Possibly ordering a Vibe this weekend... (advice please)

[NY Pete]

Looking at ordering a Frosty base Vibe, 5 speed, power package, monochromatic paint option...question is... ABS or no? Anybody's opinion?Thanks!

[SCTM]

Recommanded WELCOME into the great Vibe-family (and genvibe)

[slbpsi63]

I have the regular brakes, they are great, but extra safty never hurts. I think the regular brakes stops the vibe from 60-0 in less than 123 feet. Not sure though.

[NY Pete]

that's the thing. Every one I see tested in the magazines always has the ABS option. $500 is pretty steep to get something that comes standard on just about every other car sold in the US! It comes standard on the GT, but the motor in the GT doesn't seem like it'll be bullet-proof reliable in the long term (high compression, composite cylinder lining, timing belts instead of chains, etc)...

[slbpsi63]

If you want order the AEM or TRD Big Brake Kit. Their cheaper than $500 and probably better than the ABS from what I've heard. They both are priiced under $400. Let me know if you like that idea. The AEM brakes are listed on the nopi web site. The TRD is listed on the TRD webpage.

[DopeVibeGT]

Anti-lock brakes are nice, but they should be standard on ALL models. I myself would get them, 'specially if you live in a snow bound area.I was wondering if my GT had ABS. I had to hit the brakes hard one time for a sec, and they seemed to lock up. But, the ABS light does come on when I first turn the car on.

[NY Pete]

Really? What does it consist of? Just slotted rotors/new pads? or calipers?

[slbpsi63]

Nopi has a pic of the whole kit do a search under General motors - Vibe- All itmes. You'll see everything they have available. The way it looks its the whole braking system. The price is ~$394.

[camthecanuck]

I waited until I could get the ABS. Gave a number of other Vibes a miss while I waited. I have always been a great believer in ABS. L'm sure you will enjoy whichever you choose.

[Frosty]

Old Frosty pulls out the soap box and hops on. ABS is the single best active safety feature you can invest in. I have had it on my cars since 89, wouldn't be without it. You will be able to maintain your steering control while under hard braking. Imagine dodging a deer on an icy road, then another deer appears just when you think you have a route selected. You will be able to make course corrections while under hard braking. While under everyday conditions you will know your road conditions while you hear your ABS activated. Every serious sports car has ABS. The Viper did without for years. Now it has it and has even better stopping power. If it is not standard on the car you are considering, option it in. If it is not available on the car you are considering, keep looking. I did not get the Matrix XR because it was not available with FWD, a 5 speed and ABS, my combo for fun. close soapbox

[NY Pete]

Welp, I ordered it on Saturday, and I DID opt for ABS. Now I just have to sit tight and wait for it to arrive. What kind of wait is everybody experiencing? 6-8 weeks?BTW, thanks all for the opinions/advice!

[Mr. Poopypants]

I was lucky, since I wasn't picky, I took my Vibe out of dealer stock and had it the same day. The only thing I would have bought different was the color, I really like Envy. I have a Lava, the same color as my last 2 cars.

[Mr. Poopypants]

Oh yeah, welcome to the family.

[camthecanuck]

Bought mine off a lot. If you check postings elsewhere on these forums you may find that you might like to twist your dealer's arm to get one that is already built. Don't know about the U.S. though. In any case, enjoy the car. I am certainly enjoying ours.

[Frosty]

quote:Welp, I ordered it on Saturday, and I DID opt for ABS. Now I just have to sit tight and wait for it to arrive. What kind of wait is everybody experiencing? 6-8 weeks?BTW, thanks all for the opinions/advice!Excellent! You are more than welcome.6-8 weeks would be about right for a U.S. car as below.http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=692 If you lived a few miles north you would wait long, very long....http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=309

[d_m_kolb]

Not to get off topic but both the 1ZZ and 2ZZ have timing chains.Get the ABS. $500 is worth it if it saves your life or someone elses.

[NY Pete]

quote:Not to get off topic but both the 1ZZ and 2ZZ have timing chains.I'm sorry. Looks like I quoted a bad source. You're correct.

[esjones]

Definitely YES on the ABS. I'll never buy a car without it again..- ESJJust got my Vibe last Friday, and want to wait until after my break-in period to try out the ABS.

[Stang2Vibe]

Some people actually prefer NOT having the ABS. I didn't like it until the past few years when ABS systems got much better. I have the GT, so I have it. I like it on my Vibe, but if the dealer had the car I wanted and I could get a good deal on it, but it didn't have ABS, it definately wouldn't prevent me from buying the car. I think having the ABS on a car in locations that have wintry conditions contributes to the resale value of the car in the future, so I would generally opt for it.When my sister ordered her 03 Corolla S, she ordered it with ABS and a moonroof. 6 weeks later, the dealer called and said that her car was about to be shipped and she could expect it within a week. She went over the order invoice with the dealer again to make sure everything was correct. When they looked at the build codes on the computer, it turned out that it was built WITHOUT the ABS and moonroof. She was very upset to say the least. The salesman said that he wanted to double check and would call her back. He called back shortly thereafter and confirmed that the car was built wrong. Since the car was not built as per the contract she signed, she was no longer obligated to take the car. They offered to give her double her money back for the lack of ABS option (it could not be retrofitted, it had to be built with it at the factory because too many parts are different) and offered installation at no extra charge of a moonroof from a local custom conversion shop that would carry the same warranty as if it came from the factory with it. She thought about it and took the car anyway because she had already got a good deal on it, now it just got even better. Seems that no dealer in 9 nearby states had a Corolla S with ABS. I asked why it was so difficult to get one with the ABS and why it wasn't standard. I was told that the Corolla and Camry in recent years had standard ABS on them and too many people were complaining about it because they didn't want it, so it became an option again and relatively few cars would be built with it without ordering it. The cars that came with the ABS were to be built primarily at the end of the production run with all the totally custom orders, so there would be a wait of about 6-7 months to order one that was guaranteed to have it. Usually when the ABS debate comes up in conversation, it is met with great resistance from the over-60 crowd who are generally content with everything being the same as it has been for the past 400 years and don't know what to do when faced with change. Bring up the ABS debate with older folks and within 5 minutes they will be trying to convince you that ABS is the sole root cause of every evil ranging from global nuclear war to herpes. I guess the Geritol crowd and the AARP won the battle, so now we are forced to pay extra and go through the headache of having to special order new cars to get ABS, particularly on base models.

[Frosty]

quote:Some people actually prefer NOT having the ABS.........too many people were complaining about it because they didn't want it, so it became an option again and relatively few cars would be built with it without ordering it. .......Ridiculous! Hello people it is the most basic active safety feature. You may not need your airbags if you can steer your sliding car around the obstruction. Let's get with it.... AUTOMAKERS Put ABS on all your cars. For those ludites who want to opt out, make them sign a waiver, give them a $500 credit and make them wait until the end of the production run for their ABS-less car. INSURANCE COMPANIES Give ABS equipped machines a $50/year credit. You won't hear from drivers with ABS as often.

[NovaResource]

ABS isn't perfect. Ever drive down a gravel road that goes down hill? My grandparents used to have a long driveway that went down hill and the ABS system would prevent you from slowing down. The brakes would release and cause you to go faster than you wanted unless you used the e-brake. Not fun.

[Sub-Vibe-R]

I don't have ABS and I didn't want it. I had it on ma Cavalier and my Montana. On ma Cav, the system had some trouble, the ABS system released brake without reason. It was in the middle of summer, the road was clean and dry, I press the brake pedal to stop at a red light and the brake pedal starts shaking. I disabled the ABS by disconnecting wiring on the master cylinder and no more problem since. Also, it is proven that reguar brake stop on a shorter distance then ABS. All depend of the driver.

[Sub-Vibe-R]

quote: INSURANCE COMPANIES Give ABS equipped machines a $50/year credit. You won't hear from drivers with ABS as often.My insurance cie does not give any credit for ABS. I called most of the insurance cie and no one asked me if the car has ABS. The only place where I saw this, is when I asked a quote on the GM web site.

[Frosty]

quote:ABS isn't perfect........The brakes would release and cause you to go faster than you wanted unless you used the e-brake. Not fun.Strange. Never experienced anything like that on my Hondas or Acuras. Stopping distances can be longer in gravel and deep snow, something to be compensated for with reduced speed anyway.Trucks with rear ABS are diabolical. Try backing down a icy hill with rear only ABS!! That is a heart stopper. The new Landrovers and Toyotas (maybe others?) have that new hill descent system that holds your speed to 5 mph. That would be cool to play with.

[NovaResource]

quote:Stopping distances can be longer in gravel and deep snow, something to be compensated for with reduced speed anyway.Reduced speed doesn't work when going down a hill on gravel with your foot off the gas and hard on the brake. The ABS just cuts of the brakes and you go down faster and faster as gravity takes you unless you use the e-brake.

[Frosty]

Sorry Scott, never had that happen to me. If we ever get some snow here (My sig pic was taken 4 hours from here) I will be sure to test the Vibe's ABS on a Port Arthur hill or two.

[Cubanpete]

Scott.....what do you mean by the "E-brake"?..are you refering to the handbrake? Also when going downhill with ABS, I like frosty never had the problem that the brakes dont slow the car down, that to me does not sound right, and doesnt make sence, I had abs on my stang which I had for 9-10 years, I never had problems like what you are saying, It would take a longer distance to stop the car thats for sure

[Stang2Vibe]

Cubanpete--E-brake is short for emergency brake (or the handbrake as you call it)Sub-Vibe-R---You should have pulled the wheels off and sprayed the ABS sensors with some brake cleaner. Most likely there was a build-up of some brake dust/dirt on the sensors causing them not to monitor the wheel rotation properly (falsely sensing lockup while the car is moving). Either that, or a sensor went bad, which can be costly to replace.You are all bringing up some good points on the con side of the ABS debate. They require more parts, electronics, computers, etc. that are usually very expensive to replace (my '89 6000 STE had constant ABS problems even after replacing all 4 sensors at almost $750 each! The GM first generation ABS sucked notoriously). Like I said before, I haven't liked ABS on cars until about the late '90's when they generally got much better and the parts are now much cheaper to replace.And my insurance company DOES offer ABS discounts. I'm not sure how much it is, though. I am hearing that insurance companies are considering dropping the ABS discount (if they haven't already) because they are claiming that there is no evidence that having ABS is lowering the number of accidents out on the road. I think that they just don't want to give the discount because there are so many cars out on the road with it (probably many of them disabled due to problems on older cars like stated above). And there are those who can't seem to learn how to use them (particularly the older crowd again), they feel the brake pedal pulsating, panic, let up on the brakes and end up slamming into something instead of holding the pedal down. I just don't get what's with some people these days.

[NovaResource]

quote:Also when going downhill with ABS, I like frosty never had the problem that the brakes dont slow the car down, that to me does not sound right, and doesnt make senceThe key phrase in my original post was: "a gravel road". ABS is fine on a paved road but on gravel it's very easy to lock the brakes with the car still moving. However, locking the brakes on gravel is the quickest way to stop because the car digs in. ABS senses the wheels lock but that the car is still moving so it releases the brakes. This is not good.

[Sub-Vibe-R]

quote:Sub-Vibe-R---You should have pulled the wheels off and sprayed the ABS sensors with some brake cleaner. Most likely there was a build-up of some brake dust/dirt on the sensors causing them not to monitor the wheel rotation properly (falsely sensing lockup while the car is moving). Either that, or a sensor went bad, which can be costly to replace.I didn't want to invest too much on a '92 Cav. As you said, ABS part can be very expensive. So that's why I just disabled the ABS system by unplugging cumputer form the master cylinder. Also, I removed the ABS cluster in the dash, I was bothering me.

[Stang2Vibe]

I understand, but a can of brake cleaner from the parts store and a little time and you might have been back up and running on the ABS. Investing $4 and about half an hour could have solved the problem, or at least told you that there was a bigger problem, then you could just disconnect. ABS malfunctions are fairly common on our fleet of work trucks where I work. Usually one of our mechanics just pulls the wheels and sprays the sensors and problem solved for a year or two. I'm not trying to argue with you, just a suggestion.

[NY Pete]

quote:The key phrase in my original post was: "a gravel road". ABS is fine on a paved road but on gravel it's very easy to lock the brakes with the car still moving. I drive on a gravel road only about 0.01% of the time... not a major consideration for me.

[Sub-Vibe-R]

quote:I understand, but a can of brake cleaner from the parts store and a little time and you might have been back up and running on the ABS. Investing $4 and about half an hour could have solved the problem, or at least told you that there was a bigger problem, then you could just disconnect. ABS malfunctions are fairly common on our fleet of work trucks where I work. Usually one of our mechanics just pulls the wheels and sprays the sensors and problem solved for a year or two. I'm not trying to argue with you, just a suggestion.I understant your point. I just didn't think about crap on the sensor. I went to the easiest way, disconenct all. If I get ABS problem in the future, I'll try cleaning sensor first. It is more logical to do this then totally disconnect the system.