GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

Hello guys! I am having a problem with my 2003 Pontiac Vibe All Wheel Drive. I am hearing a "Woooo" noise coming from the rear differential. This noise stars like when I am driving around 30MPH and increases according the speed level. When I first got the Vibe, I had to ad fluid on the rear differential because of the "woooo" noise. The noise stopped/was reduced to the minimum after the fluid filling. But now, a 2 years later, the noise comes back but filling it with fluid would not help. I even changed the whole differential fluid for a heavier one (It was very burnt/dirty). This reduced the noise but it did not stop it like when I first got the Vibe. To play safe, a week later, I changed the differential fluid again for even a heavier fluid (Lucas Heavy Duty SAE 85W-140) but the noise is the same. This is the first AWD vehicle that I have. So any help/suggestion would be greatly appreciated!

Update 10/16/2014: After running it on the lift, I noticed that no noise was present. If the noise was present even with the Vibe on the lift, then the problem would have been the differential. Now I am thinking about the rear bearings... What do you think guys???

"(It was very burnt/dirty)" is not a good sign. Putting thicker lube in is not going to fix the problem. Does the noise change when you get on the gas pedal (under load) or when you get off the gas pedal (coasting)? Does the noise change when you turn left or when you turn right?

If the lube is burnt and dirty (metal? - take a magnet to the dirt; is it magnetic?), then I would say you had better start looking for a different rear end at the salvage yard but a little more info would be helpful.

jolt wrote:"(It was very burnt/dirty)" is not a good sign. Putting thicker lube in is not going to fix the problem. Does the noise change when you get on the gas pedal (under load) or when you get off the gas pedal (coasting)? Does the noise change when you turn left or when you turn right?

If the lube is burnt and dirty (metal? - take a magnet to the dirt; is it magnetic?), then I would say you had better start looking for a different rear end at the salvage yard but a little more info would be helpful.

Thank you for replying. I could not check the oil now because I changed it like two weeks again. However, I looked at the oil and it did not seem to have any metal particles. The noise begins when I accelerate and reach about 30MPH. As long as the speed is over 30mph, the noise is steady with or without pressing the gas pedal. It gets higher with speed. The noise decreases when I reach back the 5MPH or if I get in a full stop.

Did you read this post: viewtopic.php?t=13606 ? Have you checked the drive shaft hanger bearings and joints to the rear end?

Here is another link with a TSB from Toyota which starts off with:

"Some customers may complain about an abnormal noise from the rear of the vehicle that increases in volume as vehicle speed increases. The noise is commonly described as a whining, humming, roaring, or growling noise. The source of the noise may be a damaged transmission coupling assembly and 2 ball bearing assemblies. Follow the repair procedure in this TSB to diagnose and repair this condition."

http://www.toyotapart.com/ABNORMAL_NOIS ... 002-07.pdf and is for the '03-'06 Matrix AWD, which is your Vibe.

jolt wrote:Did you read this post: viewtopic.php?t=13606 ? Have you checked the drive shaft hanger bearings and joints to the rear end?

Ooohhhh Man... I think that is the exact problem that I currently have

jolt wrote:Here is another link with a TSB from Toyota which starts off with:

"Some customers may complain about an abnormal noise from the rear of the vehicle that increases in volume as vehicle speed increases. The noise is commonly described as a whining, humming, roaring, or growling noise. The source of the noise may be a damaged transmission coupling assembly and 2 ball bearing assemblies. Follow the repair procedure in this TSB to diagnose and repair this condition."

http://www.toyotapart.com/ABNORMAL_NOIS ... 002-07.pdf and is for the '03-'06 Matrix AWD, which is your Vibe.

Thanks for the link. I think that this is going to be a very expensive repair

jolt wrote:"(It was very burnt/dirty)" is not a good sign. Putting thicker lube in is not going to fix the problem. Does the noise change when you get on the gas pedal (under load) or when you get off the gas pedal (coasting)? Does the noise change when you turn left or when you turn right?

If the lube is burnt and dirty (metal? - take a magnet to the dirt; is it magnetic?), then I would say you had better start looking for a different rear end at the salvage yard but a little more info would be helpful.

By the way, the noise is present when I driving straight or turning to the right. When I turn to the left, the noise goes away.

Update: After running it on the lift, I noticed that no noise was present. If the noise was present even with the Vibe on the lift, then the problem would have been the differential. Now I am thinking about the rear bearings... What do you think guys???

"After running it on the lift, I noticed that no noise was present." and that is what I would expect. No load on any of the drive train components is going to make very little if any noise. Bearings, rear end, etc. will change in noise level as the load on them changes. Under acceleration, coasting, down shifting, turning left and turning right, you are changing the load on the bearings. As the noise changes under these different conditions, this is what can help you trouble shoot the problem or at least get you to an area of the car for mechanical inspection. Unless the bearing is ready to fall apart, you are not going to get noise from it with no load. Rear wheel bearings are going to show up as changes in the noise from corning left or right, as you load and unload the wheel bearing. The more load you put on the noisy (bad) bearing, the louder the bearing will get. From your earlier replies, it sounds more like a drive shaft hanger bearing or what the TSB is pointing out as the problem. Manufactures do not put out TSB unless it is a common problem with that vehicle.

Did you use a stethoscope like the TSB said to do to find the noise?
As noted in the Toyota TSB:
NOTE:
A mechanic’s stethoscope or similar tool may be used in place of ChassisEAR.
ChassisEAR may be ordered by calling Toyota Approved Dealer Equipment (ADE) at 1–800–368–6787.

Under the TSB "Repair Proceduce", you did step #1 but have not done step #2.

jolt wrote:"After running it on the lift, I noticed that no noise was present." and that is what I would expect. No load on any of the drive train components is going to make very little if any noise. Bearings, rear end, etc. will change in noise level as the load on them changes. Under acceleration, coasting, down shifting, turning left and turning right, you are changing the load on the bearings. As the noise changes under these different conditions, this is what can help you trouble shoot the problem or at least get you to an area of the car for mechanical inspection. Unless the bearing is ready to fall apart, you are not going to get noise from it with no load. Rear wheel bearings are going to show up as changes in the noise from corning left or right, as you load and unload the wheel bearing. The more load you put on the noisy (bad) bearing, the louder the bearing will get. From your earlier replies, it sounds more like a drive shaft hanger bearing or what the TSB is pointing out as the problem. Manufactures do not put out TSB unless it is a common problem with that vehicle.

Did you use a stethoscope like the TSB said to do to find the noise?
As noted in the Toyota TSB:
NOTE:
A mechanic’s stethoscope or similar tool may be used in place of ChassisEAR.
ChassisEAR may be ordered by calling Toyota Approved Dealer Equipment (ADE) at 1–800–368–6787.

Under the TSB "Repair Proceduce", you did step #1 but have not done step #2.

Since there was not any loads on the vehicle and based on what you suggested in your first post, I got to the conclusion that if there was any problem with the differential, the noise would have been present even if the Vibe was on the lift. I have not used a stethoscope since I do not own one. However, what do you think about my theory?

The rear wheel bearings come with their hubs as well. Since I am planning to change both rear bearings, they are a little expensive for my budget from the dealer. But I was looking at the Timken HA590002. What do you think about their quality? Any other suggestions?
I also need to change the front driver side lower control arm. I am planning to change both of them as well. I was looking at the Dorman or Moog? What do you think? Any suggestions on the brand?

MOOG for anything suspension-related. Don't cheap out on the bearings, because if you do, they'll likely be bad within the year.

lannvouivre wrote:MOOG for anything suspension-related. Don't cheap out on the bearings, because if you do, they'll likely be bad within the year.

Great! Moog will be. So besides the factory, any suggestions about the bearings??

Reaccion wrote:By the way, the noise is present when I driving straight or turning to the right. When I turn to the left, the noise goes away.

This statement would indicate a bad drivers side bearing or suspension component.

Hello guys! I am having a problem with my 2003 Pontiac Vibe All Wheel Drive. I am hearing a "Woooo" noise coming from the rear differential. This noise stars like when I am driving around 30MPH and increases according the speed level. When I first got the Vibe, I had to ad fluid on the rear differential because of the "woooo" noise. The noise stopped/was reduced to the minimum after the fluid filling. But now, a 2 years later, the noise comes back but filling it with fluid would not help. I even changed the whole differential fluid for a heavier one (It was very burnt/dirty). This reduced the noise but it did not stop it like when I first got the Vibe. To play safe, a week later, I changed the differential fluid again for even a heavier fluid (Lucas Heavy Duty SAE 85W-140) but the noise is the same. This is the first AWD vehicle that I have. So any help/suggestion would be greatly appreciated!

This statement would lead one to believe the rear end is bad. Very burnt/dirty gear lube is not normal. Having the sound change by adding lube would indicate that the rear end was very low on lube which would cause accelerated wear in the rear end. The dirt would give a clue as to how much wear because dirt does not enter a rear end so the dirt has to come from inside the rear itself. Rear end gear lube should last the lifetime of the rear end. The lube does not get contaminated as there is no outside source, except for the small vent, for contamination to enter the rear end. Motor oil on the other hand does get contaminated by condensation and combustion blow by, which is why motor oil has to be changed. Rear end lube needs to be the proper viscosity to flow at the temperature extremes so the internal components can be lubricated. This is one area were I would use a synthetic lube like Amzoil as it flow much freer at the temperature extremes then regular gear lube does.

The rear wheel bearings come with their hubs as well. Since I am planning to change both rear bearings, they are a little expensive for my budget from the dealer. But I was looking at the Timken HA590002. What do you think about their quality? Any other suggestions?

Timken has been a good brand name product along with SKF. Bearing manufactures will trade parts with one another to cover their product lines. Do not be surprised to find that the Timken part has a different brand bearing in it.

I also need to change the front driver side lower control arm. I am planning to change both of them as well. I was looking at the Dorman or Moog? What do you think? Any suggestions on the brand?

Moog is a top brand for suspension parts while Dorman has been around for many decades mostly supplying small parts for the aftermarket automotive industry.

jolt wrote:

Reaccion wrote:By the way, the noise is present when I driving straight or turning to the right. When I turn to the left, the noise goes away.

This statement would indicate a bad drivers side bearing or suspension component.

Thank you again for all your replies. You actually pointed out the weight distribution when driving to determine the problem.

jolt wrote:

Reaccion wrote:

Hello guys! I am having a problem with my 2003 Pontiac Vibe All Wheel Drive. I am hearing a "Woooo" noise coming from the rear differential. This noise stars like when I am driving around 30MPH and increases according the speed level. When I first got the Vibe, I had to ad fluid on the rear differential because of the "woooo" noise. The noise stopped/was reduced to the minimum after the fluid filling. But now, a 2 years later, the noise comes back but filling it with fluid would not help. I even changed the whole differential fluid for a heavier one (It was very burnt/dirty). This reduced the noise but it did not stop it like when I first got the Vibe. To play safe, a week later, I changed the differential fluid again for even a heavier fluid (Lucas Heavy Duty SAE 85W-140) but the noise is the same. This is the first AWD vehicle that I have. So any help/suggestion would be greatly appreciated!

This statement would lead one to believe the rear end is bad. Very burnt/dirty gear lube is not normal. Having the sound change by adding lube would indicate that the rear end was very low on lube which would cause accelerated wear in the rear end. The dirt would give a clue as to how much wear because dirt does not enter a rear end so the dirt has to come from inside the rear itself. Rear end gear lube should last the lifetime of the rear end. The lube does not get contaminated as there is no outside source, except for the small vent, for contamination to enter the rear end. Motor oil on the other hand does get contaminated by condensation and combustion blow by, which is why motor oil has to be changed. Rear end lube needs to be the proper viscosity to flow at the temperature extremes so the internal components can be lubricated. This is one area were I would use a synthetic lube like Amzoil as it flow much freer at the temperature extremes then regular gear lube does.

After we put the Vibe on the lift and back on the ground, the noise was reduced a little even without doing anything to the rear end. After driving for a while the noise came back just as it happened when I changed the differential oil for the second time. Maybe lifting the vehicle changed something temporarily in the suspension (It made me think about wheel alignment).

jolt wrote:

Reaccion wrote:

The rear wheel bearings come with their hubs as well. Since I am planning to change both rear bearings, they are a little expensive for my budget from the dealer. But I was looking at the Timken HA590002. What do you think about their quality? Any other suggestions?

Timken has been a good brand name product along with SKF. Bearing manufactures will trade parts with one another to cover their product lines. Do not be surprised to find that the Timken part has a different brand bearing in it.

Great, as long as they are known for being quality brand, I am okay with it. I am actually ordering two of these Timken ones from AutoZone locally. They have 3 years warranty with them. (I also found a coupon and it reduced the price by 20 percent ).

jolt wrote:

Reaccion wrote:

I also need to change the front driver side lower control arm. I am planning to change both of them as well. I was looking at the Dorman or Moog? What do you think? Any suggestions on the brand?

Moog is a top brand for suspension parts while Dorman has been around for many decades mostly supplying small parts for the aftermarket automotive industry.

Okay, so Moog will be. I am planning on changing both front ones to play safe. Summit Auto Parts has a good price for these.

Again, thank you for all you replies.

You may want to pick one of these up at AutoZone too:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/access ... e/_/N-26gd
or
http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-52500-Mecha ... B0002SQYSM
They come in handy to find noise related problems.

You should check your rear axle CV boots also to make sure they are in good shape (no cracks or tears in the rubber). Now is the time to replace them if they are in bad shape. With the hubs off you are half way there to replacing the boots.

jolt wrote:You may want to pick one of these up at AutoZone too:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/access ... e/_/N-26gd
or
http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-52500-Mecha ... B0002SQYSM
They come in handy to find noise related problems.

You should check your rear axle CV boots also to make sure they are in good shape (no cracks or tears in the rubber). Now is the time to replace them if they are in bad shape. With the hubs off you are half way there to replacing the boots.

Wow! that is really cheap. I will definitely grab one of those stethoscopes. I will also check the axle cv boots. That was a very important piece of advise. I will check them before I begging working on the bearings so that I could order good quality ones in case that they are broken.

A long screwdriver also works in a pinch with the tip on the part and the handle to your ear.

lannvouivre wrote:A long screwdriver also works in a pinch with the tip on the part and the handle to your ear.

Wow! I did not this. The stethoscopes is more accurate and overall cheap. However, this is a great suggestion. Thanks.

I will post all the results. I am just waiting for the parts in the mail. For some reason, my order from Summit was divided into two and one of the parts arrived first even though I ordered them together...

Parts came in safely. They were all installed and the problem was solved. Thanks guys!

I am having the same issue on my '06 AWD except I get a noise when I turn left and goes away when I turn right (more details here). I also replaced the rear wheel bearings and hubs as part of my attempts to fix it but the noise is still there. I have not checked the differential fluid yet. What parts did you end up installing that fixed this problem for you? Front wheel bearings? Drive shaft hanger bearings? Suspension? Any help much appreciated!

I read your post and you only changed one rear bearing. It was always recommended to change both of the rear bearings when one goes bad. Keep in mind that when one of the bearings gets damaged, the other one is more likely to fail as well since they were both installed the same date and they both went through the same treatment (Assuming that they were the original ones) . I actually solved my problem by buying two of the following parts at AutoZone: Timken/Wheel Bearing/Hub Assembly - Rear (Part number: HA590002). I hope that it helps!

Thanks, those are the bearings I ordered and one if which I have installed. I will be doing the other rear bearing this weekend. Did you replace the dust shields behind the bearings or reuse the existing ones?

I inspected them and I reused the old dust shields.