GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

Quote »'Black Box' Recommended for All VehiclesTue Aug 3, 6:45 PM ETBy LESLIE MILLER, Associated Press WriterWASHINGTON - The government should require data recorders in all passenger vehicles, federal safety officials said Tuesday in a recommendation arising from the investigation of a car crash that killed 10 people and injured 63.National Transportation Safety Board investigators concluded the 86-year-old driver had stepped on the gas instead of the brake and plowed into a farmers market in Santa Monica, Calif., on July 16, 2003.They came to that determination without testimony from the driver, George Weller, who refused on his lawyer's advice to talk with the investigators.The board concluded investigators could have gained a better scientific understanding of Weller's behavior had his 1992 Buick LeSabre been outfitted with an event data recorder, or "black box.""We believe very strongly that vehicles should have a black box," NTSB chairman Ellen Engleman Conners saidIn the Santa Monica crash, investigators came to their decision on Weller's actions after ruling out mechanical failure, weather, fatigue, alcohol or drugs. Weller hired a lawyer to help him fight vehicular manslaughter charges and civil lawsuits.The NTSB recommended black boxes two months after the top federal auto safety agency, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, said it saw no need to require them because automakers are adding them voluntarily to more models.Flight data recorders, which despite the black box characterization are bright orange, are aboard all commercial aircraft. They can collect more than a thousand pieces of data about an airliner that investigators can review to determine the cause of a crash.Proponents of black boxes in passenger vehicles say they could provide investigators with an exhaustive database that could highlight flaws in auto and road designs.Critics worry about who would get access to that information. Privacy advocate David Sobel said millions of drivers on the road now have no idea that their vehicles are collecting data."They certainly don't know what's being collected, how long it's being retained and who can get access to it under what circumstances," said Sobel, general counsel for the Electronic Privacy Information Center.AAA, the nation's largest auto club, would support requiring black boxes only if protections were in place to ensure the data are used just for safety research and can't be traced to specific drivers, spokesman Mantill Williams said.The highway safety agency says between 65 percent and 90 percent of 2004 vehicles have some sort of recording ability. About 15 percent of vehicles have data recorders. Different models collect different amounts of data. Some record nothing more than how fast a vehicle sped up or slowed down, while others collect a range of information qbout the driver's actions and the condition of a vehicle's mechanical systems.Data have been used by the highway safety agency in safety research and by law enforcement officials investigating car crashes.In Massachusetts, crash data have been used to bolster evidence in several prosecutions. And in California, a law took effect on July 1 that requires manufacturers to tell buyers when their new cars have black boxes. In most cases, the law requires an owner's permission before authorities can get access to the data.The NTSB has the power only to investigate and recommend. Any requirements would have to be imposed by NHTSA.The highway safety agency said in June that requiring black boxes was unnecessary but proposed that by 2008 the auto industry should outfit their vehicles voluntarily with recorders that would collect 42 pieces of accident data, including speed, braking, seat belt use and the time required for air bags to deploy.The NTSB said black boxes could help explain accidents caused by "unintended acceleration" in which a vehicle suddenly speeds up. This can be caused by a driver sitting in the wrong position or mistakenly stepping on the accelerator rather than the brake, as the NTSB contends the Santa Monica driver did.Those who believe older drivers should have to prove their driving ability cited the accident as an example of the tragedy that can result when people are too old to drive safely. The safety board could not determine whether Weller's age played a role in the accident, focusing instead on the need for stronger barriers at regularly recurring outdoor events such as street fairs and farmers markets.Engleman Conners said the safety board maintains its interest in the issue of older drivers. The board decided to send an investigation team to Santa Monica because it hoped to learn whether the driver's age contributed to the accident.

Do the vibes have a black box? I found a big black box with wire connected to it just inside the rear driverside wheel well. Noticed it when I took the wheels off to put on the splash gaurds.

Quote, originally posted by fancynewwheels »Do the vibes have a black box? I found a big black box with wire connected to it just inside the rear driverside wheel well. Noticed it when I took the wheels off to put on the splash gaurds.We're not positive whether or not there is one.That box you refer to, however, is the EVAP canister for the fuel system.If we do have one, my guess is it's integrated either with the SIR module hidden behind the shifter, or perhaps part of the ECM hidden behind the glovebox.

They did this with all 4 wheel drive vehicles in Nebraska. 90% of all voice recordings before an accident was "Hold my beer, and watch this". Of course I'm kidding if there are any really gullible people here.

lol! Cockpit voice recorder! I dug up this article on event data recorders: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/edr-site/history.htmlGM's had the capability since the '70s it would seem...

I don't know for sure if the Vibe has a "black box" so to speak, but I'm sure it has some kind of data recorder that is tied in with the airbag system.To me, data recorders like that are fine if they assist in managing emergency safety features like airbags. However, I don't want an airline style black box on my car. As the article states, data from these devices has been introduced in court cases. I can't see the arguement for using this data without the driver's permission because to do so is a violation of your 5th Amendment right to not have to testify against yourself. These black boxes are a great example of unpermitted self-incrimination which violates the 5th Amendment. They should never be allowed to be used for such a purpose.If they are ever reqiured by law, then there needs to be some issues attached to them. I say that they may be required to be on the car from the manufacturer as long as it is not illegal for the owner to remove them after purchasing the car. Law enforcement must not be permitted to use data gathered by the device without the owner's permission. It must not permit the device to send out a signal so that a satellite or other such technology can "home" in on you or monitor your whereabouts without your permission. And also, insurance companies must not be allowed to require their insureds to use such a device, nor require them to give the insurance company data from the device against the owner's will. It must also be forbidden for an insurance company to take adverse action against any insured who refuses to share the data with them. This issue opens up so many cans of worms that must be addressed. As for now, since no laws exist to reqire using a black box in a car nor govern the usage of data it collects, it is not illegal to remove/disable such a device or any of its' parts. So if you have one in your car, you can disable it if you wish, provided that you can find a way to do it.A friend of mine is a firefighter and he has told me that the police are working on finding a way to get car manufacturers to equip all new cars with a remote feature on the car's engine management computers. The police would have a device in their patrol cars that can remotely shut down the engine of a car that they are persuing. My problem with this is that the cost of manufacturing cars this way is passed on to the regular law abiding people who aren't using their daily driver as a get-away car. I don't see that as a fair solution. There is already a device that can be put on a police car that shoots out a little rocket powered car from the front the police car that passes underneith a car that they are persuing and emits a high amount of electronic energy which fries the car's computer and shuts it down. I suggest developing things like that instead.

As to the question of who controls access to the EDR data, in a number of jurisdictions it has been determined that it is the vehicle owner. Sounds good until you understand that A: If it's a leased vehicle, the driver doesn't own it. B: If he did, the instant he cashes the check from the insurance write-off, he no longer does; it's now owned by the insurance company and they can download and use the data aginst him.

Quote, originally posted by fancynewwheels »Do the vibes have a black box? I found a big black box with wire connected to it just inside the rear driverside wheel well. Noticed it when I took the wheels off to put on the splash gaurds.I recall reading somewhere that they usually are under the driver's seat. I haven't really looked closely, but there is something under my driver's seat. Anyone know what it is?

What you see under the driver's seat is the inverter for your AC outlet on the dash...