Typical life of a hydraulic clutch? GT

TrojanGT · Post by **TrojanGT** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:55 am

In case Jeff Strausser is reading the thread (or if Nick or someone cares to pass along the word), our dead clutch/parts was(were?) delivered to Peninsula Pontiac on Friday afternoon, August 8th and should be on its way to wherever you specified.(Jeff, give me a call for more details if you need them - I'm back at work and outgoing long-distance calls are a littel tricky) Thanks!Mahalo, Dawn

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 12:02 pm

I mentioned launch because it's difficult to do in a GT and is probably where the biggest portion of this problem lies. The lite flywheel only makes it more so but It's great once your moving. A properly working clutch doesn't slip in gear at any speed and in any gear. You couldn't even put down the power to a dyno and get a peak hp reading if the clutch slipped. Once they start to slip, they build heat so fast that they go away quick. They couldn't last as long as they do if they slipped this way. If you've used one up you know that you wont feel it slip for years and when it start to go away it gets worse very quickly. Its not holding up to the motors force that will make it slip. Not rotational speed. If the 2zz had the same HP at lower rpms with gearing to match the road speed of stock at peak HP, the load on the clutch would be exactly the same at this lower rpm. Basic physics. No fooling. Ask a pro. I also have gotten wiffs of my clutch since new. 14K so far and it still feels good but I suspect it will be the fastest to wear out of those I've owned.

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:39 pm

What I was trying to say is that most average clutches won't hold up to 8000-rpm shifts and hard acceleration and will begin to slip even at high rpms. The Vibe GT clutch was designed for daily driving, not racing.

QUIKAG · Post by **QUIKAG** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:35 pm

I've stayed out of this thread because, honestly, I figured it was lack of skill in manipulating the clutch for minimum wear, but maybe I'm wrong in a few cases, particularly the one who had an Accord with clutch go over 100k without failing.That said, the issue here is, our Vibes have little, to no, torque down low, so I'm thinking a lot of you rev up your motors and slip the clutch away from each and every stop sign and stop light. This is not good for the longevity of the clutch.I have great faith in my clutch lasting a long time in my Vibe GT because I do a few things:1. When I'm coming up to a light, I engage clutch, pop transmission into neutral, and release clutch. 2. When light turns green, I push in clutch, shift to first gear, rev up to JUST OVER 1000rpm and slowly ease out the clutch to the point of engagement while feeding it just enough gas to keep the motor from stalling. 3. Once the clutch is fully engaged and my foot is off the clutch pedal, I give it as much gas as necessary to accelerate as required.4. When shifting to second gear, I engage clutch and make quick, firm shifts, so that clutch engagement is normally for about 1 second per shift under normal driving. If you smell clutch burning, you're slipping the clutch and causing premature wear to the components. I've had this smell a few times when I've been angry at other motorists, I engage clutch fully, rev the motor up very high, and ease out of the clutch for a second to promote a little bit of movement. This normally happens in parking lots, when I'm surrounded by retarded motorists blocking my way. If you rev the motor high and even engage the clutch a little bit for a second or less, you'll get the smell pretty bad.This leads me to believe that the clutch can be burned up pretty easily.So, those of you with problems, how do you drive your clutch??

jcarvibegt · Post by **jcarvibegt** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 11:38 pm

Dude, I think most of the Vibe GT owners here have the skillz and know how on how to drive a stick! That was one of the major buying points of the GT, A high performance stick shift only CUV. Too be honest, I love my Vibe GT and all , but the clutch and shifter suck!!!! And there's no denying it. Even all the major car magz like motor trend and car and driver have complained about the fact that the GT is difficult to launch b/c it stalls so easily. So the tendency is to over rev the engine at launch. When i got my GT in december of 2002. It was like learning how to drive stick all over again b/c i kept on stalling or over reving. The people around me must of thought i was a first time stick driver! And i have driven stick for years now. I've driven from a Dodge Viper and Porsche 944 to a Contour SVT and a Chevy Tracker. And none of them had this same problem. Even the Tracker which i thought had the worse stick ever, did not have the issues the GT and XRS Matrix are having. And it's not just the the launching in first gear. It doen't like to be rushed on the 1st to 2nd shift. It just doesn't seem that a car the is designated the GT model, should have a shifter like this. And if this is what we can expect from a toyota transmission, then GM better get there thinking caps on and figure something out b/c it is not the expected quality that i'm used to in a GM product. My family has worked for and retired from GM and we've owned many GM vehicles. And none of the cars have ever had an issue like this! And i think there are too many GT and XRS people complaining about the 6 speed for it not to be a build quality issue. Ok, I've vented, Deep breathes and i feel much better.

QUIKAG · Post by **QUIKAG** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:38 am

Jcarvibegt,Apparently, if you're stalling the car or slipping the clutch bad, then your mad 'skillz' ,as you put it, need some work. You may have a problematic transmission, but it's not the norm.My tranny is a bit notchy, but I've learned to work with it. I can shift quickly or I can shift slowly and smoothly. I have also learned to work within the parameters of the engine's powerband. I know where it stalls and where it pulls out smoothly. Took me a few hours to get the hang of it.I've driven a bunch of manual transmission cars, moreso than most anyone, and I'm only 26. I swap cars with all my friends for a little while just to get a feel for everything out there. If it's a cool car, name it, and I've probably driven it. I'm not trying to brag in any way, but I'm just trying to make the point that each car has their own idiosyncrasies, so you need to learn to work with them.

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:48 am

quote:but I'm just trying to make the point that each car has their own idiosyncrasies, so you need to learn to work with them.This is very true. I was just talking about this to a good friend of mine last night. He works in the maintenance and grounds keeping department of a large school. He was telling me about the 3 trucks they use there and that each one of them is different than the other and that each one requires different techniques to drive them smoothly.

Psychobroker · Post by **Psychobroker** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:46 am

quote:In case Jeff Strausser is reading the thread (or if Nick or someone cares to pass along the word), our dead clutch/parts was(were?) delivered to Peninsula Pontiac on Friday afternoon, August 8th and should be on its way to wherever you specified.Awesome! Nice to see you bought your car from them too Say hello to Elton for me as well

jcarvibegt · Post by **jcarvibegt** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:31 am

Quikag,Man I do the same thing with my friends. Most of them drive stick too. I guess when your a car fanatic, you tend to hang out with people like you. But actually my Vibe's transmission is fine. I got used to it with in a few weeks, even thou i will occasionally stall when I have a brainfart or something! ( DOH!) I just posted here b/c I don't think the dealers should be charging for these repairs. Especially under warranty and on a car that's so new. And i sympathise with TrojanGT for they issues they have had to go thru. My really good friend Chris has a Matrix XRS that i've driven and he is experiencing the same issues with slipping and the clutch seeming worn out. And Maroone Toyota is giving him the same line as Trojan GT got. So all I hope is that this thread makes GM aware and hopefully solve this issue, before it happens to me.

TrojanGT · Post by **TrojanGT** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:58 am

Actually, we bought ours through Sierra Auto in Monrovia. We really needed to get the car we really wanted, and a thorough search turned up (in April of 2002) the only monotone black (excuse me, Abyss), Moon'n Tunes Vibe GT available in the Southern California area. Sierra had the car, and nobody else could even give me any ballpark guesses as to when they would get the car in. We were even in line for an XRS up at Torrance Toyota (next to Peninsula Pontiac), but they didn't even call us (with the wrong color car) until six weeks after we took control of our Vibe GT. It was a tough search, I kid you not.Sierra has a really nice service department, about twice (or more) the size of Peninsula's, though it is a bit of a haul to get to Monrovia from Torrance. It takes a bit of planning!The folks at Peninsula seemed nice enough, though, and were really helpful in getting the parts out, per Jeff's instructions.We can only hope that working together someone can come up with the right "fix" for this clutch thing! I don't want to give up my car, but I certainly don't want to put an extra $1100 a year into a new clutch for the fun of it...Mahalo,Dawn

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 10:48 am

Are you at least getting some financial consideration on this. If you're paying you really should upgrade. There are a couple of clutches that feel stockish, ACT performance and TRD. You'll get normal+ life and a better feeling clutch the whole time. The ACT can be had for $308, shipping and labor should keep it under $900. http://monkeywrenchracing.com/act_hd_st ... s_00_.html

TrojanGT · Post by **TrojanGT** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:27 pm

Actually, the dealership chose to refund us what they charged to replace the clutch, which has been finished for about two weeks. This was done from the "goodwill" account, and not as a warranty issue - so I'm still pursuing things. But at least we're not paying for this clutch.I will certainly consider your suggestions for our next clutch, which I hope won't be in 15 months! Those parts might even be easier for my independent mechanic to get than the Pontiac parts. I'll print out your suggestions for him.In the meantime, the dead original clutch has gone per Jeff for an autopsy, so we'll see what comes of this.Hey, given the saga here, does anybody think buying the extended warranty (which is currently just the factory warranty) before hitting 36K is a good idea? Or would it just be a waste of money, since clutches (and brakes, and tires, and wipers, and...) are considered "normal wear" items? Your thoughtful input on this is much appreciated!Mahalo,Dawn

QUIKAG · Post by **QUIKAG** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 10:15 pm

quote:Hey, given the saga here, does anybody think buying the extended warranty (which is currently just the factory warranty) before hitting 36K is a good idea? Or would it just be a waste of money, since clutches (and brakes, and tires, and wipers, and...) are considered "normal wear" items? Your thoughtful input on this is much appreciated!Mahalo,DawnHonestly, the clutch deal should be an anomoly. If you're not riding or abusing your clutch this second one should last a long while. Since, the car is mechanically Toyota, I would not waste your money on an extended warranty.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:28 pm

quote:Honestly, the clutch deal should be an anomoly. If you're not riding or abusing your clutch this second one should last a long while. Since, the car is mechanically Toyota, I would not waste your money on an extended warranty.I agree. take what ever money you would have spent and invest it or save it for later maintenance issues. you won't have much mechanical meltdowns with the exception of some rare occurances (such as your premature clutch wear).

TrojanGT · Post by **TrojanGT** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 3:18 am

Hope you all escaped the Windows glories which occupied much of my week here at work...!I guess we'll get a real feel for how the new clutch is this week - we're driving up to Tahoe in the Vibe. Open road and mountain roads, can't ask for much more driving fun than that. The car was virtually brand new the last time we took it up - and got caught in a terrific hailstorm! I have to say, the car (thankfully!) looked no worse for the wear.I haven't heard anything more from Jeff or anyone Pontiac-related since handing off the dead clutch. Of course, now that I'm out of the office through Labor Day, that means everyone will call! Mahalo,Dawn

TrojanGT · Post by **TrojanGT** » Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:08 pm

Well... the car runs great, but I think I'm learning to recognize the smell of a burning clutch OK, I know mountain driving isn't a total piece of cake for manuals, but oh! I don't ever remember such smells coming our of our (albeit automatic) Previa! Oh well...More as we learn it,Dawn

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:05 am

Umm... I don't think it works that way, silver. I believe the only way you would be covered beyond the original factory warranty would be if the clutch was replaced just before the vehicle warranty expired, in which case the parts warranty of, what, three months? would apply.Speaking of clutch smells, any car I've driven with a decent clutch will 'yank' the revs right back down if you momentarily dip the pedal at full throttle and peak torque, while accelerating in 2nd or 3rd. If the revs come down slowly or not at all unless you let off the gas, the clutch is fried/inadequate, period! (I've verified the clutch on my base Vibe this way.) A clutch that passes this test should last a long time if you don't 'ride' (slip) it excessively.

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:08 am

I could be wron... wro.... w... ... not correct re the interval; many GM parts used to be only 3 months or 4,000 miles, others are more, in order to match the aftermarket competition

TrojanGT · Post by **TrojanGT** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 8:08 am

I'll be interested in what the reality is - we really tested the clutch on this trip. Not intentionally, but travelling up and around Tahoe and then staying in San Francisco... well, you get the picture. My husband did most of the driving (his choice), but between what little driving I got to do, and learning to recognize the lovely smell of burning clutch... We clearly put some miles this trip on the clutch, but hopefully not what is considered "abusive" wear. I mean, what can you do when you're on a hill in San Francisco? (We do use the handbrake trick, by the way.) In driving the car around here at home, the clutch still feels OK to me, but definitely lacks the insta-grab that the brand new installation had, that's for sure!Wondering truly how long the new clutch is going to last this round, now that we're back to "normal" city/parent-type driving...I haven't heard/seen anything more about whether the first clutch replacement will be moved to the "under warranty" category or stay in the "goodwill fix" column at the dealership. Will let y'all know when I do... it's been a couple of weeks now... Anybody else talk to Jeff lately?Mahalo,Dawn

Kissfan79 · Post by **Kissfan79** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 8:33 pm

Dawn....just out of curiosity.....are you or your husband from Hawaii? I noticed your "Mahalo".Jim

armin · Post by **armin** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 11:31 pm

Well I guess I am not alone with my clutch problem. I got my new Vibe GT in may and noticed from the beginning a smell when I used the clutch on stop lights and stop an go traffic. I called the dealer and he told me that a new cluch might smell a little in the beginning. --Right--.Last week after very careful 5000 miles i went up an exit ramp behind a truck. nothing special. on top of the ramp I saw smoke coming out of the hood.I did bring it in to the dealer and thy did not find anything wrong with it. I had a little VW rabbbit GTI and when I sold it after 190,000 miles I still had the same clutch in it. The clutch on my Ford Probe GT lasted 170,000 miles. And I never noticed a smell from the clutch or even smoke. Where can we complain so it might trigger a recallthanksarmin

TrojanGT · Post by **TrojanGT** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:43 am

Jim:Family has a long, albeit interrupted, set of roots in da Beeg Island. Wood Valley folks from Ka'u. I'm pure katonk (mainlander) and would have trouble residing for long on a rock in the middle of the Pacific!However, we recently firmly re-established our mainland branch o'folks with the rest of Dad's side, after a 50 year rift. What a lode of love and aloha! My kid is DEEP into hula, and it was her interest which actually triggered all of this re-discovery. What a wonderful gift it is!Mahalo is just much more friendly and warm than other greetings - I like it, and I see you all as kin, (especially monotone Abyss GT owners!) (alas, we only have a single-disk, swapped out once already) so Mahalo seems appropriate!Thanks for asking!Mahalo nui loa,Dawn

Roadpig · Post by **Roadpig** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 10:30 am

Well, I just bought a new 2004 Vibe GT 2 weeks ago and now I'm reading these issues regarding the clutch. I too noticed that smell from the clutch when I test drove the GT, and still smell it occasioanlly now when I drive it. I didn't pay much attention to it, figuring I was still "breaking" it in ( I only have 220miles on it now). After having read this ENTIRE thread, I realize that's not the case. I hope GM will issue a recall, since that is really the only way to fix this...and maybe they they will if enogh people speak up. So add my name to the list!BTW there really aren't many GT's out there...I've only seen one.

IceCold · Post by **IceCold** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 12:38 pm

no not a lot of GT's in my area either...kinda like it that way. My experiences are the same with Roadpig. I smelled it a lot when I first got it and every now and then now. Ive know how to drive a manual for a while but this is my first manual tranny vehicle and I just figured it was normal. So yeah count me in. They definately need to issue a recall or deal with this issue

IceCold · Post by **IceCold** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 12:43 pm

I've kinda noticed that topics in forums here disappear after a while with no replies. Can we keep this one up? I sure as hell would want to show this thread to someone because there are a hell of a lot of VGT and XRS people having this problem...you can tell just by reading this thread alone.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 12:46 pm

yes, i wish a moderator would sticky this thread. i just crossed 7600 miles on my GT and a seem to smell the clutch a min of once a week. now, i do drive kinda hard, so that could be it, but even when i ease it in and let it out properly i can still smell it burn. this definitely doesnt' please me, but since i'm now aware of the prob, i can keep an eye on it. i already planned on replacing the clutch w/ a TRD performnce clutch, but will jsut wait til this one goes at about 20K miles. that should bring me to next summer atleast.

mrgrn · Post by **mrgrn** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:23 am

I also have a GT with 9k on it. I have noticed the smell and the lack of grip needed to take off often. I am glad i read this thread, it is nice to know so many people are going to have to replace their clutches too soon as well. I was on a small hill at a light the other day and i had to slip the clutch for like 200 ft down the road to get it to go, or just dump it and burn the tires. I have owned 3 mustangs with about 400 hp and not felt this, i have a toyota celica 1987 gt with over 200k and the original clutch, (removed)!!! is wrong with the pontiac???can i get out of my lease on this? i will have to replace it twice in having it for the lease at what $1000 apiece, i will go postal for sure. There is no way i am going to replace a clutch within 50k miles, are they crazy?Sorry for the rant

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:32 am

quote: (removed)!!! is wrong with the pontiac??? In fact, this clutch is made by Toyota. Matrix XRS suffer of the same toruble. Vibe GT, Matrix XRS and Celica GT-S share the same tranny/ clutch combo, but this trouble seems to be only with Vibe and Trix model.

Triton · Post by **Triton** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:29 pm

quote: (removed)!!! is wrong with the pontiac??? In fact, this clutch is made by Toyota. Matrix XRS suffer of the same toruble. Vibe GT, Matrix XRS and Celica GT-S share the same tranny/ clutch combo, but this trouble seems to be only with Vibe and Trix model.Also, the Vibe GT/Matrix XRS is about 600 lbs. heavier than the Celica GTS. I'm not sure if this is enough to contribute to the clutch problems that some are experiencing. I thought I seen it in this thread but I must have seen it in another one.

JustinVGT · Post by **JustinVGT** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:58 am

Yeah, I hope GM makes a recall on these clutches. My GT has almost 19K miles and I get that smell every once in a while. It's too easy to slip the clutch in these GTs. You have to be really careful when starting out in first. I sure hope I don't have to replace it anytime soon. I agree with there not being many GTs. I haven't seen a single other GT in my area, but I know SavedbyZero has one that I will be seeing soon.

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 5:23 am

quote:Also, the Vibe GT/Matrix XRS is about 600 lbs. heavier than the Celica GTS. I'm not sure if this is enough to contribute to the clutch problems that some are experiencing. I thought I seen it in this thread but I must have seen it in another one.For sure it does not help!More weight to move means more sleep on the clutch.

armin · Post by **armin** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 4:08 am

Hello to all with people out there with problems with the clutch. I contacted Pontiac on the internert through --Pontiac.com -- and clicked the "contact us" buttom on the upper left corner of the web page. I filled out the form and really somebody called me back the next day. Her name is Janifer Bastian and she is the "Customer Resationship Manager". Her e-mail address is cac@pontiac.comand her toll free number is 1-866-932-4368 ext 39229the problem with the clutch on the GTs is new to her. I think the more people complain on different avenues the better for us. give it a try. with a smoking clutcharmin

saking2002 · Post by **saking2002** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:36 pm

I will have to call and complain on that on also

Roadpig · Post by **Roadpig** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 6:17 am

I got a call yesterday evening from a Pontiac Customer Service center (think that's who it was), anyway, they had a series of questions on how I liked the Vibe etc. etc. Then he got a little more specific and asked me about the interior, exterior.....engine/transmission. That's when I took over and went in-depth about the clutch problem I had been reading here & how I was concerned. He asked me if it was OK for an engineer to contact me & I said yes. So we'll see what happens.This site is great, because I have not had the Vibe long enough to experience clutch problems (other than the smell) and if I hadn't read all this stuff on here I would not have been able to give this important feedback back to customer service!

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 6:20 am

that is great! i still get the burnt clutch smell, just passed 8300 miles yesterday! i'm very concerned.... so, glad you are reading all the useful info so they can fix these issues!

TrojanGT · Post by **TrojanGT** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 3:35 am

Great that someone with some technical knowledge (ie- can speak in "cartalk," not like me!) can speak to the Pontiac folks on this issue. Go for it, buddy!I'm getting a little concerned again, this time about the new clutch. My husband drives the car most of the time. I've had the chance to drive it a bit more this week, and feel like I need to put the clutch through the floor to keep from getting a "chunky" feel and sound in the lower gears (on side streets). What little I've driven the car in the recent past, getting it into gear isn't what I think it should be. Remember I've driven a stick Honda for better than 20 years (oops. I started driving as an infant ) We've only put a few thousand miles (3 or 4) on since getting the clutch replaced. This clutch doesn't give me the impression it will last any longer (maybe even less) than our first one, and we're trying like mad to baby it.Last I spoke to Jeff, he mentioned they are working on essentially building a case to take back to the Toyota engineers to solve this problem. Clearly, the more data Pontiac has, the better the engineers can address the specific issue.I joked that I could take the car and drive circles around Toyota headquarters (which at the moment seems like a good idea). We drive past the place every day, it's right here in my town. It's beginning to sound more logical every time I put the clutch in. So clunky "heavy"-feeling shifting isn't a good thing, is it?Mahalo,Dawn

johnsoax · Post by **johnsoax** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 4:27 am

Its the same setup as the Celica, right? So the engine and the transmission work fine together there. I think that it is the extra weight.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 5:16 am

In a thread over at http://www.matrixowners.com/modules.php ... ic&t=11954, somebody says their clutch problems were related to overfill of the master brake/clutch fluid reservoir. I really don't see how that could be related, but a couple of members there swear that removing some fluid cured their problems. Don't want to sidetrack this thread down some dead end, but saw the other site's thread and thought someone with a better understanding of such things might be interested.

QUIKAG · Post by **QUIKAG** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 10:35 am

This car with it's weight, powerband, and clutch setup is hard to drive smoothly without it making weird sounds or feeling 'weak.' I consider myself a very good shifter, heck my Corvette has 35,000 HARD miles on it and the clutch is perfect. I know how to abuse a clutch, as such, I know what NOT to do. Basically, I REALLY have to pay attention to get off the line without too many revs and without bogging. Then, I need to pay attention to get smooth, quick shifts preventing any 'clunky' noises or lurchy engagements. I can do it and make it smooth, but it's not the easiest car (by far!) to drive smoothly...

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 11:03 am

There's a couple of good points above. 1. I don't mean to diss a great powertrain, but I tested a GT before I ordered my base Vibe, and I agree with QUIKAG: I've owned maybe 30 cars with manual trannies*, and that specimen at least (a demo with few but hard miles) was maybe a 4 out of 10 on shift quality; it was really hard to drive smoothly and made me feel like a rookie! Now that the clutch is bedded in, my 5 speed is about an 8-1/2; it would make anyone look good at the job.2. An overfilled hydraulic system could very easily cause clutch problems, as it could act just like too little slack in a mechanical linkage, namely partially disengaging the clutch. Also, as a clutch wears, the free play in the linkage is reduced, so problems could surface after some mileage. The clue re such a condition would be that the clutch would engage right at the top of the pedal travel and there would be no free play.* My son smoked the first clutch out of my last car at 165,000 km, and the second had never even been adjusted when I gave it away at 360,000 +

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:43 pm

There's no question that GTs are not the easiest to start with a moderate launch but I find it a joy to shift once it's rolling. Shift fast and your at the right rpm. Shift slower and skip a gear(2nd to 4th), no problem and the way it revs, downshifting is a breeze. The light flywheel was intentional and helps everywhere but launch. At launch it doesn't store enough momentum to make it easy with the weight of a Vibe. CAIs don't help launch either and hurt throttle responce around town but will top end pull you through a quarter faster. Mine's street only and breathing stock except for a K&N drop in. I'm curious about the odd clunking sounds. I've never heard any.

QUIKAG · Post by **QUIKAG** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 10:37 pm

Well, I wouldn't say my car makes weird noises, I meant that when I don't shift very smoothly it engages with a bit of a clunk. It's a normal sound, just reminding me that I didn't shift as smoothly as I could have. This car IS hard to drive smoothly, but when you do, it is a rewarding powertrain, as long as you can keep the sucker in lift. Launching it does suck a big one, especially with my factory 17 inch wheels/tires.I do agree that once it's rolling, it is pretty easy to upshift and downshift without too many problems, but you still have to pay attention and rev match your down shifts, etc. to be smooth.

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 10:57 pm

I'm certainly not perfect but I never hear a clunk. Maybe its the cai hitting something when the motor moves on its mounts and these mounts are soft. I find the engine tranny quite nice without lift but somehow manage to find lift every day. I haven't experienced every CAI but the one I drove didn't please me around town. There's a reason the stock intake is restrictive below 3.8K then opens the airbox flap to breath. I think a lot of us don't drive GTs smoothly at first because we're used to waiting for the rpms to drop. Shift a little quicker and it's sweet. It was made to allow for fast shifts and it's no problem to drive smoothly when your used to it. The clutch is a bit odd but once your rolling I like the shifter better than the M3 or Maserati 3000 GT I drove recently.

jcarvibegt · Post by **jcarvibegt** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 11:48 pm

Hmmm I don't know man. Our shifter better than an M3? BMW's are supposed set the standard for what a stick shift car should drive like. Anyways I know the GT doesn't have a lot of low end torque and that the engine needs to be reved to get any power out of it. But i do enjoy it and i dont' feel i have to work it to keep up with traffic. It just runs at a high rpm the most of the cars around. Has anyone driven the 2004 GT. The figures show that it is making 127 lb-ft of torque at the same 4400 rpm as the base engine. The 2003 GT Specs are 130 at 6800 RPM. Plus the HP is down from 180 to 173 at 7600RPM. Do you think that Pontiac made these changes to make for easier launching of the GT and less RPM's needed in daily driving. And do you think they did this to minimize wear and tear on the clutch?I'm very curious as how it drives compared to the 2003 version.

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:46 am

The M3 was the previous generation with something over 40k mi and the shifter really wasn't as smooth or fast. The clutch was wonderful as was the rest of the drive. Handles great but a bit too firm.

vibe owner · Post by **vibe owner** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:41 pm

Just read the whole thread and I'll weigh in about my GT (17,000 miles, 13 months old):- Yes, this car is touchy to launch, my worst in 35 years of stick shifts- I still occasionally stall it, or over-rev it and smell the clutch- Still on my original clutch, but worried- I live on a hill so uphill launches are unavoidable- My worst experience was stop-and-go traffic up a hill -- it is not hard to envision traffic that would fry the clutch in no time.All that said, I love the car. But this isn't the only wart. I just experienced the cold-weather-kills-the-battery issue, twice. But that is a different thread....

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 3:26 pm

quote:Just read the whole thread and I'll weigh in about my GT (17,000 miles, 13 months old):- Yes, this car is touchy to launch, my worst in 35 years of stick shifts- I still occasionally stall it, or over-rev it and smell the clutch- Still on my original clutch, but worried- I live on a hill so uphill launches are unavoidable- My worst experience was stop-and-go traffic up a hill -- it is not hard to envision traffic that would fry the clutch in no time.All that said, I love the car. But this isn't the only wart. I just experienced the cold-weather-kills-the-battery issue, twice. But that is a different thread....I drive my Vibe for work and have to go up and down hills. the clutch is definitely a problem. I'm almost at 9K miles on mine (i've always driven a stick except my Tundra) and sometimes i kill it. it's not as smooth to drive, but it's still fun.now i'm very worried aobut the battery in the cold issue. i live in Alaska. this is a REAL problem if it's not fixed ASAP! we've already had snow the past weekend!

theangrydwarf · Post by **theangrydwarf** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:25 am

I have been comining to this site for a little while now, and have been checking this post off and on. After reading the postings from the other members, I too have noticed some of the problems stated. I have only had my VGT since April 03, and already have 12.5k on it. It is fun to drive and I agree with the others when I say its nice, but I cant afford to pay $1000 for a clutch every other year or sooner. I hope this matter gets resolved, I would hate to get rid of mine. Keep up the good work yall.

QUIKAG · Post by **QUIKAG** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:15 pm

It seems lately that I'm having a harder time shifting smoothly than I did in the past. I have about 12.5k miles on mine now too. When I try to do a smooth engagement there is a very, very minor lurch or something. It may just be the driveline loosening up a very, very little bit. It's not anything dramatic, but it's kind of annoying because I pride myself on my good shifting ability. I drive friend's Corvettes down the 1/4 mile drag strip for them to get good times. I'm sure I'd lose that privilege if they knew I was having a hard time shifting my Vibe smoothly.

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 11:38 pm

Hi QUIKAG.Re your shifting comments, I noticed on my 1ZZ that the clutch take up was very "soft" when new, i.e., it started to engage about 1/3rds of the travel up from the floor, but wasn't fully engaged until nearly all the way up. This also meant that it had to be depressed quite far during shifts, which made the process a bit slow and clumsy. By the time I had accumulated ~15,000 km of mostly highway driving, it was much quicker, and I could shift effortlessly by depressing it only about 2".If the same sort of break in occurs on the 2ZZ, with its light flywheel and reduced low RPM torque, rather than the change from "slow and soft" to "good" that I experienced, the result could be a progression from "good" to "hair trigger and difficult".