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Interesting article on the APA's annual testing of Montreal garages and dealerships, read away!From the Montreal Mirror:>> Cover StoryAuto focus >> Watchdog George Iny investigates the worst abusers in the car industry by CHRIS BARRYForever fighting the good fight, the Montreal-based Automobile Protection Association (APA) is a non-profit consumer advocacy group dedicated primarily to exposing, and hopefully rectifying, the many shady practices undertaken by those in the auto industry. From busting dishonest garages to challenging the big automakers on any number of key consumer issues, the APA serves as a literal godsend to motorists frustrated with forever being taken by the disreputable practices of the industry. George Iny is the APA's head honcho, and the Mirror had a chance to sit down with him recently to get the full 411 on their latest auto-repair and used-car-dealer investigations, as well as the trials and tribulations experienced by a cash-strapped consumer protection organization which consistently goes up against some of the most powerful lobbies in the country. Mirror: How does Montreal generally fare in your auto repair investigations?George Iny: Better than most Canadian cities, although not so much over the last two years. In most cases, lately especially, these shops are failing for honesty-based issues - mechanics doing repairs they must have known were not required. These are not issues of incompetence. If you start changing someone's brand new anti-freeze, well, come on, it's not a competence-based issue. You knew you were changing something that didn't need to be changed, you just assumed the customer didn't. M: I've always avoided chain repair shops, dismissing them as generally overpriced, staffed largely by incompetents and possibly even less honest than the local grease monkeys up my street. Is this assessment valid in your opinion?GI: What, that they are highly variable and dubious in terms of some of their practices? Absolutely. We were the first consumer group to publicly expose that many Canadian Tire stores pay their mechanics and counter guys commissions. In other words, if you're billed for five hours but they did the work within three-and-a-half, the mechanic gets a bonus, but you're still billed for five hours. Look, the Canadian Tire brand generates a lot of goodwill, they do some good things for the community, but our investigations show that it's a poor choice for auto repair. And one of the reasons is that they have this very curious incentive practice where the guy you're talking to at the counter is actually, in many stores, getting a percentage of your bill.I'm talking about us having a camera hidden under the hood and being billed an hour for 15 minutes' work, three hours for 20 minutes' work, operations that were claimed to have been done but were not required. That's the kind of thing we find. We're talking about, at the end of the week, a guy who worked 35 hours actually being paid a bonus because he billed customers for 60 hours. It shouldn't happen. Yet for most customers, this kind of information is a revelation. They're absolutely astonished to think a clock can only have 35 minutes to its hour. They just can't believe that the nice person they're talking to at the counter, who offers you coffee, is wearing a crisp shirt and is just so pleasant, that they might actually be that way because they're on commission. It simply doesn't occur to them.Protection Office guttedM: How do so many in the industry continue to get away with these practices?GI: Partially because nobody's checking. Quebec once had a very active garage-probing activity run by the Consumer Protection Office, but in the last few years the budgets have been cut so savagely they haven't been able to run the program. It's terrible what's happened to enforcement in general, not just with autos but in other industries as well. The public knows it to some extent, but there's been a general decline in enforcement of marketplace activities since the 1990s, along with all the other government cutbacks. Often also, the people on the ground, the people doing the actual enforcements themselves, were being subverted by their own bosses, who were told to keep things quiet. You know, someone calls a minister's office because they're not happy their product is about to fail inspection, and someone else tells the investigators to just leave it alone. Eventually it comes down to the lowest guy on the totem pole who gets stuck in this situation, and it's a career-limiting move for them to complain about it.In Quebec, through the mid-'90s, the Consumer Protection Office used to have between 25 and 30 investigators. I think now there are seven. This isn't just for autos, this is for everything. They once had 30 lawyers and a very vigorous legal department. I believe now there are eight and a very overloaded legal department. Their jobs went from being a challenge to impossible.Worst of the worstM: Which garages have failed the most miserably over the past few investigations?GI: I would have to say the Alex Pneu chain. They're suing us by the way, for defamation. They claim our study wasn't fair and they weren't dishonest.M: I'm guessing the APA must be up against some powerful special interests.GI: The auto industry is a phenomenally effective lobby, great at what they do. They have a ton of muscle, they're in every riding, they're politically active. And when they haven't been happy with something we've done, they go straight up to the ministerial level to complain - visiting the Minister of Justice just in case there's some grant you're getting that they can influence next time around.There are many ways they'll try to silence you, though. The federal car dealers' association once went to visit our publisher to try and have them abrogate contracts with the APA. Hey, Canadian Tire once offered our publisher $42,000 a year to go study the auto repair sector - with the strict condition that the APA not be involved. M: Why?GI: They simply didn't like [the results] of our studies. Otherwise they would sue us. If you make a mistake, they sue. Believe me. You know, it's rough doing this work. Many newspapers simply won't print stuff that's negative towards their automobile advertisers. A boycott can be very expensive to a paper if the car dealers get together and decide they're not going to advertise as a group. Many [media outlets] buckle under eventually. It's a tough game.M: Do you foresee the status quo changing any time soon?GI: Eventually, when the big players realize [there is increasingly widespread mistrust of their industry], they'll be able to implement change. That'll be the beauty. The beauty isn't when we actually expose them, it's when they stop trying to shoot the messenger - us - and go to the root of their problems. And one day, that might happen. You really have to look to the future though.You know, so much of that classic consumer advice, blaming the individual and stuff, it's stupid. You should be able to count on the marketplace giving you a decent product without you having to be paranoid and having to read everything in triplicate. Ultimately, over the long term, the people we're really protecting are the honest business people being faced with unfair competition by the disreputable players - and honest people in this industry really are out there. Generally their trade associations don't represent them, but they do exist.Failing gradesOverall results in Montreal for the auto repair investigation were eight failures out of 13 visits, vying with Calgary for the poorest performance among the four cities visited. "We were stunned by this year's results," says Iny. "The test was so easy."For this investigation, the APA used a 1999 Dodge Caravan that had formerly belonged to an APA member. Prior to the investigation, the Caravan received a new battery, starter, spark plugs, wires, distributor cap, rotor and tires. The brakes were in excellent condition and all fluids and filters were replaced. The proble
m submitted to the repair shops was very simple - a loose battery cable, nothing more. The APA researchers reported that the van occasionally failed to start, and requested a general inspection of the vehicle. Here are a few local examples of what they came across:Canadian Tire: 544 Curé Labelle, Fabreville. Cost: $481.79 Replaced alternator; claimed it was overcharging. Replaced brand new fuel filter, replaced PCV valve. Corrected problem. APA request for reimbursement refused.Sears: 3005 le Carrefour, Laval. Cost: $33.94 Could not find problem.Canadian Tire: 7200 Ste-Anne de Bellevue, NDG. Cost: $21.80 Corrected problem.Ahuntsic Auto Centre (Esso): 810 Fleury E., Montreal. Cost: $368.59 Replaced battery, spark plug wires, cap and rotor. Plug wire damaged; manager claimed a squirrel had eaten the insulation (pesky rodents, always up to something). Corrected problem.Midas: 255 Labelle, Rosemère. Cost: $0. Corrected problem.Canadian Tire: 115 Brien, Repentigny. Cost: $106.05 Replaced coolant ($49.95), engine additive ($2.79). Neither required. Corrected problem.Midas: 1450 Moody, Terrebonne. Cost: $275.95 Replaced spark plugs, wires, distributor cap, rotor (all were new and reinstalled by APA). Corrected problem. APA reimbursed when shop learned it had failed investigation.Monsieur Muffler: 6800 Hochelaga, Montreal. Cost: $84.82 Replaced coolant (coolant was fresh). Corrected problem.Sears: 2151 Lapinière, Brossard. Cost: $69.00 Corrected problem.The APA claims that the repair chains are so unreliable that they cannot be trusted with a mandatory vehicle exhaust emissions inspection program, currently being considered for Quebec. More than three-quarters of the repair dollars spent on repairs to the APA minivan were used to change parts or fluids that were new, or for an incorrect diagnosis. Iny says that pressure from the Automotive Industries Association (AIA) and other industry lobby groups to obtain the emissions program they want are way out of line. "The auto repair industry has neither the credibility nor track record to dictate public policy on the environment," says Iny. "In fact, the AIA recently told CTV's W-FIVE that a 51 per cent failure rate in an undercover study wasn't serious."The APA believes the public would be better off if motorists contributed the money they would have to pay for emissions testing to fund activities with a better environmental cost/benefit. » CB Used car buyer bewareIf it makes you feel any better, buying a used car from a dealer in Montreal is a somewhat safer undertaking than in Toronto, where over half the dealerships tested got a failing grade in the APA's most recent investigation. Here, why hell, the chances of being cheated out of your money are no greater than a paltry 50 per cent.Overall, the APA's 2004 Used Car Investigation found that the new big-box used-car stores offer significantly lower posted prices than those at franchised dealers, more convenient hours with Saturday opening and a much larger selection.However, many of these new mega-dealers failed for a variety of reasons. Their advertising is frequently deceptive: APA shoppers learned that the advertised $399 over the auction price is not necessarily $399 over the dealer's cost, but actually corresponds to a much higher markup. Encan Direct H. Grégoire could not supply even one of six advertised vehicles, or similar vehicles, at the advertised prices. At Albi Mazda, their ad showed only one of 50 1,999 Protegés at the advertised $6,950; it had been sold, and prices for the 49 other 1999 Protegés started at $9,995.At some of the big stores, an inspection at the buyer's garage is not possible until after signing a contract of sale and leaving a deposit. The APA argues this practice is absurd, as several of the same stores do no preparation of their own until after the customer has signed an offer.As for advertised representations concerning LIQUIDATION and ENCAN (auction), the APA says you can probably forget it. There were no auctions going on when the APA shoppers visited, and almost no repossessed vehicles undergoing a bankruptcy sale - just regular used cars, mostly lease returns.Further, monthly payments advertised by several dealerships do not include the interest on the loan. Consequently, an advertised $99-a-month at Lallier Honda for a used Civic turned out to be more like $140 - $150 a month with the extra fees and interest. Other dubious practices included excessive administration or preparation fees tacked onto the selling price - up to $450 at Albi Mazda and a whopping $595 at Desmeules Hyundai, the highest such charge the APA has ever seen in Quebec.Should you still want to go this route in securing yourself a vehicle, the APA suggests you use the deceptive car ads to drive a better bargain at a franchised dealer. Most are still posting inflated asking prices, but are more than willing to drop their prices not to lose a client to the competition.Finally, the APA cannot stress enough the importance of having any used vehicle you're planning to purchase first inspected by an independent mechanic. For the full details of the APA's recent investigations, or to learn a bit more about the consumer organization itself, go to http://www.apa.ca. » CB

A good mechanic and garage are hard to find. When and if you find one, stay with them. It's nice to have some peace of mind in knowing your not being ripped off. Rip-offs such as these occur in all lines off repair. My sister recently got two estimates for a new roof on her condo. One was $1,950.00 and the other was $6,950.00. The second guy probably figured as a woman she knew nothing about roofs and tried to make an extra $5,000.00 on the deal.

That was an interesting read. I'll believe the canadian tire bit, my parents got ripped off by them. I'll never take my car there. It works fine right now but probably won't when they get done with it.

It's dismaying to know this happens - heck, I'm probably going to be taken for a ride at some point or another in the future Our society is moving further and further towards specialization of labour, to the point that we have no idea what is the true value of the services that are being provided. As a tech consultant, I wonder how many people get ripped off by computer stores when they take their CPUs in for repair and get charged phantom hours and purchase new parts that aren't needed.Gives you that overall yucky feeling.

I will disagree with one thing though. Estimates are writen up by the labour time guide, and techs get paid by the hours they work, not by how long they are there at work. So is it fair to a tech who can get a book time of 4 hours done in 2 and not be paid for 4? I'm siding with the tech on that one and will always agree that the proper labour time guide be used.

I don't know Phil, if they are over quoting their time to make money is that ethical? If they know that the job takes 2 hours and they charge 4 hours I don't find that right.

I agree its wrong if the labour guide says 2 hours and they charge 4. Otherwise all my quotes and bills are done up by the labour time guide. If it took a day or one hour to do a 2 hour job. We always charge by the book.

Sorry Phil but garages will always charge more.....the small local guys at times will tell you after a couple of hours to give them 20$ but never a dealership or large chain garages. I still find it wrong to pay for a guess estimate. If it took 2 hours of labor I pay 2 hours.I am a stubborn a ss today LOL

Rob that plain sucks bro

sorry, but that's why i HATE taking any of my vehicles for service (unless under warranty) to the dealership. most items can be done in much less time. the exception be a first time install that they charge me the book rate then their actual rate. one of my clients is a great mechanic. i took my tundra in to him for non-warranty items. he charged me by what it took him, not what the book said. he'd quote me the book rate, but if he got done faster, charge me the better rate! that's what i consider good customer service... giving your customer more than they bargain for. it's good to know the MOST it COULD be, but then good to know they are giving you a fair rate of what it actually was.

Its something I have no control over. Its decided by the service manager and enforced by the service work operator who prints the work order.