Automatic transmission really rough shifting, Is this the end of the road?

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ihatefastcars
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:13 pm

Automatic transmission really rough shifting, Is this the end of the road?

Post by ihatefastcars »

Hello all, 2004 base model automatic transmission Vibe owner here. I've had my Vibe since 2014, bought it at around 130K, currently has a little over 222K. I've always been religious about maintenance issues and have never experienced any significant issues with my car. I love my Vibe!

About 2 or 3 months ago, I started noticing that the automatic transmission seemed to lag just a little bit, especially when climbing hills. It was not very noticable, and I think I was only aware of it because I've had the car for so long and it just didn't feel like what I was accustomed to. The mechanic I have gone to since buying the car changed management for the worst, otherwise I would have taken it in right away. I looked around until I found what seemed like another decent mechanic, and took it in there on the 4th of this month.

I described the issue to the new-to-me mechanic, and asked them to do a transmission fluid change. They made me wait until closing to get it ready, and when I came to pick up the car they told me they hadn't done the transmission fluid change because it "didn't look dirty enough to need it." This mechanic also insisted that I shouldn't prioritize this sort of preventative maintenance, because the car was nearing the end of its lifespan.

Fast forward to yesterday, when I took a day trip to the sierra foothills. Climbing the grade, I started noticing really rough shifting, especially around 45 to 55 mph mark. Once we got to our destination, I noticed incredibly rough shifting going into first and reverse as well. I felt like I was driving a tractor - an old tractor (which I've done, so I know!). Getting back home was a little better, because it was downhill and I could put it in neutral for a lot of the time, but in drive there was still a lot of shaking at anything other than around 75 mph.
ETA: It was also after we had made it up the grade to our destination, parked and turned the car off, then turned it on again that the check engine light came on, sometimes solid, sometimes flashing, but still there.
There was also a burning smell that we noticed 😩


Is my Vibe toast? Should I have insisted on the transmission fluid change? Is this a PCM issue (although I'm not within the recall years window)?

Thanks to all who weigh in!

ETA: If anyone knows of exceptionally trustworthy mechanics in the San Francisco Bay area - or even more inland towards the Central Valley - please let me know! Oceanworks and Arts, both in Berkeley, are the two that I've had disappointing encounters with recently.
Caretaker

Re: Automatic transmission really rough shifting, Is this the end of the road?

Post by Caretaker »

Oceanworks II is a repairpal.com facility. I'd recommend typing in your zip code to repairpal.com and finding another certified mechanic. Pat Goss once had a recommended list of mechanics, but I don't see it on their page now. Certainly asking your neighbors on nextdoor.com is always a great way to find merchants you can trust. Nevertheless, a flashing check engine light is normally indicative of a critical event and if you try to drive while it is flashing, normally the critical event becomes terminal. The burnt fluid smell is another bad indication. I was going to ask if you know what type of fluid was put in the last time the transmission fluid was exchanged. Any mechanic with a brain would have started with that question, rather than, "well it looks cherry red so that can't be the problem." If it wasn't a Toyota Type-IV fluid or the equivalent, it could have been the culprit.
jolt
Posts: 945
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:07 am
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota

Re: Automatic transmission really rough shifting, Is this the end of the road?

Post by jolt »

What Caretaker is referring to is that a good mechanic will know that this car is really a Toyota. If the mechanic thinks it is a GM product, they may put the wrong type of automatic transmission fluid in, and that would not be good for the transmission. In 2009 the transmission fluid changed to WS Type fluid from the older Type -IV that was used in Vibes from 2003 to 2008. Pull the transmission dip stick and smell the fluid. If it smells burnt, it is most likely that the transmission is gone. Also look on the dip stick and it will tell you what type of fluid the transmission uses. My 2009 with the 2.4L engine and 5 speed automatic has Type WS right on the dip stick. I would have suggested to not only change the fluid but the transmission filter as well. It may be to late for that now.
Find a good transmission shop to look at it and give a price on the repairs. It is most likely not going to cheap and you will have to decide if the car is worth the cost of the repair.
ihatefastcars
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:13 pm

Re: Automatic transmission really rough shifting, Is this the end of the road?

Post by ihatefastcars »

Thank you Caretaker and Jolt. Oceanworks used to be a great mechanic, but yes - on more than one occasion, I have had to explain to the new management that my car is a Toyota, after they told me I needed to call a different shop to service a Pontiac Vibe (when I'd been going there for years :? :| )
I am learning about this specific transmission fluid recommendation only now, a bit too late it seems.
ihatefastcars
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:13 pm

Re: Automatic transmission really rough shifting, Is this the end of the road?

Post by ihatefastcars »

So I called Oceanworks, and they confirmed that the last transmission fluid service was done about 13K miles ago. He said that Versa transmission fluid was what was likely used. Is that fluid type / application enough to cause damage?
When I described what happened on Saturday, he said he suspects spark plugs and or ignition coil might need replacing and that it might not be a transmission issue at all, but a misfire. I'm still a little hesitant to go back to Oceanworks, however I've just learned that one of the trusted managers is back there again. Also, I much more agree with the approach that I heard on the phone from Oceanworks just now: namely, that the cost-benefit analysis of a <$1000 fix would be a yes from me to keep the Vibe going. I did not like the approach I encountered at Art's, where I was told to start letting preventative maintenance go, even though I know some people appreciate being told to not spend money on their cars. For me, the cost difference between buying a new-ish car vs the cost to keep - as well as the attachment I have with - my current car is great enough that my CBA is keep the Vibe if it can be done <$1k
Do you think it's worth it to chase these diagnostics down the rabbit hole?
jolt
Posts: 945
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:07 am
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota

Re: Automatic transmission really rough shifting, Is this the end of the road?

Post by jolt »

If the fluid is still red in color and does not smell burnt, then it is worth having it checked out. Like they told you, the transmission will act and shift funny if the engine is low on power because it is missing. You need to start by pulling the trouble codes from the Vibes computer. The codes will start with a P or a C, and a series of four numbers like P-xxxx. These need to be checked. The codes will give general areas that the data is not with range. Cheaper code readers will only read generic P codes. You would need to spend around $150 for a cheaper reader that can read the C codes. Best to have shop read codes and do some general troubleshooting, then they can give you an estimate for repairs. Up to that point it is just guessing.
Caretaker

Re: Automatic transmission really rough shifting, Is this the end of the road?

Post by Caretaker »

well it scares the crap out of me that a shop can't pull its records/ticket to determine what fluid was used on a repair. Bad sign. VERSA fluid??? While I hesitate to do any research after 2 glasses of wine, I'm pretty confident that whatever Nissan puts in its transmissions is NOT compatible with Toyota Type IV fluid. Each manufacturer (at least claims) that they have special conditioners appropriate for their vehicles. While most of that is a crock, if that mechanic did not put in Toyota Type IV or an equivalent Amsoil/ect. fluid, I might just try to completely evacuate and exchange (ie: through a BG machine) the fluid in your Vibe and put in the appropriate T IV fluid. Since you reported you smelled a burning sensation, I'm guessing it is too late. I'm very sorry that happened to you. I took my Vibe to a Toyota dealer and negotiated a price for new WS fluid on my '09 since GM was so clueless on how to take care of their own vehicles. I wish you only the best. Advice: never buy another GM product. Their engineers are top notch and know how to build world class vehicles. The question always remains however: WILL THEY????
ihatefastcars
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:13 pm

Re: Automatic transmission really rough shifting, Is this the end of the road?

Post by ihatefastcars »

Thank you again, both of you. I went out to check the dipstick and while not "cherry red," it is red-ish, like a claret maybe (or maybe Caretaker's mention of the two glasses of wine has got my mind on that now! :lol: ). It didn't smell burnt, per se; it smelled kind of like a cross between sneakers and hot asphalt.
And yes, it definitely says right on there to use Toyota T-IV fluid. I will for sure be insisting that any shop it goes to in the future will adhere to this should the Vibe survive. I will keep you all updated, and welcome any additional suggestions and ideas!
CraftsmanQuad19
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:34 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: Automatic transmission really rough shifting, Is this the end of the road?

Post by CraftsmanQuad19 »

To me it sounds like a misfire as well. Typically that’s what the flashing check engine light is for. Specifically, a flashing check engine light is when there’s a current circumstance that WILL damage the catalytic converter if that circumstance continues. Solid check engine light means there’s something previous that was causing excessive emissions at some point for a long enough time to trip a code.

When was the last time you changed the plugs and air filter? I’d start with a transmission flush using proper fluid (as mentioned above), and read the codes. A 20 dollar scan tool from harbor freight or Walmart is enough to read and clear check engine codes, google can tell you exactly what each code means

I suspect a P0300 (random misfire), P0301(cylinder 1 misfire), P0302 (cyl 2), P0303 (cyl 3), or P0304 (cyl 4), as well as a P0420 (catalyst below efficiency threshold-basically means your catalytic converter is toast) since you drove it with a flashing check engine light for an (assumed) extended period of time.

If there are misfire codes, start with plugs. OEM denso plugs are best. If there’s a cat code, either cut it off or get it replaced (depending on where you live). If you cut it off, add an o2 defouler to the downstream (post cat) o2 sensor. That will trick it into thinking the cat is working perfectly fine and won’t trip the check engine light

Home something in this long, rambling, mumbo-jumbo post helps lol
“I don’t do nothing well.” -Keith
Caretaker

Re: Automatic transmission really rough shifting, Is this the end of the road?

Post by Caretaker »

ihatefastcars wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:40 pm Thank you again, both of you. I went out to check the dipstick and while not "cherry red," it is red-ish, like a claret maybe (or maybe Caretaker's mention of the two glasses of wine has got my mind on that now! :lol: ). It didn't smell burnt, per se; it smelled kind of like a cross between sneakers and hot asphalt.
And yes, it definitely says right on there to use Toyota T-IV fluid. I will for sure be insisting that any shop it goes to in the future will adhere to this should the Vibe survive. I will keep you all updated, and welcome any additional suggestions and ideas!
Yes, the smell of clean fluid can best be described as the smell of old wet athletic shoes. You can best see dirt accumulating in the fluid by wiping the dip stick on a white paper towel. As the fluid ages, it begins to grey.
ihatefastcars
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:13 pm

Re: Automatic transmission really rough shifting, Is this the end of the road?

Post by ihatefastcars »

Thank you all for lending your advice! Just picked up the Vibe, and after a replacement of the spark plugs and ignition coil, the Vibe rides another day! :D
They recommended I drive it 100 mi, on the freeway if possible, and see if a check engine light comes on again - which would likely indicate damage to the cat, they say. Holding off on the transmission fluid change (and not planning to do a flush when I change it next - taking the gradual change route) until the results of that are in. I have to get the Vibe smogged to get it registered before June this year, so if there are no problems after this 100 mi run, I'm going to hope that the cat is all clear. They said I could bring it in to check the cat on the monitor before I go in for the smog test but I figure it's not worth paying the extra (they quoted me $165) if I haven't seen any check engine lights.

Thank you CraftsmanQuad for the details regarding the misfire. I will check up on the air filter, but I seem to remember it's been within the last couple years. I will keep reporting back, especially after the 100 mile test run. Feeling hopeful!
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