Remote starter question

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by tothebone »I also noticed that when the starter was running, the vents didnt blow, no climate control. My climate control only works depending on how the dials are set when I leave the car. What I normally do is set the fan to high, mode to defrost/floor, and temp to hottest, so when I RS the car, it's all toasty when I get out to it.But it doesn't kick in the HVAC system automatically. Would be rather hard to program, quite frankly, because I could technically hook up the 2nd output to the fan, but it wouldn't engage the A/C in the summer, so what good would it do. Y'know?Quote, originally posted by HamiltonAudio »I'm a little confused. You guys are saying that just by "programming" a feature in your particular brand of remote start, that driver door priority unluck will work?Without going through some serious installation changes, or using a specific dataline-module that supports priority door unlock, this is impossible. Driver door priority unlock is possible on ANY vehicle given the right parts and labour. It just seems like its "too easy" here. I can't remember the last vibe I did, but in looking through my resources, I don't see any dataline modules for this vehicle or the Matrix. None of the GMDL products show compatibilty either. I've scoured all my reference material for this car as well, and the only reference is to the factory security arming with lock, and disarming with unlock. Nothing about one/two pulse for OEM priority door....I'm interested to learn something here..... unfortunately I don't think its as easy as this...bmoneyI'm pretty damn sure I know what I've done with my module and what it can do.I installed it myself, and programmed the options myself. IT IS as simple as that.You program the 369D to either pulse once when you press the unlock key, or twice.There are two potential sequences. Each of these represents what happen each time you press the lock/unlock key.Default:LOCKUNLOCK DRIVERUNLOCK PASSENGERSOptional:LOCKUNLOCK ALLLOCKI dunno what the hell "priority door unlock" means, but he wants his to open all doors with one press of the unlock/lock button, which the module CAN be programmed to do.I certainly hope you aren't coming on here just for the sole purpose of telling us all we don't know what we're doing or what we're talking about.

[tothebone]

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »My climate control only works depending on how the dials are set when I leave the car. What I normally do is set the fan to high, mode to defrost/floor, and temp to hottest, so when I RS the car, it's all toasty when I get out to it.But it doesn't kick in the HVAC system automatically. Would be rather hard to program, quite frankly, because I could technically hook up the 2nd output to the fan, but it wouldn't engage the A/C in the summer, so what good would it do. Y'know?Thats what I orginally did. But I noticed that after the RS started the car. I would get in and the fans would only blow, AFTER I switched on the ignition. According to the troubleshooting in the manual, it was hooked up wrong. They fixed it and all is well. It seems that even though this shop is reputable, mine was probably the first vibe through the door.Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »I'm pretty damn sure I know what I've done with my module and what it can do.I installed it myself, and programmed the options myself. IT IS as simple as that.You program the 369D to either pulse once when you press the unlock key, or twice.There are two potential sequences. Each of these represents what happen each time you press the lock/unlock key.Default:LOCKUNLOCK DRIVERUNLOCK PASSENGERSOptional:LOCKUNLOCK ALLLOCKI dunno what the hell "priority door unlock" means, but he wants his to open all doors with one press of the unlock/lock button, which the module CAN be programmed to do.I certainly hope you aren't coming on here just for the sole purpose of telling us all we don't know what we're doing or what we're talking about.YOU TELL 'EM!

[HamiltonAudio]

raging fish - read the last part of the post - I wanted to learn something about the vibe! Man...I realize you can program your unit to pulse just about anything you want. This is true of most. What I'm saying is, connecting to the factory doorlocks via the trigger wires (which as stated previous unlocks/disarms and locks/arms) will only ever unlock or lock all doors. no matter how many times you pulse the wires or how you've got your remote start programmed.the piece i'm lookin for is to know otherwise - I deal in the 1000+ unit a season range, and have yet to see a vehicles factory priority door (one push of unlock hits just the driver door, two pushes hits all doors) actually function without having to intervene mechanically (quad relays, open the driver circuit, etc). So you're saying on a vibe, if you pusle the factory lock wires once, only the driver door opens, and if you double-pulse, all doors open?THATS the piece I wanted to "learn". Re-read my post before you get on me.bmoney

[HamiltonAudio]

Quote, originally posted by tothebone »Thats what I orginally did. But I noticed that after the RS started the car. I would get in and the fans would only blow, AFTER I switched on the ignition. According to the troubleshooting in the manual, it was hooked up wrong. They fixed it and all is well. It seems that even though this shop is reputable, mine was probably the first vibe through the door.Excellent....i'm sure it wasn't the first Toyota through the door tho....its actually quite surprising the stark similarities in wiring from one family to another. The ignition wires on your Vibe are very much the same as many Toyota vehicles of the same vintage - which is why I wondered how they missed the hvac not working under remote start. The good news is its fixed....In reference to the "you tell em" piece....I'm hoping you'll re-read my original post. The very last line. In fact - I'll quote it here:"I'm intersting to learn something here". I just don't want the confusion of how to program a unit and how it reacts with a particular vehicle to play into it.Bottom line - using ONLY the factory doorlock wires (which are green and blue/black or blue/yellow in the driver or passenger kick according to my references) that pulsing a single unlock pulse will open only the driver door, and a double pulse will unlock all doors? Thats what I'm wondering and looking to learn, cause I've never seen any vehicle interface that way, and would like to offer that function to customers if is a "no cost" tweak to programming, you know?Sorry if I came out the wrong way guys....I just asked a simple question, with an assumption of "i don't think its that easy" after it. thoughts?bmoney

[Jahntassa]

Quote, originally posted by HamiltonAudio »I'm a little confused. You guys are saying that just by "programming" a feature in your particular brand of remote start, that driver door priority unluck will work?It just seems like its "too easy" here. I can't remember the last vibe I did, but in looking through my resources, I don't see any dataline modules for this vehicle or the Matrix. None of the GMDL products show compatibilty either. I've scoured all my reference material for this car as well, and the only reference is to the factory security arming with lock, and disarming with unlock. Nothing about one/two pulse for OEM priority door....I'm interested to learn something here..... unfortunately I don't think its as easy as this...Alright. Here's how it works. The Vibe with the Power Package (ie Power door locks, windows, mirrors, etc), has a factory installed keyless entry module, which, upon hitting the unlock button, will unlock the driver door, and then unlock the rest of the doors by hitting unlock again. This is by default. It's a simple Negative Trigger door lock setup.The DEI alarms, both Rattler and Viper, as well as Audiovox and Alpine alarms, all have options where you can set the unlock of the alarm to either single or double pulse. The test I had tothebone do says that the guys that installed his remote start set it to 'double pulse', meaning the alarm brain AUTOMATICALLY pulses the unlock wire twice. If he wants to have the car unlock driver, then all, all he needs to do is set the RS to single pulse, and if he hits the unlock twice within 2-3 seconds, the doors will unlock driver first, then all.And also, the Matrix and Vibe in 03-04 (not sure about 05) do NOT use the GMLR or any other Databus interface for the doorlocks. It's standard negative pulse. And if he had the factory security system, it arms and disarms with the doorlocks. Which is the same way many newer Toyotas work, which makes sense, as the majority of the wiring systems in the 03-04 Vibe is Toyota in general.Quote, originally posted by HamiltonAudio »also wondering about this one - there are serious liability issues for installing a product not SOLEY INTENDED for installation on a manual transmission car. There are safeguards built in to ensure you are in neutral before leaving the vehicle, and a "programming sequence" in order to make it work. If the doors are opened, park brake touched, etc, the programming is deleted and the car won't start.just "make sure its in neutral" is not only dangerous as hell, but stupid. A lawsuit waiting to happen by the person injured or killed by a leaping Vibe as it cranks in gear....I, sir, am a professional installer. As such, I can install a remote start on my own vehicle with no threat of suing myself. And on a DEI remote start, there is only one safeguard. The Neutral Safety wire. This wire needs to be grounded in order for the RS to work. In my case, it goes thorugh a switch that lets me disable it when I park in gear. In an automatic, it is generally bypassed, as the car's computer will NOT let the vehicle start with the car NOT in park.I installed a remote start in my own 6-speed vehicle. And I -will- do it for someone else, with appropriate contract stating that they will not sue me. Not that i've done this yet, as I won't just do it for any random person on the street.Quote, originally posted by HamiltonAudio »also seriously wondering about this one. sorry guys!!!! as I read thru this thread I get more and more worried How did a professional shop NOT have the hvac working under remote start? this is not something to be "fixed" but rather get beaten up for. Same goes for the pinswitch. If it wasn't working, it should have been noticed during the overall-test the shop SHOULD have done, and never gone out the door like that....For once, I will agree with you. They obviously did not correctly wire the remote start in tothebone's vehicle. They failed in both checking the two ignition wires, and also testing the pin-switch.Just as a general reminder, I have installed quite a few remote starts. My first was on my own vehicle, so I can be fairly confident I know what i'm talking about. I will say that I only have definite knowledge on 03-04, and NOT on the 05's. Not only have I successfully installed my RS on my own Vibe, but i've also written directions so that Mike installed his RS on his own Vibe, using a Do-It-Yourself version from DEI known as the Rattler 369D. He installed it on his 03 Base Automatic.

[HamiltonAudio]

Quote, originally posted by Jahntassa »Alright. Here's how it works. The Vibe with the Power Package (ie Power door locks, windows, mirrors, etc), has a factory installed keyless entry module, which, upon hitting the unlock button, will unlock the driver door, and then unlock the rest of the doors by hitting unlock again. This is by default. It's a simple Negative Trigger door lock setup.The DEI alarms, both Rattler and Viper, as well as Audiovox and Alpine alarms, all have options where you can set the unlock of the alarm to either single or double pulse. The test I had tothebone do says that the guys that installed his remote start set it to 'double pulse', meaning the alarm brain AUTOMATICALLY pulses the unlock wire twice. If he wants to have the car unlock driver, then all, all he needs to do is set the RS to single pulse, and if he hits the unlock twice within 2-3 seconds, the doors will unlock driver first, then all.And also, the Matrix and Vibe in 03-04 (not sure about 05) do NOT use the GMLR or any other Databus interface for the doorlocks. It's standard negative pulse. And if he had the factory security system, it arms and disarms with the doorlocks. Which is the same way many newer Toyotas work, which makes sense, as the majority of the wiring systems in the 03-04 Vibe is Toyota in general.Yep, as stated in previous posts, the factory fob definitely does driver door priority. Again, I'll ask. Just pulsing the factory doorlock wires ( a simple negative trigger) ONCE will yield only the driver door opening? This is VERY unusual in the realm of remote starts hence my question... If it does work this way, I'd love to verify that. This would allow me to offer the fuction to people at no cost...just for knowing thats how it worked! BTW, read my post again and you'll see how I clearly state that the vehicle doesn't use any dataline product, which would enable priority door. You obviously skimmed the post....Quote, originally posted by Jahntassa »I, sir, am a professional installer. As such, I can install a remote start on my own vehicle with no threat of suing myself. And on a DEI remote start, there is only one safeguard. The Neutral Safety wire. This wire needs to be grounded in order for the RS to work. In my case, it goes thorugh a switch that lets me disable it when I park in gear. In an automatic, it is generally bypassed, as the car's computer will NOT let the vehicle start with the car NOT in park.Its not YOU you need to worry about brother. Its the person you injured or their vehicle you damaged when YOUR vehicle launches in gear as it cranks. THAT is common sense.The DEI units you speak of are NOT designed for manual transmission cars. I sell/install both Autostart and Compustar products. Autostart has specific part numbers for manual transmission cars. Compustar will do both out of the box. The manual-trans-specific models that I sell (and most others on the market) will also tie into the door pin circuit, the park-brake light and bypass the clutch switch. You then need to set the vehicle into RESERVATION MODE by leaving the car in neutral running, pulling the e-brake, hitting the start button, removing keys (vehicle still running) and closing door. now hit start again and the vehicle shuts down, ready to remote start. If the doors open or the park brake is touched, the RESERVATION MODE is cancelled (assuming someone may have gone in the vehicle and put it in gear) and the vehicle won't start.Much more sophisticated than defeating a ground-out with a dash switch and relying on memory alone, no? I too sir am a government certified professional installer. So what?Quote, originally posted by Jahntassa »I installed a remote start in my own 6-speed vehicle. And I -will- do it for someone else, with appropriate contract stating that they will not sue me. Not that i've done this yet, as I won't just do it for any random person on the street.Why not just use the product intended solely for the purpose at hand, and avoid such contracts. How would that read anyway?Quote, originally posted by Jahntassa »For once, I will agree with you. They obviously did not correctly wire the remote start in tothebone's vehicle. They failed in both checking the two ignition wires, and also testing the pin-switch.Just as a general reminder, I have installed quite a few remote starts. My first was on my own vehicle, so I can be fairly confident I know what i'm talking about. I will say that I only have definite knowledge on 03-04, and NOT on the 05's. Not only have I successfully installed my RS on my own Vibe, but i've also written directions so that Mike installed his RS on his own Vibe, using a Do-It-Yourself version from DEI known as the Rattler 369D. He installed it on his 03 Base Automatic.Thanks for agreeing! And I too can provide general reminders. I have installed THOUSANDS of remote starts on just about every vehicle make and model that exists at one time or another. I've defeated security systems for which there were no modules. I've connected doorlocks that required 8 relays. Big deal??? What does that mean? I'm simply looking for some inside info on a car I don't see very often (not a big seller around here) I thought it was interesting that priority door unlock (previously only available via major labour or databus DL products for certain vehicles) was available freely through a simple program option.Interesting thread for sure!bmoney

[Jahntassa]

Quote, originally posted by HamiltonAudio »Yep, as stated in previous posts, the factory fob definitely does driver door priority. Again, I'll ask. Just pulsing the factory doorlock wires ( a simple negative trigger) ONCE will yield only the driver door opening? This is VERY unusual in the realm of remote starts hence my question... If it does work this way, I'd love to verify that. This would allow me to offer the fuction to people at no cost...just for knowing thats how it worked! BTW, read my post again and you'll see how I clearly state that the vehicle doesn't use any dataline product, which would enable priority door. You obviously skimmed the post.... I'm simply looking for some inside info on a car I don't see very often (not a big seller around here) I thought it was interesting that priority door unlock (previously only available via major labour or databus DL products for certain vehicles) was available freely through a simple program option.I didn't skim your post, it seemed to me that you figured that only databus interfaces would allow you that simplified driver door priority, so I was emphasizing that there are no modules needed, not even transponder bypass.The Vibe, and i'll assume the Matrix, in the 03-04 years only need an alarm / RS that's capable of putting out a negative pulse on the unlock wire. If they didn't want to keep the driver door priority, simply program the alarm system to use a double unlock pulse. The people that installed tothebone's system set his up to do the double unlock pulse, instead of leaving it at the default single pulse. There are other newer Toyotas that do this as well, though I forget offhand exactly which models.As far as the manual-transmission remote start, why would I, an intelligent person, need to go through such a rediculous 'set' procedure in order to make sure I can remote start my car next time I get in? The ONLY reason the car would launch is if I left the vehicle in gear. So far, in a year of having this system installed, I have NEVER left it in gear without the safety switch activated, which prevents it from starting. As for relying on memory alone, Funny that I typed up the instructions to both tothebone and Mike from my memory of installing the RS on my vehicle.Also, as I read through your post, and you mention that the unit I have on my vehicle is not designed for a manual transmission, that is true. How many people have things installed on their vehicles that are 'not designed to do something'. How many in-dash video screens have you seen on the street that -actually- only turn on with the parking brake engaged? The only reason the 790 is not slated for a stick shift is because it can easily be misused. And, as i've said, i've only ever done such a thing on my car, as I believe I can be pretty responsible to park in neutral, as i've done ever since i've been driving.

[HamiltonAudio]

So the definitive answer is yes then. Great! A single unlock pulse will ONLY UNLOCK THE DRIVER DOOR. A double unlock pulse WILL UNLOCK ALL DOORS. Thats very cool sir! I've yet to see that from the factory where it still functions from an aftermarket piece without serious intervention (again, the entire reason I asked).I entirely agree with you that if YOU choose to do something with a product that its not designed for, willingly bypassing or ignoring safety features, thats up to YOU. But for the general public purchasing remote starts, I'd assume they'd want every safety feature possible. I think reservation mode is a pain as well....as its meant to be. There is NO WAY to "forget" it in gear that way..... its designed to beat even the stupidest persons poor memory....The point is simple on manual trans cars - no SHOP in their right mind would EVER consent to installing an R/S on a manual car without the proper unit and all its safeguards installed. Its business suicide, don't you agree??? One lawsuit like that would put the shop out of business. For YOU on YOUR car, thats great.....but the end result is that if a person, who is considered lucid and normal, would EVER sign a contract stating the use of an AUTOMATIC starter on a MANUAL vehicle is fine, and all legal obligations are waived....it tells me there is something seriously wrong there.....After all that, I've learned something!!! Which is the valuable part of the post i'm sure. IMHO, its this sort of forum that allows learning in the industry to take place. Miscues happen...but thats part of the fun isn't it?In the end I hope that ragingfish and yourself don't think anything negative of my posts....now that you see what I was after, its clear we misunderstood each other. In my 10 years in this business, i've NEVER seen priority unlock work without huge labour.....so I assumed there was more to it....thats all. Not out to tell anybody right from wrong on anything....well, except those things that are sure to bring legal trouble to a shop thanks for the info!bmoney

[tothebone]

Actually, mine unlocks all doors with one pulse. I havent had a chance to try to reprogram it yet to see if it will work the other way. On mine you push the button once, the driver door opens and then a second later the rest do without pressing the button again. SInce its real darned cold here and I have no idea where the LED on the brain is, I'll have to see what setting the pulse the other way will do. Ill keep the forum posted.....

[HamiltonAudio]

This is also unusual, and something very specific to this vehicle/platform. If this is the case, i'm sure reprogramming will help. In 99% of the rest of the vehicle mfg world, its all doors or none Consider urself lucky...if you like the feature (I personally hate my 02 Grand Prix's priority...so it was deprogrammed!)bmoney