2007 Toyota Matrix Brakes

Handling, suspension, and brake tuning discussions
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Bookworm
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Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:21 am
Location: Houston, TX

2007 Toyota Matrix Brakes

Post by Bookworm »

On the new(to me) car, I just finished bleeding the brakes out. That was a job and a half.

There's an engineer at Toyota that needs a kicking.

Front bleeder screw - 8mm.
Rear bleeder screw - 10mm (1cm for those who like to simplify)

Black 'dust' in the old fluid, plus it was a nice mid-brown colour - rather than the almost clear of new fluid. Fun! Took 26 ounces of new fluid.

I used a Mityvac unit, and was able to fit the hose into the reservoir directly, to save a LOT of pumping at the bleeder valves. It had never been done - the original caps were all still in place, and when removed at the back drums, they were _shiny metal_ underneath.

I 'adapted' for the ABS by pumping the brakes about 20-30 times with the power off.

There were air bubbles, of course, but that's because I was putting 10-20 PSI of force on the nipples, and the fluid wouldn't come out that fast, so air was being sucked in around the vinyl tubing. (the L adapters that came with the kit just didn't work well) No air went back in the system - too much vacuum.

I started at the front, rather than the back, so I could get as much crud out of the reservoir immediately. Those bleeders are a bit easier to access from the ground with the wheels turned. (This unit definitely has new CV joint boots, at a minimum)

Doesn't seem like the pads are grabbing any better, so I'll be taking them completely apart, compressing the pistons, extending them, and checking for something sticking. I haven't changed the rotors - these don't have the nice screw holes for popping them off. I'll have to go the torch and hammer route.

Any suggestions for making it easier to pull the rotors without making it a headache for me? (other than taking it to a shop, handing them my Bosch rotors, and saying "put these on." )
andrewclaus
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Location: Golden, CO

Re: 2007 Toyota Matrix Brakes

Post by andrewclaus »

The black particles are probably failing seals. You may want to look for a new master cylinder at least.

For the rotors, first try some DOT3 brake fluid as a penetrant wherever you can reach. Then put a couple of lug nuts on loose so the thing doesn't fly off out onto your toes. Then try rapping with a machinist's hammer, starting between the lug bolts. If you have new rotors on hand, rap the braking surface too.
Bookworm
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Location: Houston, TX

Re: 2007 Toyota Matrix Brakes

Post by Bookworm »

Definitely have new bosch rotors handy - with the extra bolt holes.

Hm.. I was thinking that the black stuff might be from the cap itself, that's where most was settling (that I could see). I may look at replacing it if it doesn't seem too horrible. Not looking forward to bench bleeding. (I'll have to figure out which one it uses. Doesn't appear terrible - Beck/Arnley for auto with abs/esc is $58)

I've never thought about using brake fluid as a penetrating lubricant. I've been trying to squeak a bit of deep creep around the lugs. I'll definitely be using a wire brush underneath :)

---
Not looking forward to the back brakes. I should really rework those as well, but I really dislike drum brakes. Maybe because years ago, when I was doing it more, I had to use a spike nut.
andrewclaus
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Re: 2007 Toyota Matrix Brakes

Post by andrewclaus »

I had a stuck tie rod end last year, untouched since '98. None of my brand name penetrants would get at it, MAPP torch neither. I was about to give up and looked on MeTube. A guy performed a decent series of torque tests on identically rusted bolts with the popular penetrants, in a plexiglass block so you could see the threads. DOT3 brake fluid was by far the most effective. A few drops of that, fifteen minutes, and it came loose. Some swear by an acetone/ATF mix too.

I had a master cylinder fail on me once, on a mountain road of course, talk about a Code Brown. I forfeited the core charge for the forensic cause and sliced it open. I couldn't believe the condition of every seal, practically none left, just a loose metal piston, and it still worked well enough to get me home in low gear. I was impressed with the redundancy. I learned to watch out for small black particles.
Bookworm
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Re: 2007 Toyota Matrix Brakes

Post by Bookworm »

You're talking about Project Farm, right? he does a LOT of tests like that.

I'll keep an eye on the fluid and see if anything changes; I guess it's possible the seals for the front are gone, and that would explain why I'm getting most of the work out of the back brakes.

I'll check the part number on the cylinder and try to figure out what's the right one to use to replace it - at rockauto, there are apparently a number of differences.
cigvibe
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Re: 2007 Toyota Matrix Brakes

Post by cigvibe »

Rotors should be a snap, like similar year Toyotas.

I did my 03 vibe back in 2013 and matrix in 2016, so it's been a while. It should just be 12/14mm for the caliper and 17mm for the caliper bracket to get the rotors off. It is fairly simple. You would just need a pad spreader.



I'll be doing my brake / rotors in a couple of weeks if you want to wait and see the pictures.
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ColonelPanic
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Re: 2007 Toyota Matrix Brakes

Post by ColonelPanic »

Bookworm wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:12 pm There's an engineer at Toyota that needs a kicking.

Front bleeder screw - 8mm.
Rear bleeder screw - 10mm (1cm for those who like to simplify)
Yes, that was a surprise the first time I bled brakes. Since then, I have purchased one brake bleeder wrench that can handle both sizes.
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Bookworm
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Re: 2007 Toyota Matrix Brakes

Post by Bookworm »

cigvibe wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 1:13 am Rotors should be a snap, like similar year Toyotas.

I did my 03 vibe back in 2013 and matrix in 2016, so it's been a while. It should just be 12/14mm for the caliper and 17mm for the caliper bracket to get the rotors off. It is fairly simple. You would just need a pad spreader.

I'll be doing my brake / rotors in a couple of weeks if you want to wait and see the pictures.
Oh, I know how to replace rotors. I've done it a number of times over the years. The problem is that this particular one doesn't have the factory rotors, or even aftermarket like the ones I bought. No threaded holes to break them loose.

I have a pad spreader tool as well - I had to buy one of the special ones because my wife's Mazda5 requires that you press on the piston AND twist with a double pin 'wrench' pad. Historically, I've always just used c-clamps and a piece of metal.

May work on that tomorrow.
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