Adding "retained accessory power" to the windows

jeffgtx · Post by **jeffgtx** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:57 am

in a nutshell, can i reroute the power supply going to the windows and use whatever one (in my 2005 which is important remember) is running for 20 minuts after the ignition goes off that is powering the mirror maplights? and therefore... have power going to the window for 20 minutes after i turn off the ignition?where is it that magical 20 minute pwoer source?

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:30 am

I haven't seen anyone have a 2005 electrical diagram yet, maybe someone will speak up.what gets cut off after 20 minutes, 12V or ground?The power windows get power from the power window relay. In the 2003 models, this relay is energized by the gauge fuse, closes to provide 12V to the PW circuit. In the 2003 models, the PW relay is on the top of the under dash fuse block, there are three identical relays in a row, the PW relay is the one in the middle.Instead of trying to rewire the fuse block, I would probably try to rig some sort of extension wires to have the relay float off the normal mounting point, and instead of using the normal ignition and ground to activate the relay, use whatever is switched to control the mirror map light (12V or ground) to close that relay.

03VibeGT6Spd · Post by **03VibeGT6Spd** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:40 am

I have to agree with Joatmon.Hell maybe, I'll even do that I sure do miss that option.

jeffgtx · Post by **jeffgtx** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:57 pm

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »Instead of trying to rewire the fuse block, I would probably try to rig some sort of extension wires to have the relay float off the normal mounting point, and instead of using the normal ignition and ground to activate the relay, use whatever is switched to control the mirror map light (12V or ground) to close that relay. can you go into more on this? i don't follow. i think i know what you mean but am not sure how to physically do it.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:03 pm

Not sure if this would be any help, but... The 2005 Matrix brochure shows retained accessory power on the XR and XRS, I do believe...Maybe it could be something as simple as plugging in some sort of module that you could get from toyota... Don't know, maybe someone with a 2005 matrix service manual can chime in and help with the schematics...

03VibeGT6Spd · Post by **03VibeGT6Spd** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:51 pm

Quote, originally posted by jeffgtx »can you go into more on this? i don't follow. i think i know what you mean but am not sure how to physically do it.Here is a couple links with details on how to wire up relays.If you can't use a relay, you shouldn't be messing under your dash. http://www.underthedash.com/relayindex. ... 00-001.pdf

jeffgtx · Post by **jeffgtx** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:56 pm

yes it says it is part of the shift lockfeature.looking at the matrix service manual (and owners manual for that matter) they make no specific mention of it. i expect the diagram to outline with and without this feature, but it says nothing.guess i will have to take a look tomorrow morning. i am going to be under there anyway.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:36 pm

I used a wire to bypass a relay to make the center console 12V power outlet be on all the time. (link) I used some terminal lugs to make a jumper,(pic1 / pic2) I was thinking you could use some spade type terminal lugs to plug into the sockets where the PW relay currently is, and use female spade lugs to connect to the relay, except instead of just running straight extension wires from the fuse block to the relay, run the 12V relay coil connection to your retained power source. On the retained power, what are all the things that get retained power?

jeffgtx · Post by **jeffgtx** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:03 am

all i know that 100% gets it is the map lights

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:52 pm

Can you explain how the map lights behave, what about them acts like they have retained power?Can you telll if after 20 minutes, the 12V supply to the mirror map lights goes away, the ground to the map lights goes away, or if maybe the 20 minute auto turnoff is built into the mirror itself?

Jahntassa · Post by **Jahntassa** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:05 pm

You could probably use something like the following method. Instead of 'Radio's Accessory wire', have it feed the input of the power window relay.Ganked from the12volt.com"If you wish to keep the radio (or any other device that is powered by an accessory circuit) on until a door is opened, you can do so by creating a latch when the accessory is turned on with the relay shown below on the left, then breaking ground to the latch when a door is opened as shown with the relay below on the right. While this will keep the radio on, the entire accessory circuit will see 12V+ until a door is opened with the key in the off position." "If you want to prevent 12V+ from feeding back into the accessory circuit or have more than one device on this circuit and do not want all of them to stay powered, you can isolate the device you want to stay powered by cutting the accessory lead going to it and adding two 1 amp diodes and an additional relay as shown below. The first diode near the top left of the diagram is to prevent 12V+ from going back into the accessory circuit. The second diode between terminals 87 and 86 prevents the radio from pulling current through the first diode. If the second diode is not in place, the first diode will become toast. The additional relay is needed to prevent the radio from turning off when the key is in the accessory position and a door is open."

jeffgtx · Post by **jeffgtx** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:58 am

well well well, look who woke up from carPC land! thanks, that looks pretty simple. I will have to compare it to the schematic i have and see how hard that would be.joatman, king of relays, any comment?

Jahntassa · Post by **Jahntassa** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:33 am

Actually...it was carpc land that got me that! I had to make a 'momentary' relay to get my screen to automatically turn on, and I saw the RAP relay schemes on the same page!It's a curious idea...I'm trying to think what random thing I could use it for...

jeffgtx · Post by **jeffgtx** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:43 pm

are those existing relays or two that get added?your carpc project is just paying dividends everywhere!

Jahntassa · Post by **Jahntassa** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:14 am

Add those. Pretty standard automotive relays. Depending on the window relay circuit, you might need to try the second setup of relays, so you don't power the rest of the car with the first setup. Since the windows power off Ignition, that's entirely possible.Anyone got a schematic of the relay for the power windows?

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:10 am

Quote, originally posted by Jahntassa »Anyone got a schematic of the relay for the power windows?

207051=7353-pwr.jpg

jeffgtx · Post by **jeffgtx** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:36 pm

doest thou haveth the part numbers for said relays?

Jahntassa · Post by **Jahntassa** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:08 pm

Okay...sorta..what I needed.. I need to know what ELSE the relay connects to!Basically I need to see if we have to worry about 'feeding back' into the rest of the ignition circuit.. so I don't suppose you could post the surrounding area of that lovely relay picture..?

jeffgtx · Post by **jeffgtx** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:18 pm

mine is a big pic. i could email it if ya want.P5 is fused 12vp2 gndp1 is tied to the ignition relay and also to the ig switch and inner mirrorp3 feed p/w module, the left rear window and the moonroof, if equipped.

Jahntassa · Post by **Jahntassa** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:56 pm

Okay, so it shouldn't be too hard. You could either use a relay or a Diode to prevent voltage from sneaking back to the rest of the car.Basically you need to find a place where you can get to the wire on pin 1 without it connecting anywhere else. Do the RAP relay thing there, then put a relay / large diode on the opposite side of the relay so it'll prevent voltage from getting to the rest of the car.Gotta run to work, but i'll think about the relay idea..

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:06 pm

I knew you would have wanted more of the diagram, but since you only asked for the schematic of the relay, that's what I gave you. It was a joke The PW relay has a constant 12V on pin 5, which connects to pin 3 to power the power window stuff when the relay closes. The coil of the relay has pin 2 grounded, and pin 1 is connected to ignition 12V. turn ignition on, relay closes and powers the PW circuit.In your relay diagram, (according to http://www.teamrocs.com/techni...s.htm ) the relay coil is pins 85 and 86, pin 30 is common, pin 87a is normally closed, pin 87 is normally open. Voltage across 85 & 86 closes the relay, disconnecting 30 and 87a, and connecting 30 and 87. Take away voltage on the coil, 20 and 87 are disconnected, 30 and 87a are reconnected.could something like this work?when ignition closes the PW relay normally, power 12V is provided to the PW circuit and to the common on the second relay. As long as ignition is on, the PW relay will stay closed. While the doors are closed, the door trigger signal is an open circuit, so the second relay connects pins 30 and 87a. (normally closed) when ignition is turned off, the constant 12V through the PW relay is routed back through the second relay to keep the PW relay closed. When the door is opened, the second relay energizes, disconnecting pins 30 and 87a, and the power window relay opens. When the door is closed again, the second relay reconnects 30 and 87a, but since the PW relay is open, there is no 12V to feed back through the second relay to the PW relay coil, so the PW relay stays open. The two diodes prevent currrent flow from between the two possible sources of 12V for the PW relay coil, and since they only have to handle coil currents, they don't need to handle high currents. It looks to me like it would work, but I might be missing something, so if I am wrong please speak up You could pick up the door trigger signal from the dome/interior light control switch, or wire in to the driver door switch, depending on whether you wanted any door opening to kill the retained power, or just the driver door to do it.

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jeffgtx · Post by **jeffgtx** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:32 am

oooooo me likely when joatman and jahntessa work together.i will take a look at home tonight and see if i can find easy access to those wires in the left side.what part number relay do i need for the added one?

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:30 am

I bought some parts and verified that this circuit does work Used a radio shack parts2750241 12V 1A relay, 2761103 2 pack 1N4004 diodes, some terminal lugs , and also some wire and heatshrink that I already hadTrouble was that the coil connections on the PW relay socket are thinner, and the terminal lugs that I had that fit the narrower width weren't long enough. I had to custom modify a couple to get long enough ones to be thin enough to get in. I'm noit satisfied with the mechanical stability of it though. If I was going to make it permanent I would either get and gut another relay to use as a connector, or modify the existing relay so that it still plugged into the socket and had wires coming out for the added exterenal circuitry.The door ajar signal is easy to get to, it is a red wire with a white stripe in pin 1 of the connector for the dimmer switch. Access to the relay and top of the fuse block is relatively good if you pull out both the little storage bin and the vent/mirror control/dimmer switch bezel.

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jeffgtx · Post by **jeffgtx** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:56 am

there is a reason you are the gen vibe dog, we are all mortals thanks for taking on the project!!couple questions:1) does this hook up only lose power if the driver door is open, or any of them?2) what do teh diodes do? did you add one or both of those diode in teh schematic?

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:43 am

I hooked up the door signal to the wire at the dimmer switch. That causes the retained power to go away when any door is opened (or the hatch). If you wanted it to be only when the driver door was opened, you'd have to tap in to the driver door switch wire, somewhere between the door and the integration relay.I added both diodes. Diodes prevent current from flowing the wrong way, current can only flow in the direction of the arrow. A one way street. The diode in line with the Ignition is the most important, it prevents the retained power from feeding back into the entire ignition circuit, powering everything that gets powered when the ignition switch is on. The relay I used only has to handle coil currents, was rated at like one amp, no way could it handle the entire ignition circuit current. The other one (the one connecting the two relays) prevents ignition voltage from passing through the added relay into the power window circuit. Maybe not as important as the other, but if it wasn;t there and there was a short in the PW circuit, the fuse that feeds the 12V to the PW relay would blow, and then ignition 12V would feed through the added relay smoking the relay and blowing the ignition fuse too.I've looked at the inside of the existing PW relay, not sure if I will be able to have success modifyinig it. The coil wire is very thin, and crimped on to the terminal. There is also a shunt resistor in there. It is some tiny work, for me anyway, and maybe I'll try it tomorrow. If I mess it up, then I'll have one to use as a connector. I still have the one left over from the console power outlet mod.

jeffgtx · Post by **jeffgtx** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:13 am

so you have to cut the ignition wire going into the PW relay? is that on teh top or bottom side of the junction box?be right back, gotta head to radio shack. that rhymed.looks like RAP is a $20 option!thansk joatman!

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:41 am

Quote, originally posted by jeffgtx »so you have to cut the ignition wire going into the PW relay? is that on teh top or bottom side of the junction box?No, I think to do that you would pretty much have to remove the fuse block from under the dash, take it apart, and do surgery on it. No way am I going to do that!I made a test jig. pulled the relay, made some wires with female terminals to plug into the relay, male terminals to plug into the relay socket. That extended the relay away from the fuse block, and I did the mods to these exteneder wires. This has the advantage of being undo-able, but I am not convinced that the terminals will stay in the fuse block. That's why I was thinking about modifying the relay, but the hard part about that will be breaking the internal connection for the ignition voltage so that the diode can be added in line.Quote, originally posted by jeffgtx »be right back, gotta head to radio shack.The relay I bought was one designed for mounting on a circuit board. I just tack soldered wires on to it's pins. For a more robust mod, you probably want to get a relay that is more mechanically rugged. The radio shack near me doesn't sell anything like that. Maybe an auto parts store would have a rugged 12V relay. I think if I were going to leave this installed in the car and drive it using the relay that I currently have, I'd probably pot the whole thing in RTV.

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Jahntassa · Post by **Jahntassa** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:04 pm

Ummm....wait. Something doesn't look right...Okay, take your later wiring diagram (rap4.jpg), and look at it closely.Basically what you're doing is making it so when the door is open, it'll disconnect the window circuit from the ignition circuit. Right? That...won't do what he's trying to do!Basically, your circuit will make it so as long as the door is closed, and the ignition is ON, the windows will be powered. You're just creating a second path for power with the ignition active, and it goes away when the switch is turned on! Unless i'm missing a relay... Edit: ACK! I just really looked at your diagram again! Do NOT do that! You're going to power the windows off the switched ignition source, and that will NOT have enough current to power the windows! Doing that could blow a fuse, or, fry something! (See disclaimer at end in case i'm just completely wrong..)If you look closely at the 12volt.com diagram, what it's doing is creating a self-perpetuating circuit in the second relay. In relay 1, the switched power is going in two directions, both into the relay, and out of the relay, it's simply tapped into the existing ACC wire. So what happens is, you turn on ACC, it turns on the coil on relay 1. This, in turn, sends power through the normally closed circuit on relay 2. With relay 2, it allows power through until the coil is activated (by opening the door). The reason it keeps ACC active until you open the door is back on relay 1. The path to ground through relay 2 stays until the door is open, right? So, in relay 1, once it's activated by ACC, it pumps constant 12v into the ACC line, which perpetuates the relay activation because it's also feeding the coil.Once ground goes away by opening the door (triggering the coil on #2), the first relay shuts down, and it won't turn on again until ACC power is reapplied.In this case, you want to use the 2nd 12volt.com method, because it will keep the relay from powering everything else on the ignition circuit. It does add complexity to it, but it will work..In theory, you could also add a relay to the ignition wire where joatmon did (that first diode), and it'll keep power from flowing back. As long as the power draw isn't huge, you should be fine. I have some 3amp 1N4001's sitting around that I could send out if needed. Most of the ones at RatShack are only 1amp.Does that make sense to you, joatmon? I keep looking at your relay diagram and it seems to me it won't do exactly what jeff is trying to do...But, then..I usually get confused until I actually build it..

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:23 pm

Quote, originally posted by Jahntassa » Do NOT do that! You're going to power the windows off the switched ignition source, and that will NOT have enough current to power the windows! Doing that could blow a fuse, or, fry something! The diode in series with the switched ignition voltage prevents feedback into the ignition source. The other diode prevents ignition voltage from powering the power window circuit.here's how I see it working

208544=7436-rapani2.gif

Jahntassa · Post by **Jahntassa** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:06 am

Okay...alright. The arrows help. I was looking at it going the OTHER way for some reason.Like i've said...I don't always get it.

Holy crap. I'm just freaking stupid. Yes..you're right.. that would work, wouldn't it. :smacks forehead:Yesyes..just as joatmon says.

jeffgtx · Post by **jeffgtx** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 8:36 am

i did this mod as well, and it works as desired. make sure to get a normally closed relay for proper functionality.thanks everyone! another discovery for genvibe.com!YAY a lame side effect. because teh 05 has gradual dimming of the dome lights, the relay goes bonkers and chatters for a second while the voltage drops. gotta solve that tonight somehow.

binary · Post by **binary** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:29 pm

Quote, originally posted by jeffgtx »i did this mod as well, and it works as desired. make sure to get a normally closed relay for proper functionality.thanks everyone! another discovery for genvibe.com!YAY a lame side effect. because teh 05 has gradual dimming of the dome lights, the relay goes bonkers and chatters for a second while the voltage drops. gotta solve that tonight somehow.That's a feature! It's the "you're losing your delayed power alert" sound.That's a freakin' great mod, and a nice animated gif to show it working. I may need to add that to my list!

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:01 pm

Quote, originally posted by jeffgtx »YAY a lame side effect. because the 05 has gradual dimming of the dome lights, the relay goes bonkers and chatters for a second while the voltage drops. gotta solve that tonight somehow.my 2003 didn't have the gradual dimming of lights, so I didn't have that problem, and can't test a fix. Maybe instead of connecting to the door signal at the dimmer switch, which is the output of the "integration relay", hook into the driver door switch. That would only cancel RAP when the driver door was opened, but it probably wouldn't chatter the relay. Been too long since I messed with more than the basic ohm's law stuff. Probably a way to replace the second relay with a transistor. would be cheaper than the relay option, and transistors don't chatter

Jahntassa · Post by **Jahntassa** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:41 pm

Yeah, you need to tap into the door trigger, not the domelight. I'm fairly certain the trigger does go to the domelight switch, you just need to find it.Unplug the domelight switch and use a meter to test for when the door trigger goes. Or i'll see if I can go look at my car and see where I tapped in..

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:43 am

think about this one. would it work?(edit - diagram removed)

GMJAP · Post by **GMJAP** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:04 am

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »think about this one. would it work?(door signal is same as 12V and IG when door is closed, ground when open, gradually increasing from ground to 12V right after closing door)Unfortunatley, this circuit wouldn't work. The transistor would blow if you tried it, and maybe take a fuse with it.You're best off sticking with the relay, and connecting the "To Door" part of the circuit to the front door switch ("courtesy switch"). I would add another diode, 'pointing' to the door switch.I don't understand how you've got it hooked up that it's chattering when the dome lights turn off. Joatman's circuit relies on the dorr switch grounding the added relay to shut off RAP. The dome lights would be doing the opposite- disconnecting ground after 20 min. Can you post your connections?

Jahntassa · Post by **Jahntassa** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:51 am

The Map lights disconnect ground after 20 minutes. Well..maybe the domes do too..but that's ONLY if you leave them on. Otherwise the dome lights are ground-switched. And, if he's using the domelight wire as the door trigger, they 'dim' as they turn off.. so as they dim, the relay has, then doesn't have, then has..the right voltage, making a 'chattering'Okay, from my diagrams, the doorpin is a red/yellow wire in the driver's kickpanel. Most likely in one of the harnesses down there. Take your door trigger from that, and the chattering should dissapear.

GMJAP · Post by **GMJAP** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:31 pm

Quote, originally posted by Jahntassa »The Map lights disconnect ground after 20 minutes. Well..maybe the domes do too..but that's ONLY if you leave them on. Otherwise the dome lights are ground-switched. And, if he's using the domelight wire as the door trigger, they 'dim' as they turn off.. so as they dim, the relay has, then doesn't have, then has..the right voltage, making a 'chattering'You're not understanding what I'm saying - The door switch is grounded when the door is open.The dome lights have no ground when they turn off.In other words, they function completely opposite. I understand why it chatters as it turns off. What I don't understand is why joatmon's circuit, which is designed to keep power on when the second relay is OFF (has no ground), and turn power off when the second relay is ON (grounded through door switch), is working with the map/dome lights which are groundedfor 20 minutes and then ungrounded when they shut off.

jeffgtx · Post by **jeffgtx** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:31 pm

well technically we are not conencted to the dome lights, but the dome light control line as it is labeled in my schematic. this is happening with the door shut.if i can get home before dark tomorrow i wil try to get behind the kick panel and try and see if that works.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:06 am

Quote, originally posted by GMJAP » What I don't understand is why joatmon's circuit, which is designed to keep power on when the second relay is OFF (has no ground), and turn power off when the second relay is ON (grounded through door switch), is working with the map/dome lights which are groundedfor 20 minutes and then ungrounded when they shut off.I still don't understand how the dome lights in the 2005 behave. In my 2003, the dome light comes on (assuming I have the switch in door mode) immediately when I open a door. The lights go off immediately when I close the door. Are you saying that in the 2005, if I open and shut the door, the dome light stays on for 20 minutes? That must suck. What about the map lights, are they different? Is it the map lights that go out after 20 minutes and the dome light starts to fade as soon as the door is closed? The door switches are open when the door is closed, ground when the door is open. The driver door feeds into the "integration relay" (toyota term) or "multifunction alarm module" (Pontiac term) independently from the rest. The other door and hatch open switches are tied together and connected to the dimmer switch and the integration relay. The integration relay must be able to pull this to 0V. Apparently when the dome lights in an 05 go out, they dim out instead of a hard switch off like in the 03's. Does the 05 integration relay slowly increase the voltage on that dome light ground signal, or does it use some sort of pulse width modulation to control the brightness? When the doors are closed and the dome lights are out, the integration relay pulls this "dome light ground" signal to battery voltage.Is the dimimng out of the dome lights always constant, or do they dim out faster if the door was only opened for a second?Anyway, would something like this help the chatter? The change being that the first time the second relay energized enough to open the PW relay, the coil voltage on the second relay would go away.

210512=7505-rap8.gif

GMJAP · Post by **GMJAP** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:10 am

In the 2005, the dome lights are connected to B+ o one side, and a control line from the MFAM (MultiFunction Alarm Module) on the other. The MFAM pulls the control line to ground when a door is opened to turn on the lights. When you close a door, the dome lights stay on a short time and then "fade" out. If you leave the door open, they'll stay on for 20min. I don't believe the control line goes to B+ when the lights are off, it just cuts ground. I would suspect the fade is a PWM thing.The map lights are connected to B+ on one side, through a switch on the other, to a similar control line on the MFAM. The control line is normally grounded, so when you connect the switch they turn on. But I think it senses the current and when the lights been on more than 20 min or so it shuts them off.As for youe new suggestion, joatmon, it's brilliant. That should fix any chatter:Quote, originally posted by joatmon »

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:56 am

Quote, originally posted by GMJAP ». That should fix any chatter:almost any If you open and close the door on a 2005 while the ignition is on, does it still dim out the dome lights or do they shut off right away? If it still dims them out, then you'd probably still get the second relay chatter when you shut your door if the ignition was on. I guess it's a compromise. Do you want the RAP to go away when any door is opened and put up with chatter in the few times you close the door while ignition is on, or do you want to eliminate all relay chatter scenarios and only end RAP when the driver door is opened? I don't have power windows/locks, so I need to revisit the moonroof limit switches to see if there is a way I can have RAP until the moonroof is closed.

jeffgtx · Post by **jeffgtx** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:15 pm

&@%#%$^#$@%^@$%^there is no red/ylw wire in that whole kick panel.the door jamb switch is red/white. lucky for me, theres 8000000 red/white wires. my neck is broken but i didn;t find it.and the stupid GM service manual DVD is teh worst user interface in the freaking world.it will take me all night to figure out where that wire goes.and i refuse to wire a wire all the way to that door jamb switch... thats just ridiculous. for me

GMJAP · Post by **GMJAP** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:27 pm

Quote, originally posted by jeffgtx »&@%#%$^#$@%^@$%^there is no red/ylw wire in that whole kick panel.the door jamb switch is red/white. lucky for me, theres 8000000 red/white wires. my neck is broken but i didn;t find it.and the stupid GM service manual DVD is teh worst user interface in the freaking world.it will take me all night to figure out where that wire goes.and i refuse to wire a wire all the way to that door jamb switch... thats just ridiculous. for meDeep breath.The door switch wire can be tapped on the bottom of the instrument panel fuse block. It's pin 3 of C12, the middle of the three large connectors on one side of the bottom of the fuse block. RD/WH wire. Page 8-596, if the DVD has the same page #'s as the print, (Wiring Systems-Body) shows the location of C12, and a few pages later 8-610 shows the pinout of C12.

jeffgtx · Post by **jeffgtx** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:39 pm

thank you. i have calmed down a little bit and am happy to report success. thanks GMJAP. you led me to it, but on the other side. i got to it on the top side to the left on teh fuse box panel.and now, with NO relay farting noise!Circle is the relay hook uparror is the door jamb open hook up. pin 10this image (sorry for the blur) is taken looking through the removed left side instrumetn bezel.YAY... we made retained accessory power for 15 bucks!!! genvibe rules.whats next on teh project list.... lets see.........(joatman, two things:1) yes it always fades. the only time i have not seen it fade is when you hit lock on the keyfob2) whats with the funky new logo?

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ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:11 pm

Very cool! Congrats on a job well done!

Jahntassa · Post by **Jahntassa** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:33 pm

Sorry...I forgot you have the '05. I'm going to guess things are slightly different between the '05 and '03..

jeffgtx · Post by **jeffgtx** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:21 am

yea, 03s dont come standard with dimmer switch bezel relay farting standard

GMJAP · Post by **GMJAP** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:41 am

Quote, originally posted by jeffgtx »yea, 03s dont come standard with dimmer switch bezel relay farting standard Yeah, all years have the fart smell, now you get the sound too. Talk about those lower-end Vibe-rations...

Jahntassa · Post by **Jahntassa** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:33 pm

Pft..I have so many relays running in the car now, it sounds like there's some angry insect clicking away when the car starts.

Adding "retained accessory power" to the windows

Adding "retained accessory power" to the windows

Re: Can i add "retained accessory power" to the windows? (jeffgtx)

Re: Can i add "retained accessory power" to the windows? (joatmon)

Re: Can i add "retained accessory power" to the windows? (jeffgtx)

Re: Can i add "retained accessory power" to the windows? (jeffgtx)

Re: Can i add "retained accessory power" to the windows? (ColonelPanic)

Re: Can i add "retained accessory power" to the windows? (jeffgtx)

Re: Can i add "retained accessory power" to the windows? (jeffgtx)

Re: Can i add "retained accessory power" to the windows? (jeffgtx)

Re: Can i add "retained accessory power" to the windows? (joatmon)

Re: Can i add "retained accessory power" to the windows? (Jahntassa)

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