New Vibe - NUMMI Slave

[Vibe Venturer]

I’m a new Vibe owner! I just purchased a new 2005 Frosty base Vibe this weekend at the end of the employee discount promotion. I allegedly saved $3600 off invoice – a deal too good to pass up. I’m looking for an 8 year, 250,000 mile trouble-free ownership experience that can only be obtained through owning a product that Toyota had a hand in. My daily driver is a 2003 Tacoma 4WD with 100,000 miles on it already, so this Vibe is to take the pressure off that fine vehicle. My 2003 Tacoma is virtually irreplaceable now that it’s replacement, the 2005+ Tacoma has plastic bed cracking and weak tailgate issues. I need a tough truck, not a soccer mom, home depot ***mobile. Sure Toyota will eventually address the bed cracking in their own good time, but I’m afraid the ultimate solution will still leave real truck users, like myself, holding the bag. Most people take trucks to home depot, they don’t load 700 lb snowmobiles and 200 lb logs into the back of it. The new Tacoma is designed for those people – I’ve been left behind by the marketing bell curve. Speaking about being off the marketing curve, I was off the curve in 1998 when I wanted a Corolla wagon. Of course the marketing forces told Toyota to discontinue that wagon 2 years before, so I never got my Corolla wagon. I have it now in this Vibe! Corolla running gear and it’s much more functional than a 96 Corolla. I’m going to love this Vibe. I needed just a tad more room than the 98 Civic hatchback I traded in.I guess I’m a slave to NUMMI. First a Tacoma and now this Vibe. I hope the boys from Fremont have done as good a job with this Vibe as they did on my Tacoma. Reading Generation Vibe makes me think I made the right decision. Great forum!

[Mr. Poopypants]

Quote, originally posted by Vibe Venturer »I’m looking for an 8 year, 250,000 mile trouble-free ownership experience that can only be obtained through owning a product that Toyota had a hand in. Anyway, welcome to GenVibe and congrats on your purchase.

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by Mr. Poopypants » Anyway, welcome to GenVibe and congrats on your purchase. LOLwelcome to genvibe. I don't think I've have ever heard such an enthusiastic (?) intro before. I sure hope you enjoy your General Motors product.

[ToolGuy]

Quote, originally posted by Vibe Venturer »home depot fagmobile. Most people take trucks to home depot, Hey, hey, hey, The Home Depot is my second home. They know me by name there! Welcome! And for a second from reading your post, I thought I was reading an all Toyota forum.

[ShadowRuleZ]

Quote »I’m looking for an 8 year, 250,000 mile trouble-free ownership experience that can only be obtained through owning a product that Toyota had a hand in. Tell that to my 92 S10 with 226k that is still driven 400 miles per week, or my 83 caprice that has 200k on it that I just sold. I would say that the above experience is directly related to how the person takes care of the auto, more so than who made it.And if you wanted a "real truck", I would have gone with a diesel powered big three (other than the brand new superduties). I guess it's good that you didn't get a Ridgeline. I use trucks more for towing than hauling though.Anyways, welcome.

[Vibe Venturer]

I know it sounds like I'm ranting about and praising Toyota all at the same time. I know for a fact that if the Vibe wasn't Toyota-based, I wouldn't have bought it. I see owning a Vibe as having to deal with GM by default only. I've heard ugly stories about GM. I just hope I'm not about to be burned. How much could GM have screwed up the Vibe's Toyota platform?That being said, I did appreciate the GM discount though. If GM has done a good job on their portion of the Vibe, maybe they can win me over.I don't want a full size truck as I need the fuel economy for the distances I travel. I need a small truck to be occasionally tough like a full size. 21 mpg is better than 14 mpg, plus the $9000 more in purchase price the full size would have cost me. That adds up over time.

[03VibeGT6Spd]

Welcome to Genvibe.My Vibe GT is the first car I have ever own that had any Toyota in it.I have to admit it will be my last.I have to fix My own clutch even thou GM knows there is a problem with them, is outrageous.Why should I let them put the same faulty parts back in, then I have to deal with it again down the road in 10-50k miles.I'm happy you've had great luck with your Toyotas', wish you luck in the future.

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by Vibe Venturer » I see owning a Vibe as having to deal with GM by default only. soooo why didn't you buy a toyota Matrix? if you don't want to "deal with GM by default"Quote, originally posted by Vibe Venturer »I don't want a full size truck as I need the fuel economy for the distances I travel. I need a small truck to be occasionally tough like a full size. but yet you stated you want to haul 700 lb of snowmobiles and logs up the (removed). you sound as though your a home depot kind of truck owner.

[ColonelPanic]

Quote, originally posted by Vibe Venturer » How much could GM have screwed up the Vibe's Toyota platform?Worry not, GM didn't screw up these cars that bad at all.... In my case at least, Toyota was actually the ones who have done all the damage. It's their powertrain that has given me problems, assembly-related issues from NUMMI that I find questionable (serious paint weakeness, squeaks, rattles, very poor build quality in general inside and out) and numerous components from Toyota suppliers that have failed. Very, very few of my problems could be traced back to GM...GM didn't cause it to be so crappy, they just have to service it and have to service it at an alarming rate! Welcome aboard, and I hope the Vibe meets your expectations... If it does not however, that may not be because of GM...

[ToolGuy]

EDIT: Deleting my debates since it is getting out of control... Too bad I cannot debate another point of view, seems it is OK to bash GM but when others defend the American companies and state other points of views, it causes debates. Follows the saying, everyone hates the winner or the largest whatever.

[gregoire]

only GM I've ever had was 98 lumina. head gasket blew at 69k miles. and this was the only Chevy that Consumer Reports recommended. because I was deep in GM cards point, I bought a Vibe BECAUSE it's a "toyota" glad I did!My 94 Camry has 190k miles on it. great car, but now I'm trading it in for Vibe #2!!!! because it's a TOYOTA (and I have GM points) I've had 4 Toyotas in the past, will buy again in the future.HOWEVER, I'm getting rid of the GM card, so this will probably be my last GM. besides that fact that there may not be a Vibe, per se, the next time I buy, GM card's customer service pi$$ed me off so bad, that I'm cancelling the card after I use up all my points on the Vibe

[Psychobroker]

Quote, originally posted by Mr. Poopypants » Anyway, welcome to GenVibe and congrats on your purchase. Don't mind Mr. Poopypants...he's, well, a special case Welcome aboard

[jake75]

I my lifetime I have saved over $5,200 using my GM Card earnings. I'll put up with a lot for that kind of money. However, I can't remember ever having any problem with their Customer Service. Saw the Chevy HHR tonight parked at Easton Town Center. Might be an alternative in a few years when I get tired of the Vibe.

[Mr. Poopypants]

Quote, originally posted by Psychobroker »Don't mind Mr. Poopypants...he's, well, a special case Welcome aboard AHEM....That's head-case thank you very much.

[gregoire]

i've used over $5900 in GM points, and am about to use $1600 more, but here's the poop on why I hate GM card and will drop them after I buy buy vibe #2.the due date for the payment on the billing statement is NOT the real due date, in fact it's 5 days sooner then the real due date (which is 25 days after the biling date). I thought I was going to be late with a payment, so I made an online payment which costs $15 to do. when I realized that I had 5 extra days to make a payment, I asked them to credit me the $15 since their statement misled me. they wouldn't do it and treated me rudely to boot. I know they don't care about me 'cos I charge $1000 to $2000 every month and pay it off each month, which means they don't make a penny off me, so obviously they're better off not having me as a customer.point 2 is that when I signed up for the card several years ago the yearly limit was $1000 in points, but then they reduced it to $500/year so it wasn't as good a deal.Since only the nummi GM's are any good, I'll be buying Toyota's from now on (I've owned 4 Toyota's in the past, not counting my Vibe, which I consider to be a "Toyota" too)

[ColonelPanic]

Quote, originally posted by gregoire »Since only the nummi GM's are any goodThey are? I request proof, since what I have out there right now leaves a lot to be desired. lol!

[03VibeGT6Spd]

I have always been told that Gm cars from nummi are there worst cars, And I'm starting to agree.Actully If I would have known where it was made before I bought it, I would have serious reconsidered my purchase.

[gregoire]

maybe I'm misinformed about the nummi thing, but the Vibe and the old GEO/Chevy Prism are two of very few GM's to be recommended by Consumer Reports. Maybe I should have said "toyota" gm's are the only good gm's. as I posted earlier, My 98 Lumina was the ONLY CR recommended Chevy of its year, but mine was a piece of junk. only Toyotas in my future

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by gregoire »Since only the nummi GM's are any good, I'll be buying Toyota's from now on GM is crap because you had problems with one car and their credit card company.......

[jake75]

Quote, originally posted by gregoire » the due date for the payment on the billing statement is NOT the real due date, in fact it's 5 days sooner then the real due date (which is 25 days after the billing date). point 2 is that when I signed up for the card several years ago the yearly limit was $1000 in points, but then they reduced it to $500/year so it wasn't as good a deal.Another way of looking at it is that they give you a five day grace period beyond the due date which many might think is a positive. Most credit cards have gone to a due date 20 days after the billing date. I have made credit card payments on-line and not paid a fee. Don't know if I ever paid my GM Card bill that way. I have the original GM Card and it was always $500 a year, max 7 years accumulation. I never took them up on their offer to "switch" as I figured if they wanted me to switch it was probably in their best interest not mine. To get $1,000 at 5% is $20,000 in cc charges so that deal never appealed to me . I bought my 2003 Vibe in Jan. 2003 when GM offered selected cardholders a deal to increase their GM Card credit to $2,003 if the bought a GM car by Jan 31st. I was at about $500 at the time so I got an extra $1,500. The way I look at it I ended up getting a 20% credit on the $10,000 in purchases I made to earn that $500 in GM Card rebate.

[Vibe_dude]

Quote, originally posted by Vibe Venturer »I don't want a full size truck as I need the fuel economy for the distances I travel. I need a small truck to be occasionally tough like a full size. 21 mpg is better than 14 mpg, plus the $9000 more in purchase price the full size would have cost me. That adds up over time.if it was about the gas...should have gotten the new colorado....its the best in the class for fuel......u should do good with the vibe but believe me they are FAR from flawless.....and i am also finding out expansive to fix too.but over all it has been a good car.i have 90,000 kms on mine 2003 now.

[Vibe_dude]

Quote, originally posted by gregoire »maybe I'm misinformed about the nummi thing, but the Vibe and the old GEO/Chevy Prism are two of very few GM's to be recommended by Consumer Reports. Maybe I should have said "toyota" gm's are the only good gm's. as I posted earlier, My 98 Lumina was the ONLY CR recommended Chevy of its year, but mine was a piece of junk. only Toyotas in my futureok ok.......for the first thing if u believe anything that consumer reports tells ya u are already in trouble ....i have never read such crap in all my life as what comes out of that rag....wow..like what has been said here....any car is only as good as the the person who wants to take care of it..i bought my car used about a year ago it was not looked after by the last owner and now i have problems i have to fix....http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=17796so to each there own.....but a car is a car....and for me the $$$ is the bottom line.....and we all know GM is less $$$ to buy and operate.

[GMJAP]

I just wanted to say welcome, and I think you've made a great choice!Most people (the loud ones, anyway ) on this board are rather pro-GM, and quicker to knock Toyota as you may have noticed. I got the Vibe for the same reason as you- it's essentially a Toyota, and a Corolla-based one at that. I would've never gotten it otherwise.It's a great little commuter and hauler in one. Enjoy it!

[GMJAP]

PS - hey peeps, let's stop hating on the Vibe's heritage, either side. Toyota had a hand in the Vibe, and GM had a hand in the Matrix, for better or worse on either side.Even as a Toyota fan, I think the Vibe has many advantages over the Matrix, not the least of which is looks. So if you're a GM fan, just consider a Toyota nuts purchase of a Vibe as a first step into the light. No need to be saying @#$% off; get a Matrix.A little more welcoming tone for new Vibers, I think, would be good for the community. I've had mine for nearly a year now, I still think it's a fantastic car, and I'm glad I got it over the Matrix (though I still think they're great cars too.) With notable exceptions, I think the Vibe mostly got the best of both worlds, and wouldn't be as good a car if either company had tried on their own.We all be Viber's here!

[jake75]

Back when I was "poor" I bought a brand new 1977 Buick Estate Wagon for $6,000. A major investment for me at the time. Those were the days of the 12 month 12,000 mile warranties. Early on it went through starter motors and ignition modules like crazy. Got the first starter motor replaced under warranty at 11 months 29 days. It literally quit when I dropped it off for service. They had to push it out of the reception area. Subsequent repairs were on me. GM dealer was of no help. Wrote to GM and they sent me a form letter to consult my dealer as the dealer was the best source of assistance. An independent shop finally diagnosed the ignition module problem - new spark plug wires solved that. The rebuilt (all you could get) Delco starter motors still were only lasting several months. In retaliation I boycotted GM cars until my 2003 Vibe, and I have to admit that I would not have bought it if it were not the Matrix Twin, and for the $2,000 regular rebate and $2,003 GM Card rebate. I am sure others have horror stories about Fords, Chrylsers, and even Toyotas, but even the GM boosters here surely could not fault me for my boycott. In the interim I did have a couple of new Toyotas. Their sales people are difficult to deal with. My success was bringing in another local dealers ad which they always seemed happy to match. [By the way, a 1986 VW Golf was the worst new car I ever owned - fortunately I had a 6 year unlimited mile warranty that took care of 90% of the expenses.]

[GMJAP]

Quote, originally posted by jake75 »By the way, a 1986 VW Golf was the worst new car I ever owned.My parents got a used one of those when I was college. It was a disaster, especially the electrical system.

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by GMJAP »GM had a hand in the MatrixUmmmm no they didn't.

[Vibe_dude]

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 »Ummmm no they didn't.GM design the interiors of both cars....just for starters..they did more than that but not sure right off hand.

[GMJAP]

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 »Ummmm no they didn't.Yes they did. The car was a co-design/development effort from the get-go. John Mack from GM designed the interiors, and GM worked closely with Toyota on the overall design.In fact, GM came up with the concept and proposed it to Toyota!http://www.internetautoguide.c...2003/What makes you think they didn't have a hand in the Matrix?

[scherry2]

are you sure?

[GMJAP]

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 »are you sure?Dude- just google some reviews of the vibe or matrix - you can start with the link I posted.

[scherry2]

sorry. GM agreed to Toyota building Toyotas at the GM plant in California which became the NUMMI plant. GM did this to be able to exchange ideas in assembly and I'm sure something to do with Toyota building cars and trucks in America. GM gave the exterior and interior idea to Toyota to build the VIBE not the MATRIX to appeal to the 20 something crowd. Toyota then took that Idea and incorporated its own exterior styling and called it the matrix. which as you will note is built in Canada not NUMMI. and why is that you ask? since all the interior parts are the same and it would be cheaper to build the vibe and matrix at one plant. GM won't let them, GM never wanted the Matrix. GM may have come up with the Interior of the vibe but it was toyota who copied the idea and built the matrix.thats why I think GM had nothing to do with the Matrix

[Vibe_dude]

ok ok..now u are losin me.....Gm designed the car.asked toyota to build it......toyota agreed.and u know that if toyota sees a good thing they will jump at it and did....so they built there own version of it...just changing the body panels on the outside.......yes it is a toyota based car,but the whole concept and design is GM...

[GMJAP]

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 »sorry. GM agreed to Toyota building Toyotas at the GM plant in California which became the NUMMI plant. GM did this to be able to exchange ideas in assembly and I'm sure something to do with Toyota building cars and trucks in America. GM gave the exterior and interior idea to Toyota to build the VIBE not the MATRIX to appeal to the 20 something crowd. Toyota then took that Idea and incorporated its own exterior styling and called it the matrix. which as you will note is built in Canada not NUMMI. and why is that you ask? since all the interior parts are the same and it would be cheaper to build the vibe and matrix at one plant. GM won't let them, GM never wanted the Matrix. GM may have come up with the Interior of the vibe but it was toyota who copied the idea and built the matrix.thats why I think GM had nothing to do with the MatrixI don't know how you can note that GM came up with the interior and then say GM had nothing to do the Matrix?!?!?! Your issues about who's letting who do what and who's copying what being irrelevant- Point being the Matrix has an interior, among other elements, originally designed by GM)You should also be aware, that for the first year of production 2003 both the Vibe and Matrix were built at NUMMI. Finally, please be aware also that Toyota sold the car overseas as the Voltz, which only differed from the Vibe in that it was right-hand-drive. Did you even read the link I posted?Also, please post some links supporting your statements. I've never heard of any of this...

[Vibe_dude]

amen bro.

[scherry2]

my knowledge is from 30 years in the UAW from when there were only the big 3 all the way through the import invasion to the big 5 of today. most united auto workers know all about NUMMI.and the statement you made was "GM had a hand in the Matrix"and I said they didn't , I stated GM conceived the Vibe which Toyota changed so they could sell as their own version the Matrix. do you really think GM or Toyota or any big corporation really tells the media the real story all the time? do you really think all the answers are on the net? just remember nothing is irrelevent. I'm done now....

[GMJAP]

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 »my knowledge is from 30 years in the UAW from when there were only the big 3 all the way through the import invasion to the big 5 of today. most united auto workers know all about NUMMI.and the statement you made was "GM had a hand in the Matrix"and I said they didn't , I stated GM conceived the Vibe which Toyota changed so they could sell as their own version the Matrix. do you really think GM or Toyota or any big corporation really tells the media the real story all the time? do you really think all the answers are on the net? just remember nothing is irrelevent. I'm done now....You astound me.My point is simply that the Matrix, if it even existed, would not be the same vehicle it is today without GM. GM employees profoundly affected the design of the Matrix. Elements of the Matrix design came from GM. GM engineering and design decisions are present in the Matrix. If GM had nothing do with the Matrix, and it was solely a Toyota brainchild, it would not be the Matrix on Toyota lots from 2003-2005. "GM had a hand in the Matrix" meaning the Matrix, as it exists today, was influenced by GM and it's employees. Or just its employees, if that's an important distinction for you.Sheesh.(What do you think "having a hand in" means anyway? OK- a chunk of Bob Lutz's hands isn't actually inside every Matrix! )-- unnecessary portion deleted here --PS- wait wait: how about this? "Portions of the Matrix are based on designs originally done by GM (or employees thereof)"

[ColonelPanic]

My $0.02: If GM did design the interior, they apparently had to build it around Toyota's parts. Coming from an all-GM past, I see nothing really familiar. Nothing works, looks, or feels similar to GM engineering. And that's actually a bad thing, IMHO!If GM really designed the interior and was able to use their hardware, I wouldn't be thinking to myself "it would be really steenkin' nice if the door lock, window, mirror switches, etc. lit up at night!" That's all Toyota there baby, leaving us in the dark so they can save fifty cents a car and not pass that on to people like ourselves who buy their stuff.That's just the tip of the iceberg...

[GMJAP]

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic »My $0.02: If GM did design the interior, they apparently had to build it around Toyota's parts. Yes, it wouldn't make much sense to build a car in a Toyota plant without using Toyota parts, would it? Kinda defeats the purpose, not to mention adding costs to bring in and stock all those non-Toyota parts...Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic »That's all Toyota there baby, leaving us in the dark so they can save fifty cents a car and not pass that on to people like ourselves who buy their stuff.As opposed to GM which isn't interested in inconveniencing us to save themselves a buck and be cheap by getting rid of the console power outlet, the driver's seatback pocket, the center console lid compartment.... oh!- the roof rack cross bars.Not like those features were important enough to anyone that any Genvibers spent upwards of $100 to add them back....

[jake75]

Quote, originally posted by MiVibe-ToolGuy » Buy the Toyota and you get to go to their dlrs, the total Toyota buying and owning experience. Seems to me that I have read that while consumers like the reliability of Toyota vehicles, surveys have shown that consumers rated Toyota dealers near the bottom. I had a '94 Camry and a '97 Corolla and I never was overly impressed with either the buying experience or the sevice. My son-in-law bought a Tacoma a few years back and that dealer was an absolute a--.

[Vibe_dude]

well.what a topic.lol.......i said my peace so iam done.....but i do wanna say welcome to Vibe Venturer....hope u do not mind us crazy ppl here.lol....love toyota or hate toyota that is what we are driving and its got good points and bad......so enjoy ur ride and the forum.

[gregoire]

Quote, originally posted by MiVibe-ToolGuy »100% agree with everything you said! Just because Cons Reports rates a car does not mean every single one will perform perfectly to their report or recommendations.Plus, why buy the Vibe/Toyota when a person who loves Toyota should have bought the Matrix! The Vibe still has the GM warranties, policies and you need to go to a GM dealer to get it fixed... 1 - I'll stick with Consumer Reports, thanks2 - The dealer I bought my 4 toyotas from is the same dealer I bought my 3 GM's from. no difference in the dealer experience, therefore I bought the best deal between the Vibe & the Matrix, which in both cases was the Vibe. I guess I'm lucky that way. Also my best friend was the sales manager at the Toyota portion for over a decade, so my experience with them was the best. BTW, Consumer Reports surveys always rate Toyota dealers as the worst experience (not for me, of course), so they're not totally biased that way.and for the person who implied that a car is only as good as the care it receives, I take great care of all my cars...it's just that my '98 Lumina was a piece of crap that (of course) waited until after the warantee was up to prove it to me.so... I bought Vibe #2 this weekend to go with my '03 VibeAbyss, Moons and Tunes (without the 6 CD changer, which isn't standard any longer,) Power Group (without the theft deterrent which isn't standard any longer), ABS and 16" Aluminum Wheels (which isn't standard any longer,)

[GMJAP]

I will have to say that I'm not impressed with the Toyota dealer we deal with, but the dealer I bought my Vibe from blew me away - they were the best! It was the first time I actually enjoyed buying a car!