900th dimming mirror question post

[jeffgtx]

This is my first post, and i apologize PROFUSELY if this is already here, but i looked high and low at all the mirror posts and did not find this answer.For the record, i am 1 week into my vibe ownership experience and happy as all heck. wanted one for 2 years. you wont believe me, but i traded in a cadillac CTS-V for the vibe... and yes, less is MORE.now my questions:for those of us without the moon and tunes package, we have a mirror that is powered for the reading lamps. most of the posts regarding this subject mention having to wire up an electrochromatic (dimming) mirror. however, the mirror with reading lamps, is already wired. is there a diming mirror with compass that has the same connector for the wiriging as the wiring that comes to power the reading lamps? not the connector to mount it, but the connector to accept the wire?I hope i am making myself clear. if not, let me know, and if i missed where the answer is, please gently point me there!thanks,Jeff

[Viben' round]

ok so you traded in a 4 door Vette clothed as a Cadilac, for a Vibe?

[futseal04]

Quote, originally posted by jeffgtx »For the record, i am 1 week into my vibe ownership experience and happy as all heck. wanted one for 2 years. you wont believe me, but i traded in a cadillac CTS-V for the vibe... and yes, less is MORE.Too bad you didn't talk to me......I would have traded my Vibe for your CTS-V.......I have wanted one since before they came out.

[jeffgtx]

I am contacing mike, but i think his post (which i did read before i posted) is different as i do not think those of us without moon n tunes need to wire the mirror. we have wiring to the reading lamps.And as for the CTS, we all hjave different tastes. i am not basher or negative person, and i am a loyal GM customer nad happy to see them pushing the envelope performacne wise, but the V did not meet my expectations at all from what i felt was promised.the vibe is a much more fun car to drive for me even without S/C, which is on my shopping list!

[omarq]

90% of the mirrors out there use a 7pin connector. I'm assuming the factory one does too.There are two major manufacturers of mirrors out there. Gentex and Donnelley. The Gentex mirror almost always have the power on the same pins regardless of pin features. so if your factory one is powered Gentex, and the one you are putting in is Gentex, then it should plug right in.The Donnelly power pins are not on the same pins as the Gentex.There is one gotcha.. lets say your factory mirror lights the lights when you open a door.. this requires unswitched battery power to your mirror. You do not want unswitched battery power to an auto-dim mirror (unless it too has map lights) since you dont what the mirror drawing current when the car is not on.Compare the pinouts of the two mirrors. That's the bottom line. I've spent alot of time looking at different mirrors for our cars.. so feel free to ask me... The connector is usually that 7pin inline connector, and it will plug right in. But you do need to know what wires are for what before you do so otherwise, you might have a problem.

[ragingfish]

omarq pretty much summed it up. Not having a stock wire for the reading lamps, I couldn't tell you if the connectors are interchangeable. If not, it's very easy to wire anyway!

[jeffgtx]

could you help if i took a picture?

[ColonelPanic]

Quote, originally posted by omarq »You do not want unswitched battery power to an auto-dim mirror (unless it too has map lights) since you dont what the mirror drawing current when the car is not on.That's the one thing I was thinking about... I'm assuming that the power to the map lights on the stock mirror will be hot at all times. If so, then the auto-dim mirror will be on all the time.I can't imagine these things draw *that* much current, but it could be enough to kill the battery after a while. Probably would be best to find a switched source to wire the mirror into, or just remember to turn it off every time.

[omarq]

Who makes the factory auto-dim mirror? What does it say on the back of it?Who makes the mirror you want to put in? Where are you getting it?One more ? Does anyone out there have a vibe service manual.. i have one for the matrix and it is by far the most cryptic manual I have ever owned. the nissan and Honda ones I own are so much clearer to understand. You'd figure that there might be a picture of the harness and then a list of the signal descriptions. As far as I can tell there doesn't seem to be anything like that. Or did I miss something?Omar

[jeffgtx]

bringing my first post back to life. retro is all the rage these days anyway...so while at the toyota dealer today for my other project (see annoying thread that wont die in electrical) i inquired about a dimming mirror. its was $230 but the lady said there was a note:Interferes with side curtain airbags.what do you suppose that is all about?after i am done with my current project, i want a dimming mirror, and as posted, i don't have moon n tunes.Jeff

[tnpartsguy]

Quote, originally posted by jeffgtx »bringing my first post back to life. retro is all the rage these days anyway...so while at the toyota dealer today for my other project (see annoying thread that wont die in electrical) i inquired about a dimming mirror. its was $230 but the lady said there was a note:Interferes with side curtain airbags.what do you suppose that is all about?after i am done with my current project, i want a dimming mirror, and as posted, i don't have moon n tunes.JeffBecause it has extra wiring, it probably won't break away properly when the bags go off. Everything in todays cars is designed to not hurt you in a crash. Buick's Park Avenue Ultra (Probably the Bonneville had it too) has a sunroof designed to blow out in a wreck to help dissapate the overpressure on your ears when the airbags go off......

[jeffgtx]

so if i have the irror with reading lights that already has wiring going to it, my only worry, again, is the constant power right?which i am not sur is aproblem. i have left teh reading lamps on before and they seems to go off after some time and the car starts fine the next day.i am going to check the wiring and then if its a fit, go for it.

[Jahntassa]

If you have the mirror with the lights, I think you need switched power. Constant should already be there.

[NCVIBEOWNER]

If you go to http://www.mitocorp.com and click on "products" then "autodimming mirrors" Then "installation instructions" the instructions will tell you how to install the map lights either using power when the doors are opened or hot wired at all times. The compas and Electorchromatic diming are wired separatly to the ingnition switched circuit.

[NCVIBEOWNER]

One thing I forgot to mention, If youhave the map lights on the door light circuit, you also have the option of turning them on with the doors closed. You have to be careful to make sure the switches on the mirror are turned off when you exit the vehicle. Otherwise the lights will remain on when the doors are closed after you leave the car. This could discharge the battery if not discovered soon enough.

[jeffgtx]

i dont want to do any wiring. i want plug n playdo i have an option?i feel like if i plug it in to my existing connector, which is no switched, i understand, will the dimming mirror work?i will worry about run down. i will post a pic tonight.

[ragingfish]

I highly doubt you will find an autodim mirror that's "plug and play." Every manufacturer wires their mirrors differently...and every car is itself wired differently.

[jeffgtx]

so here is what i have. 1x7 connector with wires running to 1 and 6 (or 2 and 7 if i have it backwards).looks like the same connector from your post mike, but you wired 1 and 2 correct?so i have to move one wire in the connector and then determine the risk of running unswitched power to it?am i right?

Attached files

[ragingfish]

Unfortunately, I couldn't tell you.I've long sinced sold that mirror and have a different one that uses an entirely different harness.

[jeffgtx]

what is that, the saturn sky?anybody have the toyota mirror?

[Jahntassa]

It's not going to be plug and play no matter what mirror you get, simply because the Vibe wasn't wired with an auto-dim in mind.. You probably won't match up the connectors, and even if you did..it'd be missing wiring that the mirror needed..

[jeffgtx]

the dealer here has the toyota mirror with compass and temp. jsut like the one attached from the toyota website under accessories.seems to me that all i have to do is move th wire from where it is to where mike had it in the picture and i am good.i will try. so far no one has posted a good reason not too.

Attached files

[ragingfish]

First off, for temp you need a temp sensor. You can rewire the stock one, but you can't have it show a temp in both the gauges and the mirror from the single probe. It's a resistor and by splitting the signal, you'll get completely erratic readings in both locations. So you'd need to buy a secondary probe (or give up temps in the gauges) to get it.Quote »i will try. so far no one has posted a good reason not too.We've given you reasons why you can't.It's not just swappable with the stock mirror. As Jahntassa said, the Vibe is not wired for auto dimming capabilities, and certainly not for temp. And I can't say for sure the Toyota mirror doesn't have an external compass either. My aftermarket mirror has compass built in, but with an OEM model, it may not. If it doesn't, you'd need that TOO. And yes, you'd have to wire it.You said you don't want to do any wiring, but I assure you, there is rewiring involved. Could be significant.It's your money.

[jeffgtx]

first of all you ahven't told me what the convertible is!and yes, those are reasons but not facts.i dont care about the temp/compass. i care about a dimming mirror that fits where our mirrors is.i mean you had the mirror, and the pic shows the same conenctor with two wires right? what were those two wires?can you say for certain that my two wires that go to my existing mirror will not power the dimming mirror? i don't think you have, or i have misread.just trying to stay positive.

[ColonelPanic]

If you just need automatic dimming capabilities, I'd say go for something like this... I believe these mirrors are similar to my auto dimming mirror. They should fit just fine... And look a lot similar to those at Toyota.http://www.mitocorp.com/html/n...s.htmYou could (in theory) use your existing wires, but I would be careful... I would assume that the two wires are ground and +12V. On the harness going into the mirror, snip off the plug. Your new mirror should come with a harness that plugs into it; so splice the + 12V and GND leads correctly onto the vehicle's mirror wiring harness.Now, since you said the mirror mounted map lights were being shut off after the car was off, there is a chance that it would kill the mirror's power after 20 minutes or whatever. I'm not sure how that works - whether it senses a draw in current on the circuit, or if it just cuts it off regardless after x minutes. If the later is true, then the mirror should automagically switch off after a while. Or one would think. If it senses current to switch off the lights though, it may not work - I doubt these things draw that much. So the mirror may be on all the time..... I would highly recommend just wiring the mirror in yourself, and not using the existing wiring. It only took a few minutes to wire in my mirror - a bit of time to pull the trim, and set up an Add-A-Circuit to the CIG fuse.

[Jahntassa]

Alright. Here's the deal with the wiring. The factory mirror has two wires.12v constant power (always on)Ground.Dimming mirrors require two, if not three wires to operate.12v constant power (always on)12v ignition power (on with key)groundYou don't have the ignition 'switched' power in that harness. Without that, the mirror will be active all the time which could potentially put a drain on your battery, and shorten the lifespan of the mirror itself.What we're saying is you need to run at least one more wire down to the fusebox to get that switched power. It isn't that hard to do, and prevents issues later down the line.

[ColonelPanic]

My automatic dimming (no other features) mirror only has power/ground.

[jeffgtx]

ok that makes more sense to me.question: if the 12V constant that is going to teh mirror with map lights turns off after 20 minutes (verified that today- multimeter read +12.46V and went tot 0 after 20 minutes), then i can just do 12V constant and GNSD right and the dimming mirror goes off after 20 minutes and everybody wins right?i went to the junkyard (depressing place) and picked up an auto dimming mirror out of a 97+ grand prix that seemed to have caught on fire earlier in its life. it has a different connector, but i snipped that off and took it too. i can't get it to work though. the possibility exists that it doesn't work at all due to the trauma of the car it was on, but i cannot seem to get it to dim. the green LED should be coming on. i thought it was going to be good day solving a big problem with a $6.99 mirror, but apparently not.the funny thing is that the mirror pretty much slides on to hte vibe slot on teh window.guess i might have to take it back if i cannot prove that it works.Jeff

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by jeffgtx »first of all you ahven't told me what the convertible is!Saturn Sky

[ColonelPanic]

How many wires does that mirror have?If you're not getting the LED with power and ground connected, probably is hosed.Cool that the power automatically cuts out after 20 minutes. You have an '05 right? The 03's don't do that, IIRC it was new to either '04 or '05. As long as that feature keeps working, you may be ok. If you find it on for extended periods of time after switching off the car, I'd say go the switched route though. lol!

[jeffgtx]

the solstice and sky are really growing on me...yes i have an '05 and so i think i might be ok, but i am sad that my 6.99 mirror isnt working. i am going to take it to work and see if it works in a friends intrigue.the mirror has three wires. talked to a GP buddy and its GND/PWR/Backup. i guess these mirros must turn off the dimming if you are going backwards so you can see better? not really a problem since it has an AUTP siwtch and you can manuall turn it off. i hope the mirror works tomorrow and i can find a way to work. nice low cost solution.thanks everybody for the tidbits.jeff

[Stang2Vibe]

I don't mean to seem like a total jerk in any way, but I think I'm missing something in all this. Is all this trouble and expense really worth it for just something like an auto-dimming mirror? I mean, what's wrong with the little lever on the bottom of the stock mirror that dims it that has been put on cars for the past 50+ years? If I get a bad glare from someone's headlights behind me, I find that if I just move my head about 2 inches, there is no problem.Can you turn off the auto-dimming feature on those mirrors if you want to? I like to use my mirror to identify the shape of the headlights behind me to make sure that it isn't a cop on the prowl. Identifying a Crown Vic, Impala, or an Intrepid just by the headlights is pretty easy to do in the mirror, but would be significantly more difficult to do if the image in the mirror is dimmed or distorted.

[ColonelPanic]

Yes, an electrochromic mirror is very much worth any effort you put into it, IMHO. I will never own another vehicle that does not have one installed... If the car doesn't come with it standard, you bet I'll be putting an aftermarket one on. Glare is a big issue for me, especially since nobody around here drives cars anymore... They all love their high off the ground trucks and SUV's, which are murder on my eyesight at night. I wish this car had mirrors on the outside that would dim themselves as well...Yes, one could just reach up and flip the little thingy to dim the mirror manually, save yourself a hundred bucks... But I much prefer keeping my hands on the wheel, and not having to break my concentration on the road. Plus, the mirror isn't just normal or dim like the manual types - it varies depending on how bright the lights are from the car behind you, and how close they are to you... I haven't noticed much distortion with mine, either - I can still recognize what's behind me quite clearly.That's just MHO, I simply feel that these are actually pretty darn nifty safety devices. And yes, you can turn them off.

[Stang2Vibe]

I was just wondering. I know that they dim in varying stages depending on the light level of the headlights behind you, but I guess I'd have to try one for myself to see how much difference it makes. When I flip the lever on mine, I tend to get a "double image" of everything in the mirror and it significantly darkens the main image--so much so that it makes ID-ing the cars behind me by their headlights nearly impossible.I suppose that I'm fortunate that I don't have much difficulty with my eyes for night driving. Driving in bright sun is a much bigger problem for me. Anyone make an auto-dimming windshield yet? I guess it's more of a matter of personal preference. I'm used to driving with one hand I guess, so I'm perfectly comfortable with it. I drive with my left hand on the steering wheel and the right on the stick shift for most of my driving. On the highway, the right hand steers the wheel and my left arm rests on the window ledge of the driver's door. Doesn't seem to be much effort on my part to flip the little lever, I can do it without looking at it and I think one half-dead brain cell is the most I need to manipulate my right arm up to the mirror to flip the lever while driving. It's just a personal thing though, I've been blessed with being reasonably ambidexterous so I can be a one man band of sorts if need be. It isn't uncommon for me to drive the car (manual tranny), eat a full meal, and talk on the cell phone all at the same time. I'm not beyond occasionally steering with my knees on the highway, either.

[ColonelPanic]

Yeah, definitely a personal preference thing. The double image thing, I had the same problem. Luckily with the way the auto dimming mirrors work, that isn't a problem anymore.

[Stang2Vibe]

I have the M&T package on my Vibe so there's no power to the mirror area, making this an impractical mod for me anyway. Now I'm getting curious as to how these work. Is there a photosensor on the mirror somewhere? And what does the mirror actually do to give the dimming effect anyway if it doesn't just tilt the mirror like the manual lever does?

[ColonelPanic]

I haven't found much of a good resource on the technical details... So I don't know exactly how they work. The physics of it are beyond me. lol! Pretty interesting process though. In a nutshell, the forward sensor detects darkness which switches it to automatic mode. There is a layer of some sort of electrochromic material somewhere in the mirror. The rearward sensor, when it detcts light from the cars behind you, will apply a current to the electrochromic material, and the material darkens, causing the mirror to dim to the level it deems necessary.http://www.gentex.com/auto_how_nvs_work.htmlSo, no moving parts or anything... Just one piece of glass instead of two like you'd have in a manual mirror. They did have automatic mirrors like those though, mom had one on her '87 Olds Ninety Eight. It actually had a motor that basically flipped it to night mode when someone got in behind you.

[jeffgtx]

in the how to section, ragingfish has posted how to add power to teh dimming mirro if you have M/T. i don;t think you can/want to do it though if you have side curtain airbags. its a great how to post.if you guys are done hijacking my post (kidding) can we get back to why my three wire mirror wont work and auto dimming mirror, once you have it, its hard to lvie without. especiall on 101 with SUV and these FREAKING hondas with poorly installed HID that are practically pointed straight up.

[Kari]

Quote, originally posted by Stang2Vibe »When I flip the lever on mine, I tend to get a "double image" of everything in the mirror and it significantly darkens the main image--so much so that it makes ID-ing the cars behind me by their headlights nearly impossible. The same thing happens to me...that's why I don't use the dimming feature at all. And I'm so used to never using it, that when I get in a vehicle that has the auto-dimming mirror, it kind of messes with my head. I guess I would probably eventually get used to it, but for right now, I just leave mine alone. No one ever understands why I don't dim my mirror, and I could never really explain it other than, "I just can't see with it flipped up." At least I'm not the only one...LOL.Sorry for contributing to the semi-hijack... Though it is at least somewhat on topic...haha.

[jeffgtx]

it works! yay. i will post details in a clean thread.

[Stang2Vibe]

Quote, originally posted by jeffgtx »in the how to section, ragingfish has posted how to add power to teh dimming mirro if you have M/T. i don;t think you can/want to do it though if you have side curtain airbags. its a great how to post.Yeah, I think I read that before. I do have the side airbags in my Vibe, but to my knowledge, Vibes have never yet been produced with "side curtain airbags". Curtain airbags are located in the area above the side windows and deploy downward (like a curtain) to cover the window area in a crash. The Vibe's side airbags are located in the sides of the front seats and deploy forward to protect the front occupants from harm in a side impact. The side airbags in the seats are preferable to the other types according to everything I've ever read about them.(gently relinquishes the steering yoke back to the proper authorities )