Tranny trouble - (removed)?

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:49 pm

I had bearings in my 2003 5-speed tranny go out at 75K miles, got a replacement tranny froma junkyard, put it in, 5K miles later the exact same failure/symptoms appeared in the replacemnet tranny (tranny #2) ( http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=15551 ) Problem appears to be in the bearings in the differential section of the transaxle, bad noise, but zero problems with shifting, noise only when in gear, moving, under load.tranny #2 came with a 101 day warranty, lasted about 60 days. The yard is pulling another one from somewhere in Florida, and tranny #3 should show up in a few days. This time I am having a local tranny shop do the work My car has already killed two trannies and it is my car, not my lack of skill, so don't go there. I am worried that since tranny #2, which had about 25K miles on it, only lasted another 5K after it met my car, tranny number 3 will not last long either. If there is something in my car that is causing premature failure of the bearings in the differential, what would it be? I am thinking that an out of balance driveaxle might worry the bearings to death, could that cause tranny bearing probs? I might go ahead and replace the drive axles anyway. What else, external to the tranny, can cause differential bearing failulre? I really like this car, but I can't afford to have a new tranny put in every oil change, and the yard is not going to believe it was a bad part the next time, so i can't count on the warranty on tranny #3. If my tranny eater vibe doesn't stop doing that, I'll have to get rid of it, I may end up getting rid of it just to keep from finding out if it's going to eat tranny #3.Help me keep my Vibe. Asuming tranny #2 was fine when I got it, what could cause my tranny probs? unbalanced driveaxle? What else?

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:52 pm

That's really odd. Any mods like motor mount inserts? They put a lot more stress on the tranny (no give on shifts). If it happens again and you don't want to give up, you can get an aftermarket LSD for as little as $800. Still lots more than the refurbs but better also. What gear oil did you use last time? GL5s are appropriate for the diff. but they don't all shift well. I suspect that you've done it all right but I gotta ask.

millster · Post by **millster** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:36 pm

I would tend to wonder about the drive axels and/or cv joints. Something has chewed the bearings out of the diff and that would lead me to believe something is wobbling around.I would think that wobbling would be noticed in the passenger cabin though either as noise or vibration.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:50 pm

in the first one I put in Mobil 1 at 60K miles, tranny went at 75. Second one got what the Toyota parts counter gave me when I asked for "two quarts of manual transmission gear oil for a Toyota Matrix 5-speed", but i forget now what the spec/part number,etc they gave me. It matched what the owners manual for the vibe said to use. It could be oil related, but I don't think so.Only mods I've done to the car are:-rear console outlet on all the time-DRL disable with a switch-moonroof stop halfway on close disabled with a diode-matrix CD/cassette head unit-non M&T rear view mirror (to get the better map lights)-bridgestone turanza tires to replace the conti's at ~45Kmiles (35K miles ago, tread still looks great)-debadgedno motor mount mods, no engine mods, no suspension mods, no drivetrain mods, regular maintenance.engine runs great, car rolls smoothly/quietly in neutral or with clutch in, starts fine, shifts fine. Only shift problems I had were some operator error hitting the slot downshifting from 5 to 4. The shift action was smoother when I put the second tranny in, but I think that was due to the lube where the shifter cable hook up to pivot points on the tranny (see pic in other thread)

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:52 am

I do not think the oil was a factor. What else, besides oil?

tnpartsguy · Post by **tnpartsguy** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:44 am

Actually, the fluid COULD be the problem. GL4 lubes are safe for all metals, but GL5's attack brass (such as blocking rings and spacers) and you have to be very careful when using GL5 fluids. I can check Monday to see exactly what fluid the manual trannys take.

Jahntassa · Post by **Jahntassa** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:39 am

He did say the stuff he got is what was listed in the manual...Did they check anything else on the drivetrain? Nothing wrong with the CV Joints? No bent axles? Could something be bent somewhere, or the tranny not in alignment? If it's happened on TWO it's gotta be something else in the car, right?

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:54 am

Manual calls for GL5 but some work better than others. Dual rating GL4/GL5 without to much antifriction adds for LSDs is best. GL5s are great for diffs, GL4 ussually shift better for trannies but some GL5s still shift great if they're not too slippery. Almost all curently available GL5s are safe for yellow metals and have more antiwear additives. Some GL5s shift great for a few thousand miles and then the synchros get too slick to work as well. Back to the subject. I also think that something other than just the tranny is involved unless it's easy to damage the bearing on removal or install.

Ponyota · Post by **Ponyota** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:58 am

Flywheel out of balance?

tangerine · Post by **tangerine** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:36 am

I'v got an automatic and my trany went out after 20k miles.

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:37 pm

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...=WDVW. Here's a cheap diff if needed. How's it going?

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:17 am

Right now I am just generally uneasy about the whole thing. If I can find something else wrong with the car that explains why it is eating trannies and fix that too, then I'd have no worries, but if I don't find that thing and fix it, then I expect tranny number 3 to go bad too. I'd be better off dumping the car before that happens. If I can fix it, it's already paid off, I'd be better off keeping it. two complete axle shaft asemblies are going to cost me more than a few hundred dollarsIn the meantime, driving a ranger 4x4, which is different from a Vibe by a little, and I'm getting lazy driving an automatic

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:29 pm

The problem is.....is that you live in the north east , and that is where trannys hate their life.............Just kidding. I suppose it is possible that by fluke your second tranny was just simply bad My question is: Did the same thing go wrong in both trannys?I would try going back to Dino fluids. The only thing I dont like about the synthetics, that make me nervous, is their consistency. Being thinner. but maybe that is my ignorance. I dont balme you for wanting to get it right though. How many trannys do you want to go through before you think there is an overlooked problem??...Mad Bill , where are you????hmm....I just re-read your original post. You said it is the EXACT SAME PROBLEM. Since you are having a tranny shop do the work, rather that just swap another tranny, I am hopeful that they may provide some insight....good luck!!!

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:24 pm

Synths aren't thinner. Any 75w90 is just that. A synth is just more likely to stay that weight in service.

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:34 am

Quote, originally posted by goodvibe Â»Synths aren't thinner. Any 75w90 is just that. A synth is just more likely to stay that weight in service.Hmmm..you know you hear things, and they stick with you, but they are not always correctI once was talking to a diesel mechanic about swithing my truck tranny to synth. He was telling me that in his fleet they were getting a million miles out of their trucks because of it. He added that the only draw back was the the seals leaked more often because of the consistency he thought. ...now i wonder what he meant..???

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 12:58 am

Quote, originally posted by Faultline Â»The problem is.....is that you live in the north east , and that is where trannys hate their life.............yeah but I could buy a tranny every month with what I save not paying california housing costs tranny 3 is supposed to arrive tomorrow or Tuesday, when the tranny shop takes it apart they are going to take a hard look for external causes. Even if they don't find anything I think I will still go ahead and drop the bucks to replace the drive axles and keep the Vibe. I don't want to have to go through the car selection process again, took me too long to choose a Vibe the last time. Hmm, the 425 HP Charger SRT8, the 70 mpg Insight, something in the middle, but where on the compromise between power and mpg? Screw it, I'll try to fix what I already have so assume I have proper amounts of proper fluid, driver has adequate skill in operation, roads are in good condition, tires are round and balanced. Anybody have any other ideas why my car eats trannies?

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:39 am

Don't forget to check out the ground strap as I mentioned in your trans fliud post...

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:21 am

yeah the ground strap on the original was in place on the original tranny, and back in place on tranny 2. Too bad, that would be a cheap fix. (I'll make sure it's there on tranny 3)

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:36 pm

Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»yeah but I could buy a tranny every month with what I save not paying california housing costs Southern California is out of control in the housing market!!That is why I moved to the desert, to afford housing. ..It was a trade off, I could afford housing, but I had to give up the color green They dont have that color in the desert!Yet, in 10 years, even the value of my house has tripled!!!Good ole' california

glassman · Post by **glassman** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:05 pm

i remember one time doing a dodge mini van tranny and there was a spec in the manual for finished axle length after a removal of tranny it said it was critical that it be alighned as to not end load the tranny bearings you might want to find out about that ask a few toyota guys it was a dodge tech that showed it to me in a supliment to the factory chrysler manuals.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:13 am

Picked it up , seems to be ok. For now anyway.Shop says they can find no cause for the bearing problems. THey say the problem was only in 3rd/4th/5th, so it wasn't the differential. I thought it was in all gears, but they're the pros. Their research only turned up one possible cause, excessive lugging of the engine is supposed to kill tranny bearings in these cars. I don't lug it, so I don't know. They checked the axles, said they are ok.The guy who looked at it cursed the designer, beached about how inconvenient the tranny mounts were, how much you had to disassemble to get the tranny out, said they should have charged me more for all the time it took. I kept a straight face, thanked them, and was laughing inside (I remember what a pain it was) so, it seems to be ok, and no noise. For now anyway. Not sure what I'll do from here. Maybe give it another chance When I took it in, I loaded tranny #1 in the back. When the yard brought tranny #3, they took tranny#1. The shop gave me back tranny #2. Tranny #3 came out of an 04 corolla, has 5K miles on it. My car reeks of gear oil from having a spare tranny in the back for 3 weeks.

Psychobroker · Post by **Psychobroker** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:43 am

Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â» My car reeks of gear oil from having a spare tranny in the back for 3 weeks. Oh man and that stuff STINKS!Well, good luck with Tranny #3 Joatmon!

burkeyro · Post by **burkeyro** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:16 am

you know - I had the MAIN bearing goin out in my tranny at 39K. I got GM to help me out with it. When they tore it down Found that the Bearing was all pitted and stuff. I'm starting to wondering if there was a bunch of '03 that may have had a defective bearing, but not enough for a Recall. Makes me wonder. I do have a question though, What did your Shop guy mean by "LUGGING" the engine?BTW: Since the GM dealership put my tranny back together - I can't down shift into 2nd if I'm above 20mph. YAY. so I'll be looking for another tranny here soon. They said that the only thing that they touched was the Final Drive Bearing. Feels like to me the screwed my sycros. but oh well.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:39 am

lugging is having the tranny in too high of a gear for the speed you are going. Imagine rolling at 20 mph, shifting into 5th gear and flooring it. The RPMs will be really low, the engine can't muster the torque to accelerate.or from an old car talk column"It's when you try to accelerate in too low a gear and the car bucks and labors and pings until you either downshift or get up to an appropriate speed for that gear."I found your tranny thread at http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=11765 Did they give you any warranty on the rebuild?

Mr. Poopypants · Post by **Mr. Poopypants** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:38 pm

Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»Picked it up , seems to be ok. For now anyway.Let's just hope this one doesn't break! Good to hear you got it back Joat.

burkeyro · Post by **burkeyro** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:56 am

yeah they gave me the standard - but I killed the warrenty in like 2 months and didn't have time to take it in. I really don't care. When I have enough money I want to see what it would take to put a 6-speed onto the Base motor and S/C it. see what all that will do. HE HE HE - another one of my stupid Ideas - I'm restoring an '82 Supra right now and just bought a house - So as long as the Vibe moves I'll deal with it.

hskater26 · Post by **hskater26** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:39 pm

i think im about to witness this tranny problem too i took it to the mechanic thinking it was a wheel bearing and he said to take it to a tranny shop down the road

CountryVibe · Post by **CountryVibe** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:21 am

I have had the same problem, 3 tranny in less then 6 months, it stinks that the trans are so weak. Supposedly that's why we have weak clutches to keep from having too much torque on the tranny

hskater26 · Post by **hskater26** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:28 am

......its getting looked at on monday

hskater26 · Post by **hskater26** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:45 am

although mine makes noise in neutral too when im just rolling?

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:15 am

Quote, originally posted by hskater26 Â»i think im about to witness this tranny problem too i took it to the mechanic thinking it was a wheel bearing and he said to take it to a tranny shop down the road Did you take it to a tranny shop yet?I have an update on mine. When I replaced the tranny at 75K miles, I put in a new clutch, thinking might as well since it was apart. Either I suck at driving stick, or I should have bought a better clutch, because it started slipping a tiny bit about a month ago, after only 110K miles on the replacement clutch. I went into denial, and put off dealing with it. Also I was getting a vehicle speed related whirring sound, I thought tranny #3 was dying. I finally took it into a shop to get it fixed, just threw money at it this time. Clutch was so bad, I wasn't sure I'd get the car to the shop without having to get it towed. Had to drive in two gears lower than normal to get some torque to the wheels. The whirring sound turned out to be just a cupped rear tire, guess I should rotate them more often. The old clutch was part way through the rivets, not much left. The new clutch grabs like crazy, it's like a different car. The engagement point is so low, the first time I chirped the tires because I let the clutch out too fast. Guess I was used to the worn one where the clutch didn't start to grab until the pedal was almost all the way up.Didn't notice it the day I picked up the car, but the next day I drove it more, and it was idling terrible. rough, about 500 rpms, threw CEL codes of P0000, P0080, P0171, P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304. At any throttle other than idle, it ran great, lots of power. I looked in the engine compartment, couldn't see anything left disconnected, no hiss from a loose vacuum hose, all electrical connectors seated. Cleaned the MAF, no effect.So I dug back into the pics of the engine I took back during the first tranny swap, and was able to find where the shop hooked up two vacuum hoses wrong. Put them right and the car runs and idles great now. Guess the shop didn't notice because it was really only noticeable when the engine warmed up enough to get into closed loop.It was the two hoses marked with arrows in this picture. Whatever they do, it's importantSo, the lessons in this for me are1. If you are going to all the trouble to replace the clutch, don't go for the bargain brand. Someimes saving a few bucks today will cost more in the long run.2. Take pictures of the engine compartment, so if you or anyone else ever works on it, you'll have a reference on what connects to what. If I ever buy a new car, I'll take lots of engine compartment pics right away.

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hskater26 · Post by **hskater26** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:40 am

Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»Did you take it to a tranny shop yet?yea i took it to them about 3 weeks ago and they told me i was right it was a wheel bearringi was pretty happy way cheaper then a new tranny

realflyer · Post by **realflyer** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:33 pm

I hope this thread is still alive... pardon any mistakes, as I'm a newb. Anyway, I just bought an '03 base with 100K on it. Tranny replaced 20K ago. Idled awful. It would kind of "lope" when it idled, sometimes at 1200, sometimes as low as 500. I saw the photo of the vacuum hoses (after cleaning MAF, changing plugs and air filter, and cleaning IACV) and tried swapping them. The idle now is much more stable. So the question is, is this photo of the way they are supposed to be? That's how mine are now. Thanks!

Tranny trouble - (removed)?

Tranny trouble - (removed)?

Re: Tranny trouble - (removed)? (joatmon)

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