GM says Honda's powertrains industry benchmark

[ragingfish]

Quote »GM rates Honda powertrains as industry benchmark after internal analysis of J.D. Power studyDALE JEWETT | Automotive NewsPosted Date: 5/25/05Honda Motor Co.'s powertrains are the new industry benchmark in General Motors' eyes.Honda's engines and transmissions ranked first among those of six automakers included in an internal GM analysis of the latest J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study data.Honda powertrains had 15.3 problems per 100 vehicles in the first 90 days of ownership, according to data in the GM analysis obtained by Automotive News.GM powertrains were second-best on the list -- ahead of Toyota Motor Corp. for the first time in eight years. Toyota ranked No. 1 in the GM analysis last year.GM would not discuss the calculations it performed on the J.D. Power data to rank itself and five key competitors: Honda, Toyota, Nissan Motor Co., DaimlerChrysler and Ford Motor Co.J.D. Power does not make its powertrain surveys public, but sells the reports to automakers for internal use. Buying the reports gives automakers access to the consultant's database of survey responses. GM compiled its rankings from the raw data.GM regularly uses data from J.D. Power studies to study product quality and make improvements, spokeswoman Janine Fruehan said."Based on the data we have, we do feel that our automatic transmissions are industry-leading," Fruehan said. "Beyond that, I can't comment on an internal study."According to the GM analysis, GM powertrains had 18.1 problems per 100 vehicles. Nissan ranked third among the six automakers at 18.3 problems per 100.Toyota, last year's leader in the GM analysis, slipped to fourth this year. Its powertrains had 18.7 problems per 100 vehicles in this year's rankings, compared with 16.4 last year.DaimlerChrysler powertrains had 24.3 problems per 100 vehicles, GM calculated. Ford had 26.6 problems per 100 vehicles.Raw J.D. Power data included in the GM analysis indicate that Honda performed well in engine quality. Its engines had 10.1 problems per 100 vehicles in 2005, down from 11.8 in 2004.GM ranked powertrain quality on a corporate basis, but also produced a ranking of 22 brands. In that list Jaguar came out on top, with 9.3 problems per 100 vehicles. Infiniti was second, and Buick was third, ahead of Toyota's Lexus Division. Cadillac placed fifth in the by-brand rankings of powertrain quality.A J.D. Power spokesman would not comment on GM's analysis.The Initial Quality Study, released Wednesday, May 18, asked owners to rate vehicle quality on 135 attributes across nine categories after 90 days of ownership. The categories include ride and handling, engine and transmission and fit and finish.Source: " TARGET="_blank">http://autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102 ... Commentary: GM no doubt has rock-solid automatic transmissions. But put the old and dated 4T80 out to pasture, and bring in a solid class-leading 5 or 6 speed automatic transmission. A 4 speed is great for a car like the Aveo, Sunfire, and even the Vibe. But a powerplan like the 3600 or 3800 should never be mated with a 4 speed -- as it is in the G6. They need to bring in fresh components. If GM can bring in a 5 or 6 speed auto, and build it as solid and reliable as their 4 has been, they will for sure turn heads, and even win back a lot of customers.

Attached files

[ColonelPanic]

If there's one thing GM can do, and can do very well, that's building one hell of a nice, smooth automatic. Whatever direction they take, I hope they never do anything to jeopardize the tranny's overall smoothness. THey really excel there, IMHO.

[MadBill]

There's an old story about Rolls Royce, who used GM's TH400 tranny for many years, tearing down one of the prototypes they ordered for testing, and finding that some of the machining didn't match their standards. They 'fixed' all the problems, then started testing it and found that it shifted like c**p. Turned out the rough machining was deliberate to ensure proper distribution of ATF over various contact surfaces...BTW, GM does have a growing volume of 5 speed automatics in production now, with 6 speeds in the near future. In fact for a number of years they have sold a 5 speed auto to BMW.

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by MadBill »BTW, GM does have a growing volume of 5 speed automatics in production now, with 6 speeds in the near future. In fact for a number of years they have sold a 5 speed auto to BMW.Really? I never knew that...I think a car like the G6, the LaCrosse (or Allure), and even the upcoming Lucerne need at minimum a 5 speed auto...seems to be those would do a better job taking advantage of the larger engine's power band...

[03VibeGT6Spd]

What ever happened to the 6-speed automatic that GM and Ford where building together?I was under the impression that they built a plant to build them or design it.

[ColonelPanic]

Hmm, I think I recall that - wasn't that just a year or so ago?I believe whatever partnership has all but dissolved, but not sure....

[ragingfish]

Correct you two are:Quote »GM and Ford are working together to produce a new six-speed automatic transmission for front wheel drive vehicles. GM and Ford will use the new transmission in high-volume large cars and sport-utility vehicles, and are expecting annual sales to be in the hundreds of thousands of units. Among vehicles to offer the new transmission will be GM's Saturn Ion and Saturn Vue beginning in 2006.GM and Ford will invest an estimated $720 million and preserve a total of 1,100 jobs in the three plants where the new transmission will be built.Source: Ford Motor Company; General Motors CorporationSource: http://www.greenmachinestour.org/atfordgm6.shtml

[ColonelPanic]

So I guess the partnership is still alive and kicking.... This is gonna be interesting. A smooth shifting six speed auto that's good for 50,000 miles, tops. j/k folks.

[03VibeGT6Spd]

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic »A smooth shifting six speed auto that's good for 50,000 miles, tops. j/k folks. ROTFLMAO!

[ColonelPanic]

Ok, I guess I should be fair... So it'll be a smooth shifting 6 speed tranny with a desire to spontaneously combust. Once again, just kidding guys. Seriously though, you can always learn a thing or two from the other guy. No matter how bizarre the partnership may be, there will be knowledge gained for all parties involved. Most of the time.

[soldierguy]

Hmmm...a Ford/GM automatic...strange. I like GM automatics...very smooth, responsive, and reliable. I hate Ford automatics...I've never read much on their reliability but I just don't like the way they shift...Ford automatic transmission gear changes always seem to be a high-drama event, and I think that Ford's programming leaves the converter locked too much...when the computer finally tells the transmission to unlock, there's a flurry of revs as it unlocks the converter and downshifts all at once, when a simple converter unlock done sooner would have done the trick. But my comments are all based on Ford's 4-speed autos that they had in the old body style Mustangs...I haven't driven anything with their new 5-speed auto installed in the new Mustang or the 6-speed auto installed in the new Ford 500.