Idle, starting, and Rev issues

[vibemoon]

Last night I the driver side headlight went out. SO I removed the battery to change the bulb. Put the battery back in and started it up. The CEL came on and it stalled out almost immediately. I finally got it to idle normally, after several more starts and then took it out on the road. It would not rev over 3000 rpms and would not shift unless I let off the gas. I took it back home and disconnected the battery for about 40 minutes hoping to reset the computer. Same problem persisted. I ended up dropping it off at the dealer last night and I am currently waiting for them to call. Any ideas on what could be causing this? All I did was R/I the battery which I have done a number of times in the last few months to work on the vehicle. It is almost like the vehicle is on Limp Mode. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Mavrik]

sounds to me like you have a mass air flow sensor problem. I disconnected my battery when I installed my Cold Air Intake and when I reconnected the battery, the MAFs was blown. My Vibe would not rev past 3000 RPM and I had to granny shift at 2000 (standard) to limp it into the dealership. My suggestion for you would be to take it into the dealership, get it scanned and if you still have warranty on the Vibe, they should replace it for you. I would perhaps not mention to them you had the battery out but thats up to you. Just some advice from a service advisor at a GM dealership... those MAF sensors are not cheap.The MAF sensor is located on the airbox, its wiring all near that battery, maybe check and make sure there are no disconnected wires from when you removed the battery... if its loose and the engine is not getting a reading from the sensor, it will set a code and not allow past 3000RPM rev, just another suggestion to save you a trip to the shop.

[Mase]

I agree that it is probably the MAF. I notice you have an intake. A lot of people accidentally bump their wrench on the intake tube while loosening the battery cables. This will cause a short through the MAF resulting in a dtc P0100 - P0104. It's always safer to simply unplug the MAF before removing the battery.

[vibemoon]

Do you think they will charge me for the mass air flow sensor? How much is it? I have had the CAI since 800 miles and currently have over 14,800 miles.

[Mavrik]

Its hard to say and up to the dealership... some may, some may not. I know myself I put my old airbox back into the vehicle and limped the car in just to be safe... I know a few people on this site have had no issues with their CAI and warranty on MAF but I know here, my manager is pretty tight on warranty issues, if there is anything aftermarket that could or did cause the problem, no coverage.

[vibemoon]

I thought about taking the CAI out but did not want to do it in the parking lot and it was pretty late last night. It was also about 25F outside. Any idea how much the MAFS is?

[Mase]

I have no idea how much it'll cost, but try calling your local Toyota dealer to get a price on the part before you let Pontiac go ahead with the service. Toyota seems to be cheaper with some parts.

[ToolGuy]

Pretty crappy if it is that touchy! I will never bump mine in the future! And they may give you a hard time on the MAF since it is linked to the CAI, which is not stock.

[Mavrik]

yeah its a toyota part, GM pretty much buys it from them and then puts their price on it... An educated guess would be over $200-$300 canadian dollor at GM price. When mine was done, we didn't even have stock on it so I was allowed to take one from an 05 Vibe on the lot. I never saw the price of it but I am sure its up there. *edit* looked it up, $245.50 CAD

[vibemoon]

I just talked to the dealer and they have not even looked at it yet. They are waiting for the Transmission tech to look at it. Dumb dealer. (No offense Mavrik) I will let you guys know as soon as I find out.

[Mavrik]

lol doesn't need a transmission tech... but what ever they wanna do, MAF is $245.50CAD from GM.and no offence taken.

[vibemoon]

Well I finally heard from the dealer about 1:30pm on Friday. They called to say they could not diagnose the vehicle with the cold air intake on it. I asked why and they said it would mess up their dignostic tools. IF you know dealers, this is a bunch of bullsh*t. I went and picked up the car and asked about the rattling windows while I was there. They told me it is normal. I took the car home, tore out the CAI and put the factory box back in in 40 mins and drove to another dealer who replaced the mass air flow sensor under warranty. If the 1st dealer would have diagnosed the vehicle and said I would have to pay for the repair then that would have been upsetting but understandable. Instead, they lost a customer for life because they would not even look at the vehicle.

[ColonelPanic]

Quote, originally posted by vibemoon »IF you know dealers, this is a bunch of bullsh*t.Sounds like it to me... I'm not a mechanic, but I would think that having a CAI installed wouldn't prevent them from plugging in the friggin' scanner and reading the codes stored in the PCM, obviously pointing to the mass airflow sensor. Glad you got it fixed though... Here's to the new dealer, hopefully you'll have good luck with them.

[Mase]

Glad you got it replaced. I think it's good the first dealer wouldn't look at it. It may have saved you a couple hundred in parts and 2hrs in labor to get them to screw it in. Some dealers wont deal with aftermarket parts simply because the car owner can claim any little scratch, ding, etc on their parts.So is there any code written down on your dtc? Was it actually caused by the battery shorting against the CAI tube?

[vibemoon]

We don't know yet what caused the MAFS to fail. When I called the Dealer, they did not seem too surprised that it was the MAFS. It could have been due to the removal of the battery which reset the computer and when I started it back up, the cold temp along with the CAI caused the failure. I am leaving the CAI off until some warmer temps next spring.

[Mavrik]

Well I did warn you about the CAI and warranty, good call on taking it out and taking it elsewhere. Some dealerships won't diag if its a part of after market items, I know the techs here will but won't warranty the work so personally I think you were better off with route #2 and at least the first dealership was nice enough not to charge you or fix it instead of you showing up to get the car and its fixed and you have yourself a nice bill. At least be thankful of that despite the hassle of R&R your CAI... but now your a pro! And I can't explain what happened to mine either... unexplained like yours.

[Atomb]

this problem reminded me of an issue i had with my VW. I was replacing the battery and when everything was hooked up, i couldn't accelerate very hard or get it up above 60km/h without the engine hesitating and scaring the bejesus outta me! The CEL came on....I took it to my mechanic (great old german guy in a white lab coat that only worked on german cars....right out of a movie!) He told me that with the battery disconnected, the computer needed to reconfigure. in VWs that required 30km at 30km/h give or take. Any drastic change in speed above or below would not work. (kinda hard to do if you think about it!). So i found some back roads through farmland and did that...it worked! I don't know if Toyota has anything like that for their engines....