GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

I was thumbing through my owner's manual to make sure that I was up-to-date on maintainance (I know, I lead such an amazing life) and I noticed that they recommend a valve-adjustment at 60,000 miles. Has anyone reached 60,000 yet? I'm at 44,000 and closing fast. Is this valve-adjustment interval recommended on all GM's, or is it particular to the Vibe?

On my old mazda GLC, It said the valves needed to be lashed every 45k miles. I did it every 25k, to keep it in top tip shape.everytime I did it I would get hugh power gains, That I lost over time.I dont think it's going to be fun lashing 32 rockers on a 16 valve engine.

Whatever happened to good old hydraulically adjusted lifters?

Quote, originally posted by futseal04 »Whatever happened to good old hydraulically adjusted lifters?I don't know... At least we have timing chains, I suppose. Sure enough every 60,000 miles the owner's manual calls for Valve clearance inspection, adjust if necessary. (Or every 48 months, whichever comes first.) I'm wondering how much this little service will cost. I'll find out in 32,000 more miles I suppose!

Quote, originally posted by futseal04 »Whatever happened to good old hydraulically adjusted lifters?So the vibe does not use hydraulic lifters?

I'm not sure it they do or not?Thats the japan way, lashing valves!I use to do it myself on 16 valves which took me about 60-90mins.A tought to think about: Do you want to be the first to get your valves lashed by a pontiac mechanic that doesnt even know what valve lashing is.Maybe that's would be worth taking to a Toyota Dealership!what I remeber about the job was sticking a McDonalds straw in EACH cylinder to find top dead center.(thru the spark plug hole)Then using a wrench to losen the lock nut, adjusting it with a screw driver. lock it back down then measure it with the feeler gauges.then it was off to the next cylinder, finding TDC again.That was for the intake valves, I forgot how to do the exhaust.I'm also wondering about the other rockers, I would bet they have to be done with the little ones.????

One of the guys from Texas (forget his call sign, and he hasn't posted for a while) reported nealy 100,000 miles on his odo. at least 6 months ago. I mentioned the need for valve adjustment, but didn't hear back.A few years back, hydraulic lifters/lash adjusters were pretty well universal, for quiet operation and minimum service. Now a few non-hydraulic systems are creeping in, especially on applications where roller contacts are impractical or too expensive. Reasons include cost, space and surprisingly, fuel economy, since the hydraulic system exerts a force on the cam and thus generates friction for the entire 360 degrees, rather than just the ~ 120 (cam) degrees through which a typical valve is open.

None of this makes any sense to me, but here's a procedure I dug up on performing the service...(Found this here:) http://www.spaldam.com/Hobbies....html

Attached files ARTICLE_MAINT_VALVE_CLEARANCE_ADJUST.pdf (287.6 KB) 

Man that look like a major pain, But at least the 2ZZ look a bit easier, at least I wont have to pull the cams out like the 1ZZ.I'm wondering where to get the shim's and what they cost, and most of all how long they will take to get.

Good catch, silver, it was indeed Savoy!The good news is that with a little luck, the measurements will be OK and it will not be necessary to go through the shim/lifter change routine. The bad news on a base is that not only do the cams have to come out to adjust the clearance, the required new lifters are likely big $$! (On the other hand, if you have to pull the cams anyway, maybe there's a hotter pair available...)

I think that I will just wait till i hear the lifters start to rattle.......then get them shimmed.Personally, I would prefer less MPG with less maintenance and have my valves hydraullically adjusted......

Unfortunately, unless we have a long-time Toyota mechanic in our midst who can assure us on the subject, we can't be sure the clearances will grow. They are just as likely to close up, in which case burnt valves can result (don't ask me how I know this...)

I'm not a toyota mechanic by any means,But I bucks I'll bet they will need some adjustment.It's normal wear on these engines.I also think that it will be more noticeable in the GT with the 11.5:1 compression ratio.

quote :Whatever happened to good old hydraulically adjusted lifters?_______they went out when they stopped making real cars

From my personal experience unless something abnormal is going on there is not enough wear to warrant this procedure. I personally think they are covering their butts and just want to get you into the shop to make money when you are out of warranty. This procedure would be required if you were to overhaul the engine or replace any camshaft component but other than that I think it is hogwash. I too will drive mine untill I hear the lifters making noise an then worry about.

Quote, originally posted by vibeman1 »quote :Whatever happened to good old hydraulically adjusted lifters?_______they went out when they stopped making real cars They went out when they started making engines with a 100 HP per liter rating

well, the 2zz engine valves will take time, they use "puck" type shims. 1st, take the reading/measurement then check the R/M see if it falls in spec, if not do a little formula and order your new shim, do that till ALL valves are adjusted. SOUNDS FUN NOW HUH EVERYONE??? i myself have never done this, but watched one of the techs in the shop do it to a celica gts. now the 1zz is just replacing the shims pretty much the same as the 2zz but less money for parts.

Anyone know what we should expect to pay to get the valves adjusted? My Vibe's engine (1ZZ) is starting to make quite a racket... Sounds like the lifters are rattling/ticking/kocking/etc.Not sure if they need adjustment already (37,000 mi) or if I have yet another problem with this car. I think it's about time I stop listening for odd noises, this can get expensive. lol! I'll let the dealer listen, perhaps I have a different issue that my extended warranty would cover.And what would be the best place to get this done? I'm thinking a Toyota dealer, since they will have a better understanding of the engine and what needs to be done, as opposed to the Pontiac dealer. But I'm afraid to hear what Toyota would want for this service.

Valve lashing is nothing new to a GM mechanic. Techs are certified on engines and that includes lashing or they just know it from their experience, lashing has been around for years. This engine is not this strange phenomemon to a GM tech. Yes it is Toyota design but it is still in internal combustible engine and that is not new. When a new engine or trans comes out either GM or other the techs get training on it. New tools come out for the engine and the Techs go to training on it using the tools. Some techs build their own engines in their spare time. A Jap 4-cyl is not a big deal to them. Any certified tech can do this procedure.

Theoretically either pontiac or toyota should be able to do a good job on it, but I don't know which would be less expensive. It you are going to get it done then it might be worth asking both Toyota and Pontiac reps for an estimate first.

I agree with you and Joatmon... I'm sure the Pontiac dealer can do this service. The one thing that made me think the Toyota dealer may have a better understanding than the Pontiac dealer is that the I go to rarely works on Vibes. They don't sell well here, plus the fact that it is a somewhat small dealer, plus the Vibe is generally reliable... So mine is probably one of the few they ever work on. Not sure if they have ever had to tear a 1ZZ apart. Not to say they can't do it, mind you. Like Joatmon suggested, I'm going to get quotes from both places. I'll stop by the Toyota shop first, kinda dreading that, they're pretty arrogant. But just for giggles, I'll try to find out the prices today.

Ok, I walk into the Toyota dealership and asked the service advisor guy about getting this done. Mentioned I had a Vibe, he gives me this blank stare. I then had to add "It has Toyota's 1ZZ engine, you know, like the Corolla and Matrix have?" He then realized what I was talking about.I told him my manual calls for a valve clearance inspection/adjustment at 60K and he starts shaking his head. "No, no, no, we don't do that." Huh? "No, we don't do that, there are shims holding them in, and you can't adjust them. Besides, to do that, you've gotta pull the cams, and we don't do that. Ain't no adjustments!!!! So I just saved you some money!" Well golly gee, thanks for nothin! The guy really was a jerk, like I was wasting his time coming in to ask him questions about a friggin' PONTIAC. So much for considering a Toyota as my next car, I can't deal with the attitude I've noticed from three different Toyota dealers. They all treat me like I'm below them, and have this attitude like nothing ever goes wrong with their beloved products. Whatever. Ok, rant over. No doubt about it, I'll be taking the Vibe in to my friendly Pontiac dealer, who doesn't treat me like a piece of crap.

Anybody know what the Toyota reccomendation is for how often you should get your valves adjustment checked? If they are going to have that kind of attitude, then you're better off not letting that particular shop touch your car. Let us know what the Pontiac estimate is for the work.

Yeah, those guys aren't getting a penny from me, that's for sure. After what I went through over a simple question, if they offered to do the service for $25 while Pontiac wanted $500, I know where I would go, and it wouldn't be the Toyota place. lol!I'll ask them at my dealer on Tuesday when I go back in for the other noise I'm having...

I dunno, I haven't had any special mintenance done on my car...no valve adjustments, no trans flushes, nothing...Starting to wonder why my dealer hasn't said anything to me...

They probably forgot that the lifters aren't hydraulically adjusted like on the other GM cars.

Ugh, I'm rapidly closing in on the magic 60,000 mark where we're supposed to get these valves adjusted. Almost 55K right now if I remember correctly, and with the way I've been driving I'll be there in no time.So, it's been a while since this has come up. Has anyone had this done yet? Most of you guys probably haven't needed to get it done. I'm still not so sure about me, with all the noise that comes from the top end of the engine on mine. It probably wouldn't hurt to have this done, but damn we're probably talking about a good chunk of change!

Any competent mechanic should be able to check the valve lash fairly quickly, Colonel. I got so I could measure and set the screw-type adjusters on my 365,000 km (227,000 mi) Firefly (Geo Metro) in less than half an hour. Chances are good no actual adjustment will be necessary. PS: Doesn't it speak well to the stability of GenVibe that two of the same people can pick up the same thread after almost a year?

Thanks for the info. I was sitting around yesterday and thinking about what all I need to do to this thing and this definitely came to mind.Quote, originally posted by MadBill »PS: Doesn't it speak well to the stability of GenVibe that two of the same people can pick up the same thread after almost a year? Yes sir! That says a lot about the fine folks that frequent this site.

Quote, originally posted by MadBill »Any competent mechanic should be able to check the valve lash fairly quickly, coming from you, that's kind of like Bill Gates saying "any competent business person should be able to make a profit in the computer industry" I'm at 87K miles and haven't done it/had it done yet. What happens if I don't?

I'm watching this thread waiting for someone to take theirs to a Pontiac dealer and have them do it. I only got 5k on mine... so someone else will have to step up and take it.

Quote, originally posted by MadBill » Any competent mechanic should be able to check the valve lash fairly quickly, coming from you, that's kind of like Bill Gates saying "any competent business person should be able to make a profit in the computer industry" I'm at 87K miles and haven't done it/had it done yet. What happens if I don't?Thanks Joatmon, but my "What happens?" story will illustrate that I'm no Bill Gates of the auto world! The valve adjustment interval for my Firefly was 25,000 miles, so at about the kilometer equivalent, I checked and found them slightly loose on the intake and more so on the exhaust. Since they obviously loosened with wear, I set them all on the tight side and figured I could skip the job until some clatter developed. About 50,000 miles later the idle started to get rough and I began losing power. When I checked the valves, the exhaust clearances had closed way down, to the point that one was less than zero and had burned the valve seat due to lack of heat-dissipating contact! After pulling the head and replacing the burned valve, I was always careful to check clearances at the recommended intervals.

I probably ought to check mine. Looks like mine is developing a minor oil leak on the valve cover, so I guess I get to take that off and see what's inside.Anybody know if there is a gasket, or just some goo as sealant?

Good thing I found this site. I have been wrenching on bikes for years with the design like the 1ZZ's have. I noted on the valve clearance link. They say to remove the 2 bolts and the tensioner. But the pictures do not show the tensioner location. Anyone know if it's as easy to get at as the cams??? My brother's previous gen. Corolla has the belt drive cams but the valve adjust I believe is the same. So he just has them checked at the same time. P.S. checking clearances is easy. Changing the shims requires patience.

once you pull the timing chain cover it should be easy to find1ZZ

Attached files

the pics on the other link do not show any need for the timing cover to be removed, just the valve/cam cover was removed and the chain taken off the cams AFTER the tensioner was removed. I think(hope) it is simply a spring or hydraulic unit pushing down on the slipper shoe. OR there are shoe bolts at the top ..."tensioner bolts", that release the tension. These are not Maseratis, Lamborghinis, etc. Removing the timing cover in your pic seems out of touch with reality...I hope. I may go to the Toyota dealer or get a late model Haynes Corolla/ Celica manual to confirm this. These engines are the same as the latest Corollas and Celicas. Which I believe have been around since '98 ??? Have you adjusted your valves?...anyone out there done it themselves??? If it does not take any special tool or excessive time, I am always up for it. The dealers by me get $85+/hr. Years from now when I do it, it won't be cheaper. So you see where I am coming from. P.S. where did you find the picture? Jay

you're right, it doesn't look like the timing over needs to be pulled. Here is a pic from the softcopy matrix manual I mentioned in the other thread

Attached files

That looks more like what I expected/hoped...The drawings still leave a lot to be desired. Not your fault. Maybe Haynes or another has a better visual info. But I looked and found the cam chain tesioner near the lower part of the serp. belt tensioner. Looks pretty straight forward. The picture shows the serp. tensioner removed. Which may not be required. At least now I know if the dealer has a stock of shims, I can do it myself. I DON'T TRUST DEALERS. Plus, I am not a rich man. I am surprised Toyota would put such a costly service on one of their lesser expesive cars. If it's expensive(valve adjust)..how could they expect repeat customers? I like to have all the info prior to doing any job. Surprises often are not what you or I want....thanks...

So has anyone actually done this process yet? If the dealer did it for you - how much did it cost?

Since the Vibe has not been around nearly as long. I can only think to ask someone who has a a Celica or Corolla with the same engine.

Quote, originally posted by jasonvibe »Since the Vibe has not been around nearly as long. I can only think to ask someone who has a a Celica or Corolla with the same engine. Well, we do have plenty of members near or past the magic 60K mark... The car is sorta new, but some of us '03 owners are seeing the miles pile up on our cars. Yet nobody has done this yet. Why, I really don't know... I know I should get this done, but I'm not going to. I just don't know how much longer I will keep the car, so I hate to spend the big $$$ that it will probably cost to get this done if all that money is just going to go for "improvements" for the next vict, er, owner.

it's on my list to check the clearances, but I keep forgetting to pick up a valve cover gasket. I am hoping they will be fine and won't need a shimming

My Vibe GT just passed the 60,000 mile mark. I don't have the valve shims or adjustment tool, so I figured I would take it in.Asked the Toyota dealer what they do for 60,000 miles. Their list was consistent with the owner's manual, but no valve check. I asked about that, he says they never touch valves unless there is some problem with them.Called the Pontiac dealer. He wasn't familiar with my car (asked if my GT has an automatic) and gave me a totally random list (brake line flush??). No mention of valves.I am doing the service myself, skipping the valves.As an aside, I once had the valve adjustment tool and many shim sizes for a DOHC Fiat. I did adjust them from time to time, but found they were pretty stable once adjusted correctly. A Toyota engine ought to be more reliable than a Fiat, right?

anyone ever replaced their valves and or springs ? MWR has some nice racing ones i wouldnt mind putting in..

Quote, originally posted by vibe owner »My Vibe GT just passed the 60,000 mile mark. I don't have the valve shims or adjustment tool, so I figured I would take it in.Probably would be best to check the valve clearances first to see if adjustments are needed, before dealing with shims and such. Relatively easy and requires basic tools only. Procedure located at http://www.corolland.com/forum...17102Also check http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=23054

Ok, so my 03 GT has just recently passed 60k, and last night (I hope im not loosing my hearing/mind) Icould swear my engine sounded quieter. I pulled out of the driveway, let it warm up all the way, then once I got back on the main road I punched it and hit lift 1-2nd, nothing too bad, but a little further down the road I turned my music down and something didnt sound right.I literally stopped and got out to see if I had lost my exhaust tip it sounded so quiet. Anyway what noises exactly should I be listening for? Previous posts have said nocking/pinging or whatever but I hear nocking from my compressor and such all the time, so could someone please explain explicitly what thisnoise is and when it occurs or what mode of acceleration causes it so I can obsess over these little noises some more. Also, I just bought my vibe and purchased an extended warranty, could this possibly be covered?!

hey looky what i found when i was performance hunting on new celicahttp://www.newcelica.org/forum...94882

[QUOTE=northvibe]hey looky what i found when i was performance hunting Thanks So I guess asking if relashing my valves or whatever would be covered by my warranty was kind of dumb then...

well if the car isnt working properly then they are covered, but just asking to get them checked or relashed they wouldnt do it, they are cheap

Bump this (again)Has anyone actually spoken with a dealer and had this done?Cost / time / parts ?