winter driving

[dante]

we just got dumped on big time with a winter snow storm.took my vibe out to my mom and dads house to clean there driveway and almost put it sideways a couple times in the snow. This has to be one of the worst cars that I have ever driven in the snow is it because it is so light would a little weight in the rear help? I have brand new tires on it.

[drunkenmaxx]

do you have a FWD? you shouldnt be really kicking out to the side much, unless you are hitting the brakes too hard. i have the AWD, so i cant really relate or give you advice. maybe snowtires?

[Altus]

I had a similar problem today after our dumping last night -- but for me the car wanting to drift was because one of the front tires was getting more power than the other, breaking loose and sliding. (base Vibe FWD)Anyone else notice that the power distribution on our FWD's seems to be uneven? It sure seems like the passenger side wheel is getting a lot more of the power than the driver's side.

[drunkenmaxx]

Quote, originally posted by Altus »I had a similar problem today after our dumping last nightwere you sliding because of the weight loss due to your dumping? usually (correct me someone if i am wrong) i am pretty sure the drivers side is the "drive" side.

[jmf2]

a good set of studded snow tires will take care of the problem, provided your state allows them. takes all the fun out of sliding around corners though...

[nismo]

Okay. My car doesn't spin out like you guys are stating. I guess, I have an exceptional car.Inder

[ToolGuy]

Got 8.5 inches here and the Vibe drives like it should, not sure what your issue is but yes a bag of sand or kitty litter may have put more weight on the ground. You may see gas mileage go down a few points though.

[vibegtdriver]

I have always lived in snowy areas and as such have driven a lot of RWD, FWD, and 4WD cars in snow. I've lived in CT, VT, IL, CO for most of my life. In my opinion, the Vibe GT with its Continental Conticrap tires is a lousy car in snow. I don't recall exactly what the front/rear weight ratio is of the Vibe, but in general the car acts like a lot of FWD cars that have a poor F/R weight ratio. That being said, when I drive, I know how to "compensate" for the lack of grippiness, lack of traction control (having a stick helps), and lack of decent tires. In my case, I think the tires are a big culprit.If you do a lot of driving in the snow, in my opinion, you should have 4 snow tires (maybe even studded) on any car/SUV, but especially with the Vibe GT which has those awful Continentals. To be honest, I don't put snows on my car, but then again, I have another vehicle that's really good in snow, so I don't bother worrying about the Vibe GT.

[redlava]

I don't think that the Vibe handles too bad in the snow. I have owned a 4x4 truck (good in snow) and a 79 Malibu (bad in snow). The Vibe is somewhere in the middle. The frontwheel drive helps quite a bit, and because of that I actually find it a little difficult to get it sideways on purpose and accident, unless I use the E-brake. Those first few snowfalls every year there is always a learning curve for winter driving. By the middle of January the Vibe will handle a lot better.

[Stang2Vibe]

I mostly agree with the others here except for a few things.Putting weight in the back of a FWD car will not help things. This is an old trick for RWD cars to get traction in the snow. Most older RWD cars were front-heavy, and therefore there was not a lot of weight to push the drive tires (rear) down through the snow to get traction. Weighing down the rear of a FWD car adds to the weight that must be pulled to get the car moving from a stop, may take some weight off the drive wheels by shifting the weight to the rear, and adds to the mass of the vehicle when you have to stop. Remember, momentum is exponentially increased by increasing the car's mass, so the more mass you add to the car the more mass you have to stop. It would be much wiser to put on some dedicated snow tires than to add weight to the rear of the Vibe. Adding more weight to the back of the Vibe is probably only going to make it fishtail more because the car will tend to go in the direction that momentum is carrying it.I agree that it takes a bit of a learning period when adjusting to a new car and even to new tires in winter weather. These newer and lighter FWD cars generally have inherent problems with snow traction.For some help with managing cars like these in the snow, there are some general tips that should help. The biggest one I would say is to find a big, open lot that isn't plowed or salted and practice emergency maneuvers there when there are no other vehicles around. Push the limits a bit to learn what your car's capabilities are in a safe environment so that you will be more prepared for how the car behaves in the snow. Better to spin out in an empty parking lot than on a busy highway. Besides being a good learning experience, it can be lots of fun, too!Practice losing traction while traveling in a direction (sliding) and trying to recover quickly and safely. Remember that any quick or hard input to the vehicle will usually result in very undesirable behavior in low-traction situations. For example, a sudden hard steer in one direction or the other, slamming on the brakes, or mashing on the gas will make the car do things that you probably don't want it to while on the road. Gentle inputs are a key. Also, learn how to recover the car from fishtail slides. Slow down as much as is reasonably possible before starting to turn. Giving a FWD car some throttle as you make the turn to pull the car into and through a turn is always preferable to drifting into it and sliding sideways. If the car's rear end does start to slide away during a turn, there are ways to recover it. The best way to do this in a car like the Vibe is to apply a little bit of throttle and steer into the slide. This is an unnatural feeling until you try it and get a bit used to it. For example, if you begin to make a left turn and part way through the turn the back of the car starts sliding away from you to the right, you need to give it a little throttle, steer toward the right until the rear of the car is about in line with the front again, and then let off the throttle as you return the steering to center. This will feel odd because you have to let the car slide a bit in the direction that you don't want to go, but if you steer opposite or don't perform this countersteering maneuver the back of the car will probably slide out of control. If it slides far enough, it will start to pull the front of the car in the direction that you don't want it to go too and will eventually spin you around so you are facing backward. So you always want to steer a bit toward the direction that you're sliding as soon as you start to feel the back end break loose. For a right turn, you do the same thing but steer the opposite way if you start to slide.

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by dante »would a little weight in the rear help?NO!Adding weight in the rear does nothing for a front wheel drive car...With this car, snow tires seem a must...All seasons are crap in snow, especially if you're using factory tires.Invest in a decent set of snows, and slow down!!

[ColonelPanic]

If it is just snow, I find my FWD Vibe/auto performs exceptionally. The Continentals didn't do so hot, but with the new set of all-seasons I have on there now, it does alright. Although it isn't *that* great, since if it were, it would be sitting in my driveway right now instead of still sitting in work's parking lot. Wed. evening on the way to work, it was doing great - roads were snow-covered. The car remained firmly planted on the road for the entire drive. I kept it around 30, O/D off for more engine braking, and I didn't have any problems. Even without ABS, no problems with locking up the wheels when stopping.But Wednesday night, we had so much sleet - more sleet fell that night than I think I've ever seen... The Vibe refused to get out of the parking lot at work. All it was really doing was digging itself deeper and deeper into the snow and ice packed on the ground. One wheel would spin, one wheel wouldn't do anything. A limited-slip in the front would have rocked... I just had to leave it there, and I'll go back sometime within the next couple of days to pick it up. I'm kinda bummed that the Vibe let me down, but then again, this was a very unusual storm we had here. Sometimes when there is too much ice, you can't do much good with any vehicle. Although a Jeep was what it took to get me back home. After the issues I had with the Vibe, I'm going to find a set of 15" wheels and slap on some snow tires for the winter. I've never really considered them necessary this far south, we rarely have a sizable snowfall. It's usually 3-5" here and there. But, I think I need to go ahead and invest in a set of good snow tires.

[Stang2Vibe]

The storm you had out there was definitely a freak occurance with all that ice, but it is probably a good idea to go ahead with the snow tires and wheels. If you're having a mild winter, you don't have to put them on. During snowy winters, you can easily change them off whenever you want by yourself so you don't have to keep paying to have them mounted/dismounted just for 3 months use and no waiting at the tire shop all day.

[ColonelPanic]

Yep, it was insane! It may never happen again, or it could happen again next week - hard to say around here. After being without a car for a day or so, I think the snows are a good idea too... Although from what I learned today, it appears to be next to impossible to find a set around here. I'd really like a new set of wheels to mount them to - like you mentioned, a lot less of a hassle. I could just go down to the folk's house and swap them out when necessary. But, cash is getting to be in short supply, so I'm not sure now if I could afford the initial cost of new wheels and tires. Not sure how expensive a set of 15" wheels would run, probably not much, but will still cost a good chunk of change when adding tires on top of that cost... I may just have to get some 16's mounted to my stock rims and deal with the bi-annually mounting/unmounting if I can't afford new wheels... In the long run, running snows on the 16's will probably cost more money than the 15's with new wheels, but in terms of *right now* the 16's may be less of a hit financially... I dunno, gonna do something soon, that's about all I know. How much does a set of 15" steel wheels run anyway?

[Stang2Vibe]

Oh, I hear ya about the money situation. For this winter, I absolutely need to be able to drive in all but the most horrible conditions to get to work and school, so I chose to buy a pair of Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50 snow tires and put them on the front wheels. I have a cheap pair of leftover snow tires on the rear wheels from last winter. The cheap snows (Wintermaster Plus) were a bit better than the original Conti's that came on the car, but they still weren't cutting it either. I just decided that there would be no screwing around with tires anymore and just bought a pair of the good ones. It snowed here a bit last night (only about an inch) and there was some ice underneith the snow in some places. I was visiting with family so I got to try them out. Things were pleasantly uneventful with them on, in the light snow it actually felt almost the same as driving on dry pavement. I decided to give them a real test and try climbing a very steep cobblestone street that was icy, snowy, and unsalted. I left the shifter in 1st gear and just worked the gas pedal and steering wheel all the way up the hill. The tires spun a good deal of the way up, but I didn't lose momentum and did make it to the top while maintaining about 95% control of the car the whole way up.Everyone's big complaints about the Blizzak tires was how they handled extremely soft in corners (which I have to agree with but will be able to tolerate) and that they wear fast because the special soft rubber compound that gives them great ice and snow traction wears fast on dry roads and in warmer weather. Even after all the spinning up the hill, the little nubs are still on the tread surface from when the rubber was injected into the tire mould. I figure that if I only use them for the 3 worst months for snow, I should get a good 2-3 seasons out of them. And I'll sacrifice the handling capability gladly during that time to get the snow traction as a trade-off.I ordered my tires from tirerack.com because they offered the best overall price on them after checking around a few places. They shipped them out the same day they were ordered, emailed me a tracking number with UPS so I could track the shipment, and they were delivered within 3 business days. I was quite pleased. I'm fortunate that we have an old tire machine at work, so the other night when I was off work, I took the car in and mounted the tires myself. I was curious to see how they would ride since I had no way to spin balance them. I've been driving on them for about a week now and so far there are no out-of-balance thumping sounds or steering wheel shakes. I even had the car out on the highway on Christmas Day to go to my mom's house. Went all the way up to 105 MPH and still no shakes or thumps. They also ride quiter than the cheap snows I had on before. So far I'm pleased with them all around.Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic »How much does a set of 15" steel wheels run anyway?Tirerack.com lists a set of 4 Blizzak WS-50 tires (size 195/65/15)already mounted and balanced on 15" steel wheels for the Vibe with plastic wheel covers included right now at $445 plus shipping. Opting for the package without the wheel covers saves you $25. The steel wheels alone are priced at $30 each. The tires in that size are $75 each when part of the package.For 16" wheels, they offer the following:205/55/16 Blizzak WS-50 tires, 16" steel wheels, plastic wheel covers, mounted and balanced for $590 plus shipping.-tires are $100 each as part of the package-wheels are $40 each-set of 4 plastic wheel covers is $30

[simon]

If you find the backend is letting go it could well be that your rear tires are too worn. A lot of people think that if they put two good winter tires on the front wheels of a FWD they will be fine in the winter. It will definately help when pulling away but if you want to brake or steer you'll have problems.I was out in the snow last night - everyone I met was very hesitantly moving through the snow but I felt very sure footed in my Vibe.

[Stang2Vibe]

Yes, that is a good point. I forgot to mention that even though my rear tires are cheap, they still have a lot of tread depth and are a snow tire design and compound. My biggest problems were just getting the car to go and sometimes to stop. I needed front tires that would give me more traction in the snow.

[ColonelPanic]

Thanks for the input there Stang! Very much appreciated.The price isn't so bad on those 15's after all! I can deal with $420, that's actually not *that* much more than just the 16" all-seasons I have on the car now. And there's a set of wheel covers that dad ran across somewhere that were on a Grand Prix or something, those will probably fit. Free and they say Pontiac on them to boot. Now I just have to figure out how I'm going to get $420 + shipping...

[ColonelPanic]

Stang, I took your advice and bought a winter tire/wheel package from Tire Rack yesterday... Got a set of 15's instead of 16's...To my surprise, (I had these shipped to my parent's house) the tires are already there! That's QUICK! Only one problem though... The tires came from South Bend, IN but the lug nuts came from Delaware or something, so I have to wait until Monday to install 'em. Now it's 55+ degrees out there, not much of a need for the Blizzaks now.

[dante]

well thanks to all for your input.I forgot a few things first I have a Brand new set(4) of Michelin Hydroedge tires on my Vibe.It is a base fwd model and the back end started the slide.I think with the 10-12 inches of snow we also got some ice first so that is why it started to slide.I was going around a corner and could feel it getting loose so told my wife to hang on we were going for a ride.Lucky for me I had taken a driving class at work that helped you get out of slides etc. this really helped as I drove out of it and did not hit the car coming at me.(bet they had to change there shorts like my wife) I guess because the car is so light that you really have to be carefull with it in snow. I like the idea about going to parking lot and practice driving it in snow that way you can be ready if it happens to you.Problem with snow tires is we only get maybe 2 big storms a year in Mi so why spend the extra money.I don't know about you but I sure can think of other things to spend my money on..Have a happy new year

[simon]

I also have a set of snow chains for my front wheels. If all else fails its nice to know you have them. They are a bit of a pain to put on as it involves kneeling in the snow but it saves you waiting a couple of hours for a tow if you get bogged down in a drift. In my province you can only use them on unpaved roads and you wouldn't want to use them about about 30kph

[rainvibe]

Agree, I keep a pair of Z chains around, they work great and are fast and easy to install. A bit pricy, but I buy mine in the spring when they are moving them out