GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

Hey guys, I just recently bought a 2003 vibe gt. I found it on craigslist and after reading up on it I realized I wanted one bad. This one is in.. eh.. ok condition. I know it's going to need some TLC but in the meantime, the clutch needs changed. During the test drive the clutch actually completely went bad to the point we could barely limp the car back to the meeting spot. I talked them down a good deal on the buying price but that still leaves me with a clutch needing changed. I've been reading on here for a couple weeks now (since I first found the car on craigslist pretty much) and trying to refer to here for advice on how to change the clutch out. I love to do my own car work, even though I admit it's a much better idea to take it to a reputable garage but I'm a college student and cheap af and love working with my hands anyway so I figured with the help of a buddy who has done clutch jobs it should be pretty simple... I was wrong.

I first went to NAPA and got a LuK clutch kit. After me and my buddy got everything out of the way and wrestled the tranny out we took what looked like a dead crow (the old clutch) out and took the flywheel to have resurfaced. The machine shop told me they only took 20/1000's of an inch off, honestly i'm really not sure if that's a lot or not. I asked them if they thought I should get any shims for the difference but they said they didn't think it would be necessary.

The next paragraph is where I think we messed up....

Once back on the job we torqued the flywheel back down to 35 lb in a three pass star pattern which is what I read on a forum to tighten them to, (I later read that it actually was supposed to be 35 and another 1/4 turn, I'm not sure how much that other 1/4 turn will make of a difference) and then used the alignment tool to put the clutch and plate in, which was actually weird because instead of labeling which was the flywheel side this one was just labeled "made in south africa", but we compared it to the old one in the way we took it out and that's the way we put it in.. here's hoping that was right... My buddy actually put the throwout bearing in because I was tending to another matter elsewhere in the car. We then wrestled the tranny back in so we could bolt it back to the engine... however once there we were having a problem getting it completely flush against the engine. There was around an inch of a gap between them and we couldn't figure out why we couldn't get it any closer. While he tried to push it flush I was on the other end turning the crank hoping that anything that wasn't lined up would do so and the tranny would then saddle the engine. By this point it was late in the evening and he had to be getting to work and was probably very frustrated. I too was frustrated but it's my car and I'm getting free labor so how frustrated can I really get? Anyway, after he left I called another buddy up, an older guy who has worked on cars and at car shops since prob before I was born. While I was waiting on him I tried to figure out what was keeping it from flushing against the engine when I thought to move the clutch lever. It was sitting more forward (towards the engine) so I moved it back and then went and turned the crank some more (maybe a millimeter or two, barely anything) and then went and tried to move the tranny again and it actually was able to sit up against the engine smooth. I'm not sure if it was the lever or turning the crank that did it but I was glad it was on. My second buddy got there and helped me start running the bolts and putting the mounts back on.
Which by the way remembering which tranny bolts go where can be a pain in the as some are longer than others. I do remember the two 17mm went up top but the rest are 14mm and some are longer than others as I soon recalled when I was trying to tighten the one up in the back by the axle and it bottomed out with the washer freely spinning..

Anyways, after we get the bolts back in and the crossmember and the mounts and all that I go to bolt the slave cylinder back on and the silver inside part is sticking out (I guess we'll call it a piston, not sure what it's actually called) So I started trying to force it back in but there was no budging, or very little anyway but as soon as I took my hand off it would pop back out. Now earlier I didn't mention but when I went to take the driver side axle out I disconnected the brake lines. I didn't want any pressure holding on them as they hung and it seemed easier to bleed the brakes than to take the caliper off and have to deal with mashing that back in. I'm not sure if this was a good idea or not because I later found out that the brakes and the slave are ran off the same reservoir, which I guess means they would hold the same pressure.. but I'm not for sure about that or not. But if they are and I'm gonna have the bleed the brakes anyway I figured screw it and I'll just bleed the slave too. So I took the slave cylinder off and mashed in on the silver piston which shot brake fluid everywhere, but nonetheless, once mashed in to the point of what feels like bottom'd out it still isn't far enough in to be able to bolt up to the transmission and have the push rod be able to sit behind the clutch lever.

So what would this mean? Does anybody have an idea? I mean sure I have my older buddy helping me but even he admits he's never done any work on a vibe. I listed all the things I think I could have done wrong so hopefully if there are others of you who did a clutch job you would be able to tell me where I went wrong. If there is anything I did wrong I would rather take the whole thing back apart and do it again the right way than just force it and have something go wrong in a couple thousand miles. Even if everything is ok but the flywheel actually really needs that other 1/4 turn then that's reason enough for me to take the tranny back off and tighten it again. I don't know if the clutch was put in wrong or the throwout bearing was put in wrong or if it's just a bad slave cylinder (which I'm going to post a pic of so maybe you can eyeball it and tell me if it should be in farther than that or not) but any help would be EXTREMELY appreciated more than you may know. Thanks in advance!


And because of work and school I won't be able to fool with it until sometime late this weekend, but if I do end up figuring it out I'll be sure to post.

Hmmm. Doesn't sound like you've done much wrong. I've done a tranny swap on my 2ZZ four times and a the clutch and flywheel a few times.

I'd honestly take it back apart and have a closer look at everything. First thing is the slave and push rod should not be that difficult to align. Try popping the cap off the master cylinder before pushing the push rod into the slave. Honestly, it sounds like either the clutch is in backwards or the throw out bearing isn't installed correctly.

You have to tighten the flywheel anyways, so you may as well take it apart for further investigation. This time take some pics along the way and then you'll be able to post them if another problem comes up.

Good luck.

Ok I had a couple pics to upload but I keep getting a message telling me "The file is too big, maximum allowed size is 256 KiB."
Does anyone know how to get around this?

You could put them on Photobucket or some such hosting site and post a link. Somebody else may have a simpler solution.

KingTen91 wrote:Ok I had a couple pics to upload but I keep getting a message telling me "The file is too big, maximum allowed size is 256 KiB."
Does anyone know how to get around this?

Open them in Paint and save them as PNG or JPEG/JPG if they are in another format. If they are still too large, you'll need to find the resize tool. I'm running windows 8 so I don't actually know where that tool is in the previous versions. It will show the current dimensions. Select "by percentage" and resize it until it's below 1200x1200 pixels.

PNG usually is a higher quality than JPG, so try and save as PNG if you can.

The above tips should get you below 256 kB.

I looked on my computer and they're showing 1.7 meg.. which seems a little ridiculous for a pic size, I'm going to try and figure a way out to lower the size of them but in the meantime I'll still be checking back on here regularly so still very open to ideas. Thanks!

EricTMah wrote:Try popping the cap off the master cylinder before pushing the push rod into the slave. Honestly, it sounds like either the clutch is in backwards or the throw out bearing isn't installed correctly.

You have to tighten the flywheel anyways, so you may as well take it apart for further investigation. This time take some pics along the way and then you'll be able to post them if another problem comes up.

Good luck.

I took the slave cylinder completely off so the master shouldn't be affecting it anymore, right? Also someone told me this car doesn't actually have a throw out bearing and whatever that ring is that goes in the tranny he was saying is called something else, which for some reason I can't recall what he called it, not a pilot but something else,.. I don't know, either way you're saying you think it might be installed incorrectly, along with possibly the clutch itself.
And are you sure I need to tighten them down that other 1/4 turn? I mean if you say it's necessary that's fine I'll go back and tighten them, I don't want to be driving and the bolts come loose and the flywheel shoot through my transmission,.. but then again how likely is it that will happen with their current torque.. or really, how much less likely will that become by tightening that 1/4 turn? I guess I'm asking does a 1/4 turn make much of a difference in torque?

Iannvouivre, thanks I'll try that!

So I did the paint thing and resaved them as png and they went from 1.7 megs to 7.04.. I guess i'll try jpeg

I had to resize all the way down to 726 x 979 and save it as jpeg just to get it under 256 kb.. specifically 253.7, lol

Anyway here's the slave cylinder, is this as far in as it's supposed to be?

Ok sorry guys, those pics are a lot bigger than expected.. Apparently picture quality and resizing and such is not my strong suit..

Use photobucket. It's the easiest

Also keep in mind 1/4 turn could mean a lot. Think of how much you turn the torque wrench when going from 35lbs to say 50lbs. Not much at all.

Maybe someone else can chime in as well. Thats what my thoughts were just reading your original post.

You know what you're right, I bet that 1/4 turn would put it close to 65, thanks man.

EricTMah wrote:Also keep in mind 1/4 turn could mean a lot. Think of how much you turn the torque wrench when going from 35lbs to say 50lbs. Not much at all.

Maybe someone else can chime in as well. Thats what my thoughts were just reading your original post.

KingTen91 wrote: Ok sorry guys, those pics are a lot bigger than expected.. Apparently picture quality and resizing and such is not my strong suit..

The size and quality look good to me. Large images can be helpful. Eric's right about photobucket in that I don't think you have to resize to put the images on it, but I think they may automatically resize them to fit into some predetermined parameters. I haven't used PB in a long time, I forgot my password and was going to have to make a new account...plus they change the layout often enough that my sporadic visits tend to be to a completely rearranged UI. I've just been using my facebook account and setting the pictures to "public."

I post all my photos using photobucket on all the forums I belong to and have never had an issue. It takes care of it all. Just copy and paste the image link and you're all good

Well I'm doing the job today.. will keep you posted.. hopefully all goes well and I can figure out what the problem is with the slave cylinder..

Good luck! Keep us posted.

I'm surprised no one else had an opinion on this

Ok guys, I had a really elaborate description of how it went the other day... but after I hit post I was informed I had been logged off...
So anyway, I figured out a couple things that may have been what my problem was.
1. As mentioned before when I was trying to put the transmission back in I was having a problem getting it flush with the engine so I moved the clutch lever... DONT DO THIS.. If you move the clutch lever too far back it can knock the throwout bearing (or whatever it's called, whichever bearing it is) off track and you'll have to take the transmission back off to put it back on... unless you know of another way...

2. If you look back at the pic of the slave cylinder the silver piston is barely inside the mouth of the slave,.. It should be much further inside... I'll try to put a pic up of what it's suppose to look like with the boot and rod on and completely flush.

I hope this helps,.. I'm just extremely happy to not have to fool with it anymore and actually be able to drive it.
Thanks to all that helped and provided feedback through all of this!

KingTen91 wrote:I hope this helps,.. I'm just extremely happy to not have to fool with it anymore and actually be able to drive it.
Thanks to all that helped and provided feedback through all of this!

Glad to read that. The other day I got to find out that even small clutches and flywheels are disgustingly heavy.

As you can see, the rod boot is much more flush in this slave than in the one I had

lannvouivre wrote:

KingTen91 wrote:I hope this helps,.. I'm just extremely happy to not have to fool with it anymore and actually be able to drive it.
Thanks to all that helped and provided feedback through all of this!

Glad to read that. The other day I got to find out that even small clutches and flywheels are disgustingly heavy.

Yeah,.. This transmission is ..86 pounds I think Wrestling it in and out was definitely a pain,
as far as the flywheel and clutch itself I'm not sure.. but it is definitely heavier than I might have imagined