cryo treated tranny

Smokin' Rubber · Post by **Smokin' Rubber** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:29 am

Ok so since the stock transmission can only hold about 280 hp I looked into cyro treating the whole transmission and found a place that will do it for $300. The question is would it be worth treating the gearbox and how much would it help the car hold more hp? Would it be able to make 400 hp without shearing the gears?

wicked1981 · Post by **wicked1981** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:33 am

Are you planning of changing the internals also? because I dont think they can handle that much power. Just go get a new GTO 2005 400hp.

Smokin' Rubber · Post by **Smokin' Rubber** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:55 am

GTO is like $30,000 where as buying all the parts to make a 1.8L which is lighter and probably alot faster only costs about $10,000Cryo Treated Tranny ---------------------------------$3006 point ceramic kevlar Clutch ----------------------- $463Lightend Aluminum Flywheel ----------------------- $389255 LPH Fuel Pump---------------------------------- $140525 cc Fuel Injectors--------------------------------- $99Forged Piston Sleeves + Forged Pistons ----------- $849 + (machining engine block a bit for sleeves)Forged Connecting Rods ---------------------------- $748Turbo Kits -------------------------------------------- $3500Installs ----------------------------------------------- $2600Nitrous Injection-------------------------------------- $1000_______________________________________________________Total-------------------------------------------------- $10,088*Edit according to the Pontiac website the GTO starts at $32,000 and the 2004 only has 350 hp which is pretty sad for a 5.7 liter engine if they got another 50 hp for the 2005 (which I would find hard to believe unless they made some significant changes) it would still be alot slower and more expensive.The Vibe weighs 2,780 lbs where as the GTO weighs 3,725lbs and 1,000 lbs makes a huge difference. So with 400+ horsepower the Vibe would haul as$ especially if I took out the back seats and anything else that weighs the car down significantly.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:58 am

still.... i paid $22K for my gt plus another $10K? that's $32K right there! ouch! and forget your warranty if anything goes wrong. i'd be getting myself a wrx sti for that kind of money! warranty w/ anything if it goes belly up! and awd... what's not to love?but since you're sponsored, maybe you can get some of those costs down so it won't be such a huge hole in your pocket.

Smokin' Rubber · Post by **Smokin' Rubber** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:08 am

I didn't pay for my car my parents did so its only $10,000 of of pocket for me much cheaper than buying a new STi or Evo VIII or GTO or whatever else you could think of and my warranty is up January 2006 which is when I am going to mod all teh stuff so there is no loss there TRDI convinced them to give me $800 for parts which isn't too bad but I don't get it till December 30th, I'm wondering tho, most larger companies like GReddy and INJEN sponsor cars but only after they have already been heavily modded, I wonder if they could subsidize me if I pimp it out enough

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:19 am

aww i see. ya, if my folks bought mine, then dropping $10K on it wouldn't be any big deal. but since they didn't then spending another $10K on top of the $4500 i've already put into mine... besides, i'd rather own a house and have something that actually APPRECIATES in value for once! my expensive tastes and car modding craze has got me in enough debt trouble! LOLgood luck to you on your gt goals! would be sweet for sure!

satur9 · Post by **satur9** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:13 am

first off monkeywrenchracings mr2 isnt makig 400 hp and they are a race shop so good luck with that.you might want to add another couple grand for a new ecu or piggyback(the stock one wont cut it) and a limited slip because trying to put that power to the ground with one wheel is plain silly and another couple grand for a hoopty to drive around in because your car in going to be in the shop(a LOT!!) now as far as the cryo . its a good move but it wont garuntee anything.monkeywrenchs tranny is basically stock and they havent broken it(YET). and there are a couple of poeple who break trannies on stock power. depends on how you drive.for less than four grand you can get a c2power tranny(3x stronger gears,lsd,6speeds)which theoretically should handle it,till you find the next weakest link.but what id do is leave the vibe alone and invest in a nice used supra. undergoing a venture of this sort takes a lot more than just money.

wicked1981 · Post by **wicked1981** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:17 am

Quote, originally posted by Smokin' Rubber Â»*Edit according to the Pontiac website the GTO starts at $32,000 and the 2004 only has 350 hp which is pretty sad for a 5.7 liter engine if they got another 50 hp for the 2005 (which I would find hard to believe unless they made some significant changes) it would still be alot slower and more expensive. Believe it!!!http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id ... 5cars1.htm

Smokin' Rubber · Post by **Smokin' Rubber** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:30 am

Supra's from 97 are still REALLY expensive. I had already planned to get the LSD and the new ECU left them off the list tho. As for the MR2, with the like 11% decrease in power dropping the compression to 8.8:1 the 2ZZ still has more horsepower than the 1ZZ with the same piston set up because it retains lift which the 1ZZ does not have. They are already running the MR2 at 359 whp and with the added HP from the 2ZZ I could prolly get it to around 390 and the addition of nitrous at WOT would certainly put the car over 400 hp. Also if you read thru all the posts on the spyder chat forum the T4 they used had more room for boost which means it could hit higher numbers. I would probably go with a T3 which could still prolly manage 25 psi and would be less laggy since it is a smaller turbo.Hey just a thought or hypothesis I suppose. Shouldn't a smaller engine be able to run higher boost than a larger engine? The reason being the same that a larger stick is easier to bend and break than a smaller one. Kind of a random question but I was just pondering it for a bit

satur9 · Post by **satur9** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:02 am

the bore and stroke of the 1zz is better suited for boost and the sleeves(stock and aftermaket)are thicker or the 1zz. the 2zz head flows better than the 1zz head which is about it(for fi applications).and thats pretty much moot, when your cramming 20 plus pounds of boost down its throat.plus if you revving that high with that power valves and springs are a must.the 2zz lower comp pistons arent new so if it was easy there would be a lot more turbo 2zzs than 1zzs.(xs engineerings turbo is old news) id whatch smay and the other gts's over on newcelica.org theyve been doing this longer than anybody here. and if 400hp is possible they will do it before you. as for the engine and stick thing. if air(boost) came in gallons and your engine could hold a gallon youre good but your not putting a gallon of air in a 2 liter engine.simples laws of physics.i never heard that expression of the sticks before either.

Psychobroker · Post by **Psychobroker** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:18 am

Quote, originally posted by Smokin' Rubber Â»Hey just a thought or hypothesis I suppose. Shouldn't a smaller engine be able to run higher boost than a larger engine? The reason being the same that a larger stick is easier to bend and break than a smaller one. Kind of a random question but I was just pondering it for a bitI just had to comment that this makes no sense at all...can't really compare the two (sticks & engines?). Sorry, I'm not trying to bash.If by larger you actually mean LONGER, then yes, a longer stick is easier to break than a shorter stick of the SAME circumference, due to leverage.I.e. this can't even be compared an engine's displacement.

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:21 am

Quote, originally posted by Smokin' Rubber Â»I didn't pay for my car my parents did.I convinced them to give me $800 for parts must be nice being fed from that silver spoon.

Smokin' Rubber · Post by **Smokin' Rubber** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:44 pm

Wow thats brutal guys.... so much negativity on one thread who'd have thought it was possible since Ivan installed his hood scoop Quote, originally posted by scherry2 Â»must be nice being fed from that silver spoon. I'm not being fed from a silver spoon. The car I was originally supposed to drive (a 94 ford explorer got stolen) and I needed a car to get to school which was 20 minutes away. my parents had a GM car with $2000 worth of rewards on it and don't like buying used cars because they think you just inherit other peoples problem cars. I really had very little say in it. Other than neccessities I pay for everything myself. And in reference to the $800 that is from the parts shop that sponsored me. My parents would never agree to give me money to mod my car.Quote, originally posted by satur9 Â»the bore and stroke of the 1zz is better suited for boost and the sleeves(stock and aftermaket)are thicker or the 1zz. the 2zz head flows better than the 1zz head which is about it(for fi applications).and thats pretty much moot, when your cramming 20 plus pounds of boost down its throat.plus if you revving that high with that power valves and springs are a must.the 2zz lower comp pistons arent new so if it was easy there would be a lot more turbo 2zzs than 1zzs.(xs engineerings turbo is old news) id whatch smay and the other gts's over on newcelica.org theyve been doing this longer than anybody here. and if 400hp is possible they will do it before you. as for the engine and stick thing. if air(boost) came in gallons and your engine could hold a gallon youre good but your not putting a gallon of air in a 2 liter engine.simples laws of physics.i never heard that expression of the sticks before either. Yeah alright I get the point, no one has done it yet but is that because they haven't wanted to fork over $10,000 + or because its not doable? Studs, springs, and valves have all been added of my list of stuff to get as well. Explain how you believe the bore and stroke will make a huge impact and how large of an impact that would be. The stick thing with be addressed below. And no its not an expression its an analogy that I made based on the literage of large engines versus smaller ones.Quote, originally posted by Pyschobroker Â»I just had to comment that this makes no sense at all...can't really compare the two (sticks & engines?). Sorry, I'm not trying to bash.If by larger you actually mean LONGER, then yes, a longer stick is easier to break than a shorter stick of the SAME circumference, due to leverage.I.e. this can't even be compared an engine's displacement.Yes, sorry I meant to address length not circumference. But it still does make sense if you look at it this way.Assume that the cylinder walls of two engine, one larger engine and one smaller engine, are the same in thickness. Now if you were pumping say 35 pounds of pressure into both engines which engine would bend more and possibly create a safety issue. This is how it related to the stick.... the larger surface area means that the same amount of air pressure probably has more leverage against all the surfaces in the engine with higher volume cylinders. I hope that makes more sense now as to what I was trying to relate.I was wondering whether since the smaller engine would be harder to contort due to air pressure that the amoutn of psi you could safely run on the engien would be greater.Constructive critisism is good but just out right pointless belittling is a bit childish and uneccesary. If I'm wrong then just correct me without trying to insult my intelligence, never did I say that I knew everything about cars, cause if I didn't I would not be posting things on this discussion board. I will thank satur for his one bit of useful adive which I appreciate which was the thing about the valve springs. Originally I had intended to look into those but decided to cut costs wherever I thought qould not be needed. I know this will cost quite a bit of money to do and will take me a long while, but I intend to have this car until after I finish my master's degree and just the satisfaction of making it really fun to drive and waste people at the track with a "wagon" would be fun.

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:20 pm

Quote, originally posted by Smokin' Rubber Â» And in reference to the $800 that is from the parts shop that sponsored me. My parents would never agree to give me money to mod my car..thats not what you typed.

Psychobroker · Post by **Psychobroker** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:28 am

Quote, originally posted by Smokin' Rubber Â»Constructive critisism is good but just out right pointless belittling is a bit childish and uneccesary. If I'm wrong then just correct me without trying to insult my intelligence, never did I say that I knew everything about cars, cause if I didn't I would not be posting things on this discussion board. IDude, this is the INTERNET...and you compared a stick to an engine...what did you expect other than a critical response? I'm sorry I didn't take your feelings into account, but I didn't think you'd be so sensitive Again, this is the internet...it's not that big of a deal.Quote Â» never did I say that I knew everything about cars, cause if I didn't I would not be posting things on this discussion board.No, but you sure make a lot of wild, pretentious assumptions, which leaves you wide open to criticism -IMHO-Sorry if I offended you.

satur9 · Post by **satur9** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:41 am

what i was saying was that a 1zz would be a little stronger(the 3zz use the 1zz crank for more stroke)plus the crank may be slightly stronger(thicker).and the max boosted power difference of a 1zz and 2zz wouldnt be that big.not saying tha a 2zz can be strong but that at the same power levels say 300hp a 1zz should outlive a 2zz. smay has spent well over 10000 dollars on his car,as has others(hell he even rip out an 4 thousand dollar xs engineering kit(the whole kit)to replace it with another similiar priced kit. he's got all the stuff you want and more. you want answers go register there.but do a search first for all availible info and keep the questions technical.cause if you thought this was flames those celica guys are infernos

Smokin' Rubber · Post by **Smokin' Rubber** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:29 pm

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 Â»thats not what you typed.Was meant in response to TRD's remark about the sponsorship. You gotta give me some leeway, I'm on pain killers and a little bit absent minded Quote, originally posted by Psychobroker Â»No, but you sure make a lot of wild, pretentious assumptions, which leaves you wide open to criticism -IMHO-Sorry if I offended you. It's alright and yeah I realize I do, but there's nothing wrong with assuming something hypothetically and being wrong as long as you are corrected.Hey satur do you think it would be possible to get a 2ZZ up for the 359 hp that the MR2 1ZZ is at? And if so could you do a 50 shot of nitrous to get it to 400?

wicked1981 · Post by **wicked1981** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:25 am

Quote, originally posted by Smokin' Rubber Â»Hey satur do you think it would be possible to get a 2ZZ up for the 359 hp that the MR2 1ZZ is at? And if so could you do a 50 shot of nitrous to get it to 400?I think anything can be done when you have money but what everyone is trying to say is that if you want 400hp do it in something that wont cost you an arm and a leg. You are looking at close to $15,000 maybe more to get 400hp thats like a couple grand off the price of a new Scion 2005 TC!!

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:56 am

As to the whole GTO thing:They're changing it to an LS2 for 05...hence the extra horses.

satur9 · Post by **satur9** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:48 am

oh im not saying that a 2zz can get that high.(you could slap a lot nitrous on anything and get close)(20 plus pound of boost is bad adding nitrous is worse)but i will assume that you want you car to last longer than a week. monkeywrench has the funds and ability to do that easy and over and over again if it blows up.they didnt just slap all the parts they could find on there and now magically it runs great. plus theres is a track car. not a daily driven sole means of transportation.if you were building a race car,shoot for the moon. but you plans seem highly ambitious for a vibe you drive to school,work, wherever.

satur9 · Post by **satur9** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:01 am

well i just read a thread that matt from monkeywrench posted in. he feels that with the proper buildup a 2zz is just as strong as a 1zz or better.so i stands corrected(on principle alone since they havent tried it yet, but i feel that they are more knowledgeble on the subject than me).however the post from me above this still stands.

Smokin' Rubber · Post by **Smokin' Rubber** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

Cool, thanks for the info satur. Think I should email them and ask them for more information and advice?Oh I was just curious if you knew, but would it be possible to adjust teh car between 10 to 20 some psi depending on if I was racing or just driving normally? and would that help engine life?

Psychobroker · Post by **Psychobroker** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:37 am

based on what I've read, anything greater than 14psi-16psi, depending on your internals, would yield little to no benefits. Not to mention potentially blow the engine. I think Faultline's running 16psi on his 1zz.

satur9 · Post by **satur9** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:00 am

yes, and adjustable boost controller. the emanage piggyback has that as an option.(but there are many separate ones out there)if you get all the stuff from monkeywrench. they will probably give you a discount. lower boost will make you car last longer. under 12 psi. for daily driving. but it only takes one time at 20 plus boost and nitrous to blow your car.

Psychobroker · Post by **Psychobroker** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:01 am

Quote, originally posted by satur9 Â»but it only takes one time at 20 plus boost and nitrous to blow your car.At which point he'll have 0 HP

Smokin' Rubber · Post by **Smokin' Rubber** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:16 am

Quote, originally posted by satur9 Â»but it only takes one time at 20 plus boost and nitrous to blow your car.I suppose but then again you can randomly blow your car up at any time by revving up to 8,600 rpm's anyway though the chance may be smaller. I'll ask MWR if they think it's unsafe and I'll cut $1,000 off my list if it is, no big deal.Btw they said that they have the MR2 running at 445 hp and they would get my car to at least 400 hp for $10k

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