Nav System Owners - I need your help!

[esjones]

I am MAD, and would like to know if I'm alone or not.I have the DVD Navigation system in my Vibe, which includes a full-featured FM radio with RDS display capabilities. The RDS system allows stations to encode a data stream which contains information about the station's nickname, e.g., Q-102, The Edge, Z-Rock, etc., the type of programming offered by the station, and even text information that might include weather information, current song title, or other short text messages.The "nickname" data is called the PS (program service) field, and it's what the nav system radio displays at the left end of the station display, to the left of the station's freqency.The longer text area is in the main body of the screen. In RDS lingo, this area displays "Radiotext" data.The radio also has a neat feature where it copies the PS data into the station preset button label on the screen when you hold the button down to program that button to a particular station.Now the problem... many stations want to display song titles, even advertising messages on RDS radio. But they know that many RDS radios don't have a "radiotext" display area like the Vibe's navigation radio. So.... they have taken the PS field, which is supposed to be used for station identification, and started scrolling song data and station promotional slogans into that little 8-character field. The problem for the Vibe radio is that there is no longer a static station ID field to copy to a tuning button label. If the last song played was "One of These Nights," by Eagles, you might have your button label say "These." Not very useful, eh?An additional issue is that scrolling data in a small display field creates a driver distraction. After all, it takes several times of turning your attention from the road to read a song title or other information that is presented only eight characters at a time. This "scrolling PS" as it is known, has been banned in Europe, and I believe it should be banned here as well.Have you nav system owners noticed this with the stations in your area? Are you annoyed and angered like I am that a feature of your radio (descriptive button labels) has been stolen from you by stupid station programmers?Will you help me TAKE ACTION by writing to the local station managers, the FCC and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, asking them to stop the "scrolling PS" immediately and return to using the RDS system the way it was intended?

[Jahntassa]

Um...sure... But to be honest, I use XM. Most of the stations around Atlanta use solid displays..with the exception of one, I think...

[ALi3N]

Unfortunatly that is a shortcoming in the firmware of the unit. both of the nav head units i have had do that. There is no fix for it other than disabling the RDS feature altogether. The scrolling is a function of the radio, the station just transmits the data and the radio interprets it and scrolls it underneath the FM position. If it helps, you can play with the RDS settings and get it to show the PS data in its own box underneath the radio station data.

[Jahntassa]

Hm...the data just shows up in a box underneath the station info on mine.. I guess I just had it set up that way from the get-go..

[esjones]

Quote, originally posted by ALi3N »Unfortunatly that is a shortcoming in the firmware of the unit. both of the nav head units i have had do that. There is no fix for it other than disabling the RDS feature altogether. The scrolling is a function of the radio, the station just transmits the data and the radio interprets it and scrolls it underneath the FM position. If it helps, you can play with the RDS settings and get it to show the PS data in its own box underneath the radio station data.I need to clarify. There are TWO data fields in question here, the PS field, which is eight characters in size, and the Radiotext field, which is several lines in length. The PS field is NOT SUPPOSED TO CHANGE. If it does, it is the radio station doing it, and NOT a firmware problem in the radio. If you see the same data in the PS field (left end of the bar where the station frequency is displayed) AND in the box below that, it just means that the station is feeding changing data into both fields. In other words, the station is messing up your radio, and it is NOT the radio's fault.

[ALi3N]

Well, i draw my conclusion based on the fact that no other RDS stereo i have ever seen scrolls anything automatically.

[esjones]

I just talked to an RDS radio engineer at Delphi, and he is pretty steamed too about how the broadcasters have hijacked the PS station description field to run song title info into it.Some stations have even said they will sell advertising in that field!It's not a national issue, by any means, but Ralph Nader has issued a statement against the practice of changing data in the PS field, as being a hazard to drivers due to the distraction factor.

[PieBoy]

I use RDS in the Toronto area and I haven't noticed this problem. My biggest complaint is that there are not nearly enough stations broadcasting in RDS, especially as you move away from the Toronto area.Personally, I love the system. I'm not sure that having a Canadian sign your petition will help your cause, but if it assists you and keeps Canadian stations from doing the same thing, I'll sign away!

[esjones]

The Canadian government agency that regulates radio broadcasting is probably smarter than our FCC and prohibits the broadcasters from violating the standard for the system.

[jcniii]

The same thing happens on my 2004 Vibe. There is a station here in Atlanta that is changing its call letters so now the button changes to Test and --- and other things. This however is not near as bothersome as the alternator noise through the CD changer or the fact that a CD with a song on it that is longer than 10 minutes pauses at 9:59 until you manually hop it across to 10:01...The dealer has looked at the Alternator noise and installed a kit on the NAV but not the changer...no effect. Have you experienced any of these issues and do you know how to buy an updated DVD NAV? Do love this car however...and my BMW 3 series with RDS has the same problem with stuff rolling across instead of steady call letters.

[hwm187]

dude.....the Eagles??!!???!!..........seriously, man. There's your problem.

[esjones]

Quote, originally posted by jcniii »The same thing happens on my 2004 Vibe. There is a station here in Atlanta that is changing its call letters so now the button changes to Test and --- and other things. This however is not near as bothersome as the alternator noise through the CD changer or the fact that a CD with a song on it that is longer than 10 minutes pauses at 9:59 until you manually hop it across to 10:01....Do you have the same problem with long songs when playing your CD in the nav unit itself, or only in the changer? I'll try a long song in my car today (it's an 03) and report back. I know that my Intrigue will stop counting the time on a track at 9:59, but it doesn't pause the audio.

[esjones]

Quote, originally posted by hwm187 »dude.....the Eagles??!!???!!..........seriously, man. There's your problem.Hey, I'm OLD... give me a break.

[jcniii]

Have not tried in dash player but will...not that big a deal and not worth Pontiac replacing the whole thing at this point.

[NJ_Indy]

I know exactly what you are talking about. I see the same problem here in Indianapolis. I've seen at least 3 stations here that use the station call letters field (the 8-character one) to scroll the song info. It seems to only get copied over to the button label when you shut the engine off. That is, a random 8-letter piece of the song that's playing when I shut off the engine is the label for that channel the next time I start the car up (and for that entire trip, until the next power-off). I called one of the stations the first time I saw them using the RDS "wrong" like this. At first they weren't even using the "Radiotext" (longer text) field at all, except for a static 2-line station ad (such as, "Listen to Bob and Tom in the morning on Q95...."). Now they use both the 8-character field and the longer text field to display song title info. I couldn't get to talk to anyone useful at the station who even understood the problem. I've given up now and just memorized what those presets are ('cause they rarely read correctly on the button).

[brian_r_baker]

Is there any "official" info online about this problem? One of the stations I listen to started doing this and I wanted to point them to something (like the RDS spec) that says they should not be doing this. They probably wouldn't believe me if I just told them that's the way it is, especially since all the other stations in town do it the same way.

[esjones]

See pages 6 and 7 of http://www.nrscstandards.org/RBDS/rbdsrds.pdf which states, “The Program Service name comprises eight characters. It is the primary aid to listeners in program service identification and selection. The Program Service name is to be used only to identify the station or station program. This text may be changed as required by the station, but shall not be scrolled or flashed or altered in a manner that would be disturbing or distracting to the viewer (i.e. not more frequently than once per minute).” That is the standard. Your local station will say they are only doing what "headquarters" tells them to do. "Headquarters" will say that it is only a voluntary standard, and changing the PS field is not against FCC rules.To get this changed will require action of the FCC, so we need to write to them, and also to organizations like Consumers Union that can put pressure and bring the spotlight of publicity to this safety hazard.