV with its manufacturer-recommended premium gas, wouldn't consider jeopardizing the performance of a vehicle his prestigious law firm uses to transport clients. And he doesn't blink a eye at the $40-$45 it takes to fill the tank."They pay for the gasoline, so it doesn't come out of my pocket," he said.Copyright © 2005, The Baltimore Sun | Get Sun home delivery

[GMJAP]

Not to mention getting locking gas caps:http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatod...theft

[ColonelPanic]

Quote, originally posted by Baltovibe »"If you're driving a Honda Civic and you insist on putting a premium gas into it, it's still going to be a Honda Civic. It's not going to turn into a Viper," Spires said, referring to the ultra-high-performance sports car from Dodge.True dat, that Civic won't turn into no Viper! BUT... Add a hideous wing to the back, fart can, clear tail lights, green turn signal lights, lighted washer nozzles, obnoxious headligh bulbs, a cracked, multi-color body kit, different wheels on the front than on the back, lotsa stickers: That will make it outrun that Viper, damn it! Er, anyway... I'm interested to see how much damage people are willing to do to their engine to save $0.20 a gallon. If you've got a car that needs to run on premimum, put premimum in the thing. Dad learned this when he put 89 octane in his supercharged Impala SS that requires premimum. Filling it up with that crap made it ping like hell... I'd say if you let one ping and knock enough, you'll eventually do some damage.Now that I think about it after having the math put into perspective, $2 more for every 10 gallons isn't that bad... Sure, it's more money - $2 more a gallon than you would be spending on fuel for another car, but at least it's cheaper than a few grand for a new engine...

[Sputnik]

Yeah obviously if you can't afford to drive the car properly then you shouldn't have bought the car.

[Mavrik]

that guy is a moron... soon his engine will start having a little ping, then a knock... then as the vehicle does not run on fuels it is suppose to, carbons up and destroys the converter in the exhaust. He will then take it into the dealership to "*****" about his problems and be asked. "what fuel are you putting into your car sir?" while being handed an expensive repair bill.

[Jahntassa]

Okay, now if I still had my Probe with its V6 (160hp, btw.) I might go down to Silver and feel okay with that.On the GT, with its freakishly high compression ratio, i'm not even going to chance it. I don't need to blow something critical if I suddenly have to redline to avoid dying.. I can take the extra $0.20 hit per gallon. I knew what I was getting into when I bought the car, and if it bothered me that much, i'd trade it for something else.If you own a Jaguar, and a Lexus..you should be able to afford the right gas for it!

[GMJAP]

The price spread between regular and premium hasn't really changed - it's been about $.20 more since I can remember.So first off, the premium you're paying for high octane hasn't changed in dollar amount. It's been about $2 more for 10gal since the $1.45/gal daysSecondly, now the price you're paying for premium is much LESS as a percentage of the gas bill. You used to pay about 15% extra for premium. Now you're paying about 8% extra.Doesn't make any sense. How much extra did you pay to get a performance engine? $2500? That'd pay the price difference on 12,500 gallons of gas. At 15mpg, good for 187,500 miles.

[mcgusto82]

car advance enough will recognize the lower fuel grade. that's what the oxygen sensors are for.only high compression cars need higher octane, and that is only to maintain the same lvel of performance advertise. i think that is a somewhat of a way to protest. refiners still need to sell high octane. losing sales will force them to do something.better yet. we neeed to stop driving as much as possible.i am considering getting a good bike and biking my way around.i can't believe since 99 when prices here in NY were around 1.20$ a gal.that no one is doing more about it. we should be getting all the oil from iraq for freee now.

[ColonelPanic]

Yep, you've got a good point.

[ToolGuy]

Lots of great points here and gas is gas, does not matter where it is bought from! Some may throw in other additives but it is all refined the same and is gas. My PT Recommends Premium and I have used maybe one or two tanks of of it since I got is in 2003. After that, I use Regular and will continue to do so until I turn the car in! I got confirmation from two sources, one being a DCX engineer I work with, my engine has enough knock sensors in it to counteract the lower Octane fuel. There is a small degree of performance lost, but I do not care. My PT's Owners Manual tells you this too as well as I have seen a post from the Vibe owners manual here stating running lessor grades in the Vibe GT will not hurt your engine and you can do it if needed. I did not want the turbo PT at first but I got a great deal on it, hence the Turbo.When I need to top off my Corvette and know I will just burn the fuel say on the highway, I top off with 89 grade. It needs Premium for its max performance but the 89 grade will not hurt it and it does not make a difference in that car.

[ragingfish]

In regards to the second article, do not all new cars have anti-siphoning devices in the filler necks?

[ToolGuy]

The newer vehicles I have seen do now. Like a maze, there is not a straight path down into the tank so a hose could not be passed through. Then there was a spring loaded door that had to open. Not hinged on one end, it opened and closed flush, fluid would open it but a hose would compress it and not allow the hose to bend pasted it. Hard to describe but most if not all do now...

[joatmon]

Ragingfish, can I use regular gas in my Vibe GT? Someone told me you would know the answer.

[binary]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »Ragingfish, can I use regular gas in my Vibe GT? Someone told me you would know the answer. Ducks for cover, and shouts "incoming!!!!"

[GMJAP]

Quote, originally posted by MiVibe-ToolGuy »The newer vehicles I have seen do now. Like a maze, there is not a straight path down into the tank so a hose could not be passed through. Then there was a spring loaded door that had to open. Not hinged on one end, it opened and closed flush, fluid would open it but a hose would compress it and not allow the hose to bend pasted it. Hard to describe but most if not all do now... That's good to know. Hope it includes the Vibe

[goodvibe]

If you pu$$yfoot around (keep the motor lightly loaded) without the air on you can use 87 in almost anything. If you want to use a GT with some acceleration and few people in the car with the air on, it will need premium not to retard the timing and lose mileage. You can manage to get retrad on a stock GT under the right conditions so premium is recommended. Think about why you bought it over the base and stay the course.

[tiger-bailey]

"The newer vehicles I have seen do now. Like a maze, there is not a straight path down into the tank so a hose could not be passed through. Then there was a spring loaded door that had to open. Not hinged on one end, it opened and closed flush, fluid would open it but a hose would compress it and not allow the hose to bend pasted it. Hard to describe but most if not all do now..."This includes Vibes?

[tangerine]

I run Super instead of premium in my SS Silverado ATM when I drive back/fourth to doctors. If I'm gonna be horsing the engine or hauling I'll use premium.