Wrong Hotchkis?

[jetboy]

I just completed a Hotchkis spring install last night. After taking it for a test drive I noticed a clank comming from the rear which I thought must be the spare tire because I didn't complete the install of the plastic floor pieces. During todays errends (car all together ) I kept hearing the clanking along with a squeaking. I went to check the problem and you would'nt believe what I found. When the wheel is in it's full down travel (car on stands) , there is total slop in the spring. I should have gotten a clue when it didnt even take a spring compressor to mount them, just some heavy downward force on the hat and I was able to tighten the securing bolt. With this condition whenever the wheel is unweighted the spring reposition itself, and who knows where the rubber seat ends up each time. I'm guessing the I received corolla springs instead of vibes. The box did say 19402 (matrix springs). Has anyone out there installed hotchkis, and how much compression did it take to install the springs. On mine it was almost none on the rear and very little on the front. -- This is my first lowering job, so I assumed it was just because they were shorter for the front, but after the back ----there is no way this can be right.P.S. I fully checked the install- and it is definitely OK, and I am quite mechanical (but maybe not so thorough in this case).Thanks for reading this lenthly topic.

[ragingfish]

Just a SITD, but did you maybe put the front springs on the rear side and rear springs on the front?

[jetboy]

No- that would be impossible as the diameters are totally different.

[rasermon]

Quote, originally posted by jetboy » Has anyone out there installed hotchkis, and how much compression did it take to install the springs. On mine it was almost none on the rear and very little on the front.Yes. I have installed 3 sets (Hotchkis) for myself and other members.First of all, park your vibe on a level surface and take some measurements from the ground to the wheel well. With Hotchkis you should have between (rear) 26-1/4" - 26-1/2", but make sure that both rear measurements are within 1/4" - 1/2". I found with my installs that most rear springs do not require compression to install, just a firm push and someone to put the nut on. I'm thinking that one of your rear springs is not seated in the grove correctly. The spring must go into the lower spring perch in a special spot so that the spring will move around.

Attached files

[jetboy]

Thanks for the details and even posting that image raserman. The springs are seated corectly and therre is 26.5 on the right and a hair less on the left Maybe 26-3/8. I did call Hotchkis this morning and we checked serial numbers and the springs do apear to be for this car. I did reseat the rubber boots and taped them to the hats with electrical tape as per Hotchki's reps recomendations. This did allow me to get the boots to align while lowering. My BIG concern however is the slop of the spring when unweighted. I just seems too unexact science as to where the top of the spring and it's rubber boot will end up when lowered. It seems as though any large slow bump could top out the strut during recoil and mis-allign the spring and create safety concerns. What have you found when taking the car in for service such as tires, brakes exec? Do you have to specify to the tech to make sure that the boot stays in place when lowering and if not keep raising and lowering until seated correctly. Has anyone tried gluing the boot to the hat with some sort of adhesive ? Maybe I'm just overanxious- please give me your responses to what you and others with these have encountered over the term of their use. On a lighter note- these springs apear to handle incredibly(although the tires only had stock PSI), and the ride is (in my opinion) better than stock (florida roads). Of course this was all found out before I knew what I know now. I plan on racing an autocross on Sat/Sun, but need some reassurance on this or I might resort back to the stocks. I haven't test driven since I reseated the boots- hopefully the noise will be gone. I do feel uncomfortable even driving casually with a spring that seems too short for it's strut. The hotchkis rep did say that the designer of the spring would call tomorrow- I will let you know what he says.Thanks in advance for input,Dave

[rasermon]

I had my Hotchkis springs on the vibe for a 1-1/2 years now and never had a problem with tires, brakes or struts. My only complaint is during our winters where ice and snow gathers between the tire and wheel well. This winter I'm going to spray the wheel wells with WD-40 to help reduce the buildup of ice. I hope it works...

[jetboy]

Thanks again for the reply--However, what I meant by tires and brakes was- If you went to a shop did the tech have a problem with the springs being mis-aligned folowing the lowering of the wheels to the ground.Also my car still rattles, and I can't make out exactly where it's coming from. It sounds like the spare tire is loose (it's not because it's not even in the car) it's a similar sound to the clanking a mini-fridge makes when you cary it. It may be comming from the springs (it does make far less of a clank than when the boots were mis-aligned), or just from another part of the car caused by the chasi being lower than it was. Any sugestions on what it might be?

[rasermon]

Three weeks after my drop I took it in to the dealer for a alignment. I know most of the mechanics and ask one of them to look over my install. He didn't notice any problems and I was a happy camper. Give your springs some time to settle and see if there is less noise within a week or so. The Hotchkis springs has a extra coil to the spring and when under a load the bottom two coils touch together that will make noise. I say 90% of my spring noise left in a couple weeks after the install.

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by rasermon » My only complaint is during our winters where ice and snow gathers between the tire and wheel well. This winter I'm going to spray the wheel wells with WD-40 to help reduce the buildup of ice. I hope it works... on a side note thats a real good idea, I'm gonna try that.

[jetboy]

Rassermon thanks again. I've been killing myself trying to find a way to eliminate the noise. You wouldn't believe how many times I had the struts on and off- I think I can do it in my sleep- or at least I'll be dreaming about it in my sleep. The noise---It's really not that bad, I just thought something might be wrong.

[goodvibe]

Loose sway bar?

[jetboy]

Rassermon was right. The noise is non-existant now. I am now quite confident that the boots will stay in place while driving. As far a servicing, I found that as long as one wheel is lifted at a time the sway bar creates enough pressure to keep the boots seated. However, when both rear wheels are lifted then I will ( as well as have anyone workin on the car) have to be extremely careful to make sure everything stays in alignment and boots seat properly when lowered.Performance evaluation:After a weekend of autocrossing I am really impressed with the performance gain. This airport course is probably closer to a road course than an autocross in that speeds of about 80mph are achieved though certain sections. I reduced my times by nearly 4-5 seconds after the springs as well as a progress bar. With tire pressures of 46psi front, 50psi rear the car actually had slight oversteer (yupp oversteer). My next project will be to try to re-weld the spring perch/supports to try to raise the car about an inch- so it doesn't appear lowered--anyone try this? (I know I'll probably be shuned from this site after that remark)Thanks everyone,Dave

[MadBill]

[QUOTE=jetboy]...My next project will be to try to re-weld the spring perch/supports to try to raise the car about an inch- so it doesn't appear lowered--anyone try this? (I know I'll probably be shuned from this site after that remark)..[QUOTE]Various thicknesses, from 1/4" to 1-1/2", of rubber or plastic spring spacer rings are available. I used them without problems for several yeara on my '70 Z 28, as the '69 HD springs I had installed were too short .

[jetboy]

Thanks Madbill. That sure sounds like an easier route to go. Any idea where I could find those? If not specific to my car any idea what diameters I might need?

[MadBill]

Any auto parts store should have them, jetboy. I got the thinner ones from GM (I think they had 3/8" and 1/2", but I'm not sure they still carry them) and the thicker ones from Canadian Tire (the Pep Boys of the Frozen North) As far as size, you could just measure the diameter of your original springs, or take one of each along for comparison. Also, the spacers have a split (like a giant lock washer) to match the pitch of the coil, so if they're too big (not likely to be too small), you can just trim one end to suit. I had to fit a 1" spacer at the bottom and a 1/2" one at the top for my springs, so to keep them in position during installation, I wired them tightly in place. The Handyman's Secret Weapon (duct tape) would likely work also.BTW, at the rear, there is a 1:1 relationship between spacer thickness and height change, but at the front, a 1" height change might require only ~a 3/4" spacer. Good luck!

[jetboy]

Man Madbill- you are a welath of knowledge! Thanks for all the details. I'll check them out tomorrow.Dave

[ragingfish]

Pardon my confusion...But why would you put in lowering springs just to raise the car back up?I'm confused...

[jetboy]

Ragingfish,I installed the springs solely for the performance gain of stiffining the suspension. Unfortunately, being that the Vibe isn't probably the first car the aftermarket companies think of when they consider race parts a performance spring for the vibe that doesn't lower the car doesn't exist. The car being physically lower has a very marginal effect on handling.Madbill,I instaled the spacers on the rear yesterday and the worked great I raised the car about 3/4 to an inch. I cut the 1" spacers in half and used them for the front, and ironicly the car appears to have raised less than 1/2 inch (if any?). Are you sure about the front being non-proportional to the higher side? I will try to install the 1 inch spacers tomorrow and see. If you recall that it is the other way (more spacer-less lift) I'lll try to use 1 1/2 instead. By the way, I did replace the stock rubber wiith the rubber spacers, so I did loose about a 1/8 inch from that.thanks Dave

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by jetboy »Ragingfish,I installed the springs solely for the performance gain of stiffining the suspension. Unfortunately, being that the Vibe isn't probably the first car the aftermarket companies think of when they consider race parts a performance spring for the vibe that doesn't lower the car doesn't exist. The car being physically lower has a very marginal effect on handling.Thanks for clearing that up, makes sense!