There's been an accident. I need your help Genvibe!

[Flip-Side]

I was woke up yesterday morning to my aunt telling me my sister was in a terrible car accident on I-75 in Michigan, 10:00pm Sunday, Dec 15th. She was changing lanes (to the slow lane) because of the bad roads she saw ahead, when she hit "Black Ice" which sent her Oldsmobile Alero spinning. The car came to a stop with her driver-side facing oncoming traffic, stalled, and with no lights. She tried to crank the car, but there was no power to turn it over. Nor could she shift it into neutral so she could push it out of traffic. She was T-Boned by a full size pickup truck because he could not see her since her light were dead. She was hurt pretty bad, but we don't blame the driver. We blame a GM defect, which killed the cars power.Your mission (should you choose to accept it ) is to please tell me any GM Computer/Electrical problems you have seen/heard of and can prove. I have heard of other vehicles shutting down like my sisters, but I don't have any concrete evidence. I will deaply appreciate any help you guys can give me on this.

[NovaResource]

While I'm sincerely sorry about her accident, I don't think there is a GM defect. If the car was not in neutral or park (as you stated) it won't start due to the neutral safety switch.When a car spins it's common for the engine to stall due to the wheels turning one way and the car traveling a different way. It can sometimes lock the trans and stall the engine. Again, very common and not a defect. This could be why she couldn't shift into neutral.Again, I'm sorry about what happened. I pray for her healing and that her injuries are not serious, however it was just an unfortunate accident. It's not anyones fault or defect.

[vibegirl]

Sorry to hear about that. I hope she is OK.

[slbpsi63]

I wish her a speedy recovery. Best wishes.

[d_m_kolb]

I'm very sorry to hear about your sister and I hate to hear when anyone gets hurt but I don't feel it's a GM defect either.The first thing I would look at would be to check and see if the battery is no good. The second would be to see if the alternator was actually making power to recharge the battery. Auto zone will do both of these tests for free but it sounds like the car wont make it there. You can remove the battery and the alternator and take them to autozone and they can test them both for you out of the vehicle. The car being dead but was just running makes me think the battery is bad and the alternator was keeping the car running but without looking at the car no one can be sure.Nova pointed out another safty feature of if the cars in in reverse or drive it wont turn over. This is true.

[JayAyeEm]

Also sorry about your Sister's accident and hope she recovers quickly and fully.I have to echo the sentiment of previous posters. Cars with Automatic transmissions are harder to stall than ones with standard, but the flip side to that is they have 'safety' features that make them harder to restart in an emergency. If the injuries resulted from properly functioning safety features that are mandated by the government, then I hope that GM can not be held liable.

[Flip-Side]

quote:While I'm sincerely sorry about her accident, I don't think there is a GM defect. If the car was not in neutral or park (as you stated) it won't start due to the neutral safety switch.Yes, I totally agree with you Nova. Problem is that the battery was new and didn't supply power following her spin. Her lights were the reason of concern. It was night time and her lights went out when she stopped. That is NOT normal even if the battery was low. I know that the car cuts the starter when in any gear other than neutral, so you are correct.I appreciate all the responses I recieve.

[NovaResource]

quote:Problem is that the battery was new and didn't supply power following her spin. Her lights were the reason of concern. It was night time and her lights went out when she stopped. That is NOT normal even if the battery was low.That's true, the lights shouldn't have gone out unless she has automatic lights like our Vibes do. When the engine shuts off, the lights go out. If that's the case, when her engine stalled, the auto lights lost the signal that the engine is running and turned out the lights. That's the normal operation. Unless she turned the manual switch on, the lights would be out. Again, not a design flaw. This could be another good reason to disable the DRL/auto-headlights.You also said the battery was new. Was it the original battery (the car is also new) or a replacement battery? If the battery was bad, it's still not GM's fault or design flaw, just a defective battery.

[MA-VIBE-FAN]

quote:While I'm sincerely sorry about her accident, I don't think there is a GM defect. If the car was not in neutral or park (as you stated) it won't start due to the neutral safety switch.Yes, I totally agree with you Nova. Problem is that the battery was new and didn't supply power following her spin. Her lights were the reason of concern. It was night time and her lights went out when she stopped. That is NOT normal even if the battery was low. I know that the car cuts the starter when in any gear other than neutral, so you are correct.I appreciate all the responses I recieve.Will add your sister to our thoughts as our family attends mass this season. You mention the Battery was new (going to asume that the car wasn't new). I have seen cars were the battery shifted and grounded out or dameged wires because it was not tightened down properly or was the incorrect replacement size. A spin could do this, and it would match the fact pattern you have set out, no lights=no power. As I think, the are now batteries that have security sysems built in, if hers was one this also could be a cause.Again hope you sister recovers without problem.

[JayAyeEm]

quote:That's true, the lights shouldn't have gone out unless she has automatic lights like our Vibes do. Now this is an interesting point. Several of the 2002 cars I rented while traveling for work and auto headlights that stayed on for awhile (2 minutes maybe) after you turned of the car. I don't know if they would do the same if the car stalled, though. I found the delay annoying, since it can be hard to tell if you turned off the lights or not in an unfamiliar car. It is possible that a similar design could been safer for Flip-Sides's sister. Not sure if you could make a case against the auto mare about it, though.

[Flip-Side]

quote:That's true, the lights shouldn't have gone out unless she has automatic lights like our Vibes do. When the engine shuts off, the lights go out. If that's the case, when her engine stalled, the auto lights lost the signal that the engine is running and turned out the lights. Yes, her car has twilight sentinel, but she had it OFF with her light switch in the ON position. I know because that is the first thing the Police looked at at the scene. The battery was replaced less than a year ago with another AC Delco at the dealer with a 3-year guarantee. From what you have told me, I will be taking it in to have it tested so I'll have evidence to rule it out. Thanx

[Flip-Side]

My sister thanks you all for your blessings.

[NovaResource]

How is she? Nothing too serious I hope.About the battery, what MA-VIBE-FAN said could be true. It's possible that the battery was not replaced and secured correctly.

[Frosty]

So sorry about your sister. Must be tough on your family so close to Christmas.quote:She tried to crank the car, but there was no power to turn it over. Nor could she shift it into neutral so she could push it out of traffic. Interesting scenario here. Sorry I came in so late. Was she back in park trying to start the car or was she still in Drive? Was the Tranny Jammed? Have I missed something? (probably )quote:The car came to a stop with her driver-side facing oncoming traffic, stalled, and with no lights. I have been liking those auto headlights, this stalling eventuality never occured to me. 4 way flashers may have been a help here, unless everything was dead. Could she have got the 4 ways on? I imagine on your I-75 at any hour the traffic volume would have only given her seconds to do anything, let alone get the h*** away from the car. Now you got us thinking about you guys, you have to update us on her condition and what the exam of her electical system shows. Take Care, Ken.

[rasermon]

Sorry about your Sister's accident and hope she recovers soon for the holidays.

[Frosty]

quote:Several of the 2002 cars I rented while traveling for work and auto headlights that stayed on for awhile (2 minutes maybe) after you turned of the car. I found the delay annoying, since it can be hard to tell if you turned off the lights or not in an unfamiliar carThe Lincoln I used recently has an adjustable auto headlight so you can set it to turn off as quickly as 15 seconds or so. This would be handy if you had to navigate the path to your door in the dark, you could time it to your liking if it was adjustable.

[Shadow Realm]

I'm very sorry to hear about your sister. I wish her a speedy recovery. MY prayers go out to you and your family. Please post back your results on the problems that you occured. Maybe we can learn from this terrible thing that happened.Best wishes and hurried recovery, My heart goes out to you and your family

[Flip-Side]

Well, she's coming home from the hospital today. Turns out the damage done was not as bad as the accident would let on. Several broken ribs, a punctured lung, some huge bruises, and some minor cuts. The firefighters that pried her out said that the Carhart coat she was wearing acted as her armor, stoping shrapnel, glass, and the drivers door from slicing her up. I am going to buy stock in Carhart very soon. Thank you all! She is recovering well.

[Frosty]

Wow! Glad to hear she will be ok. She definitely had a tough scrape, lucky lady....

[NovaResource]

That's great news!

[MA-VIBE-FAN]

Good news on your sister's condition. I have been reading lately about side impact accidents, she is quite lucky not to suffer any head injuries. Now that she is on the way home, the next issue to tackle will be her reaction to headlights at night. I know from personal experience it could take awhile until she will be comfortable in a car at night. Again, glad she is getting well, and Happy Holidays.

[Triton]

Being from Michigan also I know how the roads can get here. Very scary somtimes to drive on the highways here.I'm sorry I didn't get a reply to you sooner to tell you that I hope everything will be ok. It looks like it will with her coming home so quickly. That is really good to hear.I wish her the best in her recovery and God bless you and your family this holiday season. It looks like He has been watching out for you already.

[mu_ohio]

I was thinking about the auto headlights and if I remember correctly, even if my Vibe stalls, the key is still in the on position and the lights stay on. At the vary least my DRLs stay on when the key is in the On position.

[Stang2Vibe]

I am also very sorry to hear of your sister's accident and am glad for you and your family that she has come home and is recovering. I also apologize for getting to read this post so late--college finals and all have kept me away from the forum for a while.This matter concerns me personally, also. My mom has a '99 Olds Alero 4 door. I think that the automatic headlights came standard on all Alero's, but I'm not sure. The auto headlights, once turned on, stay on until daylight is detected (but the DRL's would be on unless the handbrake was applied). The lights will stay on, even with the car stalled, as long as the key is left on. If the entire car lost power after the spin, that is quite mysterious, especially if there was no collision with anything until the truck hit her. That would be the only way I can think of for the lights to be off. Also, if the battery was too low or the alternator was not charging, the car would also not be running properly. I have had my battery die due to a failed alternator on a late model GM vehicle (my 1994 Grand Prix and my sister's '96 Monte Carlo). First let me explain what the dealer told me. The car's electrical system is much different than they used to be years ago. We no longer have generators on the cars. So if an alternator fails to charge properly, the car will not be able to run on the power of the battery alone for very long--the battery must maintain most of its charge and the alternator must supply at least as much current as is being drawn for the car to be drivable. When the battery gets too low and the alternator isn't charging properly, the headlights begin to dim, the radio gradually grows quieter and quieter, the interior lights dim then will go out, and since the transmission is electronic, the car will not shift gears. Then, since the coil needs a lot of energy to make the spark plugs fire and the computer needs electricty to operate the coil, the engine will start running rough, will chug and possibly backfire, then will stall. Then when you try to restart, you get a "click" and that is all. I had this happen to me twice and to my sister once exactly as I describe it. For this reason, I don't think there was any problem with your sister's alternator or battery that was the fault of the manufacturer, but a very strage circumstance has occured. Somehow, the car lost power after the stall if the headlights were manually put in the ON postion. As long as there is battery power, the headlights should have come on. It is strange that the battery was working fine one minute, then a few seconds later, is completely dead. My guess would be that the battery somehow got disconnected somewhere when the car went out of control but before she was hit by the truck. Very strange indeed.My sincerest hopes and prayers for your sister's quick and complete recovery. Maybe after I tell my mom of this accident, she will more strongly consider trading in the Alero for a new AWD Vibe because I know she was looking at my Vibe and said she'd be interested in one of the AWD ones.

[Flip-Side]

quote:My guess would be that the battery somehow got disconnected somewhere when the car went out of control but before she was hit by the truck. Very strange indeed.Exactly what my first thought was. But when the lights went out, and she couldn't start the car, she honked her horn several times before she was hit. So the car still had power, it was just cutoff to the light system....very weird...

[Stang2Vibe]

Hmm... now you've really got me stumped. If the horn worked, then the car, or at least certain parts of it, had power. Sounds like a one in a million freak malfunction either in the headlight controls/electric circuitry or in the car's circuitry in general. GM went with a new wiring system that the salesmen were touting when my mom was first looking to buy her Alero. They were saying that since automotive electronics were becoming so complicated, so was the wiring. To reduce repair time (and thus warranty related corporate expenses), GM was supposedly reducing the number of wiring harnesses to a total of 3 on the Alero, beginning on the '99 model (which I think is the first year for it). So far, the only problem my mom had with her car was very poor radio reception when she first got it. They replaced the radio 3 times and the cd changer in the trunk twice before the problem was solved. Other than that, no trouble, and she drives it on the highway almost daily.On another note, my sister's boyfriend's dad (if you followed that one) also has a 2 door '99 Alero that he drives daily for work and puts a lot of mileage on. About a year and a half ago, he had an epeleptic seizure while driving on the highway (his first one for about 30 years, just happened suddenly and for no reason). It was later determined that he was going about 65 mph when it happened. He unconsciously drifted to the right of the highway, hit the guardrail, and bouced back toward the left and hit the Jersey barriers in the middle of the highway. He ping-ponged back and forth a few times like that until the car finally crashed into the guardrail on the right side of the road and stopped. The car was pretty smashed up, but other than some bumps and bruises, thankfully he was fine. The insurance company decided to pay to fix the car, and he still drives it today. No electrical problems for his car, either, to the best of my knowlege. I guess your sister's electrical malfunction must have been a rare freaky thing. Again, I wish the best for her complete recovery and a happy holiday season to you and your family.

[Flip-Side]

Thanks for the information Stang. I've checked on the wiring harnesses you have talked about and they seem to be a commonly replaced part on the 01 Alero. Actually too common. I checked with National Highway Safety and it looks like there are quite a lot of investigations into the Aleros electrical components. I can't really say much more, but it looks pretty clear now that the car is defective.

[ragingfish]

I still don't necessarily agree that it was a car defect.Correct me if i'm wrong anyone, but designed into the car is a safety feature that cuts power off in the event of a total loss of contro. When my sunfire lost control, as soon as the engine stalled and the airbags went off, everything was dead. Horn, radio, lights, door locks, everything. Granted, I had impact, which may have shook lose the battery, but I''m unsure. I asked the dealer, and he said regardless, it might have been a safety cut off designed to keep fires from starting in the event of a loss of control...Why didn't your sister abandon the car and run to the side of the road? I know at the time that my not have seemed reasonable, but when I totalled my car, as soon as I came to rest, I ran like hell to the shoulder just in case there was a fire or anything...maybe it's just insitinctive to me...But dude...while I totally understand your streneous situation and I can understand how you want to find the car at fault (I did too when I lost control), sometimes, things just happen in an unfortunate chain of events...I do ask that you get the full results of the investigation before blaming this incident on GM. I'm not saying it's not their fault, but I'm not saying it is either...I'm saying let's see what the final tests show...

[Stang2Vibe]

quote:Correct me if i'm wrong anyone, but designed into the car is a safety feature that cuts power off in the event of a total loss of contro. I have never heard of such a feature, but the explanation that you give lead me to believe that maybe some cars now have this cutoff feature. However, with how the accident was described, I don't think this is possible since she never made contact with anything until the truck plowed into her.As for the car being defective, to me the jury is still out on this one. Maybe, maybe not. A better investigation would have to be conducted in order to tell.

[ragingfish]

quote:As for the car being defective, to me the jury is still out on this one. Maybe, maybe not. A better investigation would have to be conducted in order to tell.I can tell you this much...something is screwy with those alero's...EVERY ONE i ever saw on the road has the right taillight out...it's eerie..

[Stang2Vibe]

Psst...(Stang2Vibe whispers to ragingfish) it's the sign of a secret conspiracy group...they all drive Aleros and have that taillight out!

[ragingfish]

Coooouuuullllddd beeeee!