General Call out to all you MAC Guys & Girls!! *HELP*

MoonDogg · Post by **MoonDogg** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:05 am

Ok here's it goes.. I want a new computer... I never realy did like windows.. I ran OS/2 for the longest untill it became more of a hassel to run it than it was worth... I have ran linux for awhile.. but now I am married and wife don't know linux.. so I am thinking about getting a mini Mac.. they got a realy nice price on them.. and my wife only use e-mail and surfes the net.. but I will want to use it as well... here are a couple ?'s ( btw I always wanted to try mac but never did $$$ ) how hard is it to learn? can you port programs designed for unix/linux to Mac fairly easy ( sence its unix based ) is there a free VNC program for it? how fast is it? is RAM handeled different because I don't like the idea of only 256mb RAM with 32mb for video... I got more than that now in my PIII 800... oh and BTW I am A+ and NET+ certified and had been in the IT industry for 3+ years but never ran accross a MAC... any suggestions or commits are welcome... thanks in advance...

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:21 am

First thing you need to know...Mac is not an acronym. Now...I have not personally tried porting anything from Linux/Unix to Mac because I have no idea how to do it, but there are people who do it all the time, so it can definitely be done. I just have no idea how easily, but I would assume that you should be able to figure it out or find someone who does.I don't know about a free VNC program...that's something I haven't ever looked into.Speed is very comparable to PCs that have about twice the processor "speed," number-wise. The Mac processor operates differently, so it doesn't take huge numbers to get good speed. RAM is the same as what you put in a PC, so you can definitely upgrade it to whatever you want. I've never in my life on any machine tried to upgrade video RAM, so I don't know about that part...They're very nice machines. If you can get to an Apple store and try one out, do.

drunkenmaxx · Post by **drunkenmaxx** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:48 am

as for being able to figure out how to use it; it is very simple and similar to a PC in many ways.

millster · Post by **millster** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:59 am

Kari and Drunkenvibe answered most of your questions, so I'll catch the ones they didn't. Some things can go from Linux to Mac. If you want to handle the porting yourself, it's not by any means easy. OS X is based on BSD (actually Darwin), so it's actually closer to *BSD than Linux. The Fink Project has made inroads in porting a large amount of Unix software to the Mac, however. They do the hard stuff for you. http://fink.sourceforge.net/As for VNC, yes there are plenty of free VNC programs. Chicken of the VNC is one client that I've used and actualy like it quite a bit.http://sourceforge.net/project...64347OSXvnc is the server I currently use. It too seems to work fairly well.Other than that, enjoy your Mini!

MoonDogg · Post by **MoonDogg** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:34 am

Quote, originally posted by Kari Â». RAM is the same as what you put in a PC, so you can definitely upgrade it to whatever you want. I've never in my life on any machine tried to upgrade video RAM, so I don't know about that part...They're very nice machines. If you can get to an Apple store and try one out, do. So what your saying is the 256mb ram that comes in the mini Mac is like not enough sence 32mb's go's to the video.. so If I were to say... be doing DVD editing and burning.. .I would prolly need more??? IF so no prob... I can do that...

MoonDogg · Post by **MoonDogg** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:36 am

Quote, originally posted by millster Â»As for VNC, yes there are plenty of free VNC programs. Chicken of the VNC is one client that I've used and actualy like it quite a bit.http://sourceforge.net/project...64347OSXvnc is the server I currently use. It too seems to work fairly well.Other than that, enjoy your Mini!Hey thats great.. the reason I need this.. is because I have a XP box at work. .and I remote into my XP box at home allot.. well if I get the Mac I want to still be able to do that... XP should be able to remote in to Mac via VNC right?

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:37 am

If you get an internal SuperDrive then it should run it fine, I would expect. I really don't know how the RAM thing works entirely, but my iBook has 256 and runs fine. And I don't have the processor speed of the lowest mini, either. I'm really not sure. You may want to ask someone at the Genius Bar in an Apple store.

MoonDogg · Post by **MoonDogg** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:39 am

BTW I wanted to say.. your guys are great thanks for the help... and here are some more ?'s ... how is the compatibilty with DVD burners and Mac? like could I put a DVD burner in my firewire external drive bay and it work on the Mac ? and firewire Hard drives they should work fine on the Mac too right?

millster · Post by **millster** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:40 am

The Mini doesn't share its RAM with the video card the video section is a dedicated Radeon 9200 chip with its own 32MB of SDRAM.However at that, I would say that if you're going to be into video work with the machine, 512MB would be recommended. If you don't mind voiding your warranty and having the pry the machine open with a putty knife, avoid Apple's overpriced memory. It's nothing special, just average old RAM.

MoonDogg · Post by **MoonDogg** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:40 am

Quote, originally posted by Kari Â»If you get an internal SuperDrive then it should run it fine, I would expect. I really don't know how the RAM thing works entirely, but my iBook has 256 and runs fine. And I don't have the processor speed of the lowest mini, either. I'm really not sure. You may want to ask someone at the Genius Bar in an Apple store.Sounds good but we don't have an apple store around here.. I think circut city sells mac though... or best buy .. . one of the two....

MoonDogg · Post by **MoonDogg** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:41 am

Quote, originally posted by millster Â»The Mini doesn't share its RAM with the video card the video section is a dedicated Radeon 9200 chip with its own 32MB of SDRAM.However at that, I would say that if you're going to be into video work with the machine, 512MB would be recommended. If you don't mind voiding your warranty and having the pry the machine open with a putty knife, avoid Apple's overpriced memory. It's nothing special, just average old RAM.So the same stuff that goes in PC's ? and why only 32mb... my radeon 7200 has 64mb.. and I was looking at getting 128 or even 256... with my next PC if I go that route...

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:41 am

Firewire accessories should work fine, yes. I would imagine they do support most external DVD burners, but you never know. I know there used to be a compatibility list for iTunes' external burner capabilities...wonder if there's something similar for the DVD burner realm?

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:42 am

Quote, originally posted by MoonDogg Â»Sounds good but we don't have an apple store around here.. I think circut city sells mac though... or best buy .. . one of the two.... Neither of the two, actually. LOL There is no store in which to buy a Mac within 6 hours of me, and we have both CC and Best Buy.

MoonDogg · Post by **MoonDogg** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:43 am

Quote, originally posted by Kari Â»Neither of the two, actually. LOL There is no store in which to buy a Mac within 6 hours of me, and we have both CC and Best Buy. I know I played with an I-Book and one of thouse places... I just don't remember when.. or where....

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:45 am

CompUSA sells Apple stuff, but all Best Buy and CC sell is iPods and accessories, I think. Best Buy sold Macs several years ago, but they haven't for a while.

millster · Post by **millster** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:46 am

Quote, originally posted by MoonDogg Â»So the same stuff that goes in PC's ? and why only 32mb... my radeon 7200 has 64mb.. and I was looking at getting 128 or even 256... with my next PC if I go that route...Gonna try to catch a few here. This thread is growing FAST!! Yes. It's the same stuff that goes in PC's (DDR PC2700 to be specific). As for the video, that has been a long standing question with Apple. They always short the RAM on the video boards. Somehow they still manage to function rather well.For the DVD burner question, there are some compatibility issues with some external burners and iDVD. I would recommend looking at the Apple site under iDVD to make sure the burner you want is compatible.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:47 am

CompUSA (or compoooosa as we use to say) SUCKS! Their selection is pretty solid, but their prices are OUTRAGEOUS!!!

MoonDogg · Post by **MoonDogg** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:47 am

Quote, originally posted by Kari Â»CompUSA sells Apple stuff, but all Best Buy and CC sell is iPods and accessories, I think. Best Buy sold Macs several years ago, but they haven't for a while.Well they must now... check it out... http://www.bestbuy.com/site/ol...y&cmp=

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:51 am

I'd be curious if it's going to be available in stores. That's interesting. Maybe they decided to pick the Mac market up again. I can't say I'd complain if they did!!

Luna · Post by **Luna** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:41 pm

The mini isn't available in Best Buy stores yet...says so right on the webpage. Doesn't look like it's available on bestbuy.com yet, either, just for pre-order.I got the iBook I'm typing on now and my tower from CompUSA. Their prices are the same as Apple's and just about every mac supplier I've seen, but I don't have to pay shipping when I buy a computer from CompUSA, so I'd rather get it there than "save" $20 buying online.Macs are very easy to learn and very intuitive. It seems like PC users learn Macs a lot faster than Mac users learn PCs. Some things just make so much more sense on a mac. Doing email and surfing the web is pretty basic and shouldn't a problem on either platform.I've looked at the mac mini's online and by the time I'd add the upgrades I'd want, I think I'd be better off getting another computer. It is pretty bare-bones, good if you have external stuff and have a mouse, keyboard, etc. already. If you are serious about video editing and stuff like that, you will probably be better served by a tower. It is a lot easier to expand and runs faster when you are using demanding applications. If you're not sure if you will like having a mac (but I bet you will!) or if money is too tight, then get a mini or an imac or something for now. But if you can afford it, get the computer you really need, and the one you'll wish you'd bought if you do a lot of visual, graphic, etc. applications on your mac.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:25 pm

I have a low-end mini with my name on it somewhere in the area on a fedex truck... Sometime over the next couple of days, I'll post a full review here: http://forums.genvibe.com/zero...age=5I can't wait to get it hooked up! And yes, VNC will work on many different platforms. It's a killer tool! I'll need it for when I get my mini. That's one thing I haven't downloaded yet. You should be able to connect to any VNC server with any VNC client, regardless of platform. I can even VNC into my Zaurus PDA that runs Linux. lol! Very useful tool for anyone who has multiple computers to deal with.

MoonDogg · Post by **MoonDogg** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:22 am

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic Â»I have a low-end mini with my name on it somewhere in the area on a fedex truck... Sometime over the next couple of days, I'll post a full review here: http://forums.genvibe.com/zero...age=5I can't wait to get it hooked up! And yes, VNC will work on many different platforms. It's a killer tool! I'll need it for when I get my mini. That's one thing I haven't downloaded yet. You should be able to connect to any VNC server with any VNC client, regardless of platform. I can even VNC into my Zaurus PDA that runs Linux. lol! Very useful tool for anyone who has multiple computers to deal with. Kewl.. I can't wait to here what you gotta say about it..

Luna · Post by **Luna** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:53 am

I noticed this weekend that Best Buy has a bunch of mac products available on their website. So you could probably have one shipped to your local store for pickup (free shipping to store, IIRC), if you don't have an apple reseller near you.Mini shipping shouldn't be too bad, but I paid about $45 to get my old CRT iMac shipped to me and have bought things locally since then.

MoonDogg · Post by **MoonDogg** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:03 pm

Well I am happy to say this is my first post from my first mac!!! its an old iMac 350 but hey i got it for $50!! I upgraded it too Mac OS 9.2.2 and plan for ram upgrades and Mac OS X soon!!! Its realy nice... much more than I was expecting...

millster · Post by **millster** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:06 pm

Nice! Certainly a good price. I still have my old iMac 333 and it's a fine machine. The 350s are surprising in what they can do. Congrats on the Mac purchase.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:02 pm

Woo hoo! Welcome to the club! You can do a lot more than you would think without having zillions of MHz and a gig of RAM inside that box. Which reminds me, no I haven't forgotten about the mini - in fact it became my main computer instantly. I'll post the official review later on this morning... Not sure how well OS X will run, but I say, go for it if it will handle it! It's the best OS I've ever used, hands down... (Yes, this comes from a guy who swore he'd use nothing but Linux from this point out. Hey, it's a unix variant, so I'm not that far off. (removed)!) Can't beat it, Apple's beautiful GUI on top of unix. The best of borh worlds. I had it running on a 400 MHz G4 with 256 MB of RAM here at work at one point in time, it did alright...Congrats on the purchase, $50 for any usable computer is a helluva deal! I'm sure you'll get quite a bit of bang for your buck out of that thing!

MoonDogg · Post by **MoonDogg** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:30 pm

Well I have read many reviews that says it runs fine as long as you got the ram to back it up.. .I am going to get a 512 chip and go from there... I'll let yall know...

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:37 am

Yes, the slower processor will be fine as long as you max out the RAM. I had a 500mhz iMac, and it was slow with the factory 128megs of RAM, but once I added 512 to it, it was just as quick as this iBook G4, which I replaced the iMac with, is.Welcome to the Mac club...hope you enjoy how easy it is to use and maintain!

MoonDogg · Post by **MoonDogg** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:51 am

Well.. I found me a 256mb chip.. and with the factory 64mb.. (320mb) installed Mac OS X 10.3.8 and .. man.. all I can say is... WOW... its awesome.. I am definatly buying anouther Mac.. don't know when.. but it will be a Mac.. I don't know Y everyone don't get one.. there so easy...

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:13 pm

Yes indeed, the Mac rocks! Congrats on the hardware and OS upgrades - well worth it, I'm sure! The Mac is just great... I really enjoy having a computer that just, um, works. Yes, more people should know about the beauty of these things.

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:38 pm

Quote, originally posted by MoonDogg Â»Well.. I found me a 256mb chip.. and with the factory 64mb.. (320mb) installed Mac OS X 10.3.8 and .. man.. all I can say is... WOW... its awesome.. I am definatly buying anouther Mac.. don't know when.. but it will be a Mac.. I don't know Y everyone don't get one.. there so easy... I don't know why everyone doesn't get one either...or why everyone won't at least give them a fair chance before writing them off. I'm glad you're enjoying your Mac...welcome to the wonderful world of having a computer that, as the Colonel said, just works. I used to have a love-hate relationship with my PC...I loved it but I hated always having to do things to it to keep it in working condition, and sometimes not even being able to do that. With the Mac, it's all love... You might want to get yourself an iBook or PowerBook for traveling as your next Mac purchase. Or else an iPod.

Keely · Post by **Keely** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:59 am

Althought you've heard it from others, I'll chip in with the following:1. I use Chicken of the VNC to connect to Windows desktops all the time - works very well. On the flipside, I can use RealVNC on a Windows desktop to connect to a Mac.2. MoonDogg, you're already using something running OS9something... just wait until you see OSX-Panther, or the to-be-released on the 29th OSX4 "Tiger" - sweet stuff. I've pre-ordered my Tiger licenses already.3. I'm also looking at buying a MacMini because... it's likely going in my Vibe. More on this later!

kostby · Post by **kostby** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:19 am

Quote, originally posted by Kari Â»I don't know why everyone doesn't get one either...or why everyone won't at least give them a fair chance before writing them off. Why? IMHO because it's STILL and probably always will be an intentionally and carefully-defined niche product.It will remain a niche product until an Apple-developed nuclear smart-bomb mystically obliterates all Intel- and AMD-architecture computers, software publishers, and support personnel in a blinding flash.Why won't it become more 'mainstream'? In short, because Apple doesn't want it to be!A History Lesson for the young (and young at heart who Can't Remember Stuff) (Insert sage advice about 'those who fail to learn from history being doomed to repeat it' here)It has nothing to do with 'goodness' or 'fairness', or 'user friendliness'.It's all about the computer business (BTW it's pronounced 'bid-ness' in Central Indiana). And the computer 'bid-ness' is about market share.And market share is all about how many units you can SELL at a profit.Profit is all about the ability to produce and distribute AND SELL units quickly and efficiently.More selling locations = more units sold, at least in theory.Apple just doesn't have the market share."Why doesn't it have the market share?", you ask.Apple had nearly a 75% market share in 'business' in the early days of the Apple //. Dan Bricklin's VisiCalc spreadsheet took the business world by storm. Businesses were going around the (IBM mainframe architecture-Cobol programming) 'Data Processing' Departments to buy 16K RAM (Yes 16K!), dual drive 160K (Yes 160K!) 5.25" single-sided diskette, green-screen CRT Apple //'s by the boatload at $3500.00 each JUST TO RUN VisiCalc under CP/M emulation. (When was the last time you heard of Dan Bricklin, VisiCalc, OR CP/M?)The 6502 chip instruction set was exceedingly simple. AppleBasic was pretty easy to grasp, so almost anyone could write a BASIC program. The Apple // became a standard among schools everywhere! The more adventurous could easily use the built-in editor to delve into 'machine language' for fast subroutines to create a compact, useful application program. The expansion architecture (cards and slots) was amazingly simple and open, so virtually anyone could develop a compatible peripheral and sell it, lining their own pockets instead of Apple's.In an effort to become MORE profitable and cut the legs out from under the booming 'Apple-compatible' market for peripherals and accessories, Apple management made deliberate, conscious design decision years and years ago (pre-1984!) to develop a graphical user interface (heavily ahem, borrowed from a Xerox PARC project) with a closed Macintosh architecture based on the Motorola 68xxx chip (when was the last time you heard of one of THOSE?), a virtually closed operating system, and per-unit hardware, software, and peripherals priced at nearly double the emerging IBM-PC rate.By contrast, IBM chose to go the 'open architecture' route with Intel-based architecture, the relatively 'open' MicroSoft-Disk Operating System operating system. With a more powerful chip than the Apple //, the IBM PCompatible market absolutely went white-hot, this time WITH the blessing of 'Data Processing' departments, since the same IBM salesman who sold them mainframes could now supply their growing PC needs as well.Just as with Apple, the expansion architecture for the IBM-PC (cards and slots) was amazingly simple and open, so virtually anyone could develop a compatible peripheral and sell it, lining their own pockets instead of IBM's.In 1987, IBM tried to recapture the genie in the bottle, and close the IBM-PC architecture and operating system market somewhat. The IBM PS/2's debuted along with OS/2. (You younger folks ever wonder where terms like 'VGA-resolution' came from?). The PCompatible genie was PERMANENTLY out of the bottle though, and PCompatible manufacturers sucessfully overcame the challenge from IBM over the years.Which brings us to today...21 years later, with the Mac-mini, Apple is once again in a position to gain market share, now that the price-wars have decimated the PCompatible ranks down to the Big 3: HP, Dell, and 'Everyone Else'. Apple pricing is somewhat better, IF you can run your Macintosh OS-X app on the low-end machine without more memory, and IF you don't automatically buy all your peripherals and accessories from Apple. Still, Mac is not going to become much more mainstream when only a few 'Mac specialty' stores and internet boutiques handle Mac upgrades, software, and peripherals.Which IMHO is just what Apple wanted, all along.WHEW!

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:35 am

Um, thank you for enlightening us... Now we know... and knowing is half the battle.... lol!

Keely · Post by **Keely** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:09 am

Quote, originally posted by kostby Â»Why? IMHO because it's STILL and probably always will be an intentionally and carefully-defined niche product....which is a pretty separate issue from whether Mac sucks, as the author of the online article stated. Niche product does not equal bane of the computer world.So, the exposition on the history of Mac and Wintel hardware was fascinating, but doesn't address that yokel's argument. Or Kari's statement, which I took to mean "just because it's niche doesn't mean it's bad". You just reinforced that it is in fact niche.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:36 am

Thank you for that much needed information...

kostby · Post by **kostby** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:41 pm

Quote, originally posted by Keely Â»...which is a pretty separate issue from whether Mac sucks, as the author of the online article stated.I certainly didn't mean to suggest that 'the Mac sucked'. I'm sorry if you got that impression. It's pretty late/early, but for the life of me, Keely, I can't find any 'yokel' in THIS entire thread who suggested that 'the Mac sucks'. Anyway, Desertdweller posted the funny pics AFTER your post. LOL! I re-read the thread three times, just to be sure.I just wanted to give some historical perspective to the ancient Mac vs IBM-PCompatible rivalry, so that younger users (like Kari) might understand WHY the Mac IS a (very successful AND profitable) niche product and will probably remain one.

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:37 am

Quote, originally posted by kostby Â»I just wanted to give some historical perspective to the ancient Mac vs IBM-PCompatible rivalry, so that younger users (like Kari) might understand WHY the Mac IS a (very successful AND profitable) niche product and will probably remain one.As Keely said, I wasn't trying to suggest that Macs will take over the world... (It would be cool but I know it won't happen...haha.) All I said was that I wished more people would at least give them a chance before writing them off as bad or useless. That still doesn't mean they have to buy one...LOL. Too many people who haven't ever really used a Mac just say, "They suck." I know, because I used to be one of them. Then I finally gave it a chance. Now I'll never own anything else. Sure, there will be others of my type who hate them, then use it and fall in love and buy one, but I know the vast majority won't. I'd just be happy if they could at least respect my computer and recognize that just because the Mac has a small market share doesn't mean it's a bad product.

Keely · Post by **Keely** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:18 am

Quote, originally posted by kostby Â»I certainly didn't mean to suggest that 'the Mac sucked'. I'm sorry if you got that impression. It's pretty late/early, but for the life of me, Keely, I can't find any 'yokel' in THIS entire thread who suggested that 'the Mac sucks'. Anyway, Desertdweller posted the funny pics AFTER your post. LOL! I re-read the thread three times, just to be sure.I just wanted to give some historical perspective to the ancient Mac vs IBM-PCompatible rivalry, so that younger users (like Kari) might understand WHY the Mac IS a (very successful AND profitable) niche product and will probably remain one.Oh shoot, my bad. Sorry, there's another thread going on about a guy that wrote an article in a campus magazine, I got completely messed up. Humble apologies, and your post makes more sense now that I've got the context right.Mulligan!

MoonDogg · Post by **MoonDogg** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:14 am

Wow I can't belive I started all this.. oh well I am enjoying my Mac and thanks to everyone that helped..

MoonDogg · Post by **MoonDogg** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:48 pm

Check out my new iMac desktop I finaly got the capture screen shortcut to work

Attached files

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:52 pm

There's a capture screen shortcut? LOL What is it? I've just been using Grab to take screenshots, but they're always tif files and they're huge, and have to be converted in a different program.Looks nice though. How is it running with Panther on it?

MoonDogg · Post by **MoonDogg** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:50 am

Quote, originally posted by Kari Â»There's a capture screen shortcut? LOL What is it? I've just been using Grab to take screenshots, but they're always tif files and they're huge, and have to be converted in a different program.Looks nice though. How is it running with Panther on it?yeah the short cut by default is command up arrow 3 ... I changed it to command 5 cause the other would not work... Its nice with panther... I just put more ram in it also... so its a little faster..