GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

Hey all,

So Ive started to notice a grind/ crunching noise when braking lightly at low speeds. The moment I got home I checked the pads (and of course). The front left pad is starting to show signs of wear. Although Id be happy to change them out myself my mother was adamant that I got them checked out at a garage just to see what the deal is. The strange thing is, he focused way more on the fact that there were small cracks in the pads, and told me that my calipers are rusted out and id need new ones and that he wouldn't recommend me driving anymore until i get new calipers. Said the cost would be $500+.

Now, my calipers aren't brand new, by any means, but they arent in pieces and just seem a bit lumpy to me (No actual metal has been eaten away at). I did NOT want to pay out $500 since I just spent about $300 getting some sheared bolts out of my engine bay.

So, what can happen when your calipers are too rusted? Are there any tell tale signs that can allude to desperately needing new calipers? And are cracked but not worn brake pads still in need of replacement? Do they affect the entire braking system?

Thanks for any light you guys can shed on the subject for me!

Having just done rotors and pads on my '05 AWD last Sunday, I'm not sure what "rusted calipers" is supposed to mean. Calipers can seize- the piston or the slide pins can stop moving. You would feel a difference in heat coming off the rotors after a short trip if that was the case. Other than that, they are thick, heavy, and durable. You should be able to remove the caliper (two 14mm bolts @ 25 ft. lbs.) and take a wire brush to it and clean the inner surfaces (be careful not to tear the rubber piston boot). You don't need to remove the brake line, but make sure the caliper is supported (I use a spare jack stand) so the line isn't stressed/kinked.

You're in Florida, so you can expect the surface of the caliper to be rusty. Maybe there is so much rust on the caliper (and the rotor edge?) that there is contact when you use the brake. You mentioned that it happens when you brake low speed and "lightly"- does it happen at highway speeds? Do you feel any pulsation in the brake pedal or vibration in the steering wheel when you hear the noise?

How much is left on the pads? How old are the rotors? Might be worth changing them and greasing the slide pins with good quality lube (see last link below- couldn't find it online at AutoZone)

If you have the tools, new rotors and pads would be less than $175 if you do it yourself:
http://www.autozone.com/brakes-and-trac ... _172993_0/
http://www.autozone.com/brakes-and-trac ... 848_16108/
http://www.autozone.com/brakes-and-trac ... _0_161678/
http://www.autozone.com/brake-and-power ... 15541_0_0/
http://permatex.com/products-2/product- ... ant-detail

So how well do you know this mechanic? Sounds like he is reaching deep into your pockets. Unless the calipers are rusting in a way so they will not move along the slide pins or the piston won't move, then rusty calipers on the surface have no bearing on how the brakes operate. They are like ehoff said, heavy pieces of metal to dissipate heat, with pistons held in place by the rubber gasket sealing the opening between them.

I don't think cracks on the pads are necessarily bad unless they are all the way through the pad material, but they are probably a result of overheated cheap brakes. I would probably go ahead and replace the pads, maybe replace or resurface the rotors, and certainly grease all of the slide pins like ehoff said. My 03 GT still has the original calipers on it and no issues after 215K miles.

Good luck!

Thanks for your replies guys.

I do feel a slight pulsation when I brake, but only when Im braking rather harshly. Which, for now, I haven't been doing since my pads have been grinding. Ive ordered pads that are coming in friday and hopefully this should fix the issue. If I still have an issue ill resurface the rotors, and get ready to sell her. Thinking about upgrading to the GT variant, 1st generation. I love how the front bumper looks, and hey, who doesn't like another 60hp at their disposal?

Nucleotide wrote:If I still have an issue ill resurface the rotors, and get ready to sell her

The pulsation could be due to rust/dirt between the hub and rotor or the rotor and wheel. Other potential causes are warped rotors and pad residue from a complete hard stop.

The rotors are probably seized to the hub. Unless you have an on hub lathe, it would probably be about the same cost to get new rotors (that aren't rusted and have full thickness).

So as an update, the car is now running normally.

The pads I had ordered came in today, and naturally, As I went to install them, another problem closely ensued. The previous mechanic I went to (first mentioned in this post) had tightened the lug nuts WAAY too tight- and I had a stud on both my front wheels snap. GREAT!

So, I went to another mechanic, who charged me $80 for new replacement studs and lug nuts. Not the money that I wanted to spend, but whatever, I guess thats the thing with owning a car with 192k+ miles on it. Replaced the pads myself, and now she is braking like a champ and I no longer feel like my car is about to fall apart. However, the rotors will need resurfacing. Or new rotors, whichever is the safer/ most reliable option.

So in the past two weeks my saving for a new car have gone down the drain to keep this ol thing running, lol.
But now that she's running well and I (hopefully) won't have anymore issues with her in the future, I feel slightly proud that she's kept on her feet this long!

Thanks for all your advice guys.

You shouldn't put new pads on old worn rotors. One of two things will happen, either the braking will be reduced due to worn rotor or the pads will wear out quickly, or both.

Nucleotide wrote:The previous mechanic I went to (first mentioned in this post) had tightened the lug nuts WAAY too tight- and I had a stud on both my front wheels snap. GREAT!

Over-torquing the lug nuts should have produced a vibration in the steering wheel without braking. Unfortunately, the spec is only 76 ft. lbs. and some techs will apply the impact wrench for waaaaay too long.

I always end up re-torquing the lugs after any wheel removal.

When you get new rotors, put some 100 or 80 grit sandpaper on a flat surface and sand the brake pads down flat again or your pulsation troubles will just come back. If your rotors are still thick enough to turn and aren't cheapos, then you can turn them. Ask the person doing them to put a crosshatch pattern on them with a bit of sandpaper to help bed the pads in. New rotors often come with this pattern, as well as anti-corrosion coating that burns off (it's a coating that's sticky and only meant to preserve them through storage and shipping).

He may have meant that the caliper piston or bore has rusted. Most pistons are made of bare uncoated steel. Over time brake fluid will absorb a large amount of moisture. If your brake fluid isn't changed every two years the pistons and bores will start to rust out. When they rust, the piston wont move freely and reduce braking performance. They may still function for now but it is important for you to keep your brakes in good shape. For the sake of you and everyone else on the road.