Tick tick tick...

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:11 pm

My Vibe's not doing so well these days.. When I start it up after it has been sitting for a while and it is cold, the engine ticks heavily... In particular, it sounds terrible when accelerating. Doesn't quiet down until the engine gets around normal temperature. At that point, the noise doesn't go away, but it does become less pronounced. It has been doing this for a couple of months, but is steadily becoming worse - I should probably do something about it, huh? At the moment, my prime suspect would be the valves themselves. It never has been a quiet running engine, always has had a tick at idle, but this is something entirely different. At 38K, I couldn't need that valve adjustment that the manual calls for at 60K, right? Who knows!The bad part about it is, I'll have to leave it at the dealer overnight sometime so they can check it out the following morning. Any ideas?

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:21 pm

my valves click click click all the time. they annoy me, so i just turn my stereo up louder.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:26 pm

lol! I've got a combination of noises that makes me do the same thing... One of these days, we'll all be deaf!

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:32 pm

For the first time, the other day, I could hear the VSV switching from inside the cabin...never heard it before...now that I heard it, I can't tune it out...quiet irritating...

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:53 pm

The VSV noise is more like a "click" isn't it? I've always heard a fast-paced clicking since the beginning at idle... That never really concerned me, I'm used to hearing GM engines make a lot of noise at idle. But, this noise I'm hearing now, I dunno... More of a tick or a "peck" than a click. Man, I suck at explaining things. I was hoping I could just pin it on the VSV noise, I could probably live with that - but it seems to be a bit different than what others have described their VSV noise.I'll just let it warm up for a couple of minutes before driving it anywhere until I can get it down to the dealer. It could be nothing, or it could turn out to be something major, knowing how lucky of a soul I am! At least it isn't going to cost me anything if it does turn out to be really bad.... Unless it needs a valve job or some other routine maintenance.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:42 pm

hmmm. that's interesting. it's not the vsv then i'd definitely take it in and see if they can figure out what's wrong!

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:09 pm

Here is what I recommend and it is cheap. GM recommends their product of Chevron Techron fuel system cleaner, actually I believe they are both the same. It will clean injectors, valves and pistons. I got the Techron at Murrays Auto Store. Slap can become an issue for V8 engines that are not driven hard at times and poor quality gas. The carbon builds up and causes knocking. After adding the Techron, it will usually go away. Lots of LS1 V8 owners have used it with sucess. I was told this trick from a GM Corvette Master Tech and based off that I ran a bottle through in my Vibe for good measure. Remember the Techron, do not get anything else that is cheaper thinking it will work the same. Techron works! You could even do a top engine clean using GM Top Engine Cleaner. I have done this before but not to a Vibe. Here is a link to the procedure for an LS1 V8. It too works but does throw codes since the engine runs like garbage while pouring the liquid into the engine. Vettes can clear codes thorugh the DIC. You will have to find out where to pour for a Vibe and possibly clear the codes on your own. Both of the above procedures GM does to for valve noise & piston slap. Cheap fix if it works and worth a try... http://www.corvetteforum.com/t...cID=1

POLO · Post by **POLO** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:06 am

me too it ticking for a long time,maybe at the begining,but i tought was normal.

futseal04 · Post by **futseal04** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:48 am

Piston slap is far worse than that.....and it can't be cured with a bottle of techron. It came about in the 99 model year GM pickups. Their versions of the LS1 (5.3, 4.8, 6.0L) had hyperuretic pistons instead of cast ones. These pistons have larger expansion/contraction limits than conventional pistons, and because of this, made a chatter during warmup. After the engine had reached NOT, then the pistons had expanded enough to fill the cylinder and stop the noise. There is a big conspiracy theory about this, and you can read about it here:http://www.pistonslap.comAlso just FYI, carbon build up in the cylinder is caused by incomplete combustion. Incomplete combustion occurs at low and part-throttle conditions, where the air/fuel mixture is not completely burned. Now, you have a reason to race, because if you don't step on it periodically, then you won't clean out all of that carbon and your engine will run like crap....(that is what I tell my wife when I hot rod in the Rivi).The noise that everyone talks about is (I think) a combination of fuel injector actuation, valve noise, and combustion chamber noise because of the high compression ratio. I have heard these noises seperately at one point or another on different vehicles, and that is just my uneducated opinion.

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:27 am

LS1 5.7L V8s is what I am referring too and in those if not the pistons fault, it can be curred with Techron since it is just build up causing the noise. Those engines and site you refer to I know about and it is the pistons fault, not buiild up. Piston slap should not have been what I said but Colonel states a tick and worse under load and cold. I duuno what the noise is without hearing it but if it is due to build up Techron will work and not hurt to do it. I only quoted fact and from solid GM Technician sources. Your FYI is just what I mentioned with some LS1 owers when stepping on it does not clean it out. Stepping on it for them results in knockiing and ticking under loads.

kostby · Post by **kostby** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:22 am

Just out of curiosity, what type and weight of oil are you Vibers using? I'm using synthetic-blend 5W30, and I've noticed more noise than usual at startup and for the first mile or so during cool (38-degrees F) mornings this week.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:15 pm

Ok, here's what I know so far: I've definitely found that the noise originates right smack in the center of the engine, near the top. For the first time, I think I actually paid attention to the VSV clicking noise. Popped the hood this morning and was listening to the car idle. It cycled on, clicked for a while, then shut off. Cycled on and off a couple of times while I was listening. Definitely is a different sound than what I am hearing, and comes from far over to the driver's side. So, I've ruled that out. Pity, that would have been the easiest thing to accept. MiVibe-ToolGuy, thanks for the link to the top engine cleaning procedure... I'm a bit familiar with it, had the same thing done on my last car. Dad has a '99 Silverado (5.3 litre) in which the valves have clattered loudly ever since he's owned that truck. He also has the piston slap problem as well. The dealer has done the top engine clean thing 4 times now - that quiets down the valves significantly, but the noise comes back after a while. He fought with GM over that one for the longest time, they ended up giving him an extended warranty. My friend brought his Vibe into the dealer for some maintenance at 30K. (same dealer I go to.) Along with whatever else he had done, they also did the top engine clean on it. I went ahead and scheduled an appointment at the dealer to get this done, along with an oil change. Bringing it in Friday, I'll let those guys deal with it. Looks like the procedure isn't that bad though. A bit steep to let the dealer do it though - $90.It may not even help, but then again it couldn't hurt. The service advisor recommends this be done every 30K. I sure don't remember seeing anything about it in the maintenance schedule, but I had a different dealer tell me something similar with the last car. Techron rocks, too. Thanks for the reminder, I generally run a bottle through every other oil change, but I haven't put any in it since June or so. I'll make a note to buy some next time I'm in the parts store.And kostby, I've used Pennzoil 5W30 since the beginning. Except the last time, which now that you mention it, could also be causing the noises I would imagine... Instead of the dealer using the oil I supplied them with, it slipped their mind when they did the last oil change, so they used their stuff. I'm wondering if they may have put in a different weight oil than it needed. Don't recall for sure if it was doing that before the last oil change. Only have 1K on this oil, so it is going to be changed way early this time around. But it will probably need it after the top engine clean is done.I'll definitely keep you guys posted on the outcome. And if I can, maybe try to get a recording of the ticking to share with you guys.

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:21 am

Could be anything at this point, hope it is not major. Sorry to hear your issues and you do take care of your car so again I hope it is not major. Techron does indeed work, some people I know have had sulfer build up on their gas sending unit sensors due to the fuel used, a couple of bottles of Tech and back to normal, no issues. Yes let us know what the dlr finds or does. The dlr can easily clear codes since they have a Tech 2. So do I and if you lived here we could do it!

zionzr2 · Post by **zionzr2** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:01 am

This is what the stuff looks like there are usually 2 sizes on for 20 Gallons and one for 12 Gallonsthe 12 usually sells for about $6.US and the 20 Gallon usually sells for about $10.US. I use it as recomended every oil change.A link http://www.chevron.com/prodser....shtm to their website for more info

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:03 am

Quote, originally posted by zionzr2 Â»This is what the stuff looks like there are usually 2 sizes on for 20 Gallons and one for 12 Gallonsthe 12 usually sells for about $6.US and the 20 Gallon usually sells for about $10.US.A link http://www.chevron.com/prodser....shtm to their website for more infoYes that is it, you got it! I buy mine at Murrays Auto Parts.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:17 am

Walmart sells it too;...

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:58 am

Woo hoo, my baby's back and all degunkified. On the bill, here's what they say they did:Quote Â»ES1 EMISSION SYSTEM SERVICE, PERFORMED AND DECARBONED COMBUSTION SYSTEMNot sure what all is included, or how they did this... I'm assuming they ran a solution through the fuel line itself, cleaning the injectors and everything else... Don't know for sure though.My engine must have been crudded up bigtime, the difference between how it runs now vs. how it was running a few hours ago is simply amazing. The engine now behaves beautifully! No longer shakes at idle, power delivery is smooth as silk, seems to have more get up and go, and it certainly runs a heck of a lot quieter. I couldn't get over how much better it is running, I made a few detours when going home, enjoying the ride - the 20 mile trip home from the dealer took me 80. I'm quite pleased! Still have yet to see what it is going to do when the engine is cold, however. But the tick has disappeared when warm, so I'll take that as a good sign for things to come. Definitely worth the 89 bucks if I don't say so myself!

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:53 pm

Drove down the street to the local quickie mart this morning to grab a cup of coffee... The car has been sitting for a while, and was 38 degrees when I fired it up. Still have a slight amount of ticking at cold, but it doesn't take long for it to go away. So that's one issue knocked out, now I just have to sit back and wait for something else to break.

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:45 pm

Glad it is better and nothing major! This should be a point of reference for others if they too have a symptom like that.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:12 pm

Crap! I got all happy about the car too soon... Started it up yesterday morning after work, and tick tick tick tick peck peck peck peck.... The temp was in the 30's, colder than it has been since I had the service done. It didn't make much noise when the temps were in the 50's and the engine was cold. It still quiets down once warmed to operating temperature.Which I still think it was a good idea to have the engine decarboned, it significantly helped performance and smoothness, still runs a lot better than it did. But, back to the ol' drawing board for the ticking, I guess...Sheesh, if it weren't for my car, the Problems & Warranty Issues forum would probably lie dormant.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:07 pm

Started the Vibe up this morning and the tick morphed into a full-fleged knock. Even though I had started it up and ran it for a few minutes prior to taking off, it still REALLY sounded horrible.Called the dealer, and I'll be dropping it off tonight for them to keep and check out in the morning after it has been sitting... Going to have to pick up a rental, hopefully if they find something jacked up with that "bulletproof" Toyota powertrain, the rental and repairs would be covered under the extended warranty... We shall see, I sure don't want to have to pay for any major repairs right now...Wish me luck!I love my Vibe, but becoming ever so disappointed...

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:06 pm

Yeah, I've considered trading. Not the wisest move for me from a financial standpoint at the moment, however. I'll just have to wait and see what happens. Hopefully I'll have an answer sometime in the morning. I too hope it is nothing major, but if it is, I'm sure the warranty will cover most if not all of it - so let whatever will happen happen.

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:56 pm

CP you have a great attitude about all of this! If you did not have bad luck, you would have none at all!Hoping for the best...

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:30 pm

Quote, originally posted by MiVibe-ToolGuy Â»CP you have a great attitude about all of this!Thank ya! I try my best to not let things like this get to me too much, past experience has shown that getting worked up over this stuff only makes matters worse. Even though I love my baby, a part of me acknowledges the fact that it's just a mere transportation appliance, and things are going to break on it occasionally. It's a bit inconvenient, but at least I have a set of wheels to get me around in the meantime ('04 Grand Am) so things could be worse.Quote Â»If you did not have bad luck, you would have none at all!I couldn't have said it better myself. I really don't know how, but I seem to have inherited all this bad luck from my dad's side of the family. No matter how much we baby our cars or maintain them to the point where many would probably consider them overmaintained, we still get pooped on quite a bit... lol!Quote Â»Hoping for the best... As am I... The worst part is sitting around wondering when the call will come in to tell me this is "normal..." Which if it were, I'm sure more folks around here would be complaining! We shall see...

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:58 pm

Another bright side is you are almost at 1,000 posts!!!! Reply to this and you will be that much closer! Celebrate the little mile stones! Yipeeee!!!!!!

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:23 am

LOL! Took me long enough. No good news to report... I was relying on a call from the dealer to wake me up this afternoon (working nights really has its disadvantages!) but ended up waking up and seeing 20 'till 5 on the clock... Not good, I'm 20 minutes away from the dealer, plus I still needed to fill their Grand Am up with gas. They didn't hear the knock this morning, and let it sit all day. I don't know if it was a miscommunication or what, but they weren't under the assumption that they actually needed to drive the car... Uh yeah, fire it up and hit the road and it should knock for you under acceleration if it is cold... They took it out and drove it for a minute, but called me back a few minutes later saying they didn't hear anything. Of course not, it's about 50 out there right now. I'll hear the knock in the morning after work when it is below 40 or so, but it isn't as pronounced in the evening when I'm heading to work and it is warmer.They did place a call to GM technical assistance today... Only thing that came up were some cases where this engine would knock all the time, cold or warm. The tech support folks also questioned what weight oil I've been using. The guys at the dealer know I bring in my own stuff when I take it in for oil changes, and weren't sure what I've been using. Every oil change I've done (or had the dealer do) I used 4 qts. of Pennzoil 5W30. They did screw up on the oil change prior to the most recent one and used their own stuff (and also did this a couple times in the past but I let it slide) I would assume whatever they used was 5W30 as well...Such is life... I'll probably have their Grand Am back to them tomorrow and have to pay $60 for the rental and pay who knows how much for them to look at the Vibe.... I dunno, maybe I'm smokin' crack. If anyone wants any, let me know - I hear it's good stuff. (removed)!

sidewinder · Post by **sidewinder** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:32 am

Crap. I was hoping you would get the news of what the problems is. And speaking of crap, tell them to get it out of their ears. Too bad the weather isn't cold enough for them to find it. Can't wait to find out what the problem is.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:20 pm

Yeah, pretty crappy. Somewhat chilly and very windy here tonight, it's in the 30's with a bit of a wind chill... So I may just ride down to the dealer here in a couple of hours and be there before they get a chance to start the car and try to point out the noise to them...

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:13 pm

Wow! Still as mystery... The only thing I can say is next time it does it and if you are close to the dlr, drive right to the dlr, do not shut off the car and grab a Serv. Advisor to listen. At least you did the decarb, the dlr did it so they know it has been done and can rule it out if you come back in the future, they will probably be more willing to work with you then too.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:15 pm

Woo hoo - I reached "god like" status with this post. Drove down there this morning and got there right as soon as they opened. Had the service manager hop in the car and fired it up... knock knock knock.... Drove it down the road, and he clearly heard the knocking as I accelerated. Went about 1/2 mile, and he had me turn around and go back to the shop before the engine warmed up too much so he could have his engine guru have a listen...So at least he heard the noise - a good start, I suppose...

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:32 pm

See if it were not for your Vibe issues, you would not have achieved God Like Status... Kidding... Good that the dlr heard it, step in the right direction. It will pay off I feel in the end.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:07 pm

lol! I need a whole forum dedicated to my car... "What's broken on the Colonel's Vibe this week?" It's been such a good car until the last few months, I'm hoping we're just going through a rough patch...Anywho, I do think it was well worth the trip out there this morning. Hard to attempt to resolve an issue if you can't duplicate it, or know what you're looking for in the first place. I'm in the IT indistry, and trying to solve problems is what I do for a living - I know first hand what it's like to not be able to duplicate a customer's concern... If you can't duplicate it, no point in trying to figure it out! It bugs me when the thing leaves the shop with "no problems found" but OTOH, I do see where they are coming from.Now I'm sitting around wondering how long I'll be without my baby and what they'll need to do to her. I'm hoping GM just tells 'em to drop in a new engine, that way I know I'm good for at least another 40K. hehehe

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:37 pm

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic Â»Woo hoo - I reached "god like" status with this post. congrats ColonelGod, or is it god of panic?With your new found powers you need to cast a miracle on your car and get rid of all those troubles.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:49 pm

Alapeanutbutterandjellysandwich! I rid thee almighty Vibe of its newfound quirkiness!

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:05 am

Just when I thought we may be getting somewhere.... Called the shop for an update, after I left, they weren't able to hear the knock. The service manager mentioned something about the possibility of a "purge valve" of some description that was mentioned in a TSB, but he wasn't sure that was the problem or not. Huh? Also, apparently there's a TSB about ticking lifters when cold, but in the bulletin GM states that condition is "normal."He said he started up an '05 on the lot and it was a bit noisy as well, but I don't know about that... Yeah, the engine has always been noisy, but I'm not sure he was hearing the *same* noise that I have in that '05.They're keeping it another night to check it out in the morning. I became a little concerned about cost, especially with the rental costing $30/day if the repair isn't covered, but he said he would take care of me.So at this point, I'm almost certain this won't be resolved any time soon. *cry*

sidewinder · Post by **sidewinder** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:38 am

Maybe they will be able to find the problem when the part making the noise is hanging out through a hole in the engine block. I will send you some really cold weather as if cold temps make it worse it has been in the low teens here every day for the last couple of weeks. I was planning on keeping this car forever but now maybe I should get rid of it before it starts to fall apart.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:48 pm

LOL! That may be what it takes to figure out the problem. Hey guys, whaddya think of my new HOOD ORNAMENT? lmaoMy experiences don't seem to jive with the majority here, so unless you have a car as flaky as mine, you could very well be ok for many more years. If you do have problems, I feel for ya, I know exactly where you're at.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:31 pm

Well, getting ready to go pick her up... Only thing the service manager could suggest is to keep driving it. If it continues to knock but not getting worse, there's a good chance that this is "normal" like GM was telling them. But if it gets worse, bring it back. He said they wouldn't want to do any hefty work to the car until they can tell for sure where to look for the problem. Which I can sorta see where they're coming from. Back to the ol' drawing board once again! Just have to drive it now, still have tons of warranty left so I guess I won't worry too much about it.Update: Here's the official diagnosis:Quote Â»Cold started vehicle on 4 occasions - knocking sound possibly from valve train. Compared to other lot vehicle and noise was similar. Cold weather is probalby causing oil to thicken and lifters are not priming as quickly. Customer agrees to drive to see if noise worsens.I wonder if changing to a different oil would help? Would I better off with some sort of synthetic? And if so, any negative effects from running a car for almost 40K on dino-juice, then switching to synthetic? Grasping at straws here.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:39 pm

Two mornings of starting the car up when the temp is in the upper teens/low 20's... ugh! Sounding really bad these days! Gonna be interesting to see if it makes it through the winter without blowing up... I'm hoping (sounds sick, I know) that it gets much worse, so I'll stand a better chance of getting the stupid thing fixed.

bullwinkle727 · Post by **bullwinkle727** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:14 am

I know I'm coming in late on this, but has anyone tried a different oil filter-you may be having an oil drainback problem, causing low oil pressure on a cold start. Another scarier possibility could be loose piston wristpins-a lot of GM engines are infamous for noisy cold starts that quiet down as they warm up.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:46 am

Quote, originally posted by bullwinkle727 Â»a lot of GM engines are infamous for noisy cold starts that quiet down as they warm up.It's a Toyota engine.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:51 am

That's the crappy part... I feel that the "cold start knock" phenomenon that is so common with many modern GM engines has made the dealer not want to go any further with this issue...They seem to be assuming that just because so many other GM engines knock like a beast when cold, that it isn't an issue if my car is doing it. Service manager went so far as to say "My truck does that!" So with GM telling everybody "that's normal" when their engine knocks, I will probably never be able to get this resolved. Shame on you GM, and shame on you Toyota as well - I'm not too happy with either party at the moment. But AFAIK, nobody here seems to have any nasty knocking with theirs when cold. Something has to be going on with my engine in particular, or we have a bunch of Vibe owners not paying attention to the horrid sounds their engines make when cold. And as far as oil filters go, I've always used AC Delco filters...The knock isn't getting any better, that's for sure. Can't wait to hear it in the morning, should be around 10 degrees F out there.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:16 am

I wouldn't rule out the valve inspection/adjustment that's due at 60K on this thing (have 40K on it now.) Could be part of the problem. I tried to get some insight from the genuises at the Toyota dealership, but they blew me off, telling me they never do any adjustments to the valves in this engine. The knock is pretty loud... It used to be a bit of a tick, but now that the weather is colder, it's became a full fleged knock. Not so much there at idle, although it is still louder than what it used to be (and much louder than I think it should be.) But it is really pronounced when putting a bit of a load on the engine - like when accelerating. After several minutes, the noise disappears, leaving nothing but the normal clickety-clickety-clack that these engines make at idle.Tried to get a good recording of it this morning when I started it up @ 10 degrees, but it didn't turn out so well. I'll give it another shot in the morning and see how that turns out, if it's clear I'll post it for you guys to have a listen to. So maybe someone can tell me if I'm smoking crack again (I swear I'm just on the meds the doc prescribes lol!) or if my car seriously has issues. We'll see.Thought about trying some different oil... I've always used 5W30 Pennzoil; I'm probably going to try to get some synthetic in there for the next change that's due in a few hundred miles.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:55 pm

Okay, ladies and gents and whatevah... Here is the first of two official recordings by yours truly.For both events recorded in this one, I simply took my PDA and stuck it on the bottom of the windshield on the outside. Instead of doing two separate MP3's, I just combined the two.From 00:00 to 0:22, this is the Vibe from a cold start. 19 degrees F outside, this was taken at approx 7:00 this morning, the car was sitting for a good 8 hours.At 00:25 in the file, I have a start with the Vibe completely warmed up, the engine was running for almost a full hour prior to this recording.You may need to turn the volume up a bit, I had to turn the mic gain down on the PDA to keep the audio from clipping. The second portion is a bit quieter than the first due to different mic gain settings. But even though, I still think I hear quite a bit of difference. Especially when you lisen to the first couple of seconds after the starter disengages and compare the two.Am I right when I say that my car doesn't sound quite like I think it should when cold? The engine is just rough as hell around the edges when cold. Once it warms up after a bit, it's significantly quieter. I think. To me, it sounds a bit more "normal" after it's been running for a while.I know this engine, even if it doesn't have issues, isn't quiet by any means. But, is this BAD? Or am I just totally wrong? If I am, I guess I can accept that, since I'll be the first to admit I'm not so sure I really know what all goes on deep inside the engine. But I swear it never sounded like this when it was new.

Attached files cold_vs_warm.mp3 (373.6 KB)

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:00 pm

And here is the second. This was taken not too long after the first section of the last clip I posted.Hood is open, and I'm holding the PDA right smack above the engine. Tried to give it a bit of gas by tweaking the throttle thingy, so that's obviously why the revs aren't so smooth. I dunno. Note to GM, I know you're reading this: I didn't rev the thing over 3K right after that cold start. Sounds like I was giving it much more hell than I actually was.I'm going to go to the dealer and see if they'll give me the keys to an '05 for comparison. Those Vibes oughta be good and cold, they have had the same three on the lot for the last few months. I need to hear this on another car to really tell what's going on.

Attached files cold_closeup.mp3 (164.7 KB)

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:36 pm

CP that to me does not sound normal... It has been single digits here probably much like you and I know when mine is started in the morning or been sitting all night, it does not chatter like that. Yikes, that sounds horrible like some old engine with lots of miles! I will try to get mine at very cold start up one day.Considering it will cold idle at above 1K RPM what you did by taking it almost up to 3K RPM is not a huge difference more to me at least.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:45 pm

Whew... Glad I'm not just hearing things. I feel the need to arrange some transportation and just have the dealer keep the thing until they know for sure what's going on with it... I sure hope that they don't blow me off with the typical GM "piston slap" or "cold start knock" excuse.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:57 am

I dunno man...sounds normal to me!At least sounds like MY engine does...

millster · Post by **millster** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:45 pm

Yours is an '03, right ColonelPanic? The reason I ask is that mine had started chattering quite a lot on cold starts (sounded like a small diesel) but was nowhere near as bad. I'm just wondering how close the two are to the same date of manufacture.I'll be honest, that doesn't sound right to me. That's an aweful lot of noise. As I say, mine was chattery but that's pretty bad.One thing I would like to mention before you get the synthetic is that mine actually got noisier when I started running synthetic in it regularly.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:21 pm

Yeah, it's a 2003... Build date of 11/2002. When was yours made, and how many miles did you have on it?So, the synthetic made it louder? I'm wondering if I shouldn't go that route.