whirring noise 25-45 mph under load

[joatmon]

noticed a new sound today, what do you think might cause it?No, I won't leave it at that excellent description, there's more whirring sound is hard to describe, kind of a warbling whirring sound, (like thhe modulation you get when you talk into a fan) seems to be coming from the front, seems like from the passenger side, although it's kinda hard to tell for sure.the pitch seems to be speed related, and it is only when under load, trying to accelerate. It might be there at lower/higher speeds, but with the combination of the pitch and the road/engine noise I can only really hear when the vehicle speed is between 25 and 45 mph. Doesn't matter what gear I'm in, although hitting those speeds in first gear means I can't hear much else, and in fifth, there doesn't seem to be enough torque to cause the problem. I haven't been able to find a curvy enough road to see if going those speeds under load around a curve has any effect. sound really seems to be related to speed, independent of gear or RPM, but only under load. Accelerate=sound, coast=no soundWhat might it be, and how do I narrow it down?2003 base vibe 5-speed 75K milesall electrical stuff off fan set to off, air direction selector has no effectno vibration, just sound. Maybe similar to http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=7802

[Mavrik]

Does it change pitch when you steer left or right? I'm thinking wheel bearing or tire. However if its under load only that you hear it... would not make sense as a tire or a wheel bearing. It could be in your transmission... Several 5 speed transmissions have developed problems with bearings. I'd have to hear it and I'd know.

[pissedoffgokart]

Does it sound kinda like an RC car but not as loud and slightly different pitch?

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik ». It could be in your transmission... Several 5 speed transmissions have developed problems with bearings. make that several plus one you &^#@! jinx

[Mavrik]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »make that several plus one you &^#@! jinxwell not sure if your trying to be insulting but what ever. guess that means I don't need to ask what it turned out to be.

[joatmon]

not trying to be insulting, was sort of trying to make a humourous comment but I guess my disappointment in the projected cost of repair dominated. sorry for the confusion

[Ponyota]

So it was the tranny? Not a late Christmas present left by Santa under your hood in the shape of a Supercharger?

[Mavrik]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »not trying to be insulting, was sort of trying to make a humourous comment but I guess my disappointment in the projected cost of repair dominated. sorry for the confusionOut of warranty already? damn... to bad you americans don't get the powertrain warranty on american bought vehicles.

[joatmon]

my 2003 5 speed base vibe has 76700 miles on it, that's a little more than 120K kms, so yes, beyond warranty.I called the local GM dealer, and they said that they might be able to get my car in to check it out sometime next week, so I called the Toyota dealer, and they said bring it on in. (Does this mean that GM cars need more dealer service?) The toyota service people were a little cautious at first, and warned me that although Vibe and Matrix werre effectively the same car, their experience with the Corolla/Prizm generation showed that some parts might be different. This didn't affect me this time though.Their diagnosis was that the bearings were going, either the pinion and/or the carrier bearings. They said that in these trannies, to get to the bearings you have to remove the pressed on gears, which is hard on the gears, and when they overhaul one they use new gears. Basically the parts and labor cost ot overhaul is not cost efficient. They gave me an estimate of $3300 to put in a brand new tranny, or $1700 to put in a used tranny. I found a place that is selling me a used (18K miles) 5 speed for an even grand. The GM service gave me an estimate of $500 labor to do the swap. I didn't get a labor only swap estimate from the Toyota dealer, or from any of the local unaffiliated shops. So now I am waiting for the local yard to get the tranny from their other yard, and then I need to decide if I am going to pay someone to do the swap or if I am going to do it myself. I also need to decide if I want to go ahead and replace the clutch/throwout bearing while I have the tranny out. There isn't a lot of empirical data on base clutch wear, if it was a GT I would defintiely go for the new clutch. Probabaly go for the clutch anyway because it looks like a protracted procedure to pull the tranny.

[Mavrik]

yeah the two Vibes I came across when I worked for the dealership with that concern ended up with new transmissions because the cost of removal and install of a new transmission was a cheaper bill to warranty then the time and parts to take apart and overhaul. I'd hate to see the cost in canadian dollors... Sorry for your bad case of luck.

[joatmon]

I picked up my replacement tranny today, I got as a bonus the clutch fork and a free throwout bearing, the hydraulic clutch cylinder, and some other things still bolted onto the tranny. I'll post up a pic later. The tranny came with a "101 day warranty" ha ha, I'll definitely be putting more miles on it than they probably think, with my commute, that will be about 10K miles. I am glad they only rated it by time, and not time/miles The time starts today, so I want to try to get it in this weekendI called both Toyota and Pontiac dealers to see what a clutch and throwout bearing cost, becuase I've decided to do this myself and replace those while I have it apart. Both places couldn't (or wouldn't) even begin to look up the part numbers until I gave them a VIN. Just to be obfuscational, I'll use the VIN# the tranny came out of when I talk to Pontiac tomorrow, and I'll pick a 5-speed Matrix off ebay for when I talk to the Toyota dealer.

[joatmon]

FYI -2003 - Base Vibe 5 speed, Base/XR Matrix 5-speed, Corolla 5 speedAll the same clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing and transmission.Toyota Part NumbersThrowout Bearing 3123012191Clutch Disk 3125005101Pressure Plate 3121005041Toyota cost for all three ~$250GM Part Numbers (see note below)Throwout Bearing 88969243Clutch Disk 88973140Pressure Plate 88972506Pontiac cost for all three ~$250GMPartsDirect.com price for all three $143.24 + S&HI'd go for the gmpartsdirect, but don't want to wait for the shipping, so am going to pick up a Duralast clutch kit from autozone, PN NU31569, will get it Friday so I should be able to do the swap this weekend.Important/Interesting/sad/humorous note - talking to the Pontiac parts dept, told him I wanted to find out part number and cost for these three parts for an 03 base Vibe, and he asked "Really?" , I said yes, he asked again "Are you sure?", I sighed and said, yes, I'm sure, so he went off, I heard some keys clicking and then finally he said "I'll be damned! I didn't believe that they made a Vibe with a manual transmission." so I guess I should include a caution that the pontiac part numbers should be verified before anyone actually orders them by those numbers, the person I talked to was not what I would hope for as a pontiac parts expert

[damronjr]

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »Important/Interesting/sad/humorous note - talking to the Pontiac parts dept, told him I wanted to find out part number and cost for these three parts for an 03 base Vibe, and he asked "Really?" , I said yes, he asked again "Are you sure?", I sighed and said, yes, I'm sure, so he went off, I heard some keys clicking and then finally he said "I'll be damned! I didn't believe that they made a Vibe with a manual transmission." so I guess I should include a caution that the pontiac part numbers should be verified before anyone actually orders them by those numbers, the person I talked to was not what I would hope for as a pontiac parts expert Most of them aren't, unfortunately! I have gone/called numerous times about parts for the Vibes and they have no clue what I am talking about until they manage to find it on the computer. I asked about the nuts under the hood that hold the top of the front struts in place... it came up with a diagram and said quantity 6. The price came up and said $4. I was like, cool, that's not TOO bad, 6 nuts for $4, I only need 2, so I'll just save the others for a rainy day, at which time he broke to me the fact that they were $4 A PIECE!!!!! And he had to order them!!! I had dealerships. They should just put the cars out there with their prices on them, a list of all the features, and a list of all the parts available and let the people order tthem (cars, parts, and all) online. I'm sure it would take quite a bit of $$ off the price tag as well as the parts!

[joatmon]

Today was my first day with the new tranny. I missed this car more than I should have, it is so nice to have it back !!!I learned two very important things:- I can do it- I will never do it againIt was a real hassle. Next time, if there is one, I will just pay money.My clutch disc was in great shape, I didn't need to replace it, but I did anyway. That was good for my ego, 76K miles and the clutch only had minor wear.Where the shift cables connected to the tranny had a lot of gunk built up, I guess dirt, dust, salt, other misc. crud that made them bind instead of pivot on the post. I recommend them as a lubrication point. (see pic)On a vehicle with ABS, the Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) are in/at the wheels. Without ABS, the VSS is in the tranny. I have ABS, but the car that the replacement tranny came from didn't, so the new tranny had a VSS, the original tranny just had a dummy plate there (see VSS in pic) I also marked the reverse switch in the pic, the sender that makes the back up lights come on when you shift into reverse, in case anyone ever needs to know where it is.I also found that if you get two of the vacuum hoses to the stock air box swapped you will throw a CEL and it will idle like crap and stall, but otherwise run fine

Attached files

[joatmon]

my sons helped. I would have had a rough time lining it up to go back in with just me. It would also have helped a lot to have all the various special tools the manuals are always so happy to refer to. I lost a fair amount of time searching all my belongings for acceptable substitutes. One thing that gave me a real fit was the nuts that hold the axle shafts in the wheel hub. The axle shafts have a groove in them, and after you torque down the wheel nut, you are supposed to use a hammer and punch to cave in the side of the nut into the groove so that it won't work loose. That means that to get the nut off you have to find something to drive up the groove to bend the nut away enough to get the nut to clear the groove. I ended up filing a masonry cut nail into a chisel like weapon that finally did the trick. You have to disconnect the tie rod end from the steering knuckle and the steering knuckle from the fork (or whatever the piece is called), so that the wheel hub just hangs from the strut assy, in order to get the driveaxle out. Also had to remove some of the structural type pieces underneath, I forget what they are called. some of that stuff is really torqued. I should get an alignment, the books say to do so, but I haven't yet. Seems to track pretty straight, but it's something I should do after these tweaks, to make sure I don't wear out my tires, and also to make sure I don't suffer any gas mileage losses from a bad alignment.almost got a ticket today, but the cop pulled over the car in front of me instead. The one I was about to pass I also now have a spare clutch slave cylinder, if anyone needs one at some point. came on the replacement tranny, left the original one in so that I wouldn't have to bleed the line.

[joatmon]

new tranny appears to be shot, jacked up the front and running it in gear, it sounds horrible whenever in gear, stopping one wheel or the other has no effect, sound is coming from the tranny for sure. plenty of the right kind of gear oil in it. This time I'm taking it to a tranny shop to fix. The replacement one came with a warranty, so hopefully this time it will just be labor cost, but I'm not messing with it this time, time is money, got more money than time right now, time to throw money at the problem.so have fun vibin without me, mine is down for now, again.

[ColonelPanic]

That sucks man! I know how it feels... Hopefully you'll be up and running again soon... again..

[CyBeRjUnKiE]

sorry to hear your vibe being out of commission for a while. I know the feeling, took me 3 weeks to get my vibe back, and I finally got it back just yesterday. I hope it's not out for too long for you.

[joatmon]

this time I just took the car in to a tranny shop and they came up with the expert diagnosis "you tranny is shot" duhso I finally found the receipt for the replacement tranny, has a 101 day warranty, I'm currently at day 62. I'll find out tomorrow what they will do to cover the warranty on it.This one seems to have failed in the same way as the original one, same sound, same symptoms. This is an unlikely coincidence. i figure if it was a typical problem for this model tranny, I wouldn't be the only one here with the problem. Also, the original one lasted 75K miles, the replacement went bad after 5K miles in my car. So, I'm thinking there is something in my car that is killing trannies, and I'm worried if I put another one in there I might only get another 5K miles out of it before it goes bad too. Only thing I can think of would be an out of balance drive axle, vibrating the differential to an early death. is that plausible? drive axles are the only thing I can think of, so I'll probably replace them just to play it safe, Is there something else that could cause it?