Need ignition wiring info,weird starting problem

[grrlinsuperior]

long story short what i thought was a no crank due to low battery,then starter ect everything tested comes to be issue with ignition,just put the switch in wont start BUT my mechanic friend can get it to run(we where driving it)hot wired at the conector where the ignition switch goes in.He needs a diagram of what the pins are(haynes manual dont have) an experienced vibe owner suggested to me the voltage regulator on the alt might be the problem being when we where testing wires to see if recieving current from battery 3(clutch switch ignition switch and some other)were only recieving 10 volts not 12,that how we discovered where the starting issue was.its not the key lock either we tried with screw driver turning ign. The electrical diagram i have of whole starting system just shows the path and fuses,my question doesnt the igntion harness get power from the battery then how would the voltage reg on battery be the issue?But then again we are the wires in the area not getting full 12 volts-relay replaced and tested evey fuse...when he bypasses the ign(hot wires it) to get it running the alt wont charge battery,my friend thinks or explained it should if we where actually using the ignition switch to start..We have been trying to fix this for 2 weeks,its not PCM i even swapped that..its a 2004 pontaic vibe gt any diagrams on the harness connectors would be great or some info..

[joatmon]

I think if the battery is at proper voltage, a bad voltage regulator would not prevent starting.

I've attached some PDF's from the 03 Toyota Matrix manual, they should be the same for your 04 Vibe GT.

The second page of the Power Source shows the pin out of the ignition switch. The fat paddles in the diagram indicate that when in the Run position, power is connected to both the ACC and IG1 circuits, when in the start position, power is connected to both the IG1 and ST2 circuits

The Starting PDF shows battery voltage goes directly to the starter, then a bunch of circuitry to control when the starter relay closes to activate the starter's solenoid

I added the Charging PDF since you said the alternator isn''t charging the battery, in case it might help you and the mechanic figure that part out.

Not really sure what else to offer, other than check for good connections, especially the ground points for the battery and starter. And of course, make sure the battery terminals and connectors aren't corroded


anyway, hope the PDFs help, let us know what it was when you get it figured out

[grrlinsuperior]

thanks,the ignition switch is 6 pin as the connector to harness-i need and cant find what all the 6 pins on the harness or igntion switch relate to i need to find that diagram-when he hot wires it it starts up and runs,i guess he wants to know what is being bypassed to check those wires or something-nothing is making sense ,possible the alt isnt getting the signal to charge by bypassing or its a new separte issue.we have been testing and swaping out parts for 3 weeks now.I personally am ready to just rig it up with basic switch and drive it hot wired but we are left with the question is the starter bad or jst not getting a signal from that because it was charging fine before ll this...yes the charts are similar to what i have...thanks

[SlammedNiss]

Don't know if this helps any, but figured I would post it anyways. All wires in the ignition harness are at the top of the list. Anything labeled "ignition" should be +12v while key is in "on" position and while cranking. Wires labeled "accessory" will only be +12v while key is on and will go flat while cranking.

[grrlinsuperior]

thanks,i had some similar charts but this gave me an idea-on accesory going to heater blower-i did install a new one last year,im gonna recheck it.I usually turn off heat and fans when i park the car,maybe its hogging power when starting up,would explain why the bypass wiring starts car and not ign switch.

[joatmon]

i need and cant find what all the 6 pins on the harness or igntion switch relate to

Here is a portion of the second page of the power source PDF that shows the wiring for the ignition switch

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The white wire connected to pin 1 gets 12V from the AM1 fuse

The black wire connected to pin 5 gets 12V from the AM2 fuse

The Blue wire with red stripe connected to pin 3 provides power to the ACC circuit

The Black wire with yellow stripe connected to pin 2 is connected to the coil of the Ignition Relay, which causes it to close and provide power from the`100A ALT fuse to provide power to various circuits when the car is running

The Black wire with white stripe connected to pin 6 provides 12V to the ignition coils

The Red wire connected to pin 4 provides power to the logic that controls the starter relay (The starter gets high current power directly from the battery, the starter circuitry just powers the starter solenoid.) see the starter PDF to see where that goes

When the ignition switch is in the off position, both the inputs from the AM1 and AM2 fuses are connected to nothing.
When the switch is in the ACC position, power from AM1 pin 1 is connected to the ACC line (Blue/Red pin 3)
When the switch is in the run position, power from AM1 pin 1f is connected to both the ACC line (pin 3) and also the IG1 line (Black/Yellow pin 2
and also power from AM2 pin 5 is connected to the IG2 line (Black/white pin 6)
When the switch is in the Start position, AM1 pin 1 is disconnected from ACC pin 3, but still connected to IG1 pin 2,
and AM2 pin 5 is connected to both IG2 pin 6 and ST2 pin 4