Heavy steering

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:13 pm

Well, I figured it wouldn't last long - nothing new has broken on the Vibe for at least a month or so. But now, yet another problem with this finely crafted piece of engineering from the all mighty Toyota...When stopped, the steering wheel is becoming very difficult to turn. It used to be very light, but now it takes both hands and a struggle to turn the stupid thing. The steering is very stiff and heavy, and it really puts up a fight... Driving, it isn't noticeable.I am getting some bit of assist, since it's a heck of a lot worse trying to turn the wheel with the engine not running. I've checked the obvious - tire pressures, power steering fluid (which for some reason is above max, but i have never added any.) That's about all I can check... I'm going to check my friend's Vibe for comparison, you never know - I could be smoking crack again. Any ideas? My only guess is the rack or possibly the power steering pump is jacked. Damn, this extended warranty is coming in handy...

Mr. Poopypants · Post by **Mr. Poopypants** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:17 pm

My guess would be the power steering pump. I had that happen in my last car.

Ponyota · Post by **Ponyota** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:20 pm

My guess is the power steering pump... The fluid is being pushed back and that's why your reservoir is a little more full than usual. It might even decide to overflow if you were to take off the cap and turn your wheels. You could also have a pinched line. Just a guess cause I've never even looked at mine.

Mase · Post by **Mase** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:10 am

Try this:1. Bring car to a stop2. Turn the wheel all the way to the right, hold and exhale.3. Turn the wheel all the way to the left, hold and exhale.4. Repeat for 5 sets. Rest for 30secs between sets.You should see results in 4-6 weeks when doing it 3x a day. Remember to stretch afterwards and use a spotter if necessary.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:30 am

I'm getting the opposite actually - I looked to see how the fluid level fluctuates... When turning the wheel fully in either direction, fluid drans out of the reservior. It still doesn't get down to the max level, but comes somewhat close. Let go of the wheel and the fluid level raises back up.The fluid does look rather dark as well... Not sure if that's a problem, or if it's just 44,000 mile old fluid. Gonna schedule an appt. at the dealer to get this looked at. I guess this is a good thing, build some muscles! But I'm too lazy for that, I'd rather not have to do any more manual labor than is necessary. lol

zionzr2 · Post by **zionzr2** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:12 pm

Quote, originally posted by Mase Â»Try this:1. Bring car to a stop2. Turn the wheel all the way to the right, hold and exhale.3. Turn the wheel all the way to the left, hold and exhale.4. Repeat for 5 sets. Rest for 30secs between sets.You should see results in 4-6 weeks when doing it 3x a day. Remember to stretch afterwards and use a spotter if necessary. How long before you wear a hole in your tire???

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:50 pm

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic Â»The fluid does look rather dark as well... Not sure if that's a problem, or if it's just 44,000 mile old fluid. Wouldn't think so. My fluid is dark at 52000 miles and steers fine

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:36 pm

I've got yet another list of broken crap, so I'll be taking this thing in sometime this week... The steering isn't getting any better, so I suppose I had better get this taken care of while the car can still be driven. That may be bad if I ignore this particular problem for too long. Could potentially be a safety hazard or something...

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:00 am

Quote Â»C CUSTOMER STATES THAT THE VEH IS HARD TO TURN WHEN TRAVELING SLOW OR AT A STOPNPF UNABLE TO DUPLICATE CONCERNThe service advisor said "yeah, the steering is a bit tight, but we had it up on the rack and can't find anything wrong with it. It still drives good." Yet another "drive it until it breaks" recommendation.The way it's acting really reminds me of how my Malibu acted when the rack and pinion crapped out. Pretty sure something along those lines is happening here. Guess we'll see....

Mase · Post by **Mase** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:21 am

Sorry to hear that they kinda blew it off. The way they wrote the service statement kinda makes you sound like you don't know anything about cars. It's almost like saying "CUST STATS AC BLOW COLD WHEN ON". I hate it when you spend 20mins describing a problem to the advisor tech and all they put on the statement is 10 words for the mechanic.Maybe you should pull up to the service advisor booth and "veer" of the driveway and plow through the front office. Get out and say "Umm yeah...my steering is a little heavy...can you fix it now?"

Atomb · Post by **Atomb** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:45 am

Or say it back to them. A technique i picked up awhile ago when dealing with anybody in a 'situation' is to repeat what they're saying back to them and add in the 'broader details'."So let me get this straight, what you're saying is that the 'steering is a bit tight' and 'you can't find anything wrong with it'. So if i'm on the highway tomorrow and all of a sudden i lose steering or am unable to control my car in a situation which results in thousands of dollars worth of damage to my car, you are willing to agree that while it is 'a bit tight, there's nothing wrong with it'? Can you please add those comments to my work order and print and sign a copy for me please."I bet they find the problem after that. It never fails.I think many people don't realize exactly what they're saying/agreeing to until you repeat and clarify.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 5:15 pm

I should probably do something pretty soon... It's getting really, really difficult to drive this thing. Even smacked a few curbs tonight, not sure if I didn't get the wheel turned quite right in time, or what the deal was. But I had a couple good ones. It's getting very, very, very tough to turn the wheel in either direction. Parking lots and stuff are requiring far more effort to drive around in than they should, or ever have in the past."Just a little tight" my (removed)... So, what's next? The only thing I'm thinking, is to go down to the dealer, have them get me the keys to a 2005, and make the service manager compare the two. I would try another dealer... But I'm afraid that they'll give me the typical GM BS response: "normal/due to vehicle design/npf/customer is full of it." Then I'll get stuck paying money for a "diagnostic fee" because the GMPP doesn't cover it. Wouldn't surprise me a bit at this point. Or, I guess I could do what the dealer suggests and ignore it, bring it back in when it gets worse... Only problem is, I'm afraid this piece of crap will be brought back to them on a friggin' rollback, since the car has been totalled... sheesh...Any advice I can get so I can get someone to make an honest effort to look at this issue would be greatly appreciated... I need to find a way to get someone to listen to my damn problem... I wish I was just a *****y, whiny customer that's just making up this crap, but I'm not.

Ponyota · Post by **Ponyota** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:23 am

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic Â» So, what's next? The only thing I'm thinking, is to go down to the dealer, have them get me the keys to a 2005, and make the service manager compare the two. Your on the right track there. The wheel should be easily moved from side to side without any effort. I can turn mine sitting still with one finger inside the wheel spoke. If the manager of the service department doesn't agree with you, go talk with the dealership owner and tell him or her that your car isn't right and you are concerned for your and others safety. Let him know that you bought your car there and that you don't feel that your being treated fairly. Try one thing first. A good way to tell if it's your power steering pump is to sit in your car in park Try turning the wheel normally, feel how tight it is. Now do the same thing, just push on the gas to raise the RPM up some around 1500. Does it turn more freely, stay the same? If it's the same, try a little more RPM's around 2500, stay the same or just a little better? if it's only a little better you got a failing pump.

tnpartsguy · Post by **tnpartsguy** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:45 am

I'm very surprised they didn't try to sell you a power steering system flush; as a 'maintanance item'. PS, it's BS.....they only started selling P/S flushes a few years ago to provide extra income......for the 50 or so years before that power steering was around, nobody every considered flushing the system....

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:35 am

Well, if all else fails, it seems my car shall be the next agent of comparison. There are absolutely no excuses that can be made for why mine, only about 2 or 3 weeks older coming off the line with the *exact* same options, isn't like this and his is. They can't even say, "Well red paint makes it steer better." (Which, at this point, with the way my dealership is and this "normal operation" BS, I wouldn't be too surprised to hear...heh.) I don't have the mileage, but that's the only difference, and that shouldn't cause the steering to do this. Hopefully the 03->05 comparison will work...and there won't be any, "Well, they must have changed the system for '05."Are dealerships really just that reluctant to do warranty work that they'll make ridiculous excuses that actually compromise someone's safety just to keep from fixing the car under the extended warranty?Pretty scary...

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:30 pm

Quote, originally posted by Kari Â»Are dealerships really just that reluctant to do warranty work that they'll make ridiculous excuses that actually compromise someone's safety just to keep from fixing the car under the extended warranty?Pretty scary... Yes, rather frightening! I don't understand dealer logic... What's financially better for a dealer? Every service bay empty - or a bunch of cars in for warranty repairs?Wouldn't cars under warranty bring in some cash for them? Last time I checked, that could kinda be considered business - not having anything in there means no business. I know that warranty work doesn't get them the fat profits that the they steal from the avereage schmuck who comes in for out of warranty repairs, but damn... And when safety is concerned, I have a big problem with this. My intermittent coolant leak where they told me to "keep driving it," that I could deal with. But I do think something that could be potentially dangerous, and them telling me to "keep driving it" without looking thoroughly into my complaints is bull****. Pardon my General American English. How much money can a DEAD customer bring them?Ponyota, I tried what you suggested... Tried getting the revs steady at normal idle, 2K and also at 4K, but it really didn't feel any different. It still was a bear to turn the wheel in either direction. Very little (if any) change in the way it felt. You may be on to something, thanks for the advice! And partsguy, nope they didn't even bother to get a couple bucks out of me for that "essential power steering flush!" Every car I've owned has had power steering, but I never bothered to get the flush - dang, I've been neglecting my automobiles all this time. (removed)!This thing is getting driven back down there on Tuesday morning after I get off work.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:34 am

So, I decide to take the car down to the dealer today to discuss the fact that the car is getting impossible do simple things like, um, drive the thing around parking lots and stuff like that. I guess I'm in the wrong for wanting my car to behave properly like it used to, as I have discovered. Jesus, I hate being such a complete moron... This isn't word for word by any stretch of the imagination, but this is the conversation in a nutshell. From here on out, SA shall be known as service advisor.I walk in, and start talking to the service advisor. I really wanted to speak with the service manager himself, but he was not present at the time... CP: "We need to discuss the issues I'm having with the front end on this car... It isn't getting any better, in fact it seems to be getting worse and I would really like to have you guys take a closer look at it. I would like to have you compare my car with another similar Vibe."SA: He replies, "if we have one. We have to compare to a 2003. A 2005 will not work, since it's new and different." CP thinks to himself, golly gee whilickers, it IS going to be different - you'll be able to turn the wheel on the 2005 a gosh darn heck of a lot easier, i bet!"CP: "Well, if you want, I can have TWO 2003 Vibes readily available for you if you'd like to compare those! My car is NOTHING like those two. Even the '03 that my friend owns with 40,something thousand miles - it steers fine and has about the same mileage as mine. The car isn't driving right, this is NOT normal. I honestly feel that there is a legitimate problem with my car." CP thinks to himself, why the hell have there been visits to the shop where they COMPARED MY CAR AGAINST THE 2005? I thought they were different! Son of a *bleep*!!!!!!!SA: "All I know is I have to trust what my guys tell me. They drove the car and found nothing wrong with it." CP thinks to himself, yes, they did drive it - for less than a minute around the parking lot then they were done with it.SA then says "We can't just put a new rack, pump, or whatever in it. We can't throw new parts in your car, you car is no longer under factory warranty. Yes, you have the GMPP but they will not allow us to put new parts on your car if we can't prove to GM that the parts are defective." CP thinks to himself, (removed) would make the GMPP that different than the original GM warranty? I'm under the assumption that ANY warranty claim, extended or not, GM MUST approve the warranty work, or else they won't get any money, right? He's acting like under the GM warranty, you can just say, "uh my engine is broken" and they'll put a new one in it. But under the GMPP, you can't just say, "uh my engine is broken" and they won't allow getting a new engine.SA then says, as I'm shaking my head, not giving him any further eye contact, and walking to the door "Well, we can get it in to look at it. They need to do a pressure test on it before we can replace anything. I don't know man, I was supposed to leave 10 minutes ago."CP: "So, you guys DIDN'T check the pressure to see if it was within specs the other day?" And gosh, sorry I'm keeping you from leaving...SA: "No, I have to listen to my guys - and they said nothing was wrong. So we didn't test it. But we can. You drive the car more than we do, so you should know there is a problem. I can even go for a ride with you and have you show me what's going on..."CP: "Yes, I do drive the car more than you. And yes, I KNOW that it is not driving normally." SA: "Well, when you're going slow, it requires more force to turn."CP: "I am certainly aware of the physics behind that. I know that it would be harder to turn the slower you go. BUT, it NEVER took this much effort to turn. Something is wrong with my car. And just so you know, I'm NOT looking for a freebie here. I know you guys can only do what you're allowed, and I'm not standing here demanding new parts. I just would like it if my car was looked at closer, and I'm sure you'll find something wrong with it. I feel this is a valid safety concern and I would like it addressed..."SA: "Well, you can have a rack or p/s pump die at any time."SA: "How about we get your car in here and look at it. Is tomorrow ok?" Whatever.I like the Vibe, and it's done wonders for me personally, but I get sick to my stomach when I have to drive the damn thing. I can't deal with it anymore. For the majority here who have had good luck with yours, you have been blessed. I've been cursed.The dealer who I've had such good luck with in the past now doesn't want to work on my car. That's obvious, is it not? Not sure what I've done to (removed) them off, I have given them nothing but the kindness, courtesey, and respect. You know, exactly the way I would like to be treated as a loyal customer? Can I help it that I'm extremely (removed) about all these stupid issues with my car? I'm paying out the wazoo for it, and I'd at least like to have something nice and semi-reliable to drive. I'm sorry, Mr. Dealership, but I can't help it that NUMMI has assembeled a vehicle with an alarming number of defective TOYOTA parts and you, a representative of GM, have to keep working on it all the time. I'm sorry, it's not my fault.If I were the type who goes out and beats the hell out of his car, I could expect being treated like a piece of dog crap. But I'm not. I'm far from that. If I were the type of customer that stood there and cussed them out because of whatever reason, I could see being treated like this. Yet again, I'm not. I'm a hell of a nice guy, and I have a high tolerance to deal with BS and still have a smile on my face. I've been noting but patient with them, but this is it.I'm done with this dealer. I can't believe how much like crap they've been treating me lately. This is sad, they used to be so good. Good to the point where I'd drive a half hour to get out there for service, when there's another Pontiac dealer right down the road. I'm going to call down there tomorrow and cancel my appointment and discuss this with the service manager and tell him why I'm cancelling the appointment."As a customer who has been loyal to your dealership, unfortunately it appears to be obvious that you no longer want to service my vehicle. I will be taking it elsewhere."I'll also be calling their customer relations manager, and probably Pontiac as well. Yes, they offered to get my car looked at, possibly giving it a legitimate effort to see what is wrong. That was nice of them, but they should have looked closer to begin with. And I know exactly what's going to happen tomorow - out of spite, I wouldn't be surprised to see them put NO PROBLEMS FOUND, NORMAL, or whatever on the paperwork. I will be checking into other dealers in the area. I am not sure how good or bad they are, but there is a Pontiac/Toyota dealer about 45 minutes from here. I'll call and schedule an appointment with those guys, I guess.Or just go take a massive loss financially, and ditch this piece of crap NOW. What good is keeping it, if it will only continue to get worse and I threw money away on the GM warranty, knowing that nobody will work on the damn thing? I just don't know anymore. Sorry folks. I hate to be so whiny, but I ask, am I out of line at all with this? I don't feel that I am, but you never know.

tnpartsguy · Post by **tnpartsguy** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:14 am

OK, here's what I am thinking.....looking at the parts catalog right now, brbSorry, my laptop doesn't have enuf memory to run MicroCat very quickly and have the wireless card in.....ANYWAYIt's like I thought, our Vibe's have progressive power steering. Lots of assist at low speeds, and none at cruising speeds. More than likely your car has a problem in that area, either the switch (on top of the PS pump, btw) has a bad connection, or is defective. I doubt you have a bad steering pump or rack, my guess is the problem is electrical. I'll try to get on Techline tomarrow to see if there are any notations about it for you to use with your dealership.

tnpartsguy · Post by **tnpartsguy** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:31 am

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic Â»Yes, rather frightening! I don't understand dealer logic... What's financially better for a dealer? Every service bay empty - or a bunch of cars in for warranty repairs?Wouldn't cars under warranty bring in some cash for them? Last time I checked, that could kinda be considered business - not having anything in there means no business. I know that warranty work doesn't get them the fat profits that the they steal from the avereage schmuck who comes in for out of warranty repairs, but damn... Part of the problem is GM is cutting corners EVERYWHERE, and one of the big cuts this year is warranty expense. You do too much warranty work, they will hound you, audit you, refuse to pay for claims, ect. It's a catch 22. Not taking up for your dealership at all, but I thought you should know the quandry they are in as well. BTW, I totally agree, they wall jobbed you the 1st time (for those who don't know, Wall Job is a dealer term for parking a car out back, and telling the customer later that it 'performs to specs'. It's crap I know, but it happens....

Ponyota · Post by **Ponyota** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:44 am

Sounds to me like you did the right thing. Keeping on them about checking it out is the only thing you can do. He did the right thing by letting you know that they didn't do a pressure check and that they will do it. He is basically giving you the benefit of the doubt. In other words, hes giving in. Just what I thought that he would do. I'll bet you they will find something wrong. If you reported this problem before your warranty was up, shouldn't they replace it under the original warranty? I would give them one more chance. See what they say before you take it to another dealer. If this dealer doesn't find anything wrong this time and another dealer does, then you really have something to let them know besides your complaint with how they are treating you.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:46 am

Thanks for reading through my ranting and raving, and giving me a good suggestion. So, we do have variable assist steering? If something has crapped out there, it makes perfect sense.It drives perfectly fine at higher speeds. It's the low speed stuff that's a bear.If something there was going on, wouldn't the PCM know that something was wrong? I would think it could trigger a check engine light if something there was screwed up? Or it could still kinda be working but not reporting the correct data back... The input is greatly appreciated. It's still up in the air whether I even want to keep the appt with the current dealer, I'm still kinda fuming over the way they treated me today... But anything you can find out, perhaps I could use with the Toyota/Pontiac dealer...I dunno...

tnpartsguy · Post by **tnpartsguy** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:49 am

I'll get on Techline 1st thing in the AM....you have an '03 or '04? And is it base, AWD, or GT?

21Rouge · Post by **21Rouge** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:59 am

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic Â»SA then says "We can't just put a new rack, pump, or whatever in it. We can't throw new parts in your car, you car is no longer under factory warranty. Yes, you have the GMPP but they will not allow us to put new parts on your car if we can't prove to GM that the parts are defective." CP thinks to himself, (removed) would make the GMPP that different than the original GM warranty? I'm under the assumption that ANY warranty claim, extended or not, GM MUST approve the warranty work, or else they won't get any money, right? I do wonder how the first 3 year 'bumper to bumper' warranty differs from the GMPP warranty?

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:14 am

It's a base 2003, automatic.

tnpartsguy · Post by **tnpartsguy** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:29 am

Quote, originally posted by Boxgrover Â»I do wonder how the first 3 year 'bumper to bumper' warranty differs from the GMPP warranty? Major differences in 3/36 versus GMPP Major Guard (there are different levels of GMPP, we are going to stick with Major Guard, as the other levels don't cover as much);All operations have to be called in before repairs and approved.Any repair over $750 requires an adjuster to come out and examine the vehicle and the failure. If the car appears to have had no or poor maintance, the claim is denied on the spot. If the problem appears to be caused by non-GM added equipment, including aftermarket wheels, intakes, CAI's ect, the claim is denied. If the problem appears to be damage, rather than failure, the claim is denied. if the problem was caused by a wear item (such as brake pads) that wern't replaced in a timely manner, the claim will be denied.Basically, it's a minefield, and you better have everything perfectly dotted and crossed.BTW, 3/36 doesn't cover bumper-to-bumper anyway. Brake pads are only covers to 2/24, bulbs as well, and wiper blades. Leather isn't covered against normal wear and cracking. Tires are warrantied by there manufacterer.

tnpartsguy · Post by **tnpartsguy** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:04 pm

The only bulletin I found was about the P/S Fluid.....it uses Dextron III, not brake or power steering fluid like most cars. Talked to my driveability tech, he said I might be onto something with the P/S pressure switch. He said it would NOT throw a check engine light. I'd definatly have them check that, as well as do a pressure test.Let us know the outcome.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:44 pm

Thanks for the info... I won't get it looked at today though. I just called the dealer and told them I'm not coming in today. "Ok, would you like to reschedule?" "Honestly, I don't" I replied. I'm going to scope out the various Pontiac dealers around here and bring it in to one of those guys... I'll run the info you gave me by whoever I decide I want to work on this car...

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:32 am

I scheduled an appointment with the dealer not too far from home... Going in on Monday bright and early... I shall keep everyone posted...

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:25 pm

This was strange, but last evening I fired up the ol' Vibe and took off for a drive, and the steering was perfectly normal... Very light, easy to turn. The Vibe's outside temp gauge was reading around the 36-38 degree range... It stiffened up a bit after the engine warmed up but nothing anywhere near as bad as it has been here lately... huh? lol!I first noticed this problem as the weather was getting warmer... How would warmer temps affect the steering so? Trying to figure out how this could be a warm weather thing... Ugh, I don't know... It's going to be in the mid to upper 40's by the time it goes in the shop tomorrow... Keep your fingers crossed for me, let's hope this thing is misbehavin' first thing tomorrow! I'm gonna be ticked if the cold temps are making it act all normal and stuff.

Ponyota · Post by **Ponyota** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:23 am

I can't imagine the outside temperature is going to make that big of a difference. But who knows? Good luck tomorrow

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:14 am

What'dya know, the new dealer spent an hour actually looking at the car and found there actually is a problem! Gee, who would have guessed? They said the power steering pump wasn't putting out enough pressure at idle or at low engine speeds... So, a new pump is on order.

Atomb · Post by **Atomb** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:13 am

that's great! (not that there's a problem, but that it was found )it's amazing what somebody with some skill and the ability to actually do their job can accomplish eh?

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:32 am

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic Â»... the new dealer ...glad you found one worth going to

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:47 am

I have a strong suspicion that the other dealer was just looking for a way to get out of working on his car...and it makes me angry that they were willing to compromise his safety to accomplish that. (Especially by blatantly brushing off and not addressing something that he told them he felt was a safety issue.)[begin slightly off-topic rant]Then again, too many dealers in all now are too focused on selling you the car and not focused at all on servicing it after the sale. Customer service is the key to customer equity -- if you get good service, you'll come back and buy another car from them later. If you don't, then you won't. And it doesn't end there, because a customer who has an unfavorable experience will tell about 10 people about it, while a customer who has a favorable experience may recommend the product/store/dealer/etc. to one or two other people, and that's it. Negative reactions are far more damaging, and it takes a lot more positive reactions to balance out those negatives.Even the dealership I take my Vibe to for service, I have not been impressed with. And I'm sure I'm not the only person who gets treated that way at that dealership, and I know I'm definitely not the only person on here who is frustrated with the service they're getting for their Vibe. GM, Pontiac, the dealerships...someone here has a major problem, maybe all three, and it needs looking at before they build so much negativity that they lose a catastrophic amount of customer equity. I love my Vibe, and I'd love to have a G6 coupe someday, but unless I can find a Pontiac dealership worth going to, I'll have to look at another GM brand, or maybe not even a GM vehicle at all. Only time will tell.Anyway... [/end slightly off-topic rant] Yeah, hopefully this dealership will work out better than the first one...I'm just glad someone found the problem and is going to fix it, rather than lie and try to say it's "normal" when it's obviously not. Here's to the (hopeful) absence of future frustration...

Atomb · Post by **Atomb** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:56 am

...and supposedly they make most of their money from service and not so much from sales...which leaves me scratching my head even more!

Ponyota · Post by **Ponyota** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:54 am

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic Â»What'dya know, the new dealer spent an hour actually looking at the car and found there actually is a problem! Gee, who would have guessed? They said the power steering pump wasn't putting out enough pressure at idle or at low engine speeds... So, a new pump is on order. Exactly what I thought. That's why I had ya do that higher rpm thing. Glad yer gettin it fixed now

21Rouge · Post by **21Rouge** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:06 pm

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic Â»What'dya know, the new dealer spent an hour actually looking at the car and found there actually is a problem! Gee, who would have guessed? Just curious CP but did it ever become known that another dealer had already try and failed to solve this steering problem?

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:09 pm

I didn't tell the new dealer anything about the situation with the previous dealer... I just scheduled an appointment and arrived at the designated time. The new guys know that I am a new customer - the car wasn't bought at their dealer nor have they ever worked on it. I'd say there is a good chance they looked at the service history, but they never said anything about it.I didn't want to go into the new guys and say "these guys at dealer x didn't want to work on my car, so I'm asking you to."

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:17 pm

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic Â»I didn't tell the new dealer anything about the situation with the previous dealer... I just scheduled an appointment and arrived at the designated time. The new guys know that I am a new customer - the car wasn't bought at their dealer nor have they ever worked on it. I'd say there is a good chance they looked at the service history, but they never said anything about it.I didn't want to go into the new guys and say "these guys at dealer x didn't want to work on my car, so I'm asking you to." Yeah they can bring up any claims put through under warranty or through GMPP and its good to just walk in with your mouth closed about bad experiences elsewhere. It can lead to one of two things. They are all over you wishing to kiss your (removed) to make you so happy and always come back (the best response) Or just think your a hard to please customer that another dealership got enough of and said to go somewhere else and now your this new dealership's nightmare (which does happen) and then you only get required assistance without the sucking up

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:03 pm

Yeah, I figued silence was the best policy. I went in, stated my case, mentioned that I've personally noticed a tremendous difference with two different Vibes compared to mine, and that was that... It wasn't like pulling teeth as it was with the other dealer just to get them to look at the car.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:06 pm

It couldn't come soon enough... I was kinda stressing over the whereabouts of said power steering pump... It's getting pretty erratic - one minute I struggle to turn the wheel, the next I have a lot more boost. Plus I'm getting this cool errrrrrrrrrwww sound from the pump each time I turn the wheel. My, how it has gone downhill quickly! I'm glad these guys at the new dealer took the time to look into the car, this could have been bad, methinks...So I called the dealer to check up on it. The service advisor there was just about to call me, I beat him to it by not much time at all. The part came just came in. Very nice guy there, btw! He put me down for Monday morning. We shall see... It's gotta be the pump, so I have somewhat of a good feeling this shall resolve this particular problem.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Mon May 02, 2005 6:55 am

Done... Sir Knocksalot was down there the entire day, due to them having another car ahead of me all tore apart. New pump, and power steering fluid all over the place. At least they made an attempt to clean it up. lolHe said it may be making some weird noises due to small amounts of air in the system, but that only lasted a short while. It's a significant improvement... Probably will feel a little weird until it gets the remainder of the air or whateve worked out... I dunno. On the invoice:88970127 PUMP 6.60588970127 CORE RETURN89021184 FLUID 8.800The pump appears to be around $200. Not sure how much labor was. Extended warranty took care of it all.BTW, can someone in the know check the p/n on that fluid for me so I can know for sure if they used the right stuff? lol! I always worry about things like that with this car, since it doesn't take typical GM fluids and such. lolHopefully this is the last time I have to bring the car in for this particular problem, at least.

BlueCrush · Post by **BlueCrush** » Mon May 02, 2005 7:25 am

Glad to see your were able to get it fixed under warranty at a different dealer.

tnpartsguy · Post by **tnpartsguy** » Mon May 02, 2005 9:26 am

Note to self, check part # tomarrow at work.....

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Fri May 06, 2005 5:27 am

Heh, it ain't fixed... Yes, it's better but it still seems to be a bit tight. Just to make sure I wasn't smoking crack like I obviously have a habit of doing, I had the future Mrs. take Sir Knocksalot for a spin... She pretty well confirmed that yes, there's a noticeable difference between the two. Dang, it's so nice having other, non-dysfunctional cars similar to mine available to make comparisons. Hers definitely isn't like this one.Any ideas on what to look for next? Or what to tell the dealer next?Is this ever getting old.............

tnpartsguy · Post by **tnpartsguy** » Sun May 08, 2005 11:38 pm

Sorry about the delay; that is the right part # for the fluid. Did they replace that flow control valve? It SHOULD have come with the new pump, but I'd ask to make 100% sure.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Mon May 09, 2005 4:51 am

Cool, that's good to know. I'm not sure if they replaced that valve or not - i'll ask 'em about it sometime soon... Actually had to add fluid today, when hot it was at the minimum cold mark. Threw some Dexron III in there, I guess that's the right stuff for it. *shrug* No telling whether it was low from where they replaced the pump and had to bleed everything out, or if it is leaking somewhere... . Don't know why it was fine for the first few days, now it's getting as stiff as it was prior to pump repalcement.

tnpartsguy · Post by **tnpartsguy** » Mon May 09, 2005 6:46 am

Dex III is correct....I can't figure out what else could be wrong, unless the steering gear itself is bad, or a hose....PS systems are pretty simple.

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Mon May 09, 2005 6:54 am

When I drove it, it was noticeably stiffer than mine. It also has a major power loss when going uphill, maybe because of our altitude here. My friend's dad was postulating that it might all be due to the belt, since the A/C compressor has gone out and the steering is still acting up even after the pump was replaced, and that it would also cause the loss of power because it's taxing the whole system so much. Something's definitely up, and it's not good...hopefully someone can get to the bottom of it eventually. He drove mine as well and said it was how his used to be, so it's not just something the car was "born" with. Here's to hoping Sir Knocksalot eventually get straightened out...and that Marcie doesn't catch his bug!

RoundUp · Post by **RoundUp** » Mon May 09, 2005 12:00 pm

Do you hear any whining noises? That is an easy way to tell if you have a problem with the new pump. You should be able to tell if it sounds really different from Kari's car. If the difference in steering effort is only slight, one thing to bear in mind also is that parts are manufactured at different tolerances. One power steering pump might be just a little better than another, but still be in good working condition. If there is something really wrong with this new pump then it would probably not take too long to manifest itself. Hope everything works out.