EVAP - 09 BASE

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FatherTime
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:24 pm

EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by FatherTime »

Got a check engine light recently. The mechanic pulled the codes and said it was related to the EVAP system. He looked into it and discovered a couple severed wires, and made the repair. Thinking it was repaired, off I went and the check engine light popped back on. He looked at it and decided there must have been a short and he replaced the solenoid. Off I went again, and the check engine light comes on yet again. I haven't talked told him about this yet.

Anyone have any ideas as to what may be causing this? Did a short damage the computer? (this would be very bad). Any ideas appreciated. Other stuff to look at?
2009 Pontiac Vibe 1.8 FWD Manual Trans
zbyers
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Re: EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by zbyers »

what is the specific code?
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FatherTime
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Re: EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by FatherTime »

The code = PO441

Talked to the dealer today. Trying to be optimistic, he said it "could be" the purge valve, (a leak?), but maybe needed a new computer. They're going to run some diagnostics later this month.
2009 Pontiac Vibe 1.8 FWD Manual Trans
FatherTime
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Re: EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by FatherTime »

I wasn't aware that you can purchase a refurbished ECU...and they come preprogrammed according to VIN number, "plug and play", $200 for this car. What's the downside of these? Would save a ton of money. Anyone have experience with these?
2009 Pontiac Vibe 1.8 FWD Manual Trans
zbyers
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Re: EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by zbyers »

it's not the computer and you need a new mechanic if they're telling you that is the issue.

could be the purge valve or the vent valve. both relatively cheap parts last i looked for a first gen, and pretty easy to replace.
'74 Thing, '79 El Camino, '83 VW DoKa '91 Vanagon, '03 Base, 04 GT
'06 CRV, '06 AWD, '07 Base, '12 Highlander Limited, '17 Frontier CCLB

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Caretaker

Re: EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by Caretaker »

Remember Fathertime: dealership service departments don't diagnose problems; they replace parts. The faster their "mechanics" :roll: :lol: can swap out parts (many times unnecessarily), and replace fluids (well before they are due) is how dealerships keep the lights on. Wasting manhours diagnosing the actual problem is not part of their business model. Do yourself a big favor and find a local (real) mechanic who stays in business through decades of earning the community's respect. He or she will diagnose the problem and you'll be less likely to be victimized by blind and simple part swapping.
FatherTime
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Re: EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by FatherTime »

I believe the reason the computer keeps popping up in the possibilities list is because of the severed wires, indicating a possible short. I get what your saying about the dealership. Last place I wanted to find myself going to, especially with a 12 yr. old vehicle. The appt is not till the 27th, I'll consult with another local mechanic and see what they say.
2009 Pontiac Vibe 1.8 FWD Manual Trans
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joatmon
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Re: EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by joatmon »

I wonder how the wires got severed in the first place.

One of my 03's kept throwing P044X codes. Tried a bunch of things, never did get it solved.

Some people here have had very small and hard to identify holes in an evap hose throw related codes. I didn't have the right test equipment to figure out if that was the problem in mine.
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FatherTime
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Re: EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by FatherTime »

The mechanic fixed the wiring from under the hood. That being the case, Mr Mouse must be the culprit having crawled up in the engine to get warm, and then thought the wires looked/smelled like a tasty meal. I can only hope he took a few volts.

Yet another mechanic I talked to today also said he doubted the computer as the issue, but rather a leak or some other component that I have no idea about. I'm going to let the dealership do the testing, they have the proper equipment to isolate the problem. If it comes down to the computer, I'm going to order pre programmed plug n play refurb, and cross my fingers.
2009 Pontiac Vibe 1.8 FWD Manual Trans
Caretaker

Re: EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by Caretaker »

Thanks for the update. Wishing you luck. Yep, that soy based wire covering must smell like unwrapped snickers bars from miles away.
Mumbledore
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Re: EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by Mumbledore »

FatherTime wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:13 pm The code = PO441

Talked to the dealer today. Trying to be optimistic, he said it "could be" the purge valve, (a leak?), but maybe needed a new computer. They're going to run some diagnostics later this month.
I have 5 EVAP related codes on my 09 base. PO43E, PO43F, P2401, P2402, P2419. All related to the charcoal canister assembly, which has the evap vacuum pump, purge valve,solenoid, etc. attached to it. If you want to really knock everything out, just buy the one from ROCK AUTO that has all the goodies attached and have them install. Hope this helps.
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Caretaker

Re: EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by Caretaker »

for us dummies, please elaborate...........buy one what?
jolt
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Re: EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by jolt »

FatherTime
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Re: EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by FatherTime »

The dealership confirmed what my regular mechanic said...it's the ECM. (a short caused by the chewed/severed wires). I ordered one of those pre-programmed refurbed ECM's on-line for $200 and change, and the dealer said they'd install it (1 hr labor - but free shuttle service). I do hope this works out - no way I want to pay for a new ECM + programming. Their price for programming is crazy, which I don't understand. How can someone afford to sell you one for $200 plug and play, but the dealer needs your first born child to do the same programming?? Whatever.

The culprit: It snowed last night and he left his tracks right alongside the car. Chippy the chipmunk. He's been around for about a year or more and probably took up residence in my garage. He runs back and forth every day to my neighbors front yard to partake of the critter feeder they have year round. Although I knew about him long ago, I never suspected him because I didn't realize chipmunks were wire munchers. Turns out they are very destructive. Unfortunately, he will have to meet his maker.
2009 Pontiac Vibe 1.8 FWD Manual Trans
jolt
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Re: EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by jolt »

Chipmunks and red squirrels are very destructive. If one is in your garage, you need to look for damage to the garage also. Block and repair any holes with sheet metal. If a hole is big enough to put your thumb in it, it is big enough for a chipmunk to get in. A hole the size of your finger will let a mouse in. They also like chewing on gas and vent hoses, like the ones found that hook up to the evap assembly under your car. I hope you had these hoses tested or you may have more issues.

What my dad used on them was traps for rats. You can find them in the hardware stores. They look like big mouse traps. You do need to modify them by adding a chain to the trap and staking the chain down. If you do not do this, the varmint can run off with the trap and you will not find it until it starts to stink up you garage.

Good luck and happy holidays!
FatherTime
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Re: EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by FatherTime »

I got a Tomcat Rat Snap Trap. He won't carry that off. Baited with a buffet of corn kernels, raisons and peanut butter. :evil: Also ordered a rodent cage trap. We'll see.
2009 Pontiac Vibe 1.8 FWD Manual Trans
Glenpointe
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Re: EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by Glenpointe »

I have the same issue with my 2009 Vibe. First, I replaced the gas cap, but the code came back so I decided to buy the vacuum leak smoke tester online. After ran the tester few minutes, I noticed smoke coming out from a hard plastic evap hose that goes from the top of the gas tank to the evap canister. Instead of buying a new hose, I used plastic JB weld to plug up the crack. Check engine Light never pops up again.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/283210079548?h ... SwT8lhe7jB
FatherTime
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Re: EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by FatherTime »

The dealer has already gone through everything and found nothing. The remaining theory is a problem with the computer. I ordered one on-line, they installed it. Turned out they sent me the wrong ECM. I have reordered a new one, but was hoping to not have to install it because this is getting insanely expensive. Since they reinstalled my old one, and the check eng light is NOT coming on, I'm trying to see if I can get through an inspection somehow, and send the thing back for a refund. This stuff is expensive with install and programming. This post actually relates to my last post about the chewed wires that started the problem.
2009 Pontiac Vibe 1.8 FWD Manual Trans
FatherTime
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Re: EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by FatherTime »

Unbelievable. The refurb "plug n play" ECM they sent me was the wrong part. Of course the dealer installed it and it was useless. They tried to reprogram it twice. Of course that didn't work either. :roll:

Because the check engine light was off with only 1 monitor active (legal), I decided to see if I could slip it through inspection because it was now overdue. No problem. They slapped a new inspection sticker on it and off I went. I just pulled out of the garage into the parking lot and the check engine light popped on. LOL!

I ordered a new ECM (AC Delco) and they installed it, and programmed the thing. Done in under one hour. Because I had got it inspected, I could have ignored it and just put up with the check engine light on til the next inspection, but went ahead and had it installed anyway.

All said and done, they say the computer was absolutely the problem, and I had them recheck the purge valve before installing it. So we'll see. Hopefully this is the end of this story.
2009 Pontiac Vibe 1.8 FWD Manual Trans
tpollauf
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Re: EVAP - 09 BASE

Post by tpollauf »

What a nightmare ... hope it's over for good! I can relate to this story BUT in the HVAC industry. Too many times when troubleshooting a furnace, AC, heat pump, etc. you always try the obvious and the least expensive route. ONLY when all else failed and the LAST thing to condemn ... is the circuit board. I only got burned once in 20+ years changing them out. You kind of "hold your breath" to make sure the system is actually working properly once you change the brains behind the entire system. Great work ... now enjoy the Vibe ;)
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