Honda supplying GM engines...

[ragingfish]

So I read online at consumer reports that Honda is going to be supplying GM with engines shortly down the line...here's the excerpt:HondaThis Japanese automaker began as a motorcycle manufacturer before segueing into cars in 1962. The company's main strength is innovative engineering and design. Honda also touts its status as the world's largest engine manufacturer, and will shortly begin supplying engines to General MotorsWhat's the deal? GM can't be bothered to make their own engines anymore? Anyone have more information regarding this alleged change of supply?

[TGebiV]

most of the smaller engines were mainly honda to begin with? or that is what the union letter my dad gets said a while back?

[Vibe Rater]

This is not uncommon at all. I work at a GM assembly plant where we have been putting Suzuki engines from Japan in our vehicles for 15 years. Our new vehicle (Chevy Equinox) to be built in 2004 will have all our engines supplied from CHINA! The deal with Honda that you speak of was signed a couple of years ago. Bottom line, it's cheaper and easier for GM to buy engines. than to build them. The engine plant in China had excess capacity, so rather than build and maintain another plant in NA, just use the capacity. GM shareholders are cheering.

[ragingfish]

That's disappointing to me. I really thought all along I was getting a pure american car (looking back to past purchases prior to vibe). Not that I bought it for that reason. I never did. But I was always happy I was driving an american car. Now I find out all along they haven't been making their own engines. Perhaps that's why my engines always SUCKED in the past. Does anyone know what engines were used in the 02 sunfire (my last car), outta curiosity?

[Vibe Rater]

Sunfires and Cavaliers are built in Mexico. Not sure where the engines come from. Probably Mexico. A North American car with a japanese engine in it is not such a bad thing, especially smaller engines. They just do it better. CHINA is a reality now. It is a monster market that is growing in leaps and bounds every year. They don't kill capitalists anymore. Our mission is to be able to SELL OUR PRODUCTS to them. Don't look at it as though they are stealing a piece of your pie. If you look at it that way we are in very big trouble. Look at it as if they are making the pie BIGGER! It is the world's largest market and they love our products. If they can afford to buy them, they will, BIGTIME. I like pie!

[NSimkins]

quote:Sunfires and Cavaliers are built in Mexico.Are you referring to the engines? The Sunfire and Cavalier are assembled in the Lordstown, Ohio assembly plant. That is the only plant in the US (or any other country for that matter) that I am aware of that assembles these 2 models.

[vibe_driver]

quote:What's the deal? GM can't be bothered to make their own engines anymore? Anyone have more information regarding this alleged change of supply? I am new to the forum so bare with me.. To answer your question on gm and there engines. It is all about the all mighty dollar... It is less expensive for gm to buy the engines than to build them. Also to use that same engine on many different platforms.. ex. Chevy Cavaleir, Pontiac Sunfire and many Saturn platforms use the same engine the ecotec.. You can check it out for yourself......

[vibe_driver]

I know for a fact that lordstown builds the cavaleir and the sunfire.. I build them 40 hours a week.

[engine1]

A lot of motors are made by AC Delco I sell a truckload every year were I live.

[Frosty]

Hello!Why is everyone so shocked here! Here is my $.02Your Vibe has a Toyota engine, the Nova from NUMMI was a toyota Corolla. Geo Metro was a Suzuki (Did the U.S. get that gem) the tracker is a Suzuki. So if GM goes to Honda for engines where exactly is the big change in policy? Not to knock the new ecotech engine but GM hasn't been known for their state of the art 4 cylinder offerings.Honda and Toyota make some of the best small engines on the planet. GM is wise to go to them and consumers will benefit.

[BaseVibeDriver]

Honda is supplying GM with a small volume of the 3.5L V6 engines that GM will use for the Saturn VUEs. Since Saturn is GM's import fighter, GM will probably gain more sales with this move. Honda, in return, will buy Isuzu (GM affiliate) built diesel engines that they will put in their European marketed cars.

[Flip-Side]

quote:So I read online at consumer reports that Honda is going to be supplying GM with engines shortly down the Where did you get this info? It was a deal GM had lined up back in 96 when they wanted the Honda engines for the small GM cars (Cavelier/Sunfire) and all the Saturn cars. I worked at the GM tech center in Warren Michigan, and the engineers there told me the deal fell through, and began developing a more refined 2.2L Ecotec engine, which is being used today. GM is now partners with Isuzu (They make the 5.3L V8 and the Duramax Diesels for GM). Same as how Ford works with Mazda, and Dodge works with Mitsubishi. Seems the deal is lined up for 2004 for the VUE like you said. Kinda cool, but the 3.0 v6 in the VUE is already 180HP with 190LB of torque! Hope the increase in power is worth the big jump in price. http://www.saturnfans.com/Cars/Future/p ... onda.shtml

[MA-VIBE-FAN]

quote:Sunfires and Cavaliers are built in Mexico.Are you referring to the engines? The Sunfire and Cavalier are assembled in the Lordstown, Ohio assembly plant. That is the only plant in the US (or any other country for that matter) that I am aware of that assembles these 2 models.Actually a small number of Cavaliers and Sunfires are built at the Ramos Arizpe Mexico plant. (About 60,000 in 2001)http://gmdynamic.com/handbook/index.php ... ountry=MEX

[Vibe-rate]

quote:Honda is supplying GM with a small volume of the 3.5L V6 engines that GM will use for the Saturn VUEs. Since Saturn is GM's import fighter, GM will probably gain more sales with this move. Honda, in return, will buy Isuzu (GM affiliate) built diesel engines that they will put in their European marketed cars. He's absolutely correct here. The use of Japanese engines in US vehicles is nothing new, although I believe this is the 1st use of a Honda engine in domestic product (besides the examples given above, the Taurus SHO used a Yamaha engine for years).

[MA-VIBE-FAN]

quote: Now I find out all along they haven't been making their own engines. Perhaps that's why my engines always SUCKED in the past. Does anyone know what engines were used in the 02 sunfire (my last car), outta curiosity?Tonawanda, NY.http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertra ... ow/ln2.htm

[Frosty]

Hey Andy, cool site http://www.gmdynamic.com/handbook/ Notably it doesn't show NUMMI as they are building Vibes for GM under contract correct?The site could use an update for 2002 and 2003.It shows Ste-Therese built:CY 2001 CHEVROLET CAMARO 27,108 CY 2001 PONTIAC FIREBIRD 20,281 Seems a shame they couldn't keep it running. Great cars. Not a lot more Vibes are being built.

[rubberman]

Its cheaper from GM side no tooling needed no plant to build or new line to start up besides Honda makes very good 4cyl and 6 cyl engines so why not use the best!. I have a 1987 honda civic with 560,000 kms on it still going orginal motor!

[Vibe Rater]

I'm almost certain that most, if not all, of the Sunfires and Cavaliers in Canada come from Mexico. I had forgotten about Lordstown building them too. Thanks for the heads up. They must be for the American market.

[NSimkins]

quote:I'm almost certain that most, if not all, of the Sunfires and Cavaliers in Canada come from Mexico.I found a plant in Mexico that procudes the Cavalier/Sunfire:http://gm.com/company/gmability/environ ... tmlquote:I had forgotten about Lordstown building them too. Thanks for the heads up. They must be for the American market.Yeah, it must be. Thanks to you too for the heads-up.

[rubberman]

Did you have a 2.2 push rod ohv they are junk eat head gaskets

[ragingfish]

I had whatever the lowest engine was in my 02 sunfire. It was a 2.2 something or other...had no pickup at all. Part was the engine, the rest was the shoddy tranny. Never shifted fast enough. Had to drive my auto like a manual, starting in 1st and shifting my way back to drive. Ridiculous.

[viBert]

I had a 96 Cavalier with the 2.4 dual overhead cam and 4 speed automatic. I was very impressed with the "son of quad 4". It had a lot of torque and was fairly smooth and quite until you put your foot down hard. I traded it in against the vibe, it had 192,000 kilometers and didn't burn any oil. The only problems - had to change the water pump and alternator. The engine and the stereo were the only quality items in the car.Now the 2.2 was pretty crude in comparison but I thought they were reliable.

[rubberman]

My sister had a 94 Cavalier it went through two heater cores in a year and a have a head gasket the doors started to rust out all on a car just 3 yrs old with low miles it had the crappy 2.2

[Flip-Side]

quote:My sister had a 94 Cavalier it went through two heater cores in a year and a have a head gasket the doors started to rust out all on a car just 3 yrs old with low miles it had the crappy 2.2The 2.4 Quad 4 was a beast, but expensive to make. The 2.2 was a cheap, econo engine used for cheap cars. It was refined to the 140hp ECOTEC 2.2 DOHC, that is actually a very good engine today. The old 2.2 was too weak for anything other than a piont A to B car.

[viBert]

Yeah, the 94's were horrible.quote:My sister had a 94 Cavalier it went through two heater cores in a year and a have a head gasket the doors started to rust out all on a car just 3 yrs old with low miles it had the crappy 2.2

[PBFlash]

I had a 95 with the 2.2. Head gasket was changed under recall. 2 years later it was leaking again. I gave it to my sister when I bought my Vibe. She had it for 2 weeks before it died. Had about 130,000 miles on it.

[ragingfish]

isn't chevy the brand that says "we'll be there"? they should change it to "we'll hang around for a while, but after that, you're on your own sucker."