GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

Just as the topic states. The first time I had trans service I did a flush. After that I have performed drain & refills. With my mileage at 180 its time for service once again. Should I drop the pan, clean out the screen etc ? or just continue with another drain & refill ? Right now the fluid looks great no burnt smell & still has a pink/reddish color to it. When I check the oil I always wipe the dipstick on a clean white paper towel to check the color & it looks great. Thoughts ?

Depends on how ambitious you are feeling. Wouldn't hurt to do a pan drop but unless you suspect there's a problem it seems like excessive work.

Unrelated question:
Approximately how much fluid comes out when you do a drain/fill?

Not very ambitious at all but if its necessary I will do it. Im fine with less work. As to your question I believe its 3.3 quarts, but that doesnt include the converter.

Thanks, I'm doing a drain/fill for a relative and I HATE trying to read an auto trans dipstick.
That will help me ballpark it without having to measure what comes out.

sideshowalan wrote:Thanks, I'm doing a drain/fill for a relative and I HATE trying to read an auto trans dipstick.
That will help me ballpark it without having to measure what comes out.

Hey, at least it's dark red and you can see it! Know to check while it's warm, running, and after shifting into each gear for 3 seconds?

sideshowalan wrote:Thanks, I'm doing a drain/fill for a relative and I HATE trying to read an auto trans dipstick.
That will help me ballpark it without having to measure what comes out.

Adding an interesting comment to this. Al least you HAVE a dip stick to look at and measure fluid levels! The wife's G8 Gt does not have one at all! Must be GM's Holden division in Austrailaia who think you never need to check the auto trans fluid. Not worrying about it for a long time as she only has 28k miles on it. Just interesting though.

tpollauf wrote: Adding an interesting comment to this. Al least you HAVE a dip stick to look at and measure fluid levels! The wife's G8 Gt does not have one at all! Must be GM's Holden division in Austrailaia who think you never need to check the auto trans fluid. Not worrying about it for a long time as she only has 28k miles on it. Just interesting though.

No kidding! It's hard to find a GM car (and a growing list of others) with a dipstick anymore - if your car has one, consider yourself fortunate. Sadly we now live in a world where the accountants apparently decided that the transmission is a sealed, disposable, non-serviceable unit. And complicated fluid checking procedures ensure a good revenue stream for their service departments.

Not having the dipstick isn't too bad until the car develops a chronic leak like my Sonic has had since new. Nothing like a new-ish car leaving spots on the driveway like a 300,000 mile beater and no way to check the fluid. It must have been quite low on fluid the last time as it shifts much smoother now after getting some new fluid during it's recent axle seal replacement (second one they've replaced!)

Without the dipstick, on my car the level checking procedure from what I understand is something like this: Put the car up on a lift perfectly level, get the ATF up to a specific temp (scan tool required to read that data) and pop a plug off the side of the transmission. Add fluid via top fill port until it drips from the side. I'd take a tricky to read dipstick over this BS any day.

I change my synthetic engine oil every 10,000 miles, with an additional filter change in between at 5,000 mi. While on the lift I also pull the trans plug and drain it. Takes 3 qts to refill. Cheap insurance. I've always heard that Toyota automatics like fresh fluid.

Charles

Easy enough and definitely cheap insurance. Less work than the oil change itself, really. I used to do that on my Hyundai.since that transmission did not have a great track record.

I will be changing the fluid on the Vibe at the next oil change, sadly that is one area I have neglected. It has 102k on the original fluid. Probably do several drain & fills at oil changes for a bit...

The transmissions on BMWs are "sealed" as well...except they can still leak and you have to fill/check the level from below. It's horrible. Like...just really horrible. They have to be level and running and we only had jackstands and no real lift and and and...

My stepdaughter Caliber ( AWEFULL CAR ) has a sealed dipstick as well What the heck are you supposed to do when it leaks ????

Well, im guessing a drain & refill is ok for 180K....no one else has said NOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!! drop the pan

cptnsolo77 wrote: What the heck are you supposed to do when it leaks ????

DUUUUH, it never leaks! Silly!

I mean, I had a customer's BMW with such low trans fluid that I almost couldn't get it up a tiny incline into the other side of the lot, but obvs it never leaks out.

Also, another BMW had two transmission lines vibrate together until one leaked everywhere.

PS: $34/qt for BMW trans fluid. Also on the jack stands I had to have my face inches from the catalytic converters.

Another question When I have done my drain & refills in the past, I drained & refilled 3 times to get all the fluid out of the converter. Now im thinking...wouldnt 2 to be enough ? In the exchange good fluid IS getting thrown out & seems like a bit of a waste. Yeah, I know $25 versus a new trans, but im just not the one to waste mula if I dont have to

Thoughts ???

I'm planning on a drain/refill pretty soon on Frosty, and I have a question: Do I need to replace the drain plug washer? And is it the same size as the engine oil drain plug? I have a bunch of those on hand, so that would be pretty convenient.

^^ Looking forward to that answer myself. Not sure what it has or what size. Given that the drain plug is the same 14mm head as the oil plug, maybe it's the same.

I had the Toyota dealer look one up for me and gave me what they thought was the correct one but it's way too large. I abandoned the job, fearing I was going to end up in a situation like my old car... The one time I chose *not* to replace the washer as "it looked good to me," the thing was leaving spots in my driveway so I had to do it all over again. Once again my Sonic is marking its territory on the driveway, so having one car doing that is plenty.

ColonelPanic wrote:Given that the drain plug is the same 14mm head as the oil plug, maybe it's the same.

From what I've been able to find they're the same size bolt (same thread size) as well, so if the trans bolt uses a washer they should be the same. It would be a good thing to know before all the fluid is drained out, though.

Washer ??? What washer ??? I didnt know there was supposed to be one No washer on mine and no leaks

I couldn't find any T-IV around here, so I went by the Toyota dealer and picked up a case. He gave me a 10% discount so ~$6.50/qt. I also asked about a transmission drain plug washer and yes, there is one. Part number 90430-A0003.

It's a completely different size than the oil drain washer, and it looks and feels more like a single-use crush washer.

Just a friendly reminder: open the refill plug first, BEFORE draining out the transmission fluid. I've had a few cars where the refill plug was nearly impossible to unscrew for some reason. I was panicking the first time, since I had already drained the fluid.

If worse comes to worst, you could refill by pouring ATF in through the dipstick spout, but that would be messy and take forever.

tad2much wrote:If worse comes to worst, you could refill by pouring ATF in through the dipstick spout, but that would be messy and take forever.

Well, I could be missing something here, but as far as I'm aware the only way to get fluid back into the Vibe auto trans is through the dipstick tube.

Mark wrote: Well, I could be missing something here, but as far as I'm aware the only way to get fluid back into the Vibe auto trans is through the dipstick tube.

Correct.

From my limited experience. If a car has a transmission dipstick tube, that's the only way to fill. No tube means there is another cap or bolt somewhere used to fill.

Mark wrote:I couldn't find any T-IV around here, so I went by the Toyota dealer and picked up a case. He gave me a 10% discount so ~$6.50/qt. I also asked about a transmission drain plug washer and yes, there is one. Part number 90430-A0003.

It's a completely different size than the oil drain washer, and it looks and feels more like a single-use crush washer.

Scratch that, it's definitely the wrong gasket for my 04. The washer on my plug is smaller OD that this one's ID. The dealer is ordering a different part to see if it's the right one, he said he found two different transmissions listed for the 04 Matrix.

Here's the one on my Vibe:

sideshowalan wrote:

Mark wrote: Well, I could be missing something here, but as far as I'm aware the only way to get fluid back into the Vibe auto trans is through the dipstick tube.

Correct.

From my limited experience. If a car has a transmission dipstick tube, that's the only way to fill. No tube means there is another cap or bolt somewhere used to fill.

well, I learned something new. My previous cars have always had separate dipstick and fill holes for transmission fluid. I've had hondas and nissans, so this is my first toyota. Oh, and those were also manual transmissions now that i think about it... Sorry.

Mark wrote:

Mark wrote:I couldn't find any T-IV around here, so I went by the Toyota dealer and picked up a case. He gave me a 10% discount so ~$6.50/qt. I also asked about a transmission drain plug washer and yes, there is one. Part number 90430-A0003.

It's a completely different size than the oil drain washer, and it looks and feels more like a single-use crush washer.

Scratch that, it's definitely the wrong gasket for my 04. The washer on my plug is smaller OD that this one's ID. The dealer is ordering a different part to see if it's the right one, he said he found two different transmissions listed for the 04 Matrix.

Here's the one on my Vibe:

Did you ever figure out what washer is needed? I was quite close to popping the plug this afternoon but figured I'd check again into this washer issue.

Is there anything generic from a parts store that might work for it?

Yes, I think so. I haven't tried it yet but I hope to tomorrow.



It's obviously a one-time use crush washer. Part number below.

Cool! Good luck with it and if it's the right one, I'll be ordering one ASAP.

The part number I posted yesterday is the correct crush washer, at least for the 04 Vibe. I bought two and have another half dozen on order. Today is the second drain/refill on Frosty, and I haven't decided yet if I want to do a third or not. I also plan on doing at least two on Stealth when I get that back.

This is definitely a crush type washer that should probably only be used one time. I reused the one that was on Frosty last time and didn't have any leaks, but I think I'd prefer a new one each time.

Here's a couple pics of the new and old washers together.

Greatly appreciated, Mark!

The old girl will finally get some new fluid soon for the first time.

You're very welcome, good luck.

One thing I don't get: the manual says the automatic 4-speed transmission capacity is 3.2 quarts, but I drained and re-added exactly 3.5 both times. And of course there's the oil still in the pan and TC.

Anyway, does anyone here have strong feelings one way or another concerning how many drain/refills are "good enough"? I've always heard three is the magic number, but at roughly $7/qt it gets pretty expensive quickly. I've done two now, so working on the assumption that you drain about half the fluid out, that means that I'm running roughly 75% new fluid. Based on that logic one more drain/refill would put me at 87.5%, another one after that would put me at 93.75%. This could go on indefinitely obviously, but where do you let the law of diminishing returns take over?

Oil Changers in Ontario, or at least in my city now does drain and fills. Awesome! I had mine done for like 79 bucks or something or other. I'm far to fat to be lying on the ground trying to do this happy horsemuck in my driveway.

Needless to say, my '05 1zz vibe has 241k on the clock and I had a drain and fill done. I have no idea if it was ever done before but the fluid was pretty nasty. *knocks on wood repeatedly* So far, no problems at all.

From working Fast Lube in the past and my limited training from licensed mechanics, It's best to just simply do a drain and fill. Don't drop the pan, don't flush it, just simply do a drain and fill. If you want cleaner fluid, change the fluid again in 3-6 months.

IMHO of course.

Ordered a couple of the crush washers at Toyota today. $4.something each! BUT better than the $12 in shipping charges alone that I saw on some Toyota parts sites. And they might even be in tomorrow morning.

I'm sitting on 8 qts of T-IV so I've got a few drain & fills ahead of me. Probably will reuse the original washer first.