Ragingfish's Car Shopping Photo Journal (56K Warning!)

[ColonelPanic]

Screw the pics... I think you should bring an audio recording device of some description so we can all hear how the test drive went. Not picking on you though, because good god, like I could do any better. I can't drive those things either. My motto for driving manuals is simply: can't find 'em, grind 'em. I'm sure those manual things are fun, but I have to stick with my slushboxes...

[kostby]

The complete kostby "How to Drive a Manual Transmission Successfully For The First Time" tutorial, written expressly for Ragingfish.[Background Sidebar: In 1974, having driven a total of two manual transmission cars, only on test-drives for a combined total of fifteen minutes, I picked up my brand new 1974 Audi Fox 4-speed manual from a dealership in downtown Indianapolis. The dealer frittered away an hour or two more than we'd anticipated, so I had to drive it home in rush-hour traffic. I intended to use the interstate to get home (lots fewer shifts required), but a sudden downpour had closed the on-ramps because of numerous crashes on the highway. Yes, I made it successfully, and only killed the engine once on the ~8-mile drive home on city streets.]You'll have far less trouble 'learning' to drive a manual trans with a V6 than if you had a peaky-4-cyl (VVTL-i anyone?) with no torque down low.Before you ever start the carFirst, practice shifting with the clutch in, to get a feel for where the gears are. If in doubt about where reverse is and how to get to it, ask the salesperson. He/she may not know either, so look in the owners' manual if all else fails, and the shift pattern isn't on the shift knob. I'm betting reverse is way over and to the right, and may have a spring-loaded 'lockout' requiring you to press the shift lever down before the lever moves into true reverse. At least the Vibe GT has the annoying beeper to let you know for certain you're in reverse! LOLIf you need to back up to start your test drive, MAKE SURE you can find reverse BEFORE you start the car!Second, find the parking brake (handle?) and the parking brake release mechanism. (Pedal or button-on-the-handle?)Third, locate the PEDALS: Gas is right, CLUTCH is left. BRAKE is the middle. Get the feel of the location of each pedal BEFORE you start the engine. It will be significantly harder to remember where the ^%$^%$&% brake pedal is when you've got the clutch to the floor and you're still rolling at 40 mph through the intersection after the light just turned red!Now that you've familiarized yourself with the shifter, the parking brake, and the pedals, you're ready to move out.Assuming the car is parked in the dealership parking lot, front end of the car in the parking space toward the building:Step 1. Push the clutch all the way in with your left foot.Step 2. Hold your right foot gently on the brake. Step 3. Select the gear. Remember, if you're parked 'nose-in' you won't want gears 1-6! You'll need to find REVERSE.Step 4. NOW start the car, keeping the clutch in and your right foot on the brake.Step 5. Now it's ok to release the parking brake. Remember, the car WILL now roll if you're on an incline and you DON'T have your foot on the brake!Step 6. Gently remove your right foot from the brake and press down on the gas with your right foot. The engine will race slightly because there is no 'load' until the clutch is engaged. That's OK. When you're first learning, it's easier if you give it a bit more gas than it truly needs, because more gas (more power from the engine) makes it easier to 'slip' the clutch a bit for a smooth start.Step 7. Let out the clutch as smoothly as possible.At this point, you'll probably kill the engine because you won't have given it quite enough gas, and your untrained left leg will let the clutch out suddenly and the car will lurch backward.Step 8. QUICKLY step on the brake to stop rolling, and press in the clutch again. If you didn't kill the engine letting out the clutch, and it's still running, stepping on the brake with the clutch still out will probably kill the engine.Step 9. Re-start the engine and go back to step 6.This time, give it a bit more gas. Repeat steps 6-9 as often as necessary until you've backed out of the parking space.Step 10. Press in the clutch with your left foot and quickly step on the brake with your right foot when you've cleared whatever obstacles are in your path backing up.Step 11. NOW shift into first gear. It'll be the one way over left and up.Repeat from step 6 onward until the car is rolling forward. First gear is probably all you need until you reach the street and hear the engine racing at 6000 rpm's. Then it's time to shift into 2nd.Clutch in, move the shift lever down into second, clutch out (it'll engage more smoothly when you're rolling), more gas to keep up with the flow of traffic. Third gear will be up, over across the gate, and up again.Fourth (if you get that far in city traffic, I'd be surprised), will be down below third, like second was below first.Fifth, up , over across the gate, and up again.Sixth, down below fifth, like first and third.REMEMBER when you DO have to stop for a stop sign or light, that you'll need to put in the clutch, step on the brake, and while the clutch is in, move the gear lever back into first before starting out again. It seems like a lot to remember until you've done it for a few minutes. Then it becomes fun! The good news is that after the initial 10 to 15 minutes of total frustration, you'll have it down pretty well, and won't EVER forget how to drive a 'stick'.It will remain 'fun' for the rest of your life, unless you live where bumper-to-bumper 10 mph "rush hour traffic" is the norm 90% of the time. Then just FORGET about a manual transmission, and go with an automatic. When you become rich and famous and move to the country, THEN you can get a manual tranny.Let us know how it goes with the GTP!

[ColonelPanic]

Very nice howto, kostby. That should be up somewhere as a sticky, I say. Good stuff.Quote »You'll have far less trouble 'learning' to drive a manual trans with a V6 than if you had a peaky-4-cyl (VVTL-i anyone?) with no torque down low.I have to agree there. The one vehicle I've driven the most with a manual is a '94 Chevy 1-ton chassis/cab dually 4x4, 454 and a 5-speed with a dump bed that my dad owns... I've killed that thing a bunch of times but I have to say, that torque stuff you speak of sure is helpful for the standard shift newbie! I keep thinking back to when I had to drive my old roommate's Sentra 5-speed a few years back, it didn't seem to have much torque low, and I had a LOT of problems with that thing. Yes, it would seem that 7.4 liters of displacement + the wrong gear was not as tragic as 1.something liters + the wrong gear. During the first mile ever driven in each, I didn't have to keep starting that truck as much as I did the Sentra, that's for sure. Mike should be ok with the G6 GTP. There should be enough oomph there to make it forgiving.I still suck at driving a manual though, maybe someday I will learn and refine my skills... One big problem I have though, is that there is just too much going on at once. I don't know if I could ever overcome that. It's not bad in the country where there are no stops. But in the city, nope. I wish Mike luck with the crazy NJ drivers as he drives that manual! I couldn't do it!Good luck to you bro! You can do it, for you are the ragingfish!

[ragingfish]

Thanks for the tips Kostby! Quite a how-to you got there...Well, I went for my test drives. Well, test drive anyway.I opted NOT to drive the GTP for a few reasons.(A) While not required, GM does recommend the use of premium fuels in the GTP (unlike the Vibe which requires it.(B) As I already was aware, the GTP fuel economy is sub-par, at best.(C) Because I was unhappy spending that kind of money for poor fuel economy, I felt to not even drive the car would be smarter so that way I don't know what I'm missing out on.Also, my dealer made a great point when I talked to him. As he walked over to me, I said to him that if the Torrent got decent numbers in the fuel economy department, I'd be in one. It's a great looking SUV, I really like it. He then said to me later on, "you just told me the Torrent was out because of the poor fuel economy. Clearly, that's important to you. Why would you go for a GTP that not only recommends premium fuel (a minimum of a $0.20 premium per-gallon in NJ), clearly has poor economy, and also commands a premium just to buy one?" I thought it was a very well thought-out point. And obviously, since my dealer is trying to sell me DOWN to a GT away from a GTP, he isn't just out to make money, he's out to put me in the car that best meets my needs.ANYWAY, I test-drove a 4 cylinder just to see what kind of power it had. I have to tell you -- for a 2.4L 4-cylinder engine, that thing MOVES! I was VERY impressed with it's response. However, I decided as nice as the response was, and despite it's smooth ride, and very respectful fuel economy numbers, I was NOT going to go for it. Why? Mainly the lack of options. You can't even get fricken fog lights on the 4 cylinder. It was the biggest turnoff.SO, here I am. I've eliminated two of my 3 options: a 4 cylinder and the GTP.Thus, there is one. The GT. But what body style?I struggled...muchly. And I had my dealer option each one out and price them out for me. Despite it's higher base price, the coupe came out about $2k cheaper optioned how I like.Unfortunately, I had to run at this point as I was on my way to work. But I pretty much am sure I know what I'm getting.So, with much confidence I can finally say, the decision is made!Assuming no other bombshells or conflicts arise, I will be getting a2006 Pontiac G6 GT coupe.Color, options, and the rest TBD. But at least I've picked a fricken car.Oh, and if you're wondering, I asked the dealer for a BALLPARK figure on my Vibe's trade-in value.Without having it formally appraised, he took a stab...and being generous, I should be getting somewhere between 4 and 4500. That f'ing SUCKS!

[millster]

Cool! Sounds like it went well!Congrats on the "decision".

[ColonelPanic]

Very cool, Mike. See, I guess many of us were on the right track months ago when we said G6 coupe was it. Quote »Without having it formally appraised, he took a stab...and being generous, I should be getting somewhere between 4 and 4500. That f'ing SUCKS!*jaw hits the floor*That's terrible! I don't know your current mileage, but based off kbb trade in value at the 62K guess I took and "good" condtion, I see a $7015 value. So, your car has lost somewhere along the lines of $16,000 over the last 3 years? I hate to see what my piece of junk appraises at, the numbers you just got scare me quite a bit! How are you doing on your loan? I hope you don't go too upside down. Good luck with what you decide and I hope that they don't try to screw you too bad.

[kostby]

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »Without having it formally appraised, he took a stab...and being generous, I should be getting somewhere between 4 and 4500.And your family has done business with this jerkwad (RASSAS) for YEARS? NO WAY! IMHO, you're getting your @ss gift-wrapped and handed to you if you take that insult of an offer.Since you've decided NOT to get a Solstice, there's no real hurry now, is there? Personally, I think I'd be re-modding RagingVibe at this point. Drive it until it's paid for and/or the wheels fall off!

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by kostby »And your family has done business with this jerkwad (RASSAS) for YEARS? NO WAY! IMHO, you're getting your @ss gift-wrapped and handed to you if you take that insult of an offer.This was a completely off-the-wall figure. He didn't break out the appraisal guide except get a starting figure (being $9500 for a 03 in perfect condition with 35000).I remind you all my dealer is like family. He almost is actually. My dealer's father was my mother's father's best friend. My family has been buying from Rassas since before my mother was even born. That's about 60-70 years of business. They're not scamming me, I assure you. If anything, they might end up giving me more for it then it's worth.I have 64,000 miles (and put on about 500 a week), and a car in HORRIBLE shape, so it seems fair.I'm taking the hit mostly on BODY CONDITION (surprise surprise!). The massive dent in my driver door from my deer hit in 2003, the scratched and chipped-to-hell paint is killing me. And of course, my windshield with it's 3 cracks obviously needs replacement. The interior of the car is fair at-best. The replacement door panels I bought from a junker are just that - junk. They're in HORRID shape and frankly, I expect to be told they'll have to be replaced. That's $200 I lost right there from the purchase of said panels.All in all, I think it is a fair estimate. You guys really don't have a grasp on how horrible the condition of my car is -- physically. It runs more-or-less ok, but there's still that mysterious engine noise that after a week in the shop is still there. I may be getting hit on that too.Again, this is all speculative. I'll find out for sure when I drop the car off for "official" appraisal sometime next week.Quote »Since you've decided NOT to get a Solstice, there's no real hurry now, is there? Personally, I think I'd be re-modding RagingVibe at this point. Drive it until it's paid for and/or the wheels fall off!Since I got the promotion and decided to treat myself to a gift for my hard work -- that gift being the new car -- I've had my heart set on a new set of wheels. I can't at this point just put it off without a seriously vicious reason (pretty much financial reasons being the only thing that could put me off, and since that's not an issue...). I'm one of those guys who, once I set my mind on doing something, it's near impossible to change it!!!! Stubborn? Abso-freakin-lutely. Besides. As I've said in a few other posts, this car is showing it's age. It doesn't run as wonderfully as it used to, it doesn't get the economy it should, and it looks like crap. Frankly, at times, with the condition of the paint and body, it's embarassing to be seen in it. I love the Vibe...and it will ALWAYS have a place in my heart as my first true car (I never "bonded" with my Bonneville, Grand Am, or Sunfire as much as I did the Vibe) and I'll always remember how it led me to this site -- where I've learned more then I ever would have imagined I could have. But when all is said and done, it's time to move on...

[ColonelPanic]

Mike, your car looked a hell of a lot better than mine did on the inside the last time I saw it, which was June. Up until last week, I had trash piled up in the rear floor from the bottom all the way so that it was level with the back seat. The seats are stained all to hell, gotta love that nasty slate interior I have and the Vibe's lovely uber stain resistant fabric. Add a complete slob on top of that who spills coffee and soda all over the place, and you get the picture. The seat moves as the car moves, that's a bonus. The silver dash trim is scratched to hell and the silver finish is now gone around the vents. The radio bezel has been drilled for LED's. The climate control lights are not working and the vent knob will not move fully to the left anymore. The whole assembly does not even clip into place anymore, anything that could hold it in was broken when I tried to fix the damn bulbs so now the only things holding it in is that one screw and the trim itself. The whole piece moves around when you try to turn the knobs. The driver's window/door lock trim panel keeps popping loose. On both front door panels, the speaker grilles are cracked, and I have yet to figure out how that happened. The rear door panels have several spots where they've been eaten into by various cargo. The carpet has seen better days, front and rear. Let's not forget the lovely engine speed dependent vibration in the dash, the rattles, and the squeaks, moans and groans that occur from time to time. It's had a rough life, and all of the damage has been over the last year. I think your car looked pretty damn immaculate when compared to mine. At least people could sit down in yours without a 10+ minute trash relocation session prior to people sitting down. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, it could be worse!And tell them to shove it about the door panels... What's so bad about 'em? Post some pics, I would be interested to see the damage on those. Just throw some armor all on 'em and be done with it. For the outside, that sucks. I forgot about the damage you had there. It really didn't look THAT bad to me though. Mechanically, here is what I would do: They've been working on the mystery noise for a while now, under warranty. If that is seriously going to harm the value you will receive on trade-in, I wouldn't trade until you can get that resolved. Been there, done that. Since you have the GMPP, GM needs to take the hit on that one, not you! I know they've charged you out the wazoo thus far for this issue, but they've really replaced all they can replace at this point which would be a wear item. Stay on their (removed) until they fix the damn thing, I say. It's hard to trade cars with a dealer that has worked on yours all the damn time though. I'm not doing that again. No telling what that does to your trade-in value, I know for a fact it screwed me on the last one. But Mike, hang in there bud... And remember, you're trading in a car, not trying to sell your house. You don't have to nitpick, don't worry about your car so much. Just do what you can, get the most you can out of your trade, and get a car you will enjoy. You deserve that.

[ragingfish]

In regards to your damper control knob:Make sure you haven't kinked the recirculate mode trigger cable. I found in the past if I didn't let that cable hang freely and it got twisted among the various wires from all my hundreds of mods, it jammed up, causing the fan mode knob to jam up wtih it.Yank the radio and make sure both the fan mode cable and recirculate trigger cable are both free and unobstructed.

[ColonelPanic]

Cool, I'll try that. Thank ya.

[Pablo1669]

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »the decision is made!Assuming no other bombshells or conflicts arise, I will be getting a2006 Pontiac G6 GT coupe.Welcome to the family, you won't be disappointed with your decision

[tnpartsguy]

Congrates on making a decision Mike! I know Gen-Vibe will miss you as an explorer and a ground-breaker; but you'll still be around to chat with.....have you found a G6 board yet?

[drunkenmaxx]

great jumpin jahosafet! (sp?)i can finally sleep at night!

[ragingfish]

Thanks y'all for bearin wit me for, what, about 6 fricken months now? It's been a VERY long and arduous process...and there were days were I thought it wasn't gonna happen...But it did! Now I Just need to finalize my options...pick a color...and try to locate the car! If there's one nearby and I don't have to build, I'm *hoping* to have it by next week...the following at the latest. Of course, if I must build, that'll be a whole 'nother story...

[BlueCrush]

Thank God! (j/k) Can't wait to see some pics once you have her.

[ZubenElGenubi]

Well it's about time! You have no idea how my life has been put on hold waiting for the results of your epic search.I understand you're wanting to reward yourself for the promotion and I hope it turns out to be every bit as rewarding as you hope. When delivery is finally made, pics please.

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by ZubenElGenubi »When delivery is finally made, pics please.Guys. PLEASE! This is ME we're talking about! Picture (removed)! Fear not...there shall be some!

[Kari]

See, I was right! That car rocks...I'm glad you picked it. Can't wait to ride in it sometime! *crosses her fingers and hopes he gets the blue*

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by Kari »*crosses her fingers and hopes he gets the blue* Make yourself heard!VOTE!http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=19430

[Kari]

My voice is now heard Now other people need to vote for BLUE...BLUE BLUE BLUE...that color rocks!

[ramenboy...]

"i can finally sleep at night!"ha!!!! nice onegood choice, rage. hope you stick around the forum

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by ramenboy... »"i can finally sleep at night!"ha!!!! nice onegood choice, rage. hope you stick around the forumThanks man!Rest assured, I ain'ts goin nowheres!

[ragingfish]

One thing I just noticed about the G6...The headlamp assemblies have orange lenses for the ambers instead of just orange bulbs. That means no silverstar signals for me. Those lasted about 2 years...and I loved 'em.

[spoonman]

Mike,Just thought I would say congrats!! My wife got a G6 GT a few months ago.... I really like it. Would you believe I haven't ven driven it yet. If I would have held off getting my Vibe for a few more months, i would have concidered it as well. Good luck, can't wait to see the pics and hope you stick around here. Oh yeah... and if you find a G6 forum, please let me know so I can pass it along to my wife...

[ragingfish]

There's two forums I'm currently aware of: http://www.clubg6.com/ http://www.g6ownersclub.com/Can't speak to the content of either one, as I only briefly browsed them in the past.UPDATE: Spoke with the 'rents, I have to make my final decision on all options, colors, and make sure I definitely want the coupe (almost positive I do) by tomorrow night. Saturday morning we head to the dealer to work out pricing, financing, locating a car if one's available, or ordering if not. Basically, by Saturday night, I will have definitive info on what I'm getting, and when I'm getting it.

[AZViking]

Instead of creating a new post and since the Solstice took up most of this thread, I thought I'd post it here...Anyone else get an invite from their Pontiac dealer for the "Solstice Preview Night?" Ours is tomorrow from 4-8pm. Unless I'm reading it wrong, I see the phrase "you are cordially invited to see AND DRIVE our exclusive Pontiac, the 2006 Solstice" Ok... now I've gotta go.Each invite also comes with a free gift of a Samsonite 2-in-1 travel bag, and a chance to win a 42" Plasma TV (Odds of winning TV = 1:7500) Chrysler did this when they introduced the 300C, all we got was a 2004 Silver dollar. and we didn't get to drive the car.

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by AZViking »Instead of creating a new post and since the Solstice took up most of this thread, I thought I'd post it here...Anyone else get an invite from their Pontiac dealer for the "Solstice Preview Night?" Ours is tomorrow from 4-8pm. Unless I'm reading it wrong, I see the phrase "you are cordially invited to see AND DRIVE our exclusive Pontiac, the 2006 Solstice" Ok... now I've gotta go.Each invite also comes with a free gift of a Samsonite 2-in-1 travel bag, and a chance to win a 42" Plasma TV (Odds of winning TV = 1:7500) Chrysler did this when they introduced the 300C, all we got was a 2004 Silver dollar. and we didn't get to drive the car.Hell no!I'd give ANYTHING just to drive one...even down the block.

[ragingfish]

Well, it's official.The Vibe is in it's last days. And I mean days.I should have my new car by Saturday...The dealer has to get it from another dealer and all that jazz...But, here's the winner!2006 PONTIAC G6 GT COUPEExterior: Electric Blue MetallicInterior: Ebony, Impression ClothOptions:MX0 - 4 speed Automatic Transmission w/ Manual Shift CapabilitiesAP3 - Keyless Entry w/ Remote StartCF5 - Power Moon RoofD49 - Power MirrorsJF4 - Adjustable Power PedalsJL9 - Front/Rear Disc Brakes w/ ABSNW9 - Electronic Traction ControlPFE - 17x7 ChromeTech wheelsQWN - All-season 225/50/17 tires (likely to suck)U2K - Digital Audio System / XMU85 - 8 speaker premium audio system w/ outboard ampliferUC6 - in-dash 6 disc changerUE1 - OnStarMSRP - $25,300. Obviously, I'm not paying that much. The only option I couldn't get that I wanted was side airbags. Unfortunately, NO car in the state had all the stuff I DEMANDED as well as side airbags. I was gonna build, but with a possibile 8 week delay, I opted not to, as that puts me in mid-december. Plus, I have a bad wheel on the Vibe, which I told the dealer NOT to replace last time it was in. Service guys said no big, but if I wasn't replacing the car soon, the wheel needed to be replaced. If I built a car, I would have had to buy a new wheel...and who knows what else.I have to go in Monday to get a final appraisal for the Vibe. It'll be ugly. No doubt about it. I suspect I might need a proctologist...

[ragingfish]

Continued from: http://forums.genvibe.com/zero...37668Quote, originally posted by tnpartsguy »Mike, make them switch the tires BEFORE you take delivery if they aren't what you want. I know we will do it for a customer for the difference in the tire price, which is usually less than $100.I won't ask that of them because they're doing so much other stuff for me in terms of making the deal happen...besides...with winter just around the corner, i'm going to get steelies and a set of green diamonds so it's no big.And frankly, I'm nervous that something might happen to the wheels in the process and damage them before i can even take it off the lot.

[ColonelPanic]

What are you going to do about the automatic dimming mirror, or does the car already have one?That's a must.

[tnpartsguy]

I'm glad to see you went with the standard sunroof, and not the gizmo.

[ToolGuy]

Congrats! A two G6 family!I am sure the dlr will find you the car verses building even if it comes from out of state, not many are ordered these days.

[Pablo1669]

Quote, originally posted by tnpartsguy »I'm glad to see you went with the standard sunroof, and not the gizmo.Not me, that thing is HUUUUUUGE. I love everything about mine, you're missing out Raging.

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic »What are you going to do about the automatic dimming mirror, or does the car already have one?Well, if you're referring to the auto dim/map light/compass/temp mirror from the Vibe, it's got a waiting list. But the people who were interested were warned if I didn't get OnStar I'd keep it. Since I AM getting OnStar, I'm gonna try to locate an OnStar mirror with auto-dim capabilities from a totalled Caddy or something and hope it either plug-and-plays or can be retrofitted with minimal modification. I agree though, it's something I DEFINITELY want. Will miss the compass though, I don't think there are any OnStar mirrors with dim AND compass.Quote, originally posted by tnpartsguy »I'm glad to see you went with the standard sunroof, and not the gizmo.What, the panoramic? That thing is f'ing amazing. It was (or still is (see below)) one of the major factors in my coupe/sedan dilemma. My dad's car has it and it's freaking awesome. I've noticed, however, he has started to develop a rather loud rattle and what sounds to be like an air-leak in his roof. When I drive it, the rattle and whistle from the roof drive me nuts. It's scheduled to get checked out next time the dealer has it for maintenance. My parents don't notice those things as much as I do. I'm giving GM the benefit of the doubt that the 06 models may not have that issue, or, it's just an issue of adjustment and tightening that - should I end up with the sedan (again, see below) and experience similar issues, it would be a snap to fix.On that note, I bring up my most recent issue:RAGINGFISH HAS A DILEMMA!!!Ok folks, we got a problem. Sort of.Took the Vibe in today for formal appraisal. Still not sure what the number is, the guy has to get back to the dealer later today and I'll find out then. But here's the deal.My dealer called the other dealer that has the coupe on the lot to see if the car is a demo, sold, etc. The car is available. Perfect. Great. Awesome. Even since I swore myself on a coupe, I've always felt that for some reason I shouldn't get it. Something about this car has made me uneasy, and I haven't been able to put my finger on it. But I LOVE the fact that it's new, it's different, few people have one, and it'll get noticed either in a parking lot or on a road. Call me selfish, but even if for only a few months, I want to be the guy that has the car everyone stops to check out. That was a big reason I wanted a Solstice. I want to get noticed. I did when I first got the Vibe (sort of), but it quickly diminished. The coupe can give me that again. The sedan, well, it might, but it might not.Anyway after test driving the coupe Saturday, I had two main concerns. 1) rear window visibilitiy is VERY limited. Even less then the Vibe. The steep slope of the window combined with the headrests on the back seat make the window almost worthless. For reference, the rear window on the stock rearview on the Vibe fills about 90% or so of the mirror's visible surface. On the coupe, the entire rear window fills *maybe* 60%. Put two people back there, and you can't see crap. Not necessarily a huge deal. The other concern I had was that the roof is LOW. Obviously. Look at the roof profile of the car. But in the back seat, even I barely brushed the headliner as I was moving around. It's TIGHT. And a bit hard to get out of. Legroom is GREAT. The recesses in the front seats - same as the ones in the sedan - really make legroom quite spacious. But me, I would never get in back of a coupe. I'm not really claustrophobic, but since my Sunfire, I'm a bit leary of 2-door cars -- ESPECIALLY the back seat. I sat in one again today, however, and even in the front seat, I felt a bit claustrophobic. It could just be in my head though...Anyway, I digress. Just for S&G, I asked my dealer to run a quick local search on a sedan. I wanted same color, same options. Well, they found one. Same color. Same options. PLUS panoramic roof and side airbags. Where? The same dealer as the coupe!!!! And the price? Only $1200 more for both features. Sounds like a lot, but in terms of payments, it evens out to about $18 a month more. Negligble IMHO.So my dilemma is -- do I stay with the coupe, get noticed, and hope I never have a problem with rearview and/or tall friends, or do I go with the sedan, lose one big thing the coupe has -- uniqueness and visibility -- get the airbags and the wicked-cool roof, and also end up with the same fricken car as my dad. I don't know what to do!!!Oh, here's the clencher. The dealer expected to hear back from the appraiser by noon. It's 1pm. Before I left, the guy told me when they call me, they'll tell me if the sedan is also up for grabs, and if it is, I am giving myself the personal deadline of 30 - 45 minutes after I hang up to call back with a final decision. I will tell them TODAY which car I want. They said if I decide today, they'd likely grab it tomorrow (assuming the other dealer doesn't play games), and I could have it as early as Wednesday.So GenVibers...WHAT'S A MAN TO DO???

[damronjr]

What do you need it for? Just you? Any plans in the future that might require or at least be more convenient w/ 4 doors? How do you feel about them looks wise? It sound slike the 4-door would be a better deal, plus it may even be better insurance-wise as well. Hard to say, go with your gut!

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by damronjr »What do you need it for? Just you? Any plans in the future that might require or at least be more convenient w/ 4 doors? How do you feel about them looks wise? It sound slike the 4-door would be a better deal, plus it may even be better insurance-wise as well. Hard to say, go with your gut! Well, 5 days a week it's just me, but I do occasionally go out with friends, and hopefully (someday? i hope? PLEASE GOD?) a girlfriend/fiancee/wife. But I know at my old job I often played DD or just always ended up driving. So 4 people wouldn't be uncommon. As for looks, my ONLY gripe with the coupe is that long-freakin-(removed) rear quarter panel that goes from the door to the back end. It's so long, unbroken (in the sense of no lines, seams, or anything else to break up the mononotony and mundaneness of the steel and make it look "shorter) and makes the car look weird. I do like the rear end though, even though just about EVERYONE I showed pics of it too accused it of being a solara and/or G35 ripoff. And I heard GM is eventually releasing a spoiler add-on for it that I have a feeling might make it resemble the Pursuit coupe a bit more (which I love, btw). As for my gut, well, that's the problem. It's all twisted and screwed up. That's why I've been struggling with this particular decision (coupe vs. sedan) for at least a month now. I just can't read my own feelings.As for insurance, the coupe and sedan actually both came out just about the same. The difference is negligible.

[millster]

Wow. Tough issue for sure.I can tell you this much though. When I bought the Sebring, I was the same way. I liked standing out with the Vibe. I knew the Sebring wouldn't provide that but at the same time I know there are ways to change that. As for feeling claustrophobic, any car is going to do that to you coming from the Vibe. Even with the moonroof, the Vibe is cavernous! I had trouble with that feeling in my car at first too. Even felt like I was having to look under the roof line to see out. I've since adjusted and am doing fine with it now. I would guess you would adjust to the coupe just fine.That said, I wouldn't know what to do in your position, but honestly I would probably end up with the sedan just for the passenger hauling ability. I don't often use the back seat of my car, but it's nice to have just in case it's needed.

[tnpartsguy]

The only reason I brought up the panaramic sunroof is because they have had a quite a few problems with it. I too prefer a 2 door car, but the low roofline on the G6 really made me nervous, esp. if I was coming out of the Vibe, which has one of the best rooflines, even with a sunroof

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by tnpartsguy »The only reason I brought up the panaramic sunroof is because they have had a quite a few problems with it.Can you elaborate? Just trying to inform myself, might help make the decision easier...

[ragingfish]

Just heard back from teh dealer. The appraiser will give me $5,000 for the Vibe. About $1200 more then I expected! But...he says he needs to know in 10 minutes which car I want...AAAAAAAAAAH!Ok, gonna go make quick decisions...STAY TUNED!!!

[rebbierae]

Not that my opinion counts for squat, but I say get the coupe. You had the fun (at first), but ultimately VERY practical Vibe. As of now, you are unencumbered with wife, kids, responsibilities--i.e. the 4-door family sedan. Go with something FUN, something that WILL get you noticed!When, in the future, you have all the above mentioned things within your grasp, hopefully the trade-in value of the coupe will be such that you can trade up for a Torrent, or which ever new Pontiac you have your eye on by that time! Just my two cents! The coupe is gorgeous!!

[tnpartsguy]

Glass coming out of tracks, wind noise, water leaks, and parts availabilty.

[ragingfish]

Yeah, I had a feeling you were gonna say that....My dad has been experiencing rattles...and apparantly at least 3 other people he's spoken to with G6's have the same rattles. Now we haven't experienced water leaks, or glass issues, or anything else. Just air leaks and rattles. Do you know if GM has a fix for these issues, or is it one of those things that they acknowledge is a problem but don't have the slightest clue how to fix (such as the alleged problem with the G6 where some cars experience sporadic and repeated self-locking/unlocking issues when it rains and apparantly is - at this point - a mystery).

[ragingfish]

*sigh* it's been an hour since I was gonna call back my sales guy...I'm absolutely freaking TORN!!!! I don't know what to do and I want to scream. I REALLY like the sedan...and loving the panoramic roof...but am deathly afraid of what apparantly has become the inevitable guaranteed rattle. If I knew that there was hope that I could fix it, I'd say who cares, I'll find a way, and go with the 4 door. I'm just very afraid of that coupe...I honestly think since my accident in my Sunfire I've been petrified of 2 door cars...and I am just afraid I will get this car and never be happy with it...or worse yet, be uncomfortable or flat out scared driving it...All my dad is saying is based on his convo with the dealer, the rattles seems almost guaranteed with the pano roof...but a sedan with a regular roof seems like a cop out...and I think I would always wonder "what if the car I woulda bought didn't have the rattle problems?"I'm trying so hard to find ONE thing that can help draw me either way and make me happy with a decision, but I'm just not finding it...can anyone offer ANY thoughts or advice here?It's just that, I get a car, I'm with that car for a few years at least...I don't want to make a decision I'll regret...And I can't delay this more then another 20 miunutes or so. I've put it off for weeks saying "I'll have an answer, I'll have an answer" but every time the deadline comes and goes, I'm still at a loss. I timed this to work with my work schedule, and I don't want to delay it anymore and lose any more money on the Vibe...I NEED to decide now...BUT WHAT TO DO????

[millster]

Go with the sedan. It's still a G6, still sporty and would keep you from being nervous about the coupe. Plus, it'll be practical if you need it to be practical.As for the roof rattling, there will surely be a solution for it. I cannot imagine they would allow something like that to occur without repair.Go sedan and don't look back.

[NSimkins]

Quote, originally posted by millster »As for the roof rattling, there will surely be a solution for it. I cannot imagine they would allow something like that to occur without repair.I agree, go sedan! As for the rattles, isn't that what the warranty is for? Did you (are you) go with the extended warranty?

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by NSimkins »I agree, go sedan! As for the rattles, isn't that what the warranty is for? Did you go to extended warranty?The rattles concern me only because GM supposedly has no known solution for them at this time...it's one of those "we can adjust it, and it MIGHT fix it" deals.

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »*..can anyone offer ANY thoughts or advice here?Do the less glamorous and less impulsive thing. Keep the Vibe, pay it off, keep saving money, be happy with what you have and work toward good financial posture for the future. Not the advice you wanted, but hell, you asked

[ragingfish]

Joat -- your advice is well taken, but unfortunately, keeping the Vibe is not financially logical. It needs a LOT of work and money put into it before it's running the way it should be.That being said, I called the dealer back and told them I'd make a decision by morning. I've been sitting in front of this damned machine since about 2ish trying to come to some sort of decision, and I just can't. Every time I try, I go to dial them, and all of a sudden, I don't want to anymore...