GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

i read a artical in "Car and Driver BOOST" awile back, it was using celicas, but same deal heres the story, even thought both ran about 180hp to the crank the 1zz did the 0-60 a full second faster due to the natrually lower end power of the engine(about 6.2 in the celica), and the 1/4mile about .15 seconds faster (14.9 to 15.05 me averaging it off etc)(thinking about this though that means the GT's engine is still probably better at 60-90 say in a highway race or whatnot)im a hardcore GT owner, but after reading this ill have to watch out for a s/c base vibes hehe, wonder what a awd s/c would do off the line ?

the AWD would be slower because its heavier...right?

Quote, originally posted by Evanshall »i read a artical in "Car and Driver BOOST" awile back, it was using celicas, but same deal heres the story, even thought both ran about 180hp to the crank the 1zz did the 0-60 a full second faster due to the natrually lower end power of the engine(about 6.2 in the celica), and the 1/4mile about .15 seconds faster (14.9 to 15.05 me averaging it off etc)(thinking about this though that means the GT's engine is still probably better at 60-90 say in a highway race or whatnot)im a hardcore GT owner, but after reading this ill have to watch out for a s/c base vibes hehe, wonder what a awd s/c would do off the line ?Just race them to 100+ and you'll win no matter what... i believe there governer is set to 110 or somewhere around there... where as the GT is drag limited.

the awd had less hp to begin with.slightly heavier and has more drivetrain losses.

Quote, originally posted by drummerdude »Just race them to 100+ and you'll win no matter what... i believe there governer is set to 110 or somewhere around there... where as the GT is drag limited.If you are racing and have to reach 110+ you already lost. If I was racing and beating the car no point in me going higher speeds would be pointless.

Quote, originally posted by wicked1981 »If you are racing and have to reach 110+ you already lost. If I was racing and beating the car no point in me going higher speeds would be pointless. Regardless, a GT would beat the supercharged before 100... anywhere from 60-90 the GT would catch and pass the Supercharged Base!

Too many variables. boost, gearing blah blah. I'm not so sure I agree w/ you DD about that. I'm thinking it would be the otherway around for some reason.

The GT is geared for accellerating at higher engine speeds (shorter gears) where as the base has tall gears which is made for cruising and fuel effeciency... i have no doubt that i would most likely be killed by develop or faultline... but just a base with a gm supercharger, whether auto or manual... i would beat it befroe it could hit 90. I'm almost positive i would! once again if the base is standard its all about driver skill too!

Quote, originally posted by drummerdude » I'm almost positive i would! once again if the base is standard its all about driver skill too! I dont think its driver skill in an auto. Punch gas takes no skills.

I still want to see posted results from a stock GT/SC Base comparison....not just speculation. Toyota's own printed and posted numbers put a SC XR slightly behind a stock XRS in 0-60 and 1/4 mile. I believe that Larry even said he thought a stock XRS would beat a SC XR.Jim

Both cars have their advantages. In an all out race I think the edge goes to the GT. It has a better gear ratio and more hp stock. The base also has a more restrictive header and exhaust. The SC is also tuned rich to lower exhaust temps. The higher exhaust temps can damage the first cat. The SC Base should be quicker off the line but I think the GT would catch it and pass between 65 and 70 mph. Of course that depends on the driver but with a good driver I think that's how it would happen. Personally, I prefer the SC as a daily driver even though it may not be as quick in a race. It's nice to have the low-end torque on hand for passing power. Like all things with mods things can change. To view a video of my auto SC XR vs. an XRS starting from 40 go to http://larry.neptune.com and choose SCXR vs. SCXR/XRS. I've raced quite a few XRSs and it's always close. The Magnaflow cat-back/CAI/Unichip combo seems to be a very good combo for the 2zz.

yes, i think larry, you and i have had these discussions on what we think would happen. i'm curious to see your super duper scxr take on just the basic scxr. with all your extras, i think it'd be interesting to see just how much you wax the guy! LOL. and i'd love to see you vs a turbo like jeff's or the cai/exhaust/unichip xrs... i think off the line, the sc base will win but once the gt hits lift, you're gone! would be very close and i think alot would depend on the driver. now a sc base vs a modded gt as described i believe even the start from the line would be a close one!

Quote, originally posted by trdvibe »yes, i think larry, you and i have had these discussions on what we think would happen. i'm curious to see your super duper scxr take on just the basic scxr. with all your extras, i think it'd be interesting to see just how much you wax the guy! LOL. and i'd love to see you vs a turbo like jeff's or the cai/exhaust/unichip xrs... i think off the line, the sc base will win but once the gt hits lift, you're gone! would be very close and i think alot would depend on the driver. now a sc base vs a modded gt as described i believe even the start from the line would be a close one!I did race a SCXR with only and axel back. It's in the first part of the video above. I also raced an XRS with intake, Unichip, and Magnaflow Cat-back. I lost that one. Not real bad but still a loss. Two of them have dyno'd at 185 whp. That's not bad at all. Even off the line it's very close. Of course that's in my auto vs. a manual. A manual vs. manual would be very close IMO.

wow! i didn't realize you raced him. very cool. that's good to know then. just incase my significant other gets that s/c for his vibe.....

Quote, originally posted by Larry »I did race a SCXR with only and axel back. It's in the first part of the video above. I also raced an XRS with intake, Unichip, and Magnaflow Cat-back. I lost that one. Not real bad but still a loss. Two of them have dyno'd at 185 whp. That's not bad at all. Even off the line it's very close. Of course that's in my auto vs. a manual. A manual vs. manual would be very close IMO. Larry, do you know of any Manual SCer's who raced the 2zzer's???

Not cutting Larry's awsome ride short but I believe it would be taken to school with Devlop's base turbo Vibe... Jeff is well over 200HP isn't it?

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik »Not cutting Larry's awsome ride short but I believe it would be taken to school with Devlop's base turbo Vibe... Jeff is well over 200HP isn't it?The good race would be between him and me, I have beaten 2zz celica gt-s's at the track. devlop got a better time at the track than me, and I had my boost turned up higher!. My Mph was higher, but , my elevation is higher too!but anyway, we are both putting down over 200whp...I would still like to see a 5spd sc and a 2zz matrix/vibe go at it!

Yeah turbo against turbo would be awsome to see. Set it up guys! hahah

A friend of mine has a manual SC XR with the same mods. He hasn't taken it to the track so I'm not sure how fast it is. As for Devlop, I drove Rick's Matrix - I think that's the turbo Devlop purchased - and I can guarantee you he'd kill me. I think the merit's of the SC and 2ZZ is a good discussion but when it comes to the turbo owners, I view them as being at the top of the Matrix/Vibe food chain when it comes to performance. .

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik »Yeah turbo against turbo would be awsome to see. Set it up guys! hahahAt least when Rick had the kit, we were in the same state...we were just a few hours away! what is the half way point now???

hey drummerdude, from what I understand none of the Vibes are governed. How logical would it be to have a governor on the 1zz when it won't physicaly pass the 110 mph mark(or atleast won't go much further then 110 w/o f/i)? Logic would be to put it on the 2zz which we know isn't the case. It would be like puting a governor on the Subaru Impreza and not on the WRX STI (which in actality does have one that limits it to 150mph) Of course I might be wrong, I dougt it though

I think the SC manual vs 2zz race is won at launch and it's on the 2zz driver to get it right. If he does, he probably wins. If Larry's ride was a stick, look out.

Quote, originally posted by Larry »A friend of mine has a manual SC XR with the same mods. He hasn't taken it to the track so I'm not sure how fast it is. As for Devlop, I drove Rick's Matrix - I think that's the turbo Devlop purchased - and I can guarantee you he'd kill me. I think the merit's of the SC and 2ZZ is a good discussion but when it comes to the turbo owners, I view them as being at the top of the Matrix/Vibe food chain when it comes to performance. . yep. the turbo'd vibe will eat up any 2zz w/ whatever mods unless it was turbo'd too. hands down!

Quote, originally posted by Faultline »At least when Rick had the kit, we were in the same state...we were just a few hours away! what is the half way point now???Prolly like Colorado.

aww. you guys could get there fast! LOL

Yeah, and Colorado is very scenic!

well, the rocky mt region and the springs are nice. some parts are kinda deserty and ugly.

Eastern Colorado is flatter than Kansas. The far western slope is desert. But for the most part I don't mind visiting colorado. I sure wouldn't want to live there.

ha ha ha! and you're in NE! also extremely flat area of the country. i used to live in bellevue when my dad was stationed at offutt AFB. man, that was before we move to ALASKA! talk about a change in scenery! don't miss NE either... i love AK. lived in CO springs the first semester of school when he was stationed at Petersen AFB and it was ok. then on to OR and ID (boise area)...would be kinda cool to do a rally, you know where you drive long distance like you see a lot of the subie clubs do.

Well, where I live is totally different than most of the state. But don't tell anybody we don't need people moving in here. It's more like the Black Hills of SD than the rest of NE. Pine Forest and some pretty big hills and ridges.

well, keep in mind. i'm in alaska... your definition of "big hill" and mine are probably 2 very different things! LOLparts of NE are beautiful, but way too flat! plus my allergies just killed me! but next spring i may be taking a long drive cross country and up the Al-Can hwy again (4th time). i'm sure it will be fun even if it's a long one.

personally i think a modified 2ZZ vs a Turbo on medium boost, with stock tranny the 2zz would catch up at higher speeds as the 2zz is very good at higher speed accel, it seems to do 1/4 mile as fast as most cars that do the 0-60 about a second faster, therfor, sucky off line, great once you get there(6000 RPMS)

Dude, Turbos definately make their big power at the top end with very little or no effect at low rpm. If anything, the gearing of the 2zz may get out of the hole faster and the 1zz turbo with 7 lbs of boost would smoke it at the end though I suspect it would be over after 60'.