What would You Have GM Change on Future Vibes?

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 10:36 am

I think you've accidently posted a link to your webmail from Rogers.

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 10:37 am

Which I see you caught.

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 10:43 am

I agree a start button is a cool idea on an expensive car with a "hands free card", but to put one in an inexpensive car like the Vibe is a waste in my opinion and will only add to the cost of the car.Sure gimicks are cool but they also cost money. How about memory seats and mirrors on the Vibe, heated seats too, heated steering wheel, heads-up display, clutchless shifting manual with steering wheel buttons. All are cool but take the Vibe from a inexpensive car to an expensive car. If I'm gonna spend that much money, I'll buy a BMW or Lexus, not a Pontiac.

Voitek · Post by **Voitek** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 11:04 am

quote:I agree a start button is a cool idea on an expensive car with a "hands free card", but to put one in an inexpensive car like the Vibe is a waste in my opinion and will only add to the cost of the car.Sure gimicks are cool but they also cost money. How about memory seats and mirrors on the Vibe, heated seats too, heated steering wheel, heads-up display, clutchless shifting manual with steering wheel buttons. All are cool but take the Vibe from a inexpensive car to an expensive car. If I'm gonna spend that much money, I'll buy a BMW or Lexus, not a Pontiac.You forgot about sequential gear box, limited slip diffs, active stabilizers and some fun (optional)

Yoda · Post by **Yoda** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 11:14 am

Ragingfish - all I'm saying is that it seems like a lot of people have money left over to spend on their vibes (mostly because I keep reading messages from the people on this board). The Nav system is the only real "luxury" item offered on the vibe. The beauty of options is that they pay for their own development and the base car stays cheap and still benefits from the tie in. The Altima is available with a 6 speed and a 240 hp v6. Most people still buy the 4 cylinder automatic, but the 240hp v6 gives the entire nameplate that performance feeling. Wouldn't you feel better about your base vibe knowing that there were $25K vibes out there? There are a certain number of people that would buy the car if it had leather. There are a number of people that spend 20K on a protege just because Mazda slapped an MP3 badge on it. Anyway, I'm just sharing my opinion. I think there are definitely more wasteful options to spend money on than leather. (pushbutton starter, onstar, XM radio, 5sp auto GT). The runflats are becoming more common and would allow Pontiac to leave out the spare tire and put in a simple cargo box to offset some of the cost. And like I mentioned in my last post, if you don't want the option all you'd have to do is not check the box. As it is the vibe ends up coming off as an econobox because even some compacts are available with leather seats. Also, if you run your hand up the A -pillar and over the door cutout to clear off the snow, it doesn't fall into the car. I don't even brush off the rest of the window - all I have to do is make sure the top is clear, open the door slowly and then slam the door shut. The snow is so powdery, it just falls off the entire door, clearing the window. I haven't had any cars that didn't ingest snow if you don't clean off the snow first. ***

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 11:49 am

quote:Wouldn't you feel better about your base vibe knowing that there were $25K vibes out there? There are a certain number of people that would buy the car if it had leather. There are a number of people that spend 20K on a protege just because Mazda slapped an MP3 badge on it. Yoda -- never thought about it like that, good point! It definitely changes the overall feeling of the entire car knowing there are luxury versions out there...quote:The runflats are becoming more common and would allow Pontiac to leave out the spare tire and put in a simple cargo box to offset some of the cost. Good call, i never have used a donut. Ever. And there is some primo real estate where that spare lives.

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:33 pm

How about a cell phone and a AAA membership, instead of the hard-riding, big $$ runflats that need a pressure monitoring system to ensure they aren't? (running flat, that is..)After all, how many years does the average driver go between flats? I know 45 year olds that have NEVER had one, and I had none on my '87 Metro/Suzuki/Firefly in 16 years and 360,000 km. (225,000 miles)!

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:38 pm

Actually, don't we get roadside assitance with teh warranty anyway?They could consider making the runflats an option and if you opt for them, get free cargo organizer instead of the shtinkin spare

B_artman · Post by **B_artman** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 1:07 pm

quote:I agree a start button is a cool idea on an expensive car with a "hands free card", but to put one in an inexpensive car like the Vibe is a waste in my opinion and will only add to the cost of the car.Sure gimicks are cool but they also cost money. How about memory seats and mirrors on the Vibe, heated seats too, heated steering wheel, heads-up display, clutchless shifting manual with steering wheel buttons. All are cool but take the Vibe from a inexpensive car to an expensive car. If I'm gonna spend that much money, I'll buy a BMW or Lexus, not a Pontiac.im not entirely sure how high the cost of a pushbutton starter would be seeing as it is a simpler device than the seatbelt light and sensor in the passenger seats! a friend of mine rigged up a button in his 1986 jetta for a total cost of 10 bucks, so i really dont see cost as an issue. you raise a good point about making the car too expensive with a lot of gizmos, but i think you are looking at it as if all options came in one package, say similar to a PTcruiser limited which i have seen priced really high into the 30s last year, however, if all options were able to be picked separatly, then cost would only be limited by what options you desire. for example, wouldnt a vibe with the GT engine, 6 spd clutchless tranny, sports suspension, non leather, non heated, non power windows or locks, or super duper radio sound like fun? id even leave the full sparein the trunk and include the battery back there as well for better weight distribution. but hey, thats just me. others might enjoy a normal engine, auto tranny, power everything and heated leather too boot.

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 9:01 pm

For us Customers, unlimited options are great. From the manufacturer's point, they are a double-edged sword. The profit margin is high, and you get just what you want and are willing to pay for, so Marketing loves them, but each one adds build complexity and increases the chance of a screw up, so the plant HATES them. The prospect of some odd-ball option coming down the line once every third day drives them crazy.They'd like to build Model T Fords: No options and any color you want, as long as it's black!For Engineering, the potential interactions that have to be covered off and verified can be enormous. I remember one year the Impala had a wire wheel option and also a fender skirt option. Well into production, it was discovered that if you had both, the wire wheel spinner would rip the skirt in half if you drove over a severe one-wheel bump!But, (removed), that's their problem! We know what we want: Everything!

2fatty · Post by **2fatty** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 2:04 am

Auto window up.Auto window down is great, just give me the up to match

2fatty · Post by **2fatty** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 4:04 am

thats one of the main reasons I didn't get a sunroof this time. I'll much prefer to have the extra head room. Right now I've got a temporary loaner from my dealer. Its a grand am with a sunroof. I have to say that its pretty good for head space.

2fatty · Post by **2fatty** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 4:07 am

My vibe isn't in yet. Could be in any day now (shipped Dec 26). Dealership has been leasing me a car since Sept so that I'd have some way to get around.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 5:51 am

quote:Auto window up.Auto window down is great, just give me the up to matchThey don't do that for safety reasons. If a child is messing around and hits the auto up, they could crush their neck if they don't stop it in time. At least that's what I was told...And how do you lose headroom with a moonroof? That I don't quite understand...

2fatty · Post by **2fatty** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 5:52 am

stupid kids... ruining everything

VibeSalsa · Post by **VibeSalsa** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 5:56 am

quote:They don't do that for safety reasons. If a child is messing around and hits the auto up, they could crush their neck if they don't stop it in time. At least that's what I was told...I was told the same thing and it makes sense.

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 5:58 am

quote:Auto window up.Auto window down is great, just give me the up to matchMay be auto window down on all windows or, at least, with the passanger window

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:08 am

quote:stupid kids... ruining everything agreed.

xLR8_Sd · Post by **xLR8_Sd** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:07 am

quote:My pet and only peeve---that "fagot sounding horn!!!" JamesI agree on this. the first time i used it my wife LOL at me.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:19 am

quote:My pet and only peeve---that "fagot sounding horn!!!"One word: HELLAS!!!!

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:32 am

why go single when you can go dual tone baby!!! it's REALLY easy to install...and this is coming from a guy who just figured out that there's such a thing as winter wiper blades...ullbergm guided me, if you're intrested in doing it, lemme know, i'd be glad to offer guidance...but, you can get just a single tone...but don't go to autozone...i tried the ones they sell...they're garbage. if you're gonna replace it, get a sturdy one that'll hold up.

Voitek · Post by **Voitek** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:39 am

Both my wife and my daughter complain that they have a problem what to do with their purses when they have a passanger with them. Very awkward to maneuver it into the back seat, and if you put it on the floor it's fying everywhere. Some kind of a net on the passanger side would be great (see Saturn SUV or Mercedes 240).In general I think the whole console arrangement would benefit from second look. I noticed somebody sugested the arm rest is useless and I second this. The handbrake location/operation was also mentioned. I find it difficult to reach for CDs (lower compartment) or for highway transponder which I normally put in the upper compartment under the arm rest (too ugly to attach it to the windshield). I suppose hinge on the side would be better (?)

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 7:56 am

the biggest drawback to armrest storage is that if you need someone, everyone has to get off of it...but that's not a flaw of design... i have no problems with it overall. i like the dual-compartment thing adn the hidden charger...

Bdaz1 · Post by **Bdaz1** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 12:21 am

* DRL sensor in the middle of the dash, less sensitive and switchable.* 12V outlet in the back of the consol for passenger (or other) use.* Variable volume control (w/speed) on the radio -My S10 had it!* Improved spray/nozzle for rear window washer.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 2:51 am

quote:* Variable volume control (w/speed) on the radio -My S10 had it!my sunfire had SCV too...it was great...but i'm guessing this doesn't have it cause toyota is involved...that's why i was told XM radio isn't an option...because toyota is in the mix...grrrrrrrrquote:* Improved spray/nozzle for rear window washer.better blade design too...one that covers more of the window...and they should have an optional spray nozzle aimed right at the car behind me, so when they're tailgating me, i can spray their (removed) and make them back off... and damn it, put a nice cover on the owner's manual...not some microsoft publisher creation...put a nice picture of a vibe in action or something...looks like a last minute jobber.

Yoda · Post by **Yoda** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 5:07 am

Bdaz - I like all of those!I also agree with Viotek that the center console needs a lot of work. It's like Toyota and Gm wanted to save money so they put the shifter on the dash. I'm ok with that, but then they try to make it look like a minivan (like someone would actually try to walk over to the passenger compartment), and put a dinki console in there?!? Either get the whole thing out of there so I can put stuff there, or put a full console in there with real storage space. The cupholders are unusable, the compartment is too far back, the brake lever is too far forward. If they can't make a decision, just put in a foldown thing like the CR-V. What if they got serious and put the IS300 drivetrain or the CTS drivetrain in there (rear drive) and just put a real transmission in the tunnel? Then they could work on a real center console to hold that. Not that I could even dream about buying one of those, but it might be fun to see at the autoshow or something...That reminds me, I saw the new bodykit at the Detroit Autoshow and the stupid Pontiac rep did not know anything about the availability or the price (other than it was not out yet and there might be more info on the website). After seeing it in person, I think I will need one of those (and it changes my mind about Satellite Vibes).

B_artman · Post by **B_artman** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 8:29 am

hmm... i guess there is a bit of 'van' in the general layout of the front console, but i have to say that i like the shifter in the dash. its really close from steering wheel to shifter. the point you are making i think is to seperate the passenger side from driver, like in a typical sedan, with the console melting together with the dash, thus creating two separate sides. i think that might be interesting to see but i think the problem is that the vibe is a tall car inside to begin with. if the console went all the way across like an infinity for example, it might look like you are sitting in a well. perhaps thats just my imagination of a possible interior configuration. we will see i guess

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 11:16 am

i like the dash-mounted transmission...easier to reach, more accessible...but i still think there should be an indicator on the cluster telling me what gear i'm in...my bonneville had it, and if the engine sounds differen tthan im used to, i always catch myself glancing down to the shifter to see if i'm in the wrong gear...much safer to have it on the dash. also, i think the console is separated because of that front storage bin, which i like...but i agree, there could def be a few more storage places...not sure where, but i'm confident they can work it in there.

Voitek · Post by **Voitek** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 11:29 am

I think the rear wiper mechanism location is not the greatest and some minor re-engineering would help. I saw some older model of Explorer. The mechanism was mounted inside the gate and the wiper parked below the glass so the hatch was not obstructed.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 12:23 pm

quote:I think the rear wiper mechanism location is not the greatest and some minor re-engineering would help. I saw some older model of Explorer. The mechanism was mounted inside the gate and the wiper parked below the glass so the hatch was not obstructed.agreed...the window is already pretty small, they shouldn't take it up with this...but i think they do that to make sure the wiper isn't obstructed by an improperly closed liftglass or something...just speculating though

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 5:20 pm

oh come on. everyone knows ford build high quality flawless cars.

Shadow Realm · Post by **Shadow Realm** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 12:11 am

Ragingfish, That was a great Oxymoron. Something that hasn't been mentioned is a mat like the rear mat but it would cover the whole back cargo area when the seats are folded down. Maybe a second mat to go with the existing mat kind of like a two piece mat system.Of course GM should also have a TRD like performance division so we could high performance parts through the factory. They could even call it the GXP or somthing like that. A carbon factory dash kit too.How about headrests for the rear seats that when you put the seat down they would roll back. That way you wouldn't have to pull your seat forward to get the seats to lay down flat. They have this option on Yukons and Envoys, maybe they could incorporate this from them.Leather would also be a nice option. Like in the GXP line-up. I think everything esle has already been listed earlier.Hoping for some changesShadow Realm

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 1:54 am

quote:How about headrests for the rear seats that when you put the seat down they would roll back. That way you wouldn't have to pull your seat forward to get the seats to lay down flat. They have this option on Yukons and Envoys, maybe they could incorporate this from them.I discovered the other day that you can remove the headrests on the rear seats. Just pull them all the way up and out. When you wanna put them back in, just push the little button you would to lower the headrest, and stick 'em back in.

Houston · Post by **Houston** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 3:37 am

"adds build complexity and increases the chance of a screw up, so the plant HATES them. The prospect of some odd-ball option coming down the line once every third day drives them crazy."You bet it does - and this comes from a guy who worked the Buick final assembly lines for 33 years. That "them" referred to is guys and gals like you and me. There are hundreds of different codes on the manifest that accompanies each car as it comes down the line. We get used to and memorize most of them. It's that oddball one that gets us in trouble every time. So how about all of you ordering the bright red base vibe with the fewest options you can live with and keeping those poor guys and gals out of trouble?

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 4:32 am

I agree with the centre console issues. The shifter in dash is great imo but the space freed up is not well used... actually its pretty poorly used!!!How 'bout different coloured idiot lights on the instrument pannel? Hmmm, how to say this delicately? My lovely wife sometimes has an issue with seeing the red parking brake light in the midst of the red gauges... I think we need a rear brake job now Seriously though, I like the intrument cluster... just differentiate the colour of the idiot lights please.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 6:56 am

Agreed...I drove with the brake just slightly engaged several times...had to have something done with the rotors or something cause of it...They should note the turn signal halo effect and use that to better light the idiot lights...and flash 'em...flashing tends to get attention faster than just steadiness.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 9:42 am

now no matter what, i force myself to manually make sure it's disengaged, since clearly, the light doesn't stop me.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 11:58 am

that's what i'm saying...i've forced myself into the habit of checking the brake, regardless of whether i engaged it. i realized the light wasn't enough to warn me, so i had no choice.

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 12:37 pm

Even though I've never left it on, I always manually check it and often check it whilst driving... why? I dunno, makes me feel better

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 12:42 pm

I do the same thing with the tranny...since I have a tendency to downshift for more power, I have a habit of glancing down to look what gear I'm in anytime the engine sounds different.

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 8:53 am

One could always check the tach...

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:48 am

true. but i'm not used to how many rpm's are normal for each gear yet...

2fatty · Post by **2fatty** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 3:00 am

ooo, ooo... I just thought of a feature I've sorely missed for the last 10 years. My old Mazda 626 (1986) on the drivers side had a vent option for fresh air. This meant that I could have nice cold air blowing on my me while everyone else would get warm air. I really dislike having hot air blown on my face... Give me warm air on my feet and cool air on my face any day!

Triton · Post by **Triton** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 3:08 am

How about a lumbar adjustment on the front seats? Or just the drivers side. My Eclipse had a lubar adjustment and it even adjusted the width of the seat behind your back. You could just dial it into how you liked it. That was kind of nice. And how about a dual power seat or drivers side power seat?I don't know if these have already been mentioned, but these are a couple things that I would like to see.

cds22 · Post by **cds22** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 8:15 am

What I would change...1. Heated seats!2. Get rid of all the little annoying squeaks and rattles (I've only ever owned Honda's and Toyotas before and they didn't have such problems after 5 years!)3. Move the roof rack cross bars a bit higher off the roof... it's very hard to attach bike trays etc. with the bar so close to the roof.4. Make the cargo floor a bit less slippery (no carpet please!)5. An standard transmission in the AWD would be nice.Otherwise I love it!

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 1:44 pm

There should be an indicator light for just parking lights -- i realized today, it's almost impossible to tell when they're on, because the little headlight symbol doesn't come on with the parking lights...

PBFlash · Post by **PBFlash** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 3:00 pm

Just from recent experience I would like them to change the customer service/support that we recieve when we have a problem. The availablity of parts through Pontiac is ridiculos. My Vibe sat at a dealer for 2 weeks waiting for an axle seal. I'm sure I could have walked in to a Toyota dealer and walked out with the part in a few minutes. I can live with the minor design flaws that have been mentioned here but living without mt Vibe for 2 weeks was unbearable.

esjones · Post by **esjones** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 3:32 am

quote:* Variable volume control (w/speed) on the radio -My S10 had it!* Improved spray/nozzle for rear window washer.Amen to the rear washer nozzle!!And as for the SCV on the radio... I've got it, since I have the DVD Navigation System.- Earl

SCTM · Post by **SCTM** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 9:57 am

How about lighted keyhole outside and inside and remote level arm for liftgate next to the fuel door release lever (just like my old Mazda 323 '88 has). Power outlet 115v the 100watts is not much...Replace cargo cover by anything else, it could not be worst.Have a CD player reading MP3Heated mirror and seats optional with lumbar adjustment for sure.Now, tell me why the speedo is 0-240Km??? It could be easier to read with less numbers on - up to 160 is enough don't you think?

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 11:00 am

They should put the numbers on the speedometer on the outside of the gauge, so when the needle goes up, it points at the number instead of hiding it...What is a remote level for the liftgate mean? You mean a motorized liftgate?BTW, it would be nice if there was an option for a power liftgate like the navigator...but I think we all know that's unlikely. Lighted keyhole: nice thought...Make the edge of the hood line up with the nose of the car...that half inch of overage drives me NUTS!Should be at least 200-300 watts on that A/C outlet...it would be AWeSOME if the bottom half of the rear bench lifted up and had storage underneat...but I sense the fuel tank is there, so that might not be realistic...On that note, a larger tank would be awesome. But I know a lot of my ideas have already been said, so on that note, I shut up.