Damp seating surfaces

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sclay115
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:47 am

Damp seating surfaces

Post by sclay115 »

Water leaks, am I right?! Hate 'em.

I live in the PNW, so it rains, you know, enough. And for some reason or another, I've got some moisture in my 03 Vibe. Yea, it's got a sunroof, and yea, I've cleaned all four drains and checked for pinched rear lines. I've even checked them for flow manually, but, here we are, I still seem to have "damp" seating surfaces.

Notice, I don't say wet, as they aren't really wet. My highly controlled experiment of taking a dry blue shop towel and pressing it FIRMLY into the passenger front seat bottom yields no visible moisture. But sit out there for 10 minutes swapping out instrumental panel bulbs, and you'll notice your behind feel a bit, damp.

Floors are dry, and only once did I have a little water on the drivers rear floor mat (rubber all weather mats) after a particularly strong rain fall. The rear trunk mat (carpet) maybe feels a little damp, but it's hard to say since everything is wet this time of year. Headliner is the same, maybe damp, but hard to tell.

I've got two of those damp rid type devices in the car, and they are certainly pulling moisture out of the air.

I know all about how sunroofs don't really seal, and I'm this close to yanking down the entire headliner and having my Wife hose the car down while I wait in my ghillie suit and catch the damn water in the act.

But, maybe someone can talk me off the ledge. I'm wondering now about door seals, or water maybe backing up in the sunroof drain not because of blockage, but because the rain has been particular intense recently. The water on the driver's rear mat makes me suspect the door seals, as I could see a straight shot down from there onto the floor.

Thoughts? Tips? Places to look?
jolt
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Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:07 am
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota

Re: Damp seating surfaces

Post by jolt »

Could it be that your roof drip side finish moldings have a problem? The body may be rusted through under the moldings and this would allow water to leak in the roof.

Has the windshield ever been replaced? Could it leaking around or rusted around the windshield or other windows that would allow water to leak in?
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joatmon
Posts: 10018
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:19 am
Location: SMC MD

Re: Damp seating surfaces

Post by joatmon »

Does your driving pattern have the car running enough to dry the interior? Only occasional short drives might not be enough to flush out water that gets tracked in, and from breathing. Its odd that all the carpeted surfaces feel wet without consistent visible water. Do you run with recirc turned on? (fresh is better for drying) Maybe take a long drive with the heat blasting and a few windows cracked open, if you can find a day up there in the upper left corner when it isn't raining.
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sclay115
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:47 am

Re: Damp seating surfaces

Post by sclay115 »

Okay guys, did some work on this and I have a report. Turns out, the passenger floorboard was wet. I wouldn't call it soaked, but the jute under the carpet was wet enough for me to not want to save it. The moisture doesn't good past the floor rail (where the amp and seat bolts to), and there was no pooling of any kind.

Key points:

This is the winter, so no AC (and no, when I run the defog the AC does not run, I disabled this), but the drain line is clear regardless.
The front and rear moonroof drains, both sides, are free and clear, and have been tested for drainage with water.
No other portions of the floor are wet.
After closer examination it's really only the passenger front seat that is damp.

So I have a few questions:

Has anyone ever experienced any other type of water leak? I'm really examining the moonroof assembly itself, and I'm wondering if during some of the heavier rainfalls, the drains are not able to keep up and the water is backing up into an area that isn't sealed? There are quite a few pieces that go into the frame assembly, and if all of that water doesn't make it down the drains, and it backs up even just a bit, there are quite a few places where it would just drain right into the cabin. Or is there anywhere else I should be looking? Door seals look good, and with the headliner out, all of the sealing around the windshield looks good, so all signs point to the blasted moonroof. And I swear to all the automotive Gods, if I can't figure this out, I'm sealing the damn moonroof up with flowable silicone.

Anyways, any help would be appreciated.
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joatmon
Posts: 10018
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:19 am
Location: SMC MD

Re: Damp seating surfaces

Post by joatmon »

How about the area between the windshield and the hood? On a relative's non-Vibe, water was leaking inside because of tree litter plugging the drain holes for the fresh air intake area.

I assume you would have noticed if any of the rubber plugs were missing in the floor pan allowing road spray in, so I won't even mention it.

Might be time to sit inside while someone hoses the outside.
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sclay115
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:47 am

Re: Damp seating surfaces

Post by sclay115 »

Alright guys, hopefully this helps someone out.

Sometimes, I've found, you can get very caught up heading down a path that you are sure to be true and overlook some simple things.

Turns out, after removing the headliner (and all of the interior pieces needed to do so), and hosing down the car while I sat inside, I found what I hope to be the issue. It was obvious, I should have noticed it sooner.

While watching for the leak, I noticed a very large amount of water draining from between the gasket and the glass (note, not the body and the glass), into an area of the drain pan that would typically be okay I'm sure, but it then gets stuck behind the glass and gasket and begins to leak in other locations along the perimeter of the seam between the gasket and the glass. From this location, it is draining onto the wind deflector, which is still in the pan, but I'm thinking there is something here with how it is traveling behind the gasket to other locations that is causing it to leave the pan and enter the interior.

So, how did it get there?
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From that gap in the seal, it's a straight shot into the cabin. If you're sitting inside, you can see daylight. It's obvious, I can't believe I didn't notice it sooner since its the exact same issue I had on a Volvo a ways back.

So how do we fix it?
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Bloop.

It ain't pretty, but it seems like it's done the job. I left the interior out for a week or so and everything is looking good. The passenger seat is still damp, but I think that's just going to take some time. But there is less moisture in the cabin (and on the inside of the windows), the floor is dry, and I've checked the roof after several rainy days and everything seems to be doing it's job.

So, if you've got some wet floors, or higher than normal condensation in the cabin, remember, just because everyone tells you it's the sunroof drains, doesn't mean it isn't the drains, but be sure to look elsewhere.

Carry on!
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joatmon
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Location: SMC MD

Re: Damp seating surfaces

Post by joatmon »

sclay115 wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:14 pm

So, if you've got some wet floors, or higher than normal condensation in the cabin, remember, just because everyone tells you it's the sunroof drains, doesn't mean it isn't the drains, but be sure to look elsewhere.
Did you check the sunroof drains?

Sorry, had to ;)


I wouldn't have expected the gasket itself to be the issue, but its great you found and fixed it. Hope you have a dry new year!
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coppens1
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Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:14 am

Re: Damp seating surfaces

Post by coppens1 »

Passenger Headliner Leak

Dear Vibe Owners, I still have a Headliner Leak on the passenger side of my 05 Vibe, from the joint where the headliner meets the plastic covering the roof column..

The problem was previously diagnosed as a leaking windshield. I was going to have my windshield replaced, but Safelight won't replace it because of some corrosion at the top of the windshield. I bought Fix Tape Rubberized Waterproof Tape, for Boat Repair (Clear, 4 inches x 5 feet), and put it all the way across the top of the windshield. The leak continued.

It appears the leak is from the luggage rack, and seems to be coming from the driver side luggage rack. When I covered the passenger side luggage rack and tested it in the rain, the leak persisted. So it has to be coming from the driver side luggage rack.

Has anyone else had the leak problem? How did you fix it?
mr2race
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Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:37 pm

Re: Damp seating surfaces

Post by mr2race »

OK I am on my second vibe with the same problem. I am very confident it is not a windshield leak. And have actually stopped the rainwater from coming in using duct tape on the roof joint where it reaches the body side sheet-metal right above your drivers side above your head.

The first car is an 03GT . I actually removed the plastic trim at that joint. Clean the area with solvent and filled it with black silicone. Which slowed the leg down, but did not stop it. But like I said duck tape does stop the water from coming in until it deteriorates every 2 to 3 months.
This particular car is now extremely rusty and seems to have lost the timing chain. So it’s getting scrapped.

My second car is an 04 GT I purchase to replace the 03.
And of course it also leaks in exactly the same spot. And I covered it with duct tape. And the leak has completely stopped.

My plan is to cut this area apart.
Dissecting this roof section attempting to figure out how and why this area appears to be leaking. I will document and photograph later today
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