Employee Pricing of Vibes & the Future of Auto Retailing

[jake75]

Looking at a Base Vibe with AT, Power Package and ABS the MSRP is $19,915 and the http://www.kbb.com invoice is $18,557, Add about $300 for the ad fees and the dealer invoice is 18,857. A dealer selling at $150 over cost would be about $19,000. SUbtract the former $2,000 rebate and you are at $17,000. The GM Employee price is now $17,067.65. "Much ado about nothing."That pretty much evens out the employee pricing. Plus, if the Conquest rebate is no longer available, you are paying $1,000 more than before. The Saturn "one price" model was one experiment. The next one might be a system whereby it is really GM selling the cars and the dealer merely gets paid a fixed percentage fee for each new car sold. That % might vary depending on the service ratings. Dealers could draw from regional inventories. State laws on auto franchises may be a stumbling block. There would be no "dealer invoice" as such. Of course I suppose dealers will figure out a way to give away all or part of their % fee, perhaps by varying the tade-in allowance. They will also find a way to get added money from the less sophisticated via financing and dealer add ons. So in the end things might not be that different for the consumer.

[kostby]

Maybe 'GM Employee Pricing' is the first step in a return to SANITY in GM (and all domestic) new car pricing!!!To me, it's ludicrous to have a outrageously inflated MSRP that virtually NOBODY EVER PAYS, (except poor schmucks with horrible credit and those buying from small-town dealers with no competition) and THEN offer a crazy-quilt of rebates, incentives, promotions, and gimmicks to DISCOUNT the MSRP back near the real-world invoice price anyway.IMHO, for 2006, GM SHOULD adopt just one pricing strategy across all lines and models: "The sticker price IS the price."No haggle. No discounts. No rebates. No incentives. No exceptions.What about hot new models (C-6, Solstice, Aura)?"The sticker price IS the price." What about employee discounts?"The sticker price IS the price." So what's the incentive for employees to buy GM then? "You HAVE a job AND benefits, don't you? If you want to KEEP your job, you'd better buy what GM makes!"What about slow-selling models during gas shortages or seasonal slumps?Like Burger King, GM should adopt the 'have it your way' model of scheduling and manufacturing vehicles (say within 3-4 weeks) ONCE the order is placed. A 'build-to-order' production strategy, wouldn't permit a 500-day supply of V-6 crew cab 3/4-ton pickup trucks with 4WD, 5-speed, and power locks and no A/C, BECAUSE they wouldn't build it until and unless someone ordered one!Then GM exec's don't have to strategize how to eliminate brands - the marketplace will do it!

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by kostby »So what's the incentive for employees to buy GM then? "You HAVE a job AND benefits, don't you? If you want to KEEP your job, you'd better buy what GM makes!"why does everybody think that all the GM employee deserves is a job....."OH heaven forbid those UAW workers who get so much money that they get a discount on the vehicles they make too."you ever work in a factory? ever work for a union? ever stand in one spot for 9 to 10 hours a day and do the same thing over and over and over every 50 seconds not stopping to have a smoke or drink?you ever notice how much the top managment get paid millions in bonuses and they never touch the vehicles? quit crying and blaming the employees.

[drunkenmaxx]

actually, i dont think that was kostby's point. he is saying why should employees buy GM if they dont get anything more than your average joe does?

[michaelgt]

The mistake in your "Much ado about nothing" comment is that rebates are after GM Employee price. Therefore, the $17,067.65 is $16,067.65 based on the $1000 rebate available in the NorthCentral region. So, hopefully all the employees bought last month, because that Vibe would have cost me $15,067.65 last month with the $2000 rebate. Therefore, I would expect no employees to buy in June, unless they give us a bonus rebate.Additionally, all vehicles that are made are ordered by dealers. GM does not build whatever they want. They take dealer orders and build the vehicles. If your dealer has a vehicle that does not make sense, as identified, the Dealer ownership should be reviewing their process for ordering vehicles. As for most GM vehicles, you can have your order in 3 weeks, unless you want an option that is restricted by volume, or you are ordering a joint-venture vehicle (Aveo, Equinox, GTO, Vibe, etc.).

[idontknowwhatimdoing]

Quote, originally posted by kostby »Maybe 'GM Employee Pricing' is the first step in a return to SANITY in GM (and all domestic) new car pricing!!!To me, it's ludicrous to have a outrageously inflated MSRP that virtually NOBODY EVER PAYS, (except poor schmucks with horrible credit and those buying from small-town dealers with no competition) and THEN offer a crazy-quilt of rebates, incentives, promotions, and gimmicks to DISCOUNT the MSRP back near the real-world invoice price anyway.IMHO, for 2006, GM SHOULD adopt just one pricing strategy across all lines and models: "The sticker price IS the price."No haggle. No discounts. No rebates. No incentives. No exceptions.What about hot new models (C-6, Solstice, Aura)?"The sticker price IS the price." What about employee discounts?"The sticker price IS the price." So what's the incentive for employees to buy GM then? "You HAVE a job AND benefits, don't you? If you want to KEEP your job, you'd better buy what GM makes!"What about slow-selling models during gas shortages or seasonal slumps?Like Burger King, GM should adopt the 'have it your way' model of scheduling and manufacturing vehicles (say within 3-4 weeks) ONCE the order is placed. A 'build-to-order' production strategy, wouldn't permit a 500-day supply of V-6 crew cab 3/4-ton pickup trucks with 4WD, 5-speed, and power locks and no A/C, BECAUSE they wouldn't build it until and unless someone ordered one!Then GM exec's don't have to strategize how to eliminate brands - the marketplace will do it!What he said...are you an industrial engineer with Lean Manufacturing experience? Your comments lead me to believe you could be! Make it when it is ordered...novel concept eh? OH WAIT...isn't that what Toyota does already??????????????/Excellent work!

[jake75]

Quote, originally posted by michaelgt »The mistake in your "Much ado about nothing" comment is that rebates are after GM Employee price. Therefore, the $17,067.65 is $16,067.65 based on the $1000 rebate available in the NorthCentral region.I don't think that is true. I am 99,99% condfident that the $17,067.65 for that MSRP $19,915 Vibe reflects both the employee discount AND the $1,000 rebate. Why would GM advertise a proce of $17,067.65 if the real priice is $16,067.65. Plus we know that the employee prices are just a few hundred at most under invoice. A $19,915 Vibe with a MSRP of 19,915 has a http://www.kbb.com invoice of $18,556.80, and there is usually about $300 in adv fees tacked on to the dealer invoice. (I don't know if the employee deal exempts them from paying those adv fees.).

[jake75]

Quote, originally posted by michaelgt » Additionally, all vehicles that are made are ordered by dealers. GM does not build whatever they want. They take dealer orders and build the vehicles. If your dealer has a vehicle that does not make sense, as identified, the Dealer ownership should be reviewing their process for ordering vehicles. Don't know much about this except that when in Dayton area recently I saw lots full of new GM vehicles by the GM plant which I assumed might have been built on spec. Also, I hear that dealers are pressured into taking slow selling models in order to get their allocation of hot sellign vehicles (if GM has any such vehicles except for the Corvette.)Also I suspect that there are deals that we never hear about. I believe that the $24,465 2004 T&C Van I bought for $6,000 off MSRP must have been bought with a deal that threw in a $945 popular equipment group as more than one dealer was promoting that particular configuration at prices better than $1,000 under invoice even taking into account the rebates.

[Kari]

The lowest employee discount percentage, according to the employee in my family, is 11%. So it may not include the $1,000 rebate already, but I don't know. The Cobalts are enjoying a nice 3K discount right now though. The percentage varies depending on what vehicle it is. Not sure how they decide which vehicle gets what percentage though.

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by jake75 »I don't think that is true. I am 99,99% condfident that the $17,067.65 for that MSRP $19,915 Vibe reflects both the employee discount AND the $1,000 rebate. your wrong!!!! I am confident the employee price does not include rebates and can be used in conjunction with all other rebates and discounts. all those that got and used GM in the Driveway certificates from me, I don't think one of them didn't get the employee price and all available rebates or they wouldn't have used them. they would have just made their best deal. I have had emails from many of them thanking me for the deal they got.Selected Style: FWD GT MSRP: $20,665.00 Pontiac Employee Discount Price: (approx.) $17,830.03 Selected Style: FWD Base MSRP: $17,690.00 Pontiac Employee Discount Price: (approx.) $15,137.65

[robodoc]

When I bought my GTP, prior to my Vibe, I started at the employee pricing(GMS price) then worked down from there with rebates and other incentives. So it would seem that the GMS pricing did not include the rebates.

[michaelgt]

The vehicles that you saw would be vehicles waiting for carriers to deliver. Depending on location, they would go truck or rail. All of these were ordered by a dealer. I really can't go into more detail then that.

[michaelgt]

Ok. I had not gone and checked. When you said employee price, I believed that you were quoting the GMS price (employee price). So I went and found an example. Your Vehicle: 2005 Vibe Base VIN: 5Y2SL63865Z437248 Exterior: Salsa Interior: Graphite MSRP:* $19,585.00 GMS: $17,778.00 So this vehicle would cost anybody $16,778 to purchase. So the price you stated was the GMS less the rebate. As I have stated, this incentive is much worse for employees. Last month I would have paid $15,778. The employee discount is not as great on Vibes because they are made at NUMMI. The discount on "pure" GM cars is larger by %.

[jake75]

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 »you are wrong!!!! I am confident the employee price does not include rebates and can be used in conjunction with all other rebates and discounts. all those that got and used GM in the Driveway certificates from me, I don't think one of them didn't get the employee price and all available rebates or they wouldn't have used them. they would have just made their best deal. I have had emails from many of them thanking me for the deal they got.Selected Style: FWD GT MSRP: $20,665.00 Pontiac Employee Discount Price: (approx.) $17,830.03 Selected Style: FWD Base MSRP: $17,690.00 Pontiac Employee Discount Price: (approx.) $15,137.65 Sorry that you are frustrated at my "ignorance". Perhaps it is merely semantics - i.e. what is the You Pay What We Pay "employee price". The specific question is whether the $17,067.65 employee price for the Vibe MSRP $19,915 will be further reduced by a $1,000 rebate. I still think not. That $17,067.65 "employee price" includes both the employee discount AND the $1,000 rebate which of course a GM employee also would get. [ww.kbb.com invoice not incl. ad fees for a $19,915 msrp Vibe is $18,557. You know the employee discount was never $1,490 under invoice.]Example - this morning's newpaper had a full page GM ad, including a Pontiac G6 $21,825 MSRP for $18,949 Employee Discount price "after applicable offers". The "applicable offers" include the "rebate(s)".

[jake75]

Quote, originally posted by michaelgt »Ok. I had not gone and checked. When you said employee price, I believed that you were quoting the GMS price (employee price). So I went and found an example. Your Vehicle: 2005 Vibe Base VIN: 5Y2SL63865Z437248 Exterior: Salsa Interior: Graphite MSRP:* $19,585.00 GMS: $17,778.00 So this vehicle would cost anybody $16,778 to purchase. So the price you stated was the GMS less the rebate. As I have stated, this incentive is much worse for employees. Last month I would have paid $15,778. The employee discount is not as great on Vibes because they are made at NUMMI. The discount on "pure" GM cars is larger by %.Didn't see this before my prior post - guess I was "right" and hope you are no longer frustrated with me.When you think about it, this promotion is deceptive as it implies "now we are giving you an even better deal" but what the right had giveth (the emplyee discount) the left hand taketh away (reducing the $2,000 rebate to $1,000). And car companies wonder why we consumers mistrust them so much! If I were a dealer I would be really miffed. I hope the NY State Attorney General takes notice. In fact I think I will call it to his attention.

[Pablo1669]

Quote, originally posted by jake75 »The specific question is whether the $17,067.65 employee price for the Vibe MSRP $19,915 will be further reduced by a $1,000 rebate. I still think not. then you are still wrong.The rebates will come after the GMS pricing, so it will be further reduced from GMS by the rebates.

[jake75]

Quote, originally posted by Pablo1669 »then you are still wrong.The rebates will come after the GMS pricing, so it will be further reduced from GMS by the rebates. michaelgt says I am right - the 17,067.65 prices does include both the emplyee discount AND the $1,000 rebate. Just a metter of defiing what "employee price" means. The employee price defined as the price an employee would pay (you pay what we pay) also includes the rebate so that is the "employee price".

[Pablo1669]

call the dealers and ask them, they will tell you that the rebates come after the GMS pricing.

[Kari]

Quote, originally posted by jake75 »michaelgt says I am right - the 17,067.65 prices does include both the emplyee discount AND the $1,000 rebate. Just a metter of defiing what "employee price" means. The employee price defined as the price an employee would pay (you pay what we pay) also includes the rebate so that is the "employee price". I was unsure as to whether or not their "promotion" included rebates, however, I do know that in the past when we have purchased cars under both GMS and GMO pricing (my dad's brother works for GM), the rebates were *not* included in the price...they were added in on top of the GMS/GMO pricing. You still get all of the related promotions, and they just use GMS/GMO price as the starting point instead of sticker.

[mikey00]

It is my understanding that the employee price that is offered to everyone includes all rebates. Employee pricing for employees may or may not have included rebates but that doesn't matter to us non-employees.In April I was also able to use another $3000 in GM card points which now can't be combined with employee pricing.

[Houston]

Admitting to not having read this thread in it's entirety: I've bought a new Grand Prix GTP and a Base Vibe since retiring from GM in 1996. All rebates and incentives available to the public further reduces the price to GM employees and retirees.

[jake75]

Getting to the core - all I am saying is that the prices being advertised by GM include the applicable rebates. Don't expect another $1,000 off of those prices on the Vibe.

[michaelgt]

To highlight, GM has a "GMS" price that is printed on all vehicle invoices that identifies the sales price for the vehicle if it is purchased by an employee or eligible family member. Additionally, GM offers sales incentives. These are usually rebates or low cost financing terms. The advertised price (windows, web, print) may include incentives. They should be noted as to what is included. It may be rebates (vehicle or conquest), loyalty certificates, etc. Therefore, the best thing is to use GMBuyPower to verify the GMS price, and the GM incentives listing to determine the price. Based on my example noted, the GMS price is about 11% less then MSRP on the Vibe.

[jake75]

Chevy dealer ad in toiday's paper offering a $250 discount in addition to the GMS proce and reabte, e.g. Cobalt $15,810 MSRP, $14,380 GMS, $500 rebate, $250 discount, net $13,630.

[monkeyvibe]

Jake75 is right. Just got back from the dealer and the price on the window for the current promotion already reflects the GMS discount AND the $1000 rebate. You still get both, but the total on the new stickers from GM already includes both.

[binary]

We needed to trade our gas guzzler SUV and "on-last-leg" sedan in for two new vehicles - we chose Vibes because of many reasons. The price was the deal cincher.The emp. discount and the $1,000 deal was nice - but the clincher was the additional $1,000 conquest deal on each Vibe... We waited a few days for our dealer to make some trades to get in our two Vibes and drove off the lot with +10 and +15MPG and -$200/month total payment compared to our previous two vehicles.I agree with the one plan pricing - it used to be my wife that got to be the bulldog when it comes to dealing with car dealers and their sales tacticts, this time it was refreshingly easy.